School Sends Out Safety Alert Advising Against Geocaching

May 31, 2014

This was posted to a geocaching Facebook Group. It's not first hand information. I just thought it was interesting and was wondering what others thought about this.

Are schools sending out individual "Safety Alerts" that truly track our location for profit and can advertise it publicly like Foursquare, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and thousands of others?

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May 31, 2014

Looks like someone is getting worried about something they don't understand. Does the Geocaching app show your location to others? There are lots of other apps out there that track you on GPS. Why single out one in particular?

2.8k · May 31, 2014

The principal needs to learn to spell.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Roman!

10.2k · May 31, 2014

Well, they needn't worry about Foursquare, as that will fundamentally change how it works sometime this summer. Am I allowed to mention Foursquare? It's not a bannable offense is it? :lol: As a matter of fact, I often use it as an example when people say volunteers in the field (the reviewers here) should be paid. They have tens of thousands of volunteers in the field administering their listings.

This thing is completely ridiculous. And by the way, I was detained for 20 minutes by the Clark, New Jersey P.D. while Geocaching in 2004. And that's also where YouTube celebrity Kai the hatchet wielding hitchhiker murdered a Lawyer. :blink:

Edit to add link for Kai. I actually don't have a link to my detainment by the Clark P.D., because I DNF'd the cache. If I happen to stumble on the link to this long since archived cache by a long since gone cacher, I'll post it. I do know the date was 1/31/2004.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

2.1k · May 31, 2014

They don't seem to understand geocaching or understand that children shouldn't be downloading apps without permission, or apps in general I think.

Also the topic tittle is an inflammatory choice, it should read "geocaching app use discouraged by school"

3.8k · May 31, 2014

Yup. I'll tell all the kids to delete the geocach app, if they have it. Now the Groundspeak apps, cgeo, and whatever else they have are fine right?

2.1k · May 31, 2014

Yup. I'll tell all the kids to delete the geocach app, if they have it. Now the Groundspeak apps, cgeo, and whatever else they have are fine right?

Clearly, stalking only happens when you have apps that know where you are. Does anyone know if the app in question even broadcasts locations?

3.8k · May 31, 2014

Yup. I'll tell all the kids to delete the geocach app, if they have it. Now the Groundspeak apps, cgeo, and whatever else they have are fine right?

Clearly, stalking only happens when you have apps that know where you are. Does anyone know if the app in question even broadcasts locations?

That was a joke based on the miss-spelling.

Broadcasting? AFAIK, the geocaching app itself doesn't send out your location. Now posting to Facebook, or Twitter does. You've seen them. After a post; an hour ago in *Whatever City*

There's just too many other ways for us to be tracked to worry about one single app. What's stopping a virus from getting the info on my geocaching app, or even the built in maps/navigation that come with every phone now-days, and stealing the location from that?

Anyway, too many people geocache-it would have to a targeted thing. There's just as much chance of someone picking a little kid, as there is an armed police officer caching on his lunch break. Or a 6 foot 200 pound professional fighter. So by getting rid of that app, all that will happen is the badguy will have to do it the old fashioned way. Binoculars, and a little walking.

So, while not a direct threat, it's as much a threat as literally anything else we do on a phone.

1.5k · May 31, 2014

In my opinion, they're doing the game a service by telling kids to take the app off their phones anyway!

Even if it's not accurate, at least there will be fewer unregistered/unactivated accounts from smartphone users!

May 31, 2014

In my opinion, they're doing the game a service by telling kids to take the app off their phones anyway!

Even if it's not accurate, at least there will be fewer unregistered/unactivated accounts from smartphone users!

Just what I was thinking.

3.6k · May 31, 2014

7.7k · May 31, 2014

Looks like someone is getting worried about something they don't understand. Does the Geocaching app show your location to others? There are lots of other apps out there that track you on GPS. Why single out one in particular?

Practically all apps that I looked at requires "coarse location" and / or "fine location" and "Full Network Access". Do they send real time location information back? A lot of them probably do, to serve up advertisement.

After thinking about it, I think I can see their concern over some other apps. Groundspeak does actively encourage you to share information about yourself (through logs and photos) and even if you don't, even if all you do is log "That's one more find for me!", there's still a trail of where you have been to that's easy enough for strangers to track. With Facebook, I can restrict who sees my updates, but with GC, it's open to all, and logs through the app are close to real time.

