Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4
JPreto

Throwdowns

Recommended Posts

Let´s face it... It´s something that really irks me when someone places a Throwdown (TD)!!!! :mad:

 

Groundspeak talks about TD here:

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

 

And many topics referring customs or ideas for TDs:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=321211

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=318643

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=316489

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=291672

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=300956

 

And one of the best topics about TDs:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=313893

 

But after reading a lot on the forum and some logs I found that some people actually have pleasure in placing a TD and also finding double caches. Soooooo....

 

Isn´t this game all about having fun? :huh:

 

 

PS: If you have more cool Topics about TDs please give me the link and I´ll edit and place it here!!!!

Edited by JPreto

Share this post


Link to post

Throwdowns show the cacher who did it is more interested in a :) than in following the rules of the game. As one who has never placed a throwdown, nor had one placed at one of my cache locations, I see those who do it a lesser players of the game, cheaters.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure I've posted it before, but I recently logged a find on the "correct" original container after someone put in a throwdown rather than log a DNF. I saw the throwdown as more of a challenge to me to find the original and I had no problem calling him out on it.

 

He still got the smilie, though...

 

http://coord.info/GLD5TD19

Share this post


Link to post

People who place a throwdown on an abandoned cache are no better then the cache owner in terms of responsibility. What they should do for the community and the betterment of this activity is place a Needs Maintenance on the cache or an Needs Archive if there's already an NM and no response from the CO. Often people who do this, insist that they're doing it for the community. Hmmmm, yet they always claim a find on a cache they placed, and they never go back to maintain what they left.

Share this post


Link to post

Bad... Really bad.

 

It keep the vacation caches alive when it should just die!

 

I remember you awhile back. <_<

Edited by SwineFlew

Share this post


Link to post

I have no problem with " replacement caches " but I am in a small minority ( of 1 ? :) )

As you say it should be a fun game and I'd rather see two caches at GZ than none. I don't care if a CO hasn't logged on in 50 years...a replacement may stay in play and be found by dozens of cachers over a period of years instead of nothing there for anybody to find. I think only 1-1 1/2 diff. with good hints should be replaced so you can be 99% sure they're gone.....also a replacement should be a good water tight container.

Share this post


Link to post

I saw this in another thread (on Challenge caches) but think it applies here.

Recently I have had a pair of new cachers send me several emails and posted a few notes on a puzzle that was missing. Since they solved it and visited ground zero they insist that I should award them with a "find". I tried explaining to them that a find is not a reward, but a statement of fact. However they are unable to comprehend this. Personally, I have a pretty liberal definition of a find, which means that you don't necessarily have to sign it , but at least have to touch the container, or at least a piece of it. I also don't do audits or log deletions anyway, in the event of a fake find anyhow. But somehow, they still wanted me to award them with a "find" , and post it "with permission of the CO".

 

This "awarding finds" mentality is officially reinforced from Challenges. We already have COs awarding FTFs and other nonsense for various reasons. After they have had several other COs do this for them, I was expected to do the same. They believe that I "entered into an agreement" by placing the cache, and if it wasn't there, then they deserve the "find" award, since I was unable uphold my end of the agreement. Never mind that a little kid took it home only a few days before, after finding it while hiding easter eggs. No, I am not kidding. If someone finds a puzzle, they don't have to prove they solved it, and I don't see why people who find Challenges have to prove anything either.

 

I've had a similar experience with a throwdown. A group of cachers couldn't find one of my caches and as the previously log from nearly a year before was also a DNF, they decided to help me out by leaving a replacement. When one of the cacher (who seems to have been given the task by the rest of the group) emailed me to ask if they could log the cache aa found, I replied that I didn't ask for them to replace the cache and didn't think you should replace a cache without prior permission from the owner, but if they wanted to log a find I wouldn't delete it.

 

The response back came thick with indignation that I thought they were leaving the throwdown just so they could get a smiley. She pointed to several other caches they'd logged as DNF'd that day and left no throwdown. Instead I was accused of being the one who was misguided in my understanding of geocaching. I was told this is a simple, fun game; a lot more fun when there is a cache to find than when the cache is missing. I was told that every other cache owner of whom they had ever made a request to log a replacement cache was more more than happy to allow this and, more importantly, was appreciative for the help with maintenance. She really made me feel like a mean, grumpy, misguided, and puritanical fool who just wanted to keep others from enjoying geocahing.

 

After my response the entire group decided to all log DNF and to post a needs archive log as their 5 DNFs along with one from a year before was proof the cache was not there and hadn't been maintaind. I archived the cache, because it wasn't worth the hassle anymore.

