Banning geocaches on children's playground equipment

[+Ms Maddy]

Hi there.

 

There seems to be a profileration of caches hidden on kiddy swings and slides and so on. It is getting worse around my home turf and I find this alarming. A local newbie has even named his playground caches after his toddler daughter and stated that she likes to play there and when. This is disturbing!

 

If commonsense doesn't kick in, then perhaps Groundspeak needs to ban these hides altogether?

 

So many time I've rocked up to GZ to discover the coords are in a children's playground. There are so many better places to hide a cache. How hard can it be to avoid playgrounds???

 

I log these types of hides at night, which will probably get me arrested sometime. The other option is to put them on the Ignore list

 

Ms Maddy

 

Queensland, Australia

[+Touchstone]

The other option is to put them on the Ignore list

 

That's generally what I do. Going at a different time of day or during school hours, when the playground is empty sometimes helps, but otherwise I usually pass on these types of caches if it looks as if my presence will make parents or little ones uncomfortable.

 

I find the "common sense" argument works both ways, for cache owners and for finders.

[+GilkerscleughCachers]

Thankfully caches near Schools and Playgrounds are quite rare around here. It is a dodgy place to have caches, sure the chance of the cache being muggled is extremely high.

[+repcosy]

I can see it from both sides, I personally have not come across one directly in a park...

 

I suppose if you have kids who love geocaching it would be another story going as a family and the kids looking for it wouldn't be any harm, but on the other hand yes I definitely would not go hunting this one on my own. This would look very suspicious and open up some questions.

 

I suppose if the ignores out weighed the finds it's not worth having there.

 

Surely they Are at a flight risk.

[+Bear and Ragged]

And, kids being kids, how long until it's found and moved/removed/trashed by the youngsters...

[cezanne]

So many time I've rocked up to GZ to discover the coords are in a children's playground. There are so many better places to hide a cache. How hard can it be to avoid playgrounds???

 

I log these types of hides at night, which will probably get me arrested sometime. The other option is to put them on the Ignore list

 

There are many cache types which certain groups cannot retrieve at normal times without attracting attention.

A woman in a nice dress and fancy shoes who is accompanied by small children will have much less issues with a playground cache than with a cache

high up some construction where bringing along a ladder and climbing up is required. Putting on a reflective vest and trying to look like a craftsperson will not really work.

 

Of course playground caches can easily go missing, but that's true for many other types of urban caches as well.

 

In most cases looking at a map view already tells you that a certain cache is located on a playground.

 

 

 

Cezanne

[+T.D.M.22]

If someone chooses to tell us when his children go out, well that's his problem. Otherwise they should ban caches that I can drive to. I might speed and get in an accident.

 

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

 

And one more thing- there is nothing saying you have to find every cache. By finding those caches, you are giving people a reason to hide them there....

[+whh0]

A cache near us was archived recently. It was near a playground rather than in it but the Police had been called as a man had been seen loitering in the trees nearby. I think the problem is not using common sense and feeling the cache just has to be found whatever the location.

[+Beach_hut]

In the UK, the reviewing team won't (knowingly) publish a cache in or close to a children's playground.

[+fuzziebear3]

I think banning is not the solution. But hiders and seekers need to use common sense as to whether they should be there at that time. If there are kids and parents or others present, you might want to wait until another time.

 

Of course, common sense seems to be pretty rare these days.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

If someone chooses to tell us when his children go out, well that's his problem. Otherwise they should ban caches that I can drive to. I might speed and get in an accident.

 

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

 

And one more thing- there is nothing saying you have to find every cache. By finding those caches, you are giving people a reason to hide them there....

 

+1....we have found a dozen or two of these ( a mag cache under merry go rounds is popular )...we won't look if there are folks present.

[4wheelin_fool]

There's plenty of people who like to have those caches available for their children to find. Then there are plenty of people who feel that any cache should be fair game for anyone, at any time, and are obsessed with finding them all without using any type of discretion. At the very least, there needs to be a warning on the page.

[+Mudfrog]

If someone chooses to tell us when his children go out, well that's his problem. Otherwise they should ban caches that I can drive to. I might speed and get in an accident.

 

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

 

And one more thing- there is nothing saying you have to find every cache. By finding those caches, you are giving people a reason to hide them there....

 

+1....we have found a dozen or two of these ( a mag cache under merry go rounds is popular )...we won't look if there are folks present.

