What is the deal with Cache Art out west?

[+rockey_f_squirrell]

So I love looking at things out west, and on the map, I have seen shapes like a Heart, Route 66 insignia, USMC Symbols, and lots lots more. How do they do that, I mean get permission for that stuff, cause somebody has to own/manage that land. Isnt all the caches in a row a bit of overkill?

 

We have a tough enough time seeking permission for places here in IL

 

I was just wondering about what the wise/tactful way to get permission for that sort of stuff, because my Cache territory here in IL, includes the Largest state park, and I have it all to myself (as far as caching goes), and would like to try something like that here (It would be a simple shape), but I think a first for IL.

[+Manville Possum]

The only geoart that I have encountered is a pig in West Virginia. It is a power trail of ? caches along a highway. I'm guessing out West it is flat enough for some real geoart?

[+T.D.M.22]

Same way they get permission for their other hides or there's always the chance that the person who placed them owns the land.

 

Anyway if they are the unknown caches the caches may appear to be in the shape of a star or alien or whatever in the middle of a farm field, but they are puzzle caches, so the true co-ords may be along a dirt road. No need to step onto that field.

[jholly]

So I love looking at things out west, and on the map, I have seen shapes like a Heart, Route 66 insignia, USMC Symbols, and lots lots more. How do they do that, I mean get permission for that stuff, cause somebody has to own/manage that land. Isnt all the caches in a row a bit of overkill?

 

We have a tough enough time seeking permission for places here in IL

 

I was just wondering about what the wise/tactful way to get permission for that sort of stuff, because my Cache territory here in IL, includes the Largest state park, and I have it all to myself (as far as caching goes), and would like to try something like that here (It would be a simple shape), but I think a first for IL.

You need to understand that unlike the eastern US large portions of the land in the western states is under the control of the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). The BLM has a very generous policy towards geocaching. Many times is if it is not specifically disallowed it is allowed. The USFS (United States Forest Service) in the western states is also very supportive of geocaching unlike the USFS in the eastern US. The USFS land also is large portions of the western states. The high point is Nevada where 80% of the land is in the control of one part of the government or the other.

 

We can now continue with I hate power trails discussion and how power trails will be the downfall of geocaching. Perhaps this time ya'all could work the intro app and smartphones into the disscussion.

[Pup Patrol]

We can now continue with I hate power trails discussion and how power trails will be the downfall of geocaching. Perhaps this time ya'all could work the intro app and smartphones into the disscussion.

 

 

Frequenters of this forum are rather predictable, eh?

 

To the OP, it's not just "out west" in the USA where there are multitudes of "geoart".

 

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

 

 

B.

[Mr.Yuck]

So I love looking at things out west, and on the map, I have seen shapes like a Heart, Route 66 insignia, USMC Symbols, and lots lots more. How do they do that, I mean get permission for that stuff, cause somebody has to own/manage that land. Isnt all the caches in a row a bit of overkill?

 

We have a tough enough time seeking permission for places here in IL

 

I was just wondering about what the wise/tactful way to get permission for that sort of stuff, because my Cache territory here in IL, includes the Largest state park, and I have it all to myself (as far as caching goes), and would like to try something like that here (It would be a simple shape), but I think a first for IL.

You need to understand that unlike the eastern US large portions of the land in the western states is under the control of the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). The BLM has a very generous policy towards geocaching. Many times is if it is not specifically disallowed it is allowed. The USFS (United States Forest Service) in the western states is also very supportive of geocaching unlike the USFS in the eastern US. The USFS land also is large portions of the western states. The high point is Nevada where 80% of the land is in the control of one part of the government or the other.

 

We can now continue with I hate power trails discussion and how power trails will be the downfall of geocaching. Perhaps this time ya'all could work the intro app and smartphones into the disscussion.

 

This east coaster agrees. And as far as the last sentence, ya' never know, someone could take out an intro app user on a power trail.