 

My main objection to throwdowns is that I see DNF as part of geocaching. A DNF can be just as much fun as finding the cache if you take the right attitude. I disagree that leaving a replacement for a potentially missing cache is doing anyone a favor, including subsequent seekers who may now have something (maybe two things) to find. Subsequent seekers can decide to search for a cache with several DNFs or not. If they DNF the cache, I hope they will have enjoyed being brough to ground zero and making a go at searching. Certainly posting a NM or NA after searching for cache that hasn't been found in a while is legitimate.

 

My second objection is that throwndowns make a statement that caches are generic. Any cache can be replaced by one of the Altoids tin or 32mm film cans you carry in your backpack for this purpose. I always take time when hiding a cache to find a particular hiding spot, and I try to select a container approriate for the kind of hide I am doing. When the replacement someone leaves is a 35mm film can under a pile of rocks, they haven't replaced the cache that I had hidden. This idea that a find is a find and that a generic throwdown is a suitable replacement for any potentially missing cache is a very different view of geocaching than I have.

Share this post


Link to post

Throwdowns are bad for a number of reasons.

 

I try to put some thought into my caches. The container i use, is the container i want you to find. The spot i choose to hide the container in, is the spot i want the finder to find it in. I do not want throwdowns placed at any of my caches.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some people claim that they find a cache even when they don't find anything. Why they think placing a throwdown gives them that right is beyond me. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post

I have no problem with " replacement caches " but I am in a small minority ( of 1 ? :) )

As you say it should be a fun game and I'd rather see two caches at GZ than none. I don't care if a CO hasn't logged on in 50 years...a replacement may stay in play and be found by dozens of cachers over a period of years instead of nothing there for anybody to find. I think only 1-1 1/2 diff. with good hints should be replaced so you can be 99% sure they're gone.....also a replacement should be a good water tight container.

I have no issue with replacing a bad container with a good one. But placing a new container when you can't find the original is not a replacement, it a lame grab for a :)

Share this post


Link to post

I removed a throwdown from one of my cache locations recently. It wasn't even a container. You know: "We think the cache was muggled... we had no container at hand... put a piece of paper wrapped in a plastic bag... enjoy!"

 

It's simple, actually. Drop a message to CO or call him by phone.

Share this post


Link to post

You know if someone admits to leaving a throwdown, I'd say you can delete their find. They are admitting they didn't find your cache after all...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

If you can't find it log a DNF. Don't pretend you are doing the community a favor just because you refuse to walk away without a smiley. I've had to make special maintenance trips just to remove throwdowns and without exception the original cache was right were I hid it. The throwdowners weren't doing me any favors.

 

When you throw down a cache you usually:

 

1. don't know for sure that the original is missing

2. don't know how and where the original was hidden

3. don't use the same size and/or quality container as the original (they always seem to be crappy prescription pill bottles).

4. don't know if the CO even wants the cache replaced

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

If you can't find it log a DNF. Don't pretend you are doing the community a favor just because you refuse to walk away without a smiley.

+1

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think most of the time, like 95%, they are bad.

 

However, I think during certain circumstances, may be helpful. For example, let's say you're caching and you come to a cache with is obviously missing, for instance, with an easy hint and a bunch of DNFs. Let's say you know the cache owner and they are having health troubles right now. Although I would generally email them to ask ahead of time, if I hadn't planned ahead like that, I might leave a replacement if I had one with me.

Share this post


Link to post

I think most of the time, like 95%, they are bad.

 

However, I think during certain circumstances, may be helpful. For example, let's say you're caching and you come to a cache with is obviously missing, for instance, with an easy hint and a bunch of DNFs. Let's say you know the cache owner and they are having health troubles right now. Although I would generally email them to ask ahead of time, if I hadn't planned ahead like that, I might leave a replacement if I had one with me.

Wow! That's so twisted and convoluted. One millionth of a percent?

 

A throw down is a lie by someone unwilling to accept that he or she did not actually find the cache. But was unwilling to leave without a smiley.

Share this post


Link to post

We had one once on a (no longer allowed) multi-like puzzle/mystery series.

Throwdown right in the middle. Don't know what he was thinking. Weird.

- Numbskull didn't complain when we deleted the remaining finds too (no sigs).

Can't find 'em without the coords to the next...

Placement was odd too. The cache hint, "No need to leave the trail" (packed bike trail) doesn't quite seem the same as the throwdown 10' into the woods.

 

Seems most our throwdowns are people who've found 'em already and now bringing a newbie.

Can't find it, "replaced". Logs like, "There ya go! You're welcome!".

- Nope. It was moved a year after you found it.

If you used your GPS to look, you woulda known that...

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks so much for all the fast answers!

 

I love geocaching, it makes me travel around and visit places otherwise I would never gone to.