 

+2.... Being a 55 year old male with a young child, sure i understand that there are times when we need to be cautious. If my gpsr points to playground equipment, then i need to assess the situation and make a decision as to whether i should go for the cache then, make a return trip later, or skip the cache entirely. This is something that is easy for a finder to figure out for him/herself. I have found that if there is activity at a playground, that sometimes the best thing to do is tell the parent(s) there what i'm doing. Heck, at least twice that i can remember, they've gotten up and helped me make the find. []

[+dprovan]

I don't see any reason to be alarmed. No one is at risk here. But they do get old fast, and they do introduce some problems with retrieval. I've been lucky: although I generally cache during lunch, when I've found playground caches, they playgrounds are deserted or sparsely used when I get there, so I've been able to retrieve them all without trouble.

 

The biggest problem I had was with a multicache that required counting up things on the playground equipment, and some preschool field trip was all over the structures. I tried to explain what I was doing to one of the chaperons, but she still looked at me like I was a pervert. Fortunately the cache itself was hidden somewhere else.

[+geodarts]

 

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing.

 

In many cities and towns that is not the case -- ordinances ban adults without children of a certain age. So I guess you have to know your local rules and decide whether or not it is worth challenging them. I also wonder how many land managers are willing to give permission for a playground hide. If I was in charge of a park I probably would not -- and if people were nervous because cachers were searching for containers that had been placed there without permission, I would think about simplifying my job and removing all caches from parks.

 

In my state, parents became concerned when someone was using a playground with his cell phone out. Parents talked to the police and a local news station put the man's picture on the air. It turned out he was going to the playground to do pull ups and using his cellphone to time himself. Under this standard, I can see where our game might raise people's suspicions. A friend once went to a playground cache very early in the morning, without anyone else in the park, but a worker still approached him. My friend he was trying to avoid looking suspicious, but the park worker pointed out that it had not worked.

 

Still, it is not something that particularly worries me. These days, a playground hide is not the type of cache I would look for, so I do not even have the need to put them on my ignore list.

[+niraD]

And here I am, carrying a TB that has the goal to visit caches near playgrounds. Finding caches near playgrounds isn't the hard part. Finding caches near playgrounds that are big enough for a TB is the hard part.

 

The other option is to put them on the Ignore list

There's no shame in putting geocaches on your ignore list. I've done it. Many of the others contributing to this thread have done it. You don't have to find them all.

 

On this specific type of cache, I think the guidelines for adequate permission cover it sufficiently. If you think there is an issue with adequate permission, then you can follow up with the cache owner and post a Needs Archived log if necessary. But if there is adequate permission, then it's just another type of cache that some people like and others hate.

[Mr.Yuck]

If someone chooses to tell us when his children go out, well that's his problem. Otherwise they should ban caches that I can drive to. I might speed and get in an accident.

 

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

 

And one more thing- there is nothing saying you have to find every cache. By finding those caches, you are giving people a reason to hide them there....

 

I agree with no. 1 and 3. No. 2 I strongly disagree with. C'mon, we cannot go with the "I have just as much right to be there as the kids". Our activities can alarm and disturb the general public. i.e. like every single cache that has ever been blown up by a bomb squad.

 

Personal experience from last month: A .50 cal ammo box at a playground hidden by a kid who looks to be 12-14 years old from his profile gallery. And yes, I'm not kidding, it was a .50 cal ammo box.

 

Someone's 4/10/2014 log: This had to be the most awkward find I have found in the history of finding. I pull up and see a bunch of muggles, a mother and toddler walking towards gz. I park, walk towards gz assuming they were ,"treasure hunting" as well. First thing I ask. "Did you find it already?"....... they had no clue what I was talking about as I'm staring at my phone to get close to the coords while her 3 year old daughter had her pants down trying to escape the park to use the bathroom. Feeling embarrassed. I left, came back, and made the find. Signed the log, took a tb, will move along. Thanks for the embarrassment, .

 

My 4/16/2014 log: I loaded this into the GPS about a week ago, when geoJAWz's log was the last one shown. I really have to agree with their concerns. I'm an old time Geocacher and selective seeker of smalls and regulars, especially when visiting area's from out of town, which I was (I'm from New York). I totally wasn't expecting to be taken to a park that was basically a playground (i.e 6 foot 200 lb. 50 yr. old men like myself lurking around a playground), and a cache site 10 feet from someone's house!! But being as it was 1:00 PM on a random unusually cold Wednesday, I went for it anyways. Don't take that wrong or anything, just my own personal observation. You certainly went to town loading up this cache with swag! Thanks for placing it.