 

Ironically enough, I just stumbled on this not far off the route I took to a recent vacation. It's probably 150 miles from my home coordinates, and I was truly amazed when I saw it. It's genuine East Coast Geo-Art with the caches *at* the posted coordinates, just like out west. Sure, it's kinda lame, but I was still surprised. It's on a Pennsylvania State Gamelands: Smiley Face Geo Art.

[+QuiltinNana]

In western PA, we also have the Pirate Geoart series in a gamelands section and the Pennsylvania 50 State Star. Both are ? caches where you have to solve questions to get the real coordinates. The Pirate geoart caches are all the same container and require about 6 miles of hiking (although some are accessable from the road) through PA gamelands 130. The PA State Star has quite the variety of hides and containers. They were all easily accessable with short hikes alongside the road. I really enjoyed doing both of them even if they were ? and not "real" geoart.

Edited May 7, 2014 by QuiltinNana

[Mr.Yuck]

In western PA, we also have the Pirate Geoart series in a gamelands section and the Pennsylvania 50 State Star. Both are ? caches where you have to solve questions to get the real coordinates. The Pirate geoart caches are all the same container and require about 6 miles of hiking (although some are accessable from the road) through PA gamelands 130. The PA State Star has quite the variety of hides and containers. They were all easily accessable with short hikes alongside the road. I really enjoyed doing both of them even if they were ? and not "real" geoart.

 

Interesting, I did not know about the 50 State Star project. And I consider myself to be pretty up on things. Ya' learn something new every day.

[+rockey_f_squirrell]

The USFS (United States Forest Service) in the western states is also very supportive of geocaching unlike the USFS in the eastern US. The USFS land also is large portions of the western states. The high point is Nevada where 80% of the land is in the control of one part of the government or the other.

 

 

Actually the Shawnee National Forest of Southern IL, is pretty nice to work with. It is the only place in the state I an hide an ammo box. I found this our only when I tried to hide one at a cave in a Nature Preserve. The Ranger told me that Nature Preserves are restricted, but I can hide one on forest land, and did not have all the rules/regulations the state has.

Edited May 8, 2014 by rockey_f_squirrell

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

[+spider16]

I was just wondering about what the wise/tactful way to get permission for that sort of stuff, because my Cache territory here in IL, includes the Largest state park, and I have it all to myself (as far as caching goes), and would like to try something like that here (It would be a simple shape), but I think a first for IL.

 

I'm not sure about any large geoart in Southern IL but there is some geoart in IL already. The two largest ones are the skull put out by Skuzzy13 - Skuzinomics 101:The Dead Man's Tale Entry 1, the hummingbird by Greenback - GMT #001 - ThrillerManInTheMirrorBeatItBillieJean, and SALZ put out by salz69 and continued with a 10 by michigan_chris - The "Salz 69": #1/Salz69's "10"000th #1. Those are the largest ones that immediately came to mind. There are a few smaller ones (ex. a question mark and a smaller star) in IL (including Southern IL) as well.

[Love]

Here are some images of Geo-Art from around the world on Pinterest.

[+SwineFlew]

Geoart + BLM land = winner!

[+GrateBear]

The only geoart that I have encountered is a pig in West Virginia. It is a power trail of ? caches along a highway. I'm guessing out West it is flat enough for some real geoart?

Have to say, the land out here for many of the geo-arts is not flat! Some good size hills, drop-offs, ledges--one can get a rather good workout if doing them w/o the luxury of an ATV or 4WD vehicle. Many times I've looked at the satellite map, the land looks fairly flat, and then get there and "What? It's way up there?"

[Mr.Yuck]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

 

I looked at a few of those images as well. A few were located in highly populated areas and consisted of dozens of unknown or multi caches. A potential cache owner living in those areas but wasn't interested in doing the geoart would still have to solve all the puzzles and determine the final for all the multi caches if they wanted to ensure that the cache they want to place doesn't violate the proximity guideline.