 

By the few, but persistent, majority of the posts it is clear that Throwdowns are not a good thing, even when you are having fun, that´s why it irks me so much!

 

I really thing, that even in a Power Trail, putting up a Throwdown is lame and not complying with the game rules, how can you say "FOUND IT" on something you just placed?

 

But what can a geocacher do if he sees a Throwdown accepted by the cache owner because he is lazy or the cache is far away from his geocaching grounds? What if I find, several times, two geocaches in the same place, after a Owner Maintenance, because the CO accepts Throwdowns but then he can´t find them?

 

Here in Brazil I´m having a big problem with this, please help me with your opinions!

 

Thank you soo much!

Edited by JPreto

Share this post


Link to post

I have no problem with " replacement caches " but I am in a small minority ( of 1 ? :) )

As you say it should be a fun game and I'd rather see two caches at GZ than none. I don't care if a CO hasn't logged on in 50 years...a replacement may stay in play and be found by dozens of cachers over a period of years instead of nothing there for anybody to find. I think only 1-1 1/2 diff. with good hints should be replaced so you can be 99% sure they're gone.....also a replacement should be a good water tight container.

 

Here's a radical idea. Log an NA and once the listing is archived, place your own cache and maintain it. That way there'll be something there for others to find and it'll be taken care of by an active owner.

Share this post


Link to post

I have no problem with " replacement caches " but I am in a small minority ( of 1 ? :) )

As you say it should be a fun game and I'd rather see two caches at GZ than none. I don't care if a CO hasn't logged on in 50 years...a replacement may stay in play and be found by dozens of cachers over a period of years instead of nothing there for anybody to find. I think only 1-1 1/2 diff. with good hints should be replaced so you can be 99% sure they're gone.....also a replacement should be a good water tight container.

 

Here's a radical idea. Log an NA and once the listing is archived, place your own cache and maintain it. That way there'll be something there for others to find and it'll be taken care of by an active owner.

 

Yep, promoting more unmaintained caches doesn't benefit the community. If the cache is gone and the owner is MIA, time to archive and if the area is so great let a responsible cache owner place a cache there. Logging a DNF isn't so bad, or at least it shouldn't be. If you feel you are wasting your time if you don't find a cache then perhaps you're looking for the wrong type of caches.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks so much for all the fast answers!

 

I love geocaching, it makes me travel around and visit places otherwise I would never gone to.

 

By the few, but persistent, majority of the posts it is clear that Throwdowns are not a good thing, even when you are having fun, that´s why it irks me so much!

 

I really thing, that even in a Power Trail, putting up a Throwdown is lame and not complying with the game rules, how can you say "FOUND IT" on something you just placed?

 

But what can a geocacher do if he sees a Throwdown accepted by the cache owner because he is lazy or the cache is far away from his geocaching grounds? What if I find, several times, two geocaches in the same place, after a Owner Maintenance, because the CO accepts Throwdowns but then he can´t find them?

 

Here in Brazil I´m having a big problem with this, please help me with your opinions!

 

Thank you soo much!

I really don't understand. I looked at your account and saw over 100 copy/paste bike route caches. :blink: It sure looks like a urban power trail that would welcome throwdowns. :unsure: I had a past finder leave a throwdown/replacement at one of my cache sites last week, and I thought it was nice because I would have had to make a 50 mile round trip to replace the missing cache. Many of my listings are archived due to DNF's logged on the listings. If I'm no longer interested in maintaining the cache, and it has a few DNF's it makes sense to me to archive it. B)

Share this post


Link to post
second objection is that throwndowns make a statement that caches are generic. Any cache can be replaced by one of the Altoids tin or 32mm film cans you carry in your backpack for this purpose. I always take time when hiding a cache to find a particular hiding spot, and I try to select a container approriate for the kind of hide I am doing. When the replacement someone leaves is a 35mm film can under a pile of rocks, they haven't replaced the cache that I had hidden. This idea that a find is a find and that a generic throwdown is a suitable replacement for any potentially missing cache is a very different view of geocaching than I have.

 

I suppose a lot would depend on the missing cache and the throwdown cache, although in principle I'd be against replacing a cache without the owner's permission.

 

If the cache is a film pot in the V of a tree, there's only one tree matching the description within 100 yards of the coordinates, and there's no cache in the V, then putting another film pot out doesn't seem like such a big deal. It was a cache much like that I found a couple of years back where the owner (who I'd emailed to make sure I'd solved their puzzle correctly before cycling that way) said he couldn't be sure it was still there and invited me to take a replacement cache so I could replace it and claim the find if it wasn't in the obvious spot.