 

Someone's 5/10/2014 log: #934 - here from NJ visiting to VA Beach ....to be honest estate o agree with Mr Yuck 's assessment on both counts...my wife was in the car and upon me finding this cache, she said I looked like a pedophile roaming around... (there were 3 little kids and 2 adults at the gazebo)....around so there was a woman on the back deck of the house that was 10 feet away. So i felt funny all around.... I did like the container though and thank God it was easy to spot....SL, TFTC.

 

Archived by the owner 2 days later, 5/12/2014. The cache in question.

[+T.D.M.22]

Those places that ban adults in the parks, well that's local laws, which always take priority of getting the smiley. As for the no adults- well again, you don't have to find every cache. And you do have to be an adult. Is the smiley worth a night or weekend in jail? It's risk VS reward. It's no different than the cache requiring climbing a rock face, or a 2 day hike. Do I want to go into the playground and get arrested? Do I want to go on the mountain and fall off the rock face? Do I want to risk being attacked by the bear? As an adult I have to, and am capable of making those decisions.

Edited May 27, 2014 by T.D.M.22

[+Team Microdot]

In the UK, the reviewing team won't (knowingly) publish a cache in or close to a children's playground.

 

That's not my experience.

 

Our local reviewer does it quite often.

[+JBnW]

We taught our son how to geocache, and he loves it when we have to sit back and let him make the find. Otherwise, if he's not able to be with us, I'll ignore them and likely not return.

[+wimseyguy]

Or we could just ban all stupid cachers?

 

Look, I'm a 50something man who often caches alone. If I see that GZ is in a playground and that playground is being used for its primary purpose I will walk away and find another cache. But if it's empty of tots and moms there's no reason why I cannot find it.

Same thought process goes for a cemetery or any other public space. If there are mourners present I will skip it and return another time.

But I will admit to not caring if anyone sees me in a parking lot.

[+Beach_hut]

In the UK, the reviewing team won't (knowingly) publish a cache in or close to a children's playground.

 

That's not my experience.

 

Our local reviewer does it quite often.

 

Knowingly? Do you know what information was passed on between reviewer and CO at time of publication? If the CO didn't mention it, and it's not obvious from a map, the reviewer might not know.

 

I've seen one disabled by a reviewer in the last few months for that very reason.

[+The A-Team]

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception. Groundspeak doesn't want the potential for negative perceptions of the game by having strange people hang around school properties, potential terrorist targets, and other sensitive locations. Personally, I feel playgrounds fit in perfectly with all of the other locations listed in the guideline.

 

For those of you arguing in favour of allowing playground caches and just choosing an appropriate time to hunt for the cache, I ask you, couldn't that exact argument apply to school-proximity caches as well? Groundspeak has already deemed that this argument doesn't apply to school-proximity caches by prohibiting them, so I don't see why playground caches should be any different. They're public property like the schools (usually), they're a location where there are kids at certain times of day, they're a location where a strange person hanging around will often draw negative attention. What's so different about a playground that makes it so much more acceptable as a caching location? Really, I'd like to hear the answers to that. I'm genuinely curious what the opinions are about how a playground differs from the other sensitive locations in the guideline. Maybe it's even a regional thing? There have been high-profile child abductions from playgrounds in my region, so maybe there's a different perception of strangers around playgrounds in these parts.

 

Thankfully, there aren't many such caches in my area, so I don't have to worry too much. I also now have a nephew and niece, so I can always take them if I need some justification for being at a playground to find a cache.

Edited May 27, 2014 by The A-Team

[+Ambrosia]

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception. Groundspeak doesn't want the potential for negative perceptions of the game by having strange people hang around school properties, potential terrorist targets, and other sensitive locations. Personally, I feel playgrounds fit in perfectly with all of the other locations listed in the guideline.

 

For those of you arguing in favour of allowing playground caches and just choosing an appropriate time to hunt for the cache, I ask you, couldn't that exact argument apply to school-proximity caches as well? Groundspeak has already deemed that this argument doesn't apply to school-proximity caches by prohibiting them, so I don't see why playground caches should be any different. They're public property like the schools (usually), they're a location where there are kids at certain times of day, they're a location where a strange person hanging around will often draw negative attention. What's so different about a playground that makes it so much more acceptable as a caching location? Really, I'd like to hear the answers to that. I'm genuinely curious what the opinions are about how a playground differs from the other sensitive locations in the guideline. Maybe it's even a regional thing? There have been high-profile child abductions from playgrounds in my region, so maybe there's a different perception of strangers around playgrounds in these parts.

