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The REAL reason no one does multis


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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss. The green boxes, on the other hand, are super easy to spot and REALLY annoying to look at so you just HAVE to go find the cache so that your map looks pretty.

 

I think the icons for multis should be purple so they stand out better.

 

Discuss.

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a. When traveling I really don't want to take the extra time for a multi, especially if the final sends me backwards.

b. If doing a route for caching multi's tend to screw up the route because the stages and/or final sends me off on a wild goose chase and totally screws the route.

c. Some multi pages don't give a clue if your going to do WP1 and then the final or your going to go off on a six or seven stage multi.

 

If I'm caching around home and really not looking for a good number day I will do multi's because they can be fun. There are two 16 stage multis around here that are on a tree farm. Each one took the better part of a day but were fun and I was glad I did them.

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss. The green boxes, on the other hand, are super easy to spot and REALLY annoying to look at so you just HAVE to go find the cache so that your map looks pretty.

 

I think the icons for multis should be purple so they stand out better.

 

Discuss.

 

I think the real reason is 2, 3, 4, 5+ finds = 1 smilie and if just one of the stages is missing = 0 smilies.

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I think the real reason is 2, 3, 4, 5+ finds = 1 smilie and if just one of the stages is missing = 0 smilies.

 

Pretty close, I think. It's not so much about the smilies for me, but, as you point out, multis are serial and if any of the stages is out the whole thing is a bust.

 

Multis are like those old Christmas tree lights where if one bulb goes out the whole string is dead.

 

There is a second piece that makes me not like multis as much, though it might only be my thing and not an issue for other people: many multi owners (especially in Europe) really love to make you jump through a bunch of hoops in an exactly controlled way to find the cache. The caches end up feeling too scripted for me. I like caching to be an adventure into the unknown: figuring out how to solve a puzzle, how to get to GZ, learning new things at an earthcache, etc. Somehow multis seem more like a guided tour through things that the CO wants you to see. Like I said, probably just me, but it has an impact.

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When traveling, I might stop for a multi if it is short offset at an interesting historical location. But with my noncaching family I cannot go off on a long chase that takes me to unknown destinations - and since the search is the least interesting thing about this game, there has to be something to get me to look for more than one container.

 

My order: virtuals, earthcaches, Wherigo, letterboxes, traditional, puzzle (if there is something that makes me want to solve it), multis. Since I exclude my finds from any search, the color is not a factor. But a deep blue icon might . . .

Edited by geodarts
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I am working on getting 500 multis but one of the main things which frustrate or make me reticent to do a multi is that they have the highest chance of something going wrong if they have not been done in a while (assuming physical waypoints) or the multis which just have really trivial things to get the final coordinates from without any point to it.

 

Now if the color was pink, folks would all over them!

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For me it is not the color at all. It is like everyone else has said. Especially if I am out of town. I have liked the multis I have done but usually don't seek them out. I do notice them on the map but has to be a reason for me to go for one. Not at all saying a different color isn't a good idea though but not the reason I don't go for them.

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My order: virtuals, earthcaches, Wherigo, letterboxes, traditional, puzzle (if there is something that makes me want to solve it), multis.

 

When I travel my order is:

 

1) virtuals - I use them as way points for my route and plug them in to my nuvii. They make for great sightseeing.

2) traditionals - the staple of my trip.

3) earthcaches - I use a few for navigation as long as the questions are easy and sparse.

4) unknowns - only if they are at posted coordinates although I look at the odd one before my trip and if I solve it I may find it.

5) multis - I've found 2 while traveling, one I solve online before my trip the other was at an earthcache I went to and was a 30 meter offset.

6) letterbox, Wherigo - I ignore then and don't include them in my PQs.

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I think the real reason is 2, 3, 4, 5+ finds = 1 smilie and if just one of the stages is missing = 0 smilies.

 

Pretty close, I think. It's not so much about the smilies for me, but, as you point out, multis are serial and if any of the stages is out the whole thing is a bust.

 

Multis are like those old Christmas tree lights where if one bulb goes out the whole string is dead.

You may say the smiley doesn't matter but this sounds a whole like like saying a DNF is a failure.