3.3k · May 31, 2014

Looks like someone is getting worried about something they don't understand. Does the Geocaching app show your location to others? There are lots of other apps out there that track you on GPS. Why single out one in particular?

Practically all apps that I looked at requires "coarse location" and / or "fine location" and "Full Network Access". Do they send real time location information back? A lot of them probably do, to serve up advertisement.

After thinking about it, I think I can see their concern over some other apps. Groundspeak does actively encourage you to share information about yourself (through logs and photos) and even if you don't, even if all you do is log "That's one more find for me!", there's still a trail of where you have been to that's easy enough for strangers to track. With Facebook, I can restrict who sees my updates, but with GC, it's open to all, and logs through the app are close to real time.

So what if a stranger can track where you've been? Unless the stranger is taking a huge amount of time and effort to monitor users to figure out who is a child, maybe consider who is a child of their preferred gender, then watch to see when they log a cache and second guess where they might be headed next, all it does is give information that's out of date the minute it's received. Even if they could guess where the child was going next and get there first to lie in wait they wouldn't know whether the child was alone, with a group of friends, or walking the family's angry Rottweiler. Anyone prepared to go to that kind of lengths to get their hands on a child would probably find it easier to hang around a school with a big bag of candy.

3.7k · May 31, 2014

Are there really children who go geocaching by themselves? I haven't met any.

Well, we've got a couple email addresses. Maybe we should send them some information (and speeling tips).

Edited May 31, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

3.7k · May 31, 2014

In my opinion, they're doing the game a service by telling kids to take the app off their phones anyway!

Even if it's not accurate, at least there will be fewer unregistered/unactivated accounts from smartphone users!

This is an excellent point, actually. Do we really want teens caching by themselves and showing all their friends the caches? Probably not.

If someone really wanted to stalk a child, wouldn't it be much easier just to follow them home from school? :unsure:

8.3k · June 1, 2014

So here is a thought. Maybe someone wanted to give the principal grief. What better way than post a bogus note home on a farcebook page?

6.1k · June 1, 2014

The principal is likely a geocacher and is tired of the boilerplate logs as well as kids mishandling their caches. Stay away!!

1.3k · June 1, 2014

I guess the question is this. Does the geocaching app (or others geocaching apps) sell your GPS and tracking data to 3rd parties like that QR code game (which shall remain nameless) does without your explicit permission?

7.7k · June 1, 2014

So what if a stranger can track where you've been? Unless the stranger is taking a huge amount of time and effort to monitor users to figure out who is a child, maybe consider who is a child of their preferred gender, then watch to see when they log a cache and second guess where they might be headed next, all it does is give information that's out of date the minute it's received. Even if they could guess where the child was going next and get there first to lie in wait they wouldn't know whether the child was alone, with a group of friends, or walking the family's angry Rottweiler. Anyone prepared to go to that kind of lengths to get their hands on a child would probably find it easier to hang around a school with a big bag of candy.

It's not difficult to figure out who's a child if they post photos. It's also not difficult to stalk / ambush someone if you have real time logs - someone did that to me once, but without any malicious intent. Has it happened? I don't believe so. Is it a real threat? I don't think so either. I believe what probably happened is that a teacher came across students playing with their phone when they should be paying attention to the lesson, saw the geocaching app, and things just got blown out of proportion.

BTW, people (thankfully) pay attention to strange men who hang around schools by themselves with or without candy.

3.3k · June 1, 2014

So what if a stranger can track where you've been? Unless the stranger is taking a huge amount of time and effort to monitor users to figure out who is a child, maybe consider who is a child of their preferred gender, then watch to see when they log a cache and second guess where they might be headed next, all it does is give information that's out of date the minute it's received. Even if they could guess where the child was going next and get there first to lie in wait they wouldn't know whether the child was alone, with a group of friends, or walking the family's angry Rottweiler. Anyone prepared to go to that kind of lengths to get their hands on a child would probably find it easier to hang around a school with a big bag of candy.

It's not difficult to figure out who's a child if they post photos. It's also not difficult to stalk / ambush someone if you have real time logs - someone did that to me once, but without any malicious intent. Has it happened? I don't believe so. Is it a real threat? I don't think so either. I believe what probably happened is that a teacher came across students playing with their phone when they should be paying attention to the lesson, saw the geocaching app, and things just got blown out of proportion.

BTW, people (thankfully) pay attention to strange men who hang around schools by themselves with or without candy.