 

Thankfully, there aren't many such caches in my area, so I don't have to worry too much. I also now have a nephew and niece, so I can always take them if I need some justification for being at a playground to find a cache.

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

[+The A-Team]

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

Okay, as a mother of two, and assuming you knew nothing about geocaching, would you have any concerns if a strange, middle-aged man with a smartphone was digging around in bushes beside a playground where your children were playing? Based on your post, can I assume you wouldn't have any problem with it? I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just trying to determine how people perceive strangers around playgrounds.

[+Ambrosia]

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

Okay, as a mother of two, and assuming you knew nothing about geocaching, would you have any concerns if a strange, middle-aged man with a smartphone was digging around in bushes beside a playground where your children were playing? Based on your post, can I assume you wouldn't have any problem with it? I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just trying to determine how people perceive strangers around playgrounds.

I've always been the pragmatic sort. I know that an extremely small percentage of kidnappings are by strangers (something like 3%?). I might keep an eye on the man, but that's it. I've always stayed where I can clearly see my children, so I never worried. I'd be more watchful and worried about family friends, cousins, uncles, etc. That's where the real danger lies.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Those places that ban adults in the parks, well that's local laws, which always take priority of getting the smiley.

 

Of course. Geocachers would never violate local laws, even if it means not getting the smiley.

 

 

[+geodarts]

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

 

Some are open to the public, others are only open to adults if their child is there. I am not sure that this should make a difference in whether a playground cache can be listed through Groundspeak, but it certainly should be noted on the cache page. Back in the day when I used to search for almost anything, I would occasionally come across caches placed in restricted playgrounds, but never saw it mentioned.

 

Permission is my main problem with playground hides. Simply identifying a playground as a public space does not mean that it has "adequate" permission. If I were a land manager, I would want to know if there was a cache in a playground and consider whether I wanted to deal with potential problems it may cause. So I think the only way to obtain adequate permission under these circumstances is to have express permission (but I feel the same way about lamp posts in private parking lots).

 

As a father of one and stepfather of two, I was never nervous about adults in the playground, particularly if they were using the equipment. Who does not like to take a good swing now and then? But there are enough people out who will report "suspicious activity" at playgrounds so that I would want to err on the side of caution and at least make sure I had express permission before placing a container there.

Edited May 27, 2014 by geodarts

[+Ambrosia]

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

 

Some are open to the public, others are only open to adults if their child is there. I am not sure that this should make a difference in whether a playground cache can be listed through Groundspeak, but it certainly should be noted on the cache page. Back in the day when I used to search for almost anything, I would occasionally come across caches placed in restricted playgrounds, but never saw it mentioned.

 

Permission is my main problem with playground hides. Simply identifying a playground as a public space does not mean that it has "adequate" permission. If I were a land manager, I would want to know if there was a cache in a playground and consider whether I wanted to deal with potential problems it may cause. So I think the only way to obtain adequate permission under these circumstances is to have express permission (but I feel the same way about lamp posts in private parking lots).

 

As a father of one and stepfather of two, I was never nervous about adults in the playground, particularly if they were using the equipment. Who does not like to take a good swing now and then? But there are enough people out who will report "suspicious activity" at playgrounds so that I would want to err on the side of caution and at least make sure I had express permission before placing a container there.

I do understand that a lot of parents get nervous, and I'm sure that land managers could. Doesn't stop me being unhappy about it.

[team tisri]

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

Okay, as a mother of two, and assuming you knew nothing about geocaching, would you have any concerns if a strange, middle-aged man with a smartphone was digging around in bushes beside a playground where your children were playing? Based on your post, can I assume you wouldn't have any problem with it? I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just trying to determine how people perceive strangers around playgrounds.

 

Where do we stop with the silly suspicions of what someone is doing in a public place?

 

If a strange man was watching children closely it might be cause for concern. If the man is minding his own business and happens to be near a playground, what of it? Do we really have to tolerate this assumption that men without children must be paedophiles and assume they are up to no good? If someone really gets their kicks from watching fully clothed children playing then they're going to find fully clothed children to watch in all sorts of places. Should we ban them from shopping malls in case they get to see some children there?