 

Certainly, multi caches tend to be more difficult because you have to find multiple caches. And also with more caches, there is a greater chance of at least one being missing. But the same is is true whether you find one three stage multi or three traditional caches. In fact if you have a multi placed by a cache owner who is willing to take the time to respond to maintenance requests, there could be an argument made that there is less chance for a stage in the multi to be missing than there is for one in three traditionals to be missing.

 

There is a second piece that makes me not like multis as much, though it might only be my thing and not an issue for other people: many multi owners (especially in Europe) really love to make you jump through a bunch of hoops in an exactly controlled way to find the cache. The caches end up feeling too scripted for me. I like caching to be an adventure into the unknown: figuring out how to solve a puzzle, how to get to GZ, learning new things at an earthcache, etc. Somehow multis seem more like a guided tour through things that the CO wants you to see. Like I said, probably just me, but it has an impact.

Perhaps European multis are set up more like guided tours. I tend to find multis to be more of an adventure. You don't know where they will take you beyond the first stage. And if the stages are field puzzles, you have the same experience of figuring out the puzzles and what you are supposed to do (though I'll admit that most multi field puzzles aren't really puzzles but just substitute some number you find at the stage and do some arithmetic).
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On traveling, my order is

 

1) virtuals, earthcaches, webcams

2) the rest

 

I might do a little detour for a webcam or Wherigo though, and I don't exclude any types as such. If there's a nice tourist multi I'll most likely do it as it will probably bring me to more interesting places than the average traditional. Mysteries are usually solved at home already.

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Multis are like those old Christmas tree lights where if one bulb goes out the whole string is dead.

You may say the smiley doesn't matter but this sounds a whole like like saying a DNF is a failure.

 

You misunderstand. A DNF at least takes you to the cache location; a multi DNF takes you someplace along the way. There's a world of difference.

 

Your claim that multis are less likely to be missing than traditionals is so absurd I won't even dignify it with a response.

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Certainly, multi caches tend to be more difficult because you have to find multiple caches. And also with more caches, there is a greater chance of at least one being missing. But the same is is true whether you find one three stage multi or three traditional caches. In fact if you have a multi placed by a cache owner who is willing to take the time to respond to maintenance requests, there could be an argument made that there is less chance for a stage in the multi to be missing than there is for one in three traditionals to be missing.

 

If out of three traditionals one is missing I still get two smilies but with a multi I get none.

 

More so the biggest turn off for multis when I'm around home is if they point me in the opposite direction I'm traveling, however I am quite good at solving multis online.

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Multis are my favorite kind of caches, but I only do 2-stage, or maybe 3, if I'm traveling. Too often I've spent a lot of time on one, only to come up with a missing stage or no final cache. The time I spent is annoying, but most annoying is the fact that I might never be back to avenge a dnf. Sometimes I've stopped to do an involved one on the road, and I usually regret it! When I travel, I look for virtuals and ECs first (I love learning and seeing new stuff, plus guarenteed finds!), then nearby traditionals. I do multis when I'm staying somewhere long enough to not mind coming up empty because I can go back.

 

As for the color of the icon--I actually love the color!

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Multis are like those old Christmas tree lights where if one bulb goes out the whole string is dead.

 

That's only true for a subclass of multi caches. There are multi caches out there where all intermediary waypoints are given. So the worst that can happen is that at the end you do not find the cache container which is the same risk as for a traditional (actually, in many cases, I'd say the risk is smaller as traditionals often happen to be hidden directly at a special, distinctive location while for multis a hideout a bit more off can easily be chosen when the special locations have been shown on the way).

 

I own multi caches that have been working fine for more than 10 years.

 

many multi owners (especially in Europe) really love to make you jump through a bunch of hoops in an exactly controlled way to find the cache. The caches end up feeling too scripted for me. I like caching to be an adventure into the unknown: figuring out how to solve a puzzle, how to get to GZ, learning new things at an earthcache, etc. Somehow multis seem more like a guided tour through things that the CO wants you to see. Like I said, probably just me, but it has an impact.

 

There are many different sorts of multi caches in Europe. Of course, if you go for an urban multi cache in a city with many sights, the probability that you will end up with a guided tour is a very high, but that's exactly the intent of such caches.

 

Moreover, being shown the things the CO wants you to see is not necessarily a bad thing.