 

If the cache is an ammo can then a film pot isn't a replacement. If the cache size is "regular", the text refers to an ammo can, and people log signatures on a film pot, I think any owner would be entirely reasonable in deleting the logs. It's hard for anyone to claim they thought a film pot was a "regular" and if they took the time to even glance at the text they'd know they were looking for an ammo can.

Share this post


Link to post

It's hard for anyone to claim they thought a film pot was a "regular" and if they took the time to even glance at the text they'd know they were looking for an ammo can.

 

But if the CO replaces the ammo can with a film pot, and doesn't change the description... :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks so much for all the fast answers!

 

I love geocaching, it makes me travel around and visit places otherwise I would never gone to.

 

By the few, but persistent, majority of the posts it is clear that Throwdowns are not a good thing, even when you are having fun, that´s why it irks me so much!

 

I really thing, that even in a Power Trail, putting up a Throwdown is lame and not complying with the game rules, how can you say "FOUND IT" on something you just placed?

 

But what can a geocacher do if he sees a Throwdown accepted by the cache owner because he is lazy or the cache is far away from his geocaching grounds? What if I find, several times, two geocaches in the same place, after a Owner Maintenance, because the CO accepts Throwdowns but then he can´t find them?

 

Here in Brazil I´m having a big problem with this, please help me with your opinions!

 

Thank you soo much!

I really don't understand. I looked at your account and saw over 100 copy/paste bike route caches. :blink: It sure looks like a urban power trail that would welcome throwdowns. :unsure: I had a past finder leave a throwdown/replacement at one of my cache sites last week, and I thought it was nice because I would have had to make a 50 mile round trip to replace the missing cache. Many of my listings are archived due to DNF's logged on the listings. If I'm no longer interested in maintaining the cache, and it has a few DNF's it makes sense to me to archive it. B)

 

I'm not into power trails but i do admit to having a series along a bayou. About 30 caches out there at this time so it looks easy on a map. Of course it's not because of the boating that is required to get to them. The cache descriptions have some copy and paste but i'm not understanding why that would make it seem like i welcomed throwdowns.

 

Matter of fact, i had a cacher call me the other day saying they couldn't find one of those caches. There's no doubt she could have replaced it for me but honestly, even with me trying to tell her where it was hidden, we still couldn't be sure it wasn't in place. I'd rather take the yak out and check on it myself instead. Afterall, isn't this my responsibility anyway?

Share this post


Link to post

But after reading a lot on the forum and some logs I found that some people actually have pleasure in placing a TD and also finding double caches. Soooooo....

 

Isn´t this game all about having fun? :huh:

 

 

PS: If you have more cool Topics about TDs please give me the link and I´ll edit and place it here!!!!

 

Future finders most definitely express gratitude for throwdowns. I was the "last DNF'er" of a cache where the "next finder" threw down. (It was on the way to a vacation for me, and it was and still is on my watchlist). The next two finders expressed their joy for the throwdown. No word from the cache owner yet, who *is* an active Geocacher. I won't bother linking to that though, as I've seen far better examples of future finders expressing joy for a throwdown for months on end. It's like they read the last couple logs, and decide to thank the throwdowner as well. :P

 

Throwing down is generally quite accepted in the Geocaching mainstream. The forums ain't the Geocaching mainstream though. But rest assured, The Frog and it's volunteer reviewers are all vehemently anti-throwdown.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I really don't understand. I looked at your account and saw over 100 copy/paste bike route caches. :blink: It sure looks like a urban power trail that would welcome throwdowns. :unsure:

 

Nothing like coming here to São Paulo and try the supposed Urban PT... <_<

 

The São Paulo Government wants people to use more bicycles, so it is making a lot of initiatives to support their use in day life activities. One of the ways they promote it is by putting Bike Stops (groups of 12 bikes supports that you can use for free for 1h after registering in their website). I love to bike (both with pedals and have one with 250cc motor) so I placed one cache in each Stop so any tourist or local can go around the city in a bike looking for caches.

 

If you think I accept Throwdowns, you are very wrong, for 2 reasons. First my "copy/paste" cache description says: "Please, if you see that the cache is not there or something is wrong with it log a "Need Maintenance", if you couldn´t find it log a "Did Not Found". Help me keep this cache alive!" and the second reason is, all caches are handmade with some magnetic strip, tape and a plastic bag, placed under the metallic bike support rail.

 

So, never had a throwdown... yet!

 

The cache tools:

BikeCachetools_zps95fd4cb1.jpg

 

The cache with a golf ball to compare size:

Bikecache_zpsc2fb84a7.jpg

Edited by JPreto

Share this post


Link to post

Yep, promoting more unmaintained caches doesn't benefit the community. If the cache is gone and the owner is MIA, time to archive and if the area is so great let a responsible cache owner place a cache there. Logging a DNF isn't so bad, or at least it shouldn't be. If you feel you are wasting your time if you don't find a cache then perhaps you're looking for the wrong type of caches.