[Mr.Yuck]

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception. Groundspeak doesn't want the potential for negative perceptions of the game by having strange people hang around school properties, potential terrorist targets, and other sensitive locations. Personally, I feel playgrounds fit in perfectly with all of the other locations listed in the guideline.

 

For those of you arguing in favour of allowing playground caches and just choosing an appropriate time to hunt for the cache, I ask you, couldn't that exact argument apply to school-proximity caches as well? Groundspeak has already deemed that this argument doesn't apply to school-proximity caches by prohibiting them, so I don't see why playground caches should be any different. They're public property like the schools (usually), they're a location where there are kids at certain times of day, they're a location where a strange person hanging around will often draw negative attention. What's so different about a playground that makes it so much more acceptable as a caching location? Really, I'd like to hear the answers to that. I'm genuinely curious what the opinions are about how a playground differs from the other sensitive locations in the guideline. Maybe it's even a regional thing? There have been high-profile child abductions from playgrounds in my region, so maybe there's a different perception of strangers around playgrounds in these parts.

 

Thankfully, there aren't many such caches in my area, so I don't have to worry too much. I also now have a nephew and niece, so I can always take them if I need some justification for being at a playground to find a cache.

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

 

Ambrosia, try to look at it from the perspective of a 6' 200 lb. 51 year old man. I've been variously described over the years as "mean looking", or maybe "serious looking" if they're being nice. You want an example? I've got an example. If looks could kill.

 

By the way, I'm not advocating banning playground caches. Just advocating people like me NOT creeping around on playgrounds.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+Ambrosia]

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception. Groundspeak doesn't want the potential for negative perceptions of the game by having strange people hang around school properties, potential terrorist targets, and other sensitive locations. Personally, I feel playgrounds fit in perfectly with all of the other locations listed in the guideline.

 

For those of you arguing in favour of allowing playground caches and just choosing an appropriate time to hunt for the cache, I ask you, couldn't that exact argument apply to school-proximity caches as well? Groundspeak has already deemed that this argument doesn't apply to school-proximity caches by prohibiting them, so I don't see why playground caches should be any different. They're public property like the schools (usually), they're a location where there are kids at certain times of day, they're a location where a strange person hanging around will often draw negative attention. What's so different about a playground that makes it so much more acceptable as a caching location? Really, I'd like to hear the answers to that. I'm genuinely curious what the opinions are about how a playground differs from the other sensitive locations in the guideline. Maybe it's even a regional thing? There have been high-profile child abductions from playgrounds in my region, so maybe there's a different perception of strangers around playgrounds in these parts.

 

Thankfully, there aren't many such caches in my area, so I don't have to worry too much. I also now have a nephew and niece, so I can always take them if I need some justification for being at a playground to find a cache.

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

 

Ambrosia, try to look at it from the perspective of a 6' 200 lb. 51 year old man. I've been variously described over the years as "mean looking", or maybe "serious looking" if they're being nice. You want an example? I've got an example. If looks could kill.

 

By the way, I'm not advocating banning playground caches. Just advocating people like me NOT creeping around on playgrounds.

Lol, you look fine.

 

I still contend that a man poking around in the bushes with a gps doesn't look like someone who is about to steal a kid. But I guess I'm not normal.

[+Manville Possum]

As for the whole playground thing. I don't know where you live, but here most are either in public parks, which I have just as much right to cache in as the kids have to swing. Or they are on school grounds which usually are not allowed to have caches per Groundspeak guidines.

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception. Groundspeak doesn't want the potential for negative perceptions of the game by having strange people hang around school properties, potential terrorist targets, and other sensitive locations. Personally, I feel playgrounds fit in perfectly with all of the other locations listed in the guideline.

 

For those of you arguing in favour of allowing playground caches and just choosing an appropriate time to hunt for the cache, I ask you, couldn't that exact argument apply to school-proximity caches as well? Groundspeak has already deemed that this argument doesn't apply to school-proximity caches by prohibiting them, so I don't see why playground caches should be any different. They're public property like the schools (usually), they're a location where there are kids at certain times of day, they're a location where a strange person hanging around will often draw negative attention. What's so different about a playground that makes it so much more acceptable as a caching location? Really, I'd like to hear the answers to that. I'm genuinely curious what the opinions are about how a playground differs from the other sensitive locations in the guideline. Maybe it's even a regional thing? There have been high-profile child abductions from playgrounds in my region, so maybe there's a different perception of strangers around playgrounds in these parts.