In the early times of geocaching in my area some cachers that are very experienced mountaineers and know special places and trails that are not marked and not mentioned in guide books and often not even shown on maps have hidden caches to share their knowledge. As the adventure is regarded, many of those caches are too adventurous for me.

Consider a cache like that one

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCK49J_jager-steigen?guid=201393ac-c44d-4090-b165-382053cfc35f

Even very experienced hikers are glad about the provided waypoints and for many the cache ended up in quite some adventure. The alternative would be to hide say 15 traditionals, but that's a real overkill in this sensitive area. It also would attract cachers who come for the numbers and for whom such caches are too risky.

I truly believe that in such situations a multi cache is the best solution.

 

For me multi caches are also better suited for setting up caches along long distance hiking routes - like e.g. this one

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1FPN1_munchen-venedig-munich-venice-monaco-venezia

A trail of individual traditionals would very soon become poorly maintained and also much more time gets lost on the hike for searching for containers than in the case of a multi cache with virtual stages.

Of course the idea of the cache is that cachers hike along the Munich-Venice hiking route. So the cache is definitely not suitable for those who just want to pick an arbitrary cache with header coordinates in Munich or find an arbitrary container in Italy. The cache will attract those who want to do the hike (whether in one run or in parts).

 

What is certainly true is that traditionals can be more easily used in another way than intended than multi caches.

So if a traditional is hidden at a summit which is reachable by a cable car, one risks to get many logs of people who come by cable car which might not be the intent of a hiking cache. It is not necessarily about control that cache owners prefer to focus on a certain target audience. Those coming up by cable car typically have a different experience than the hikers. I'm not saying that there is anything about about a cache that can be done by cable car (there are people who like to visit mountains, but are not able to hike up). When I hide a hiking cache, I'd like however to hear about the hiking experience. The idea is then not to provide a cache that means a fast find for someone who comes to the area with just 10 minutes at his/her disposition.

 

Consider e.g. my most recent cache which is a 16km walk around a village. With the multi cache set up (all intermediary points are provided) only those who come for the walk, visit the cache. If I had hidden 20 traditionals on the way, what would have happened is that I at least 10 times as many visitors had come, but many of them would have driven closely to the caches (which is possible due to the character of the landscape where roads are never very far) and many would have visited a few caches on day 1, some others on day 2 etc and only few would have went for the walk that is the sole reason for me having hidden this cache. My target audience with this cache are cachers that enjoy walking/hiking and not those who like searching for containers or are out for adventures (the area is not adventurous at all).

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss.
Clearly that's why I find so many multi-caches then. When I use maps, I usually don't have my past finds displayed. Since the yellow multi-cache icons can't hide among all the yellow smileys, I can see them easily, so I end up doing a lot of multi-caches.

 

:rolleyes:

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss.
Clearly that's why I find so many multi-caches then. When I use maps, I usually don't have my past finds displayed. Since the yellow multi-cache icons can't hide among all the yellow smileys, I can see them easily, so I end up doing a lot of multi-caches.

 

:rolleyes:

Ditto. I hide my finds on the map, so actually, I think the multis pop out more than trads do.

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Multis are like those old Christmas tree lights where if one bulb goes out the whole string is dead.

 

That's only true for a subclass of multi caches. There are multi caches out there where all intermediary waypoints are given. So the worst that can happen is that at the end you do not find the cache container which is the same risk as for a traditional (actually, in many cases, I'd say the risk is smaller as traditionals often happen to be hidden directly at a special, distinctive location while for multis a hideout a bit more off can easily be chosen when the special locations have been shown on the way).

 

I own multi caches that have been working fine for more than 10 years.

 

If all the intermediate waypoints are given but one is missing you can still end up unable to complete the cache, and usually the intermediate waypoints aren't of sufficient interest in their own right to leave the feeling that it was still a worthwhile venture to start the hunt.

 

If you get to the third of six waypoints and find the sign is missing, or the physical stage is nowhere to be found, is it likely you'll have got enough enjoyment out of the two stages to feel like it was time well spent? Perhaps the missing information is of sufficiently little importance that you can figure the likely location of the final without it. If the cache is posted at N 51 23.ABC W 0 36.DEF where A-F are at each of six waypoints then you can guess C=5, F=5 and be close enough on the ground to make no difference. If the waypoint that gives you A is missing you'll have a much harder job figuring where it is.