 

This is exactly how I feel! I am not alone... :lol:

Share this post


Link to post

I suppose a lot would depend on the missing cache and the throwdown cache, although in principle I'd be against replacing a cache without the owner's permission.

The way I see it, if someone replaces a cache they think is missing, it makes no sense for them to turn around and claim they found the cache. So in addition to the practical reasons for only replacing a cache under the direction of the owner, I see getting the owner's permission to replace a missing cache as including getting permission to log the cache even though you didn't find it. When I see someone throwdown unilaterally and then claim a find -- which, of course, is almost every throwdown -- I consider it a blatant cheat, not that I'm anything but amused by someone so determined to get an unwarranted find.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Let's say you know the cache owner and they are having health troubles right now. Although I would generally email them to ask ahead of time, if I hadn't planned ahead like that, I might leave a replacement if I had one with me.

 

If I knew the CO, and they couldn't get to the cache because of health or other good reasons, I would replace the cache for them, if they OK it, and wanted me to.

 

I would not claim it as a find, and would not throw down a film can or other micro to replace a regular. (If the hide was a micro to begin with I would be very unlikely to replace it for them period.)

Share this post


Link to post

I really don't understand. I looked at your account and saw over 100 copy/paste bike route caches. :blink: It sure looks like a urban power trail that would welcome throwdowns. :unsure:

 

Nothing like coming here to São Paulo and try the supposed Urban PT... <_<

 

The São Paulo Government wants people to use more bicycles, so it is making a lot of initiatives to support their use in day life activities. One of the ways they promote it is by putting Bike Stops (groups of 12 bikes supports that you can use for free for 1h after registering in their website). I love to bike (both with pedals and have one with 250cc motor) so I placed one cache in each Stop so any tourist or local can go around the city in a bike looking for caches.

 

If you think I accept Throwdowns, you are very wrong, for 2 reasons. First my "copy/paste" cache description says: "Please, if you see that the cache is not there or something is wrong with it log a "Need Maintenance", if you couldn´t find it log a "Did Not Found". Help me keep this cache alive!" and the second reason is, all caches are handmade with some magnetic strip, tape and a plastic bag, placed under the metallic bike support rail.

 

So, never had a throwdown... yet!

 

The cache tools:

BikeCachetools_zps95fd4cb1.jpg

 

The cache with a golf ball to compare size:

Bikecache_zpsc2fb84a7.jpg

So that is a geocache container? And people complain about our micro's here in the USA.:lol:

Even here in resort areas geocachers leave containers to trade swag. Sorry, but just looking for a plastic bag to sign a log is not my idea of geocaching. Those are just for numbers geocachers. If I came to São Paulo as a tourist I would seek caches in interesting locations, not places to park my bike. :(

Share this post


Link to post

Is this a regional problem? I really haven't seen more than one or two throw downs in my entire geocaching life.

Share this post


Link to post

Is this a regional problem? I really haven't seen more than one or two throw downs in my entire geocaching life.

 

I'm not far from you, of course. I'd say I've only seen less than 10 documented ones over the years. HOWEVER, I do know there's a 30,000+ find couple who hits both our areas who throw down every single time they don't find the cache. But it's never documented, on a count of copy and paste logs. :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post

Throwing down is generally quite accepted in the Geocaching mainstream. The forums ain't the Geocaching mainstream though. But rest assured, The Frog and it's volunteer reviewers are all vehemently anti-throwdown.

I don't think its so much being anti-throwdown as it is a commitment to the idea that the physical cache is the property of the cache owner. When people start replacing containers without permission you run into the issue of who owns the new container. If there is a problem, can the cache owner just say that the container isn't theirs?

 

Funny thing is that on the forum is that many people who would say it's okay to replace a broken or leaky container with a new one are appalled when someone leaves a throwdown for a cache that is presumably missing. In either case, you've created a issue as to who owns the container.

 

I suppose a lot would depend on the missing cache and the throwdown cache, although in principle I'd be against replacing a cache without the owner's permission.

The way I see it, if someone replaces a cache they think is missing, it makes no sense for them to turn around and claim they found the cache.

I'm not sure if your indignation is at the people leaving throwdowns or at cache owners who allow them to be logged as Found online.

 

Since I view a Found log as saying you found the cache, I agree it's being a bit dishonest to call a throwdown a find. But my interpretation of the way the Found log is used as a WIGAS log, is that if the cache owner allows it, a throwdown is a WIGAS.