It could be the teacher saw kids playing with the caching app in class, but to escalate that into a concern for the security of children seems little more than a feeding of the existing state of paranoia and for no good reason. If that were the case I wonder why similar things haven't been sent out relating to faceache and other apps. People checking in to specific locations would seem just as much of a "security threat" as posting found logs on geocaches.

1.2k · June 1, 2014

[Offtopic] Hey, what a coincidence,I went to school in that town. A little while before geocaching was invented. [/Offtopic]

11.3k · June 1, 2014

With Facebook, I can restrict who sees my updates, but with GC, it's open to all, and logs through the app are close to real time.

Why is the unsigned letter only about the vaguely existent APP "GEOCACH"? There's a lot of space on that page where they could say "also, restrict who sees your child's Facebook updates, and here's how...", and include other info about ways to avoid being tracked. Because posting a log close to real time is a danger to children in Clark, New Jersey (although nobody but the school Principal knew that ).

It looks more like someone found the principal's stationery, and pulled a leetle prank.

Edited June 1, 2014 by kunarion

10.2k · June 1, 2014

Are there really children who go geocaching by themselves? I haven't met any.

Well, we've got a couple email addresses. Maybe we should send them some information (and speeling tips).

Seriously, you've never seen nor heard of a middle school aged cacher? I've seen many of them. And lets just say their hides generally are NOT very good. :laughing:

Personal experience, this really happened. A middle school aged cacher found a challenge cache of mine for his very first find, took it with him, and placed it as his own cache in a park about 4 miles away.

7.7k · June 1, 2014

If that were the case I wonder why similar things haven't been sent out relating to faceache and other apps.

Because teacher and principal are familiar with those social media apps and use those themselves. That which we are familiar with does not frighten us.

7.7k · June 1, 2014

It looks more like someone found the principal's stationery, and pulled a leetle prank.

Possible. But I could have so much more fun with that. Actually, maybe I will...

7.7k · June 1, 2014

It looks more like someone found the principal's stationery, and pulled a leetle prank.

It's posted on the school's official Facebook page on May 29 but appears to have been removed. I can still find it in Google's cache of the page but that may change any time. In it, the school replied :

Thank you for your comment Mr. Myers, but the bigger problem is that children are going to these locations by themselves and the possibility of people who do not have the best intentions being there is scary. Every parent has the right to allow their children to have any app they choose, but it would be wrong for a school to not warn of potential dangers.

So maybe someone got hold of official stationery, and hacked into the school's facebook page. I'm going with Occam's Razor (which reminds me - time to shave and have coffee )

I guess the concern here is that someone would hide a cache and then lay in ambush waiting for kids to show up? Yeah, ridiculous, you and I know that. Not sure if the school knows better now. But fearmongering of something unfamiliar is not unique to schools, politicians, New Jersey, or even the United States.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Chrysalides

2.2k · June 1, 2014

I just can't see this being real. The spelling mistake and the number of commas in the sentence just doesn't look like a message written by an adult with a background in education.

11.3k · June 1, 2014

If that were the case I wonder why similar things haven't been sent out relating to faceache and other apps.

Because teacher and principal are familiar with those social media apps and use those themselves. That which we are familiar with does not frighten us.

Yes. The Principal didn't seem to notice that everyone is tracked (the Principal, too), merely by having a smartphone. There's no App To Remove that prevents such "tracking". It's an abstract association of "The Government" and/or "The Phone Company" who gets the data, so the Parents/Guardians won't read warnings about that. They warn people only about simple things the parents can do -- "delete this App" -- not about truly protecting privacy.

Even if the letter is a spoof, it works because it reads exactly like what a Principal would say. :anicute:

Edited June 1, 2014 by kunarion

11.3k · June 1, 2014

I just can't see this being real. The spelling mistake and the number of commas in the sentence just doesn't look like a message written by an adult with a background in education.

It does seem kind of odd to warn everyone about a specific product, yet not accurately spell said product. <_<

And, children can "Geocach", to be in the exact same real or imagined danger (going outdoors(!) where who knows who they'll meet with nefarious intentions), APP or not, "Geocach" or not. The Parents/Guardians who need a warning letter aren't the kind of Parents/Guardians who are all that concerned about "Safe Children", or they wouldn't need the warning letter.