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss. The green boxes, on the other hand, are super easy to spot and REALLY annoying to look at so you just HAVE to go find the cache so that your map looks pretty.

 

I think the icons for multis should be purple so they stand out better.

 

Discuss.

 

Use GC Little Helper to hide the smileys on the map. Now go get them yellow multis!

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss. The green boxes, on the other hand, are super easy to spot and REALLY annoying to look at so you just HAVE to go find the cache so that your map looks pretty.

 

I think the icons for multis should be purple so they stand out better.

 

Discuss.

 

I think the real reason is 2, 3, 4, 5+ finds = 1 smilie and if just one of the stages is missing = 0 smilies.

 

I think that's a huge part of it. Too much work and not enough reward for a lot of people.

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss. The green boxes, on the other hand, are super easy to spot and REALLY annoying to look at so you just HAVE to go find the cache so that your map looks pretty.

 

I think the icons for multis should be purple so they stand out better.

 

Discuss.

 

I think the real reason is 2, 3, 4, 5+ finds = 1 smilie and if just one of the stages is missing = 0 smilies.

 

I think that's a huge part of it. Too much work and not enough reward for a lot of people.

Yep.

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Like many others have mentioned, I will skip multis and most puzzles when traveling, but will do the ones around home. I really appreciate knowing in advance how many stages there will be and the total distance to be covered. Like in this new one just a couple miles from home:

 

This is a 2-stage multi-cache. The final stage is about 2 miles from the first.

 

and this one, which gives me enough information to stay away from it (though if it were closer to home I would do it--but not alone):

 

This is a multi-location cache that can challenge even experienced geocachers. The latter portion requires walking up to one mile (round trip) on unimproved trails. . . . Driving a minimum of 12 miles required for this five stop cache.
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Why would I want to waste my time doing a multi to find a bisontube in a bush?
If you see a multi-cache as just a waste of time on the way to a Bison tube in a bush, then you shouldn't do them.

 

I usually have a great adventure with multi-caches, and many of them are on my Favorites list--even a few where the final cache is something mundane like a magnetic keyholder.

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Your claim that multis are less likely to be missing than traditionals is so absurd I won't even dignify it with a response.

That's not what I said. What I said was that if you had a multi with 3 stages and an owner willing to respond to maintenance requests it would be less likely for a stage to be missing than if you picked 3 traditionals at random that at least one of those would be missing.

 

My experience is that cache owners who take the time to place a multicache are more likely to do maintenance that people who place multiple traditional caches.

 

A DNF at least takes you to the cache location; a multi DNF takes you someplace along the way. There's a world of difference.

I think we have the same disagreement that we have over challenge caches. I say that I don't need the smiley to find the challenge cache and that I would only do the challenge part if it was something I might try anyhow. You think the WIGAS log for the completing the challenge and finding the cache is what makes challenges appealing to people.

 

In the same way I think going out an looking for whatever stages you find when searching for a multi is just as much fun as going out and finding 2 out of three traditionals. You think that the two WIGAS logs you can write for the traditionals is what makes them more appealing than the multicache where you might find some containers but you still can't use a WIGAS log.

 

I'll admit that there is a certain satisfaction one gets by qualifying for a WIGAS log. I suspect that it causes the release of some brain chemical that we feel is a reward. It is probably true that people will chose caches that are more likely to give them this reward then they are to choose cache that may not end with a WIGAS point and dopamine rush.

 

On the other hand, many people get a different satisfaction from geocaching. Just going outdoors and having fun is what they are after. While finding a cache still triggers the brain to reward them, they may associate it with actually finding a container rather than with the hassle of logging into a website and trying come up with something to write besides "TFTC". For someone like this, spending a afternoon on a single multi-cache may be more enjoyable than grabbing a bunch of powertrail caches even if they end up unable to post a WIGAS.

Edited by tozainamboku
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If all the intermediate waypoints are given but one is missing you can still end up unable to complete the cache,

 

You can also fail to find a traditional.