 

Thankfully, there aren't many such caches in my area, so I don't have to worry too much. I also now have a nephew and niece, so I can always take them if I need some justification for being at a playground to find a cache.

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

 

Ambrosia, try to look at it from the perspective of a 6' 200 lb. 51 year old man. I've been variously described over the years as "mean looking", or maybe "serious looking" if they're being nice. You want an example? I've got an example. If looks could kill.

 

By the way, I'm not advocating banning playground caches. Just advocating people like me NOT creeping around on playgrounds.

I'm not as nice looking as you, and my kids are teenagers and young adults now, so no more kiddy caches for me either.

[+Ambrosia]

Hey, I guess I could be called ok looking, and on the youngish side, and am a woman and I still get glares. I don't understand it. Everyone's so suspicious! I think they're weird. And this comes from a suspicious type person. But I'm also a realist, and know that most people are normal and that it's healthier for me to just live my life without worrying constantly.

[+Panther&Pine]

Hey, I guess I could be called ok looking, and on the youngish side, and am a woman and I still get glares. I don't understand it. Everyone's so suspicious! I think they're weird. And this comes from a suspicious type person. But I'm also a realist, and know that most people are normal and that it's healthier for me to just live my life without worrying constantly.

And then there is the point that most child abductions are by a person who knows the child, same with abuse. Statistically speaking a stranger isn't going to harm your child. But STRANGER DANGER has a much better ring to it than BEWARE OF THOSE YOU KNOW.

[+Ambrosia]

Hey, I guess I could be called ok looking, and on the youngish side, and am a woman and I still get glares. I don't understand it. Everyone's so suspicious! I think they're weird. And this comes from a suspicious type person. But I'm also a realist, and know that most people are normal and that it's healthier for me to just live my life without worrying constantly.

And then there is the point that most child abductions are by a person who knows the child, same with abuse. Statistically speaking a stranger isn't going to harm your child. But STRANGER DANGER has a much better ring to it than BEWARE OF THOSE YOU KNOW.

They should really come up with a better catch phrase.

[4wheelin_fool]

Someone acting suspicious on school property is likely to create much more mayhem than on a public playground.

 

I dont like those hides, but im not a big fan of a broad and simple ban of something to protect others. It implies that cachers are not that smart, cannot be trusted to use discretion, and are unable to walk away from them. Of course if someone proves this to be true, then perhaps they should be banned.

[+WarNinjas]

I don't agree they should be banned but I much prefer them to be hidden away from the play structures. I am OK with being the crazy guy off to the side of the park looking for something then walking up to where kids might be playing. If they are there though I don't go look for them if there is anyone around.

 

I once had a problem (non geocaching) for parents thinking I was a creeper. My daughter don't live in my town and she started in a new cheer leading group. I had to take her to practice and it was in a park kind of situation but more of a closed off park. I dropped her off and it was kind of early and I didn't know anyone there. I decided to go sit off to the side and was just playing on my phone occasionally looking over to make sure where she was and that she was OK. I guess some parent noticed me hanging out and probably occasionally looking over at the girls. They came up and wanted to know who I was and if I had a kid there. I told them my daughters name and they went and asked her and came back and apologized. I was glad they were concerned as I wouldn't want a creeper there looking at my daughter but for the rest of the time I kind of felt uncomfortable there. Even after her mom came and we were all hanging out watching them practice. Little did they all know I would have much rather been out geocaching then hanging out watching some kids cheer lead.

[+tozainamboku]

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception.

I call this the 9/11 guideline. Is is clearly meant that areas where a unknown container is likely to be suspicious are not good places to hide caches. Of course it can be apply to the actions of people searching for the cache appearing suspicious as well, but my guess is that is more of an after thought.

 

What we have learned is that it is not only in these so called sensitive location where people phone in bomb threats or complain of suspicious looking characters. I don't think the idea is to ban all placement of geocaches, just to think about the potential for there being an issue and trying to find places where the risks involve in cache placement are reduced.

 

It certainly isn't clear if playgrounds are as risky as some people make them out to be. Some helicopter parents may obsess seeing a strange man near the playground but what are they really going to do. If they ask you to leave you probably will just leave (though certainly you're within your rights to say you're doing nothing wrong). If they call the police, the officer may tell you that just to make the worried parents feel safe, adults without children should leave. Unless you're already required to register as a sex offender you're not going to be arrested for being at playground. Of course visiting when there are no children around and you avoid even that problem.