That letter just plain seems like any typical irritatingly authentic School Principal Letter. It's like the PSA radio & TV commercials, "This is to remind you that if you have children, talk to them, interact with them, give them food and clothing", etc. Man am I sooo glad to be reminded. Cause I completely forgot that!

Edited June 1, 2014 by kunarion

7.7k · June 1, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

I found it by searching for "Carl H Kumpf geocaching" and accessing the page cache. It was cached from yesterday. I saved an image, but that's not going to convince anyone that it's authentic (heck, I can create a "UFO Lands On White House Lawn" CNN page doing that).

I'm amused to see that while the rest of posts have hardly any shares, that one post has 1292 shares.

11.3k · June 1, 2014

A middle school aged cacher found a challenge cache of mine for his very first find, took it with him, and placed it as his own cache in a park about 4 miles away.

I highly recommend that unsupervised children not "GEOCACH". So if that letter helps, that's great. But there are other ways that they can access a "GEOCACH" than with an "APP".

11.3k · June 1, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache[/url

Does that school have a history of sending out ill-researched preposterous "Warnings to Parents/Guardians"? Because I'm guessing they do.

7.7k · June 1, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

Does that school have a history of sending out ill-researched preposterous "Warnings to Parents/Guardians"? Because I'm guessing they do.

Warn first and ask questions later, I guess. It's an easy defense : "we have the students' safety and welfare foremost in mind and thought it best to get the warning out as early as possible". This is the first time I've heard of this school, so I can't say anything about it specifically.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Chrysalides

3.7k · June 1, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

I found it by searching for "Carl H Kumpf geocaching" and accessing the page cache. It was cached from yesterday. I saved an image, but that's not going to convince anyone that it's authentic (heck, I can create a "UFO Lands On White House Lawn" CNN page doing that).

I'm amused to see that while the rest of posts have hardly any shares, that one post has 1292 shares.

Looks like they've deleted the thread from their Facebook page. It sounds like they are blaming geocaching for kids going wandering the neighborhood. Heaven forbid if kids gets exercise and fresh air. Apparently, the school thinks there is a pedophile stationed at each cache in their area. :unsure:

3.3k · June 1, 2014

If that were the case I wonder why similar things haven't been sent out relating to faceache and other apps.

Because teacher and principal are familiar with those social media apps and use those themselves. That which we are familiar with does not frighten us.

One might hope that part of modern education would be to teach people that "familiar" doesn't automatically mean "safe" and to encourage children to think for themselves. Hysteria that somebody might post something identifying their location on a site that, compared to faceache, is positively obscure while not worrying that they might be posting geotagged photos onto faceache that give away their home address doesn't seem like responsible teaching to me.

3.3k · June 1, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

I found it by searching for "Carl H Kumpf geocaching" and accessing the page cache. It was cached from yesterday. I saved an image, but that's not going to convince anyone that it's authentic (heck, I can create a "UFO Lands On White House Lawn" CNN page doing that).

I'm amused to see that while the rest of posts have hardly any shares, that one post has 1292 shares.

Looks like they've deleted the thread from their Facebook page. It sounds like they are blaming geocaching for kids going wandering the neighborhood. Heaven forbid if kids gets exercise and fresh air. Apparently, the school thinks there is a pedophile stationed at each cache in their area.

At least with the endless proliferation of micros we can be confident the paedophiles won't be lurking inside the caches. But perish the thought the little darlings might accidentally burn off a few calories going outdoors and getting exercise. How are they supposed to grow up weighing more than their SUV if they do such crazy things?

4.2k · June 2, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

Also on that page (scroll down), it looks like the school is sending junk food to soldiers .

Some days I just can't believe the internet.

3.7k · June 2, 2014

One might hope that part of modern education would be to teach people that "familiar" doesn't automatically mean "safe" and to encourage children to think for themselves.

Exactly. Even if these kids go home the way they are supposed to, what's to say that's safer? When my daughter was 10, I would let her wander the neighborhood with friends. She knew not to get in a stranger's car and how to seek help if necessary. With cell phones being so available these days, if you're really paranoid, you can give your kid a phone.

3.7k · June 2, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

Also on that page (scroll down), it looks like the school is sending junk food to soldiers .

Some days I just can't believe the internet.

Did you see the bit where they are rewarding kids with Kentucky Fried chicken for doing well in math? :huh:

Edited June 2, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

7.7k · June 2, 2014

Check out the Google cache for yourself (while it's still there) :

Google cache

Also on that page (scroll down), it looks like the school is sending junk food to soldiers .