 

and usually the intermediate waypoints aren't of sufficient interest in their own right to leave the feeling that it was still a worthwhile venture to start the hunt.

 

In case of the multi caches I like this is not the case. Such caches are about the journey and if you manage to complete the hike/walk/bike tour along which you have been guided by the multi caches, then finding the cache at the end is secondary which is true for the traditionals I like, too.

 

If you happen to fail at one of the stages of a cache like this one

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC3AT45_kaskogerlweg?guid=0ac22d6c-dd0b-4090-8003-ef19d1487862

(something not too likely anyway), then still you hiked along a very nice trail and have been to many nice places.

The main object on display for such caches is the route itself and not only 2-3 individual locations along the route and even less 1 or more plastic containers hidden somewhere.

Many of the cachers who have visited the cache have never walked along the trail before and many have not even have heard about it before.

 

Cezanne

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Time may be a factor for some folk also. I am used to the colour now, but if I don't have my cheaters on, those yellow symbols are reminiscent of smilies, 'tis true.

 

Did a great multi where one stage was missing, but the CO gave coords to the rest. I remember going up and down what is known locally as the stairway to hell many times trying to find a way into the final. Had a great appetite that night, but that multi took most of the afternoon....fun, and I loved it - in spite of the exercise!

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A few people have mentioned them, so I have to ask: why all the hate for Letterboxes? In my area they are basically a traditional with a rubber stamp inside. Am I doing them wrong?

 

Also, I like the yellow for multi's.

 

A proper letterbox gives some sort of non-GPS instructions for finding the cache, but many people just place traditionals with stamps.

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I'm all down for the pink Multis! I don't have the problem you talk of because I use a different app that just puts a small smiley on the side of the cache and don't change its color. I could see it being a problem in the way you describe it and as I have seen on the official app.

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If all the intermediate waypoints are given but one is missing you can still end up unable to complete the cache,

 

You can also fail to find a traditional.

 

Yes, but if the traditional is in an area you might like to visit even without a geocache (I've often said a mark of a good cache location is if you can leave having not found the cache but still glad you went to the coordinates) then failing to find the cache isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

and usually the intermediate waypoints aren't of sufficient interest in their own right to leave the feeling that it was still a worthwhile venture to start the hunt.

 

In case of the multi caches I like this is not the case. Such caches are about the journey and if you manage to complete the hike/walk/bike tour along which you have been guided by the multi caches, then finding the cache at the end is secondary which is true for the traditionals I like, too.

 

If you happen to fail at one of the stages of a cache like this one

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC3AT45_kaskogerlweg?guid=0ac22d6c-dd0b-4090-8003-ef19d1487862

(something not too likely anyway), then still you hiked along a very nice trail and have been to many nice places.

The main object on display for such caches is the route itself and not only 2-3 individual locations along the route and even less 1 or more plastic containers hidden somewhere.

Many of the cachers who have visited the cache have never walked along the trail before and many have not even have heard about it before.

 

Cezanne

 

If you fail at a stage of a multi where each stage is a point of interest in its own right then I'd agree with you entirely. If the multi took me along trails I'd never seen before and a stage was missing then I'd still have found the trails. If a stage was missing and the trails were enjoyable I'd hike the trails anyway and be thankful that the cache took me to the trail even if I didn't get a smiley (I'm the kind of guy who sees a trail and wants to know where it goes, I've been known to plan a day's hiking on holiday around a trail marker I saw that wasn't on my trail map, and record a GPX log of the trail so I could upload it to OpenStreetMap)

 

On the other hand if the final stage of the multi was at a breathtaking vista that's tucked out of the way, finding a couple of stages took me through tick-infested undergrowth and having realised that stage 5 of 8 was missing there was little option but to backtrack through the ticks because the trails had stopped, I might be less enthused about it. Likewise in an urban area if you're picking information from road signs and never get to see the little park tucked away that you wouldn't otherwise have known about, failing to complete the cache means you miss out on the only interesting part of it.

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Why would I want to waste my time doing a multi to find a bisontube in a bush?
If you see a multi-cache as just a waste of time on the way to a Bison tube in a bush, then you shouldn't do them.

 

I usually have a great adventure with multi-caches, and many of them are on my Favorites list--even a few where the final cache is something mundane like a magnetic keyholder.