 

I know from the Challenge cache thread that we have different interpretations of the what WIGAS log means. Cache owners have been using it to reward different activities for a long time. This is the origin of challenge caches. While The official guidelines for logging finds call out some explicit reasons a cache owner may delete an online WIGAS log, they don't work the other way. Cache owners may accept almost any log they like. There are some limitation on what they can say on the cache page to prevent people from creating virtual caches and the like, but nothing prevents a cache owner from letting someone log a WIGAS for leaving a replacement. TPTB have indicated that you may delete the find of the person who left a throwdown, but they strongly discourage deletion of logs of people who come later and find the throwdown even if the original cache is still there.

 

I'm guessing throwdowns are limited to micros. I never had anyone replace an ammo can for me. :laughing:

Unfortunately we've has a spat of someone who replaces ammo cans with cheap tupperware or even plastic bags. We don't know if its a muggle who steals the ammo cans but doesn't want to disrupt the geocaching game by stealing the cache contents, or a cacher who is just too cheap to buy their own ammo cans.

Share this post


Link to post

So that is a geocache container? And people complain about our micro's here in the USA.:lol:

Even here in resort areas geocachers leave containers to trade swag. Sorry, but just looking for a plastic bag to sign a log is not my idea of geocaching. Those are just for numbers geocachers. If I came to São Paulo as a tourist I would seek caches in interesting locations, not places to park my bike. :(

I think Groundspeak accepts magnetic stripes as geocache containers, ate least they mention it in the Guidelines:

 

"other: See the cache description for information. Unusual geocache containers that just don't fit into other categories. Example: a magnetic strip."

 

Not everybody likes SWAGs and not everybody likes all kinds of caches or places. I have the freedom to place this type of containers and you have the freedom to visit them or not. You like sightseeing see some caches that I placed in the tallest mountains in São Paulo City, if you like Buildings or art look at my caches that focus on those subjects... All my caches are inside a specific list that you can see in my profile page.

 

By the way, how does this relate to Throwdowns, the original topic? <_<

Share this post


Link to post

So that is a geocache container? And people complain about our micro's here in the USA.:lol:

Even here in resort areas geocachers leave containers to trade swag. Sorry, but just looking for a plastic bag to sign a log is not my idea of geocaching. Those are just for numbers geocachers. If I came to São Paulo as a tourist I would seek caches in interesting locations, not places to park my bike. :(

I think Groundspeak accepts magnetic stripes as geocache containers, ate least they mention it in the Guidelines:

 

"other: See the cache description for information. Unusual geocache containers that just don't fit into other categories. Example: a magnetic strip."

 

Not everybody likes SWAGs and not everybody likes all kinds of caches or places. I have the freedom to place this type of containers and you have the freedom to visit them or not. You like sightseeing see some caches that I placed in the tallest mountains in São Paulo City, if you like Buildings or art look at my caches that focus on those subjects... All my caches are inside a specific list that you can see in my profile page.

 

By the way, how does this relate to Throwdowns, the original topic? <_<

 

What are geocachers leaving that you call a throwdown? If I found a plastic bag with a small log sheet in it I would think the container was missing, so helping you keep the cache alive as you request, I would stuff it in a container and place it back out of sight. :P

Share this post


Link to post

What are geocachers leaving that you call a throwdown? If I found a plastic bag with a small log sheet in it I would think the container was missing, so helping you keep the cache alive as you request, I would stuff it in a container and place it back out of sight. :P

 

Never interpreted it that way, but you are right, if I say "Help me keep this cache alive!" even tho the context is log a DNF if you can´t find it and a NM if you really think the cache is gone I will change that sentence in all my caches, just to make sure people don´t even think about doing a "Throwdown" in any of my caches... I will replace it to: "Respect the game, don´t place a throwdown!".

 

Thanks for making me realize the double interpretation of that sentence. :)

Share this post


Link to post

What are geocachers leaving that you call a throwdown? If I found a plastic bag with a small log sheet in it I would think the container was missing, so helping you keep the cache alive as you request, I would stuff it in a container and place it back out of sight. :P

 

Never interpreted it that way, but you are right, if I say "Help me keep this cache alive!" even tho the context is log a DNF if you can´t find it and a NM if you really think the cache is gone I will change that sentence in all my caches, just to make sure people don´t even think about doing a "Throwdown" in any of my caches... I will replace it to: "Respect the game, don´t place a throwdown!".