 

We had some weirdo who left razor blades and other sharp objects at several playgrounds a few years back, so I suppose there could be some concerned if someone sees an adult hanging around at a playground after dark. Once again, if the police (or neighborhood vigilantes) arrive before you've found the cache and left, you can explain what you were doing. Even if someone caught your license plates, when the police come to question you, you have a pretty good reason for being in the park.

 

One of my all time favorite caches was on playground equipment. While most people went for it late in the day or waited for a rainy day when no one was around, I looked for it on a Sunday afternoon when the park was crowded with children and their parents. I walked around the target apparatus looking for the cache. I suppose someone might have thought I was trying to look up little girls dresses (even though all the children, boys and girls, were wearing short pants). I decided that if asked, I would say one of the children in the tower was my grandson. When I finally spotted the cache, I had to wait until the tower was empty. Then I made my move. But when I climbed to the cache, I saw it saw an electrical faceplate (this was the first electric faceplate cache I had ever found), so I went back down to keep looking. That's when it occured to me that this was the cache, so I raced back up to get it. A mom was in the tower now with her small child. She grabbed the child as she saw me coming up the stairs. But I never even got close to them. I stop at the cache and signed the log and quickly descended. Perhaps not everyone likes that kind of excitement. Perhaps that's the point. Not everyone will find the cache at the edge of the cliff or the ones that require scuba diving. The risks of finding a cache on playground equipment are pretty minimal compared to some other caches I've found.

[+T.D.M.22]

Someone acting suspicious on school property is likely to create much more mayhem than on a public playground.

 

I dont like those hides, but im not a big fan of a broad and simple ban of something to protect others. It implies that cachers are not that smart, cannot be trusted to use discretion, and are unable to walk away from them. Of course if someone proves this to be true, then perhaps they should be banned.

 

Well judging by all the "I don't like/agree with multis/puzzle/whatever so they should get rid of them" threads, that people really can't walk away...

[+Mudfrog]

Playgrounds are in public parks, open to the public. In my opinion, parents don't have the right to expect "privacy". If you don't like people hanging around, stay in your backyard.

 

Sorry, but this gets my dander up. And I'm saying this as a mother of two.

Okay, as a mother of two, and assuming you knew nothing about geocaching, would you have any concerns if a strange, middle-aged man with a smartphone was digging around in bushes beside a playground where your children were playing? Based on your post, can I assume you wouldn't have any problem with it? I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just trying to determine how people perceive strangers around playgrounds.

 

You come across as someone who is a bit paranoid. Of course i, or my wife, would make note of someone digging around in the bushes at a public park. However, neither of us would become overly concerned unless that person ended up getting too close to our child. I'd definitely watch more closely and probably intervene if that ever happened.

[+dprovan]

I still contend that a man poking around in the bushes with a gps doesn't look like someone who is about to steal a kid.

And if anyone's worried about a parent thinking otherwise, they can just start by explaining to the parents what they're doing.

[+The_Incredibles_]

As a parent, I'm not too worried if I see a guy rummaging around in the bushes near a playground. I'd assume he'd be looking for beer cans or maybe a lost ball. It's not like he was standing there staring at my children.

 

What really creeps me out is when elderly people sit down on a bench next to the playground and watch your kids like it's t.v., making comments and pointing.

 

As a parent, I kind of enjoy playground caches because it gives me something to do while the kids play. I own 3 caches near playgrounds. 2 of them are across a field from the playground, so they shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable, but families can still go hunt for them. The other cache requires you to count parts of the playground equipment. It is specifically geared towards families (although it's mostly adults that find it). I have a warning on the cache page about it, telling people they may want to collect their numbers in the early morning or late at night.

 

I'm not sure I'd be bothered if I saw someone coming up and recording numbers from the playground equipment while my kids played. I probably would think he was working for the city. If he was eying my kids, that would be another matter.

 

Like others have mentioned, stranger abduction is so rare it's hardly worth worrying about. Yes, of course, I make sure I know where my kids are at all times. But, really, it's abuse by friends and family that is the major concern.

[+Ambrosia]

What really creeps me out is when elderly people sit down on a bench next to the playground and watch your kids like it's t.v., making comments and pointing.

Aw, I'm sure it just makes them feel younger watching kids play. May even remind them of their kids or grandkids. It's healthier than tv.

[DannyCaffeine]

It just seems like something that the kids would probably find and destroy. That and for us geocaching fellas we would look creepy climbing on kids jungle gyms.