From reading my post it's pretty obvious I don't

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a. When traveling I really don't want to take the extra time for a multi, especially if the final sends me backwards.

b. If doing a route for caching multi's tend to screw up the route because the stages and/or final sends me off on a wild goose chase and totally screws the route.

c. Some multi pages don't give a clue if your going to do WP1 and then the final or your going to go off on a six or seven stage multi.

 

If I'm caching around home and really not looking for a good number day I will do multi's because they can be fun. There are two 16 stage multis around here that are on a tree farm. Each one took the better part of a day but were fun and I was glad I did them.

 

This.

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My current theory as to why multis are not as popular as traditionals is their color on the map. They look so much like yellow smilies, they are easy to miss. The green boxes, on the other hand, are super easy to spot and REALLY annoying to look at so you just HAVE to go find the cache so that your map looks pretty.

 

I think the icons for multis should be purple so they stand out better.

 

Discuss.

 

I think the real reason is 2, 3, 4, 5+ finds = 1 smilie and if just one of the stages is missing = 0 smilies.

 

And this.

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I really think everyone is off topic on this one. I really wouldn't mind to see them in pink or maybe a fuchsia. If you don't know what color that is; look up "The 80's".

 

Not really, the OP stated her theory why people don't do multis and everyone else has been post why they don't, very on-topic.

 

I wouldn't do any more or less in they were pink, fuchsia, or any other colour.

Edited by Roman!
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Somehow multis seem more like a guided tour through things that the CO wants you to see. Like I said, probably just me, but it has an impact.

 

Bingo! I have hated guided tours since I was 6 years old traveling across the country with my family. I love exploring but I want to do it on my own terms. There have been many multi's over the years where I have just quit in the middle. not because I couldn't find a stage, but just because I got tired of it and wanted to walk in a different direction.

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You can also fail to find a traditional.

 

Yes, but if the traditional is in an area you might like to visit even without a geocache (I've often said a mark of a good cache location is if you can leave having not found the cache but still glad you went to the coordinates) then failing to find the cache isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Don't see why this isn't true for a multi-cache as well. You even go on to say

 

If you fail at a stage of a multi where each stage is a point of interest in its own right then I'd agree with you entirely. If the multi took me along trails I'd never seen before and a stage was missing then I'd still have found the trails. If a stage was missing and the trails were enjoyable I'd hike the trails anyway and be thankful that the cache took me to the trail even if I didn't get a smiley (I'm the kind of guy who sees a trail and wants to know where it goes, I've been known to plan a day's hiking on holiday around a trail marker I saw that wasn't on my trail map, and record a GPX log of the trail so I could upload it to OpenStreetMap)

What seems to be the case here is what I've call the great schism of geocaching. You are certain that the whole point of the multi-cache is to take you to some great place and that this is the final.

On the other hand if the final stage of the multi was at a breathtaking vista that's tucked out of the way, finding a couple of stages took me through tick-infested undergrowth and having realised that stage 5 of 8 was missing there was little option but to backtrack through the ticks because the trails had stopped, I might be less enthused about it. Likewise in an urban area if you're picking information from road signs and never get to see the little park tucked away that you wouldn't otherwise have known about, failing to complete the cache means you miss out on the only interesting part of it.

This may be true if the hider has that intent. My experience is that people who want to share a great spot using a geocache are likely to use a traditional. If the route is difficult to follow they might post some intermediate waypoints. It would seem a lot of extra work to hide stages for a multi.

 

I suppose a "guided tour" style multi could have a bunch of stages, each at a location the cache owner wants to share, with the "best" saved for the final stage. I've just not done many multi like this. Those that I have, used virtual intermediate stages so there was little chance of them being missing. (Of course you could do like me and get the address off the house next door to the 100+ year old house you were supposed to get the address from).

 

When I start out doing a multi, I go with a sense of adventure - not knowing where it will take me or if I will even complete it. If someone posted a picture of the breathtaking vista at the final, that might spoil it a bit. I might try to discover the route myself, should I get stuck at some stage. Of course the odds of finding the cache and getting a WIGAS go down. And there is no guarantee that I'll find the same vista. But I will have enjoyed my adventure.

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