 

Thanks for making me realize the double interpretation of that sentence. :)

There was a bit of confusion. I first thought your photo was a "geocache repair kit", and the way that you worded the listings to "help keep them alive" was a clever was of saying it was OK to leave a throwdown. After all, you started this thread asking how the community feels about throwdowns. :anibad:

I will add new log sheets, and from time to time I will replace a film canister with a new one. It's not that I refuse to log a DNF, I have over 100 at least compared to my almost 700 finds. As others have stated, throwns are a common thing for numbers cachers, and like it or not your series IS a cache for numbers runners. I looked at the logs on some of them posted in the last few days, one user is completing a challenge cache requirement with some of them while in Brazil. Not that there is anything wrong with numbers caches, but anytime that you put out a lot of micros in an area the numbers cachers will come. B)

Share this post


Link to post

Throwing down is generally quite accepted in the Geocaching mainstream. The forums ain't the Geocaching mainstream though. But rest assured, The Frog and it's volunteer reviewers are all vehemently anti-throwdown.

I don't think its so much being anti-throwdown as it is a commitment to the idea that the physical cache is the property of the cache owner. When people start replacing containers without permission you run into the issue of who owns the new container. If there is a problem, can the cache owner just say that the container isn't theirs?

 

Funny thing is that on the forum is that many people who would say it's okay to replace a broken or leaky container with a new one are appalled when someone leaves a throwdown for a cache that is presumably missing. In either case, you've created a issue as to who owns the container.

 

OK, I didn't want to call anyone out, but here is a classic, blatantly admitted throwdown after my DNF. Are all throwdowns blatantly admitted as such in the "find log"? I'd say no. There are many out there that we don't know about.

 

Interesting. I certainly don't advocate replacing a messed up, in place, cache with a new one. Although I did do it once in like 2007. I've seen the error of my ways, and it won't happen again. :P

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting. I certainly don't advocate replacing a messed up, in place, cache with a new one. Although I did do it once in like 2007. I've seen the error of my ways, and it won't happen again. :P

 

Don't feel bad. We all make mistakes. Mine was replacing this deteriorated tupperware container

e635148a-8821-47d7-941e-7748bb03bfe2.jpg

 

with this ammo can

fb9ccc28-bf01-45b7-a284-06eff2b6db7c.jpg

 

Since then more than one hundred people only think the found the oldest cache in Los Angeles County.

Share this post


Link to post

The way I see it, if someone replaces a cache they think is missing, it makes no sense for them to turn around and claim they found the cache.

I'm not sure if your indignation is at the people leaving throwdowns or at cache owners who allow them to be logged as Found online.

Hmmm... I didn't mean to express indignation, just a logical observation: if you didn't find the cache, throwing down a replacement doesn't change that. I don't care whether someone claims such a find, even though I consider it silly. I'll save my negative reaction for the fact that they put a container somewhere when they really don't know whether the original container is there or not.

 

How the CO reacts to a throwdown find is up to them. I couldn't care less about that.

Share this post


Link to post

When a CO places a cache, it is required that they get permission from the land owner/manager. Unless someone else obtains permission, they should not place a container.

Share this post


Link to post

Hey guys hope you dont mind me chiming in, I know im new but maybe a fresh opinion may help. These throwdowns can go left or right. If one was placed because they were just lazy and couldnt find it then yes throwdown=Bad. But having searched for caches that havent been found in months in public places leads me to believe that they were muggled. so Maybe a statute of limitation should be placed on how long a chache can go unfound before some of management goes to peek at it(or an experienced cacher get permission). because i cant think of anything sadder and more frustrating then me finally convincing my friends to go out caching with me only to not find a cache and now they wont try again. #SoloAct but dont get me wrong you deffinitally cant claim you found it if you replaced it. thats just lying.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Edited by KyleNorth

Share this post


Link to post

Hey guys hope you dont mind me chiming in, I know im new but maybe a fresh opinion may help. These throwdowns can go left or right. If one was placed because they were just lazy and couldnt find it then yes throwdown=Bad. But having searched for caches that havent been found in months in public places leads me to believe that they were muggled. so Maybe a statute of limitation should be placed on how long a chache can go unfound before some of management goes to peek at it(or an experienced cacher get permission). because i cant think of anything sadder and more frustrating then me finally convincing my friends to go out caching with me only to not find a cache and now they wont try again. #SoloAct but dont get me wrong you deffinitally cant claim you found it if you replaced it. thats just lying.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

The geocaches are the property of the person who placed them. There is no "Management" to monitor the cache, other than the cache owner. I have a cache that hasn't been found for over a year. If you are more selective on the caches which you choosew to search out, omitting those with several recent DNF logs, you should be able to find more, whether you are with friends or caching alone.

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe a statute of limitation should be placed on how long a chache can go unfound before some of management goes to peek at it

It's hard to determine how long a cache can go unfound (I just got notification that someone found a cache of mine that hadn't been found in over two years - and prior that find hadn't been found in four years). It's just as difficult to determine how long after a DNF before either maintenance or found. For many caches that don't get searched for very often, a single DNF does not tell the owner that much. If the cache is a difficult hide, multiple DNFs between finds may be expected.