Some days I just can't believe the internet.

Did you see the bit where they are rewarding kids with Kentucky Fried chicken for doing well in math?

Yeah, I have no trouble with sending candy to soldiers. They do lots of hard physical work, they'll burn off those calories in no time. The KFC for good math scores, on the other hand...

And 11 people liked that post.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Chrysalides

8k · June 2, 2014

With cell phones being so available these days, if you're really paranoid, you can give your kid a phone.

2.2k · June 2, 2014

Looks like they've deleted the thread from their Facebook page. It sounds like they are blaming geocaching for kids going wandering the neighborhood. Heaven forbid if kids gets exercise and fresh air. Apparently, the school thinks there is a pedophile stationed at each cache in their area.

We, as humans, have real issues dealing with probabilities. The children are at much greater risk riding with mom and dad on the drive to school than they are playing outside.

I'm so happy to have grown up in an era where we spent hours outdoors without any parental supervision. I just don't understand how people my age who were raised in that way ended up so paranoid. I think it's our easy access to information. Because we see reports of child abductions every day on the news we assume the odds of it happening are much higher than they really are. It's like playing the lottery -- never mind the math, someone wins every week!

When I'm finally blessed with children, I sure hope I can raise them in a "throwback" manner and can teach them to be aware, be cautious, but to not fear everything. Trying to bring this back to being caching related, I think Geocaching is a great activity for kids that can teach responsibility and provides a good excuse for physical activity and would be something for schools to encourage parents to adopt with their kids.

4.8k · June 2, 2014

The document looks a bit Photoshopped to me, but that aside, it does seem consistent with the TOU:

If you are under the age of 13, you are not permitted to use our services.

Although the age of 13 doesn't capture all Middle School students, it probably excludes the majority.

7.7k · June 2, 2014

The document looks a bit Photoshopped to me, but that aside, it does seem consistent with the TOU:

No, I "examined the pixels". It wouldn't have been difficult to create a fake letterhead, print it out, and take a photo of that. But presumably it might be a little more difficult to get into the school's facebook account and post that image. And if I did, there's a lot more hilarity to be had than posting a notice about geocaching. Good point about the TOU though.

21.5k · June 3, 2014

Eight off-topic posts have been hidden from view. Please stay on the topic of the school warning, the use of geocaching apps by middle schoolers, etc. Thank you.

6.1k · June 3, 2014

With cell phones being so available these days, if you're really paranoid, you can give your kid a phone.

The phone app could certainly cause more problems than the geocaching one.

3.6k · June 3, 2014

Those meet friends phone app are worse.

Geocaching phone app is mild compare to what I see out there. As long you dont log your find right away.

Edited June 3, 2014 by SwineFlew

2.4k · June 3, 2014

Wonder what the school thinks about this new CASH hunting craze... forget kids, where it is happening, you have crazed mobs searching for money based on clues posted on social media. The news video I saw showed one group trashing a garden area (their own? doubt it). Will be very interesting to see what kind of backlash this one causes for Geocaching and other 'searchs'.

Anyway, on one hand it's nice to see someone is looking out for someone else (unless it's a fraud). But I can think of many things that are more 'risky' to kids than caching... like the new craze... not nice to get in the way of a determined adult. Reminded me of "It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world" (count approximate).

Doug 7rxc

6.7k · June 3, 2014

I think the OP is a fake.

However...

I have made presentations and more formal Geocaching 101 classes to middle schools, high schools and to Boy Scout troops, as well as at cache events.

Out of the thousands of caches around me I can think of only one cache that I believe was muggled by kid;, an ammo can I had barely hidden (UPS) aside a walking trail around a kids ball park Turned out that this trail was a shortcut from a neighborhood and had lots of kids foot travel. After a few times when ADULT cachers failed to hide properly..t

I have no problem with introducing kids to the game.. Try it. Take your church youth group on a midnight visit to some rural cemetery caches. Take your kids and their friends on cache runs in a bus or van, have some fun. They may or may not like the game, may or may not get their parents involved, but it's almost certain they won't learn to 'do geocaching right' without example and guidance.

Edited June 3, 2014 by TheAlabamaRambler

6.1k · June 3, 2014

I think the OP is a fake.

It is.

This is the original, which I discovered here.

School Sends Out Safety Alert Advising Against Geocaching

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