[cezanne]

What really creeps me out is when elderly people sit down on a bench next to the playground and watch your kids like it's t.v., making comments and pointing.

 

I need to admit that I have watched children playing on playgrounds more than once, but I did not make comments and did not point. In most cases I was alone anyway.

There was definitely nothing creepy behind what I did and it was not a replacement for TV. I'm simply from time to time drawn to watch how children use the equipment and

how they move around and achieve things and make experiences I do not know from my own childhood. When noone is around who could be worried and no damage can be caused, it might

even be possible that I try out some equipment (on playgrounds with no age restrictions) - for example balancing along a rope or from tree stump to tree stump (artificially placed and within small distances from each other so that even I manage to succeed sometimes). I visited a playground at times when no children were around much more often in order to use the equipment than to collect some data required for a cache

or search for a cache.

 

Not everyone has own children or children in the closer family. If a parent asked me why I watch their children, I would readily be willing to provide

an explanation. I cannot see anything bad about what I'm doing. In fact, it's not even really the children that I'm watching, it's their activities on the playground. I would not follow them

to any other location and would not watch them elsewhere.

[team tisri]

I'll quote the relevant guideline:

A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true...

...

4.The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

Note that the guideline doesn't actually prohibit caches on school property, but rather caches in proximity to schools. This covers both caches on the school property and nearby. Toz always laments that the rationale behind the guidelines hasn't been published, but I think it's pretty clear what the rationale is behind the above guideline: perception.

I call this the 9/11 guideline. Is is clearly meant that areas where a unknown container is likely to be suspicious are not good places to hide caches. Of course it can be apply to the actions of people searching for the cache appearing suspicious as well, but my guess is that is more of an after thought.

 

What we have learned is that it is not only in these so called sensitive location where people phone in bomb threats or complain of suspicious looking characters. I don't think the idea is to ban all placement of geocaches, just to think about the potential for there being an issue and trying to find places where the risks involve in cache placement are reduced.

 

It certainly isn't clear if playgrounds are as risky as some people make them out to be. Some helicopter parents may obsess seeing a strange man near the playground but what are they really going to do. If they ask you to leave you probably will just leave (though certainly you're within your rights to say you're doing nothing wrong). If they call the police, the officer may tell you that just to make the worried parents feel safe, adults without children should leave. Unless you're already required to register as a sex offender you're not going to be arrested for being at playground. Of course visiting when there are no children around and you avoid even that problem.

 

This sort of thing just perpetuates the problem. A couple of parents decide someone who is doing nothing wrong and merely enjoying a public place is a threat, call the police, and the perfectly innocent person is expected to leave "to make people feel safe". It would be better if the police were to explain that being in a public place isn't a crime and if they dislike other users of the public place they should take their children elsewhere.

 

I still struggle with the mentality that someone watching children play in a playground is dangerous. Someone who is truly seeking to abduct a child is likely to seek an area where the parents aren't paying attention, and the people who make the news headlines when they are arrested for accessing child pornography are unlikely to be interested in children who are fully clothed. If anyone is truly aroused by children who are fully clothed is going to be able to get their kicks anywhere from the playground to the shopping mall, and it's clearly impractical to ban adults from anywhere children might be present "just in case".

[+DanOCan]

I'll bypass these types of caches if kids are around, simply because I don't feel like taking the time to ask the cops which law I am breaking by being present in a public space.

 

People need to be less paranoid. Just because I am a man does not immediately make me a threat to your children. If you swapped out the word "man" with any other descriptive adjective, we'd have the ACLU and every other special interest group running national campaigns to "raise awareness".

[+CanadianRockies]

I still struggle with the mentality that someone watching children play in a playground is dangerous.

I'm old enough to remember the days (at least in non-urban areas) when watching children play wasn't a big deal. When a couple of them came over and started chatting with you, it didn't make anyone nervous. If a parent was even around, they might stop by just to check that the kids weren't annoying you.

 

Now, people are so nervous of bad perceptions that they won't even approach a 6ish-year-old girl who is wandering around a busy park crying about having lost her mommy.

[gpsblake]

It's common sense to me.

 

If you are a male without a child, you don't go looking for caches near playground equipment when children are around, it's that simple.

 

Instead change your tactic and look for it at a time when no children are around. Early morning, hot or cold weather, stuff like that.

 

And if questioned by another parent or the police, be up front honest what you are doing.