 

What we do have are Needs Maintenance and Needs Archive log. These along with multiple DNFs are the only way we know that a cache may be in need of maintenance.

 

The proper approach is for cachers to log a DNF if they don't find the cache. If they are prior DNFs and the cache seem like it should be easy, or their some other evidence that the cache may have been muggled, then cachers should log a needs maintenace. If there is a previous Needs Maintenance that is older than a month or so and the cache owner hasn't responded to it, then log a Needs Archive. That will get the reviewers attention and start a process of getting the cache archive. Some owners seem to delay maintenance till the get a note from a reviewer saying the cache will be archived in 30 days.

 

At no place does it make a whole lot of sense to leave a throwdown without permission of the owner. I know the people leaving throwdowas truly believe they are being helpful. The point is that caches belong to the cachers who place them (or have officially adopted them). If the owner has left the game and is not maintaining the cache there is very little reason to do an unofficial adoption. Even so called historic caches should probably be allowed to get archived so that new caches can be placed.

Share this post


Link to post

I wonder how often do people ask for "permission of the owner" - or, let's say, communicate with the owner? It's not rare around here that cachers contact me (as a CO) to ask if they can help this or that cache in any way. ("I'll be in that district next week, would you like me to check your cache?") However most visitors to the area have contacted me only for hints or confirmation of puzzle coordinates. I suppose that the widespread advice "nothing more than DNF, NM or NA for a cache you don't own" is missing the important social aspect of the game. And, really, it's not about "permissions" or "property", it's about being helpful. I'm thinking about adding a phone number to my public profile. Call me. Don't waste a whole hour on a 1/1 cache thinking that your GPS has gone mad - and don't leave a throwdown after your desperate attempts to find my hide.

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe a statute of limitation should be placed on how long a chache can go unfound before some of management goes to peek at it

It's hard to determine how long a cache can go unfound (I just got notification that someone found a cache of mine that hadn't been found in over two years - and prior that find hadn't been found in four years). It's just as difficult to determine how long after a DNF before either maintenance or found. For many caches that don't get searched for very often, a single DNF does not tell the owner that much. If the cache is a difficult hide, multiple DNFs between finds may be expected. What we do have are Needs Maintenance and Needs Archive log. These along with multiple DNFs are the only way we know that a cache may be in need of maintenance.

 

I totally agree with this point of view!

 

I made an FTF on a cacher after 6 years http://coord.info/GC186YT and also a DNF and NA after 7 years without anybody searching for it http://coord.info/GC1382T this one would be a very nice Throwdown...

 

But for instance, cases like this http://coord.info/GC35RM4 that the cache is probably ok (will check tomorrow) but the owner is MIA since December 2011 and the logbook is full and it´s a nano. It will be archived soon because no one will put a new logbook. It´s the owner that is responsible for that so, if he is gone from the game, the cache is gone too. I totally agree with this! And here we are not talking about a throwdown but a much simpler thing, a log replacement...

Edited by JPreto

Share this post


Link to post

Around here people are saying they have "reset" the cache... Same difference and for the most part it is the original CO is the same for each reset.... I refuse to find those. Have messaged the original CO on several asking for confirmation. I see them logged on recently but they are NOT maintaining their caches.... Sigh......

Share this post


Link to post

Throwing down is generally quite accepted in the Geocaching mainstream. The forums ain't the Geocaching mainstream though. But rest assured, The Frog and it's volunteer reviewers are all vehemently anti-throwdown.

I don't think its so much being anti-throwdown as it is a commitment to the idea that the physical cache is the property of the cache owner. When people start replacing containers without permission you run into the issue of who owns the new container. If there is a problem, can the cache owner just say that the container isn't theirs?

 

Funny thing is that on the forum is that many people who would say it's okay to replace a broken or leaky container with a new one are appalled when someone leaves a throwdown for a cache that is presumably missing. In either case, you've created a issue as to who owns the container.

 

You couldn't be more wrong about your assumptions. We hate throwdowns because of the following:

 

1. It's a lame attempt at a smilie

2. It can/will cause confusion when more than one container will be at the physical location. I have seen numerous cases of this in my general area.

 

Replacing an obviously damaged geocache is not the same thing. You FOUND the original, so you can log a smilie without feeling cheated and you know that the replacement is the only one that will remain.

 

3. It results in lame/unmaintained caches

 

Replacing the container can breathe life back into a cache that has seen better days, but as some would say, it is performing maintenance on a cache that has been abandoned. That's a good debate to have, but I for one am ok with maintaining a cache if I choose to.

 

EDIT: And by replacement cache I mean like-for-like or better. If an ammo can is damaged and you put a film pot in its place, that's not a replacement, that's an insult!

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4

×