 

 

[team tisri]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

 

I looked at a few of those images as well. A few were located in highly populated areas and consisted of dozens of unknown or multi caches. A potential cache owner living in those areas but wasn't interested in doing the geoart would still have to solve all the puzzles and determine the final for all the multi caches if they wanted to ensure that the cache they want to place doesn't violate the proximity guideline.

 

Or they could just send their proposed coordinates to the local reviewer and ask if it violates any guidelines. Even if they were to solve every puzzle that wouldn't help if some of the caches had multiple physical stages.

 

I've seen a few small pieces of "cache art" in the UK, usually consisting of just a couple of dozen caches, usually ? icons, forming an S-shape or a smiley face or similar. Having the posted coordinates for a puzzle in the middle of a lake makes at least some sense because there's usually someone who doesn't read the bit that says "no cache at posted coordinates" and tries to find it.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

 

I looked at a few of those images as well. A few were located in highly populated areas and consisted of dozens of unknown or multi caches. A potential cache owner living in those areas but wasn't interested in doing the geoart would still have to solve all the puzzles and determine the final for all the multi caches if they wanted to ensure that the cache they want to place doesn't violate the proximity guideline.

 

Or they could just send their proposed coordinates to the local reviewer and ask if it violates any guidelines. Even if they were to solve every puzzle that wouldn't help if some of the caches had multiple physical stages

 

They could do that, but why should a potential cache owner be forced to jump through extra hoops just because someone else decides to saturate an area with puzzle caches. Why should a reviewer be burdened with extra work just so some other CO could create a pattern on a map?

 

 

[+BAMBOOZLE]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

 

I looked at a few of those images as well. A few were located in highly populated areas and consisted of dozens of unknown or multi caches. A potential cache owner living in those areas but wasn't interested in doing the geoart would still have to solve all the puzzles and determine the final for all the multi caches if they wanted to ensure that the cache they want to place doesn't violate the proximity guideline.

 

Or they could just send their proposed coordinates to the local reviewer and ask if it violates any guidelines. Even if they were to solve every puzzle that wouldn't help if some of the caches had multiple physical stages

 

They could do that, but why should a potential cache owner be forced to jump through extra hoops just because someone else decides to saturate an area with puzzle caches. Why should a reviewer be burdened with extra work just so some other CO could create a pattern on a map?

 

I agree.....its one of the things I dislike about puzzle caches.

[+fizzymagic]

We can now continue with I hate power trails discussion and how power trails will be the downfall of geocaching. Perhaps this time ya'all could work the intro app and smartphones into the disscussion.

 

I don't much care for power trails, but I think that geoart is fine thing, even though I haven't done any. It seems to me that geoart is a natural extension of geocaching and human creativity, and if there are people who enjoy it, more power to them.

 

I don't need to find every cache. And I don't require that every cache out there must be one I would like.

 

On a more personal note: my opinion is that anything that makes hiding urban caches more difficult is a good thing. There are plenty of spots for geocaches to be hidden, so the complaining about how geoart puzzle caches "block cache placements" doesn't strike me as a serious argument. I don't think urban caches should be banned or restricted in new ways, but the very presence of unsolved puzzles in the area has the salutary effect of discouraging less-determined cache hiders. That tends to have a salutary effect on the quality of caches.

[vagabond]

there are quite a few around the barstow Ca. area, highway 395 north of I15

there are about 4 the last time I looked and before highway 58north of 58 on the 395 there are more. Between Barstow and Needles the route 66 emblem, all BLM land

[+Roman!]

We did the Jet in Idaho as well as part (a very small part) of the train, the jet we drove, basically off road 4x4ing and it was an awesome day, the train, we did a part of one of the smoke clouds (90 or so caches) on foot, very cool, very tiring.

 

The time, effort and dedication to create these is amazing and the people who place them are truly dedicated to our hobby.

[team tisri]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

 

I looked at a few of those images as well. A few were located in highly populated areas and consisted of dozens of unknown or multi caches. A potential cache owner living in those areas but wasn't interested in doing the geoart would still have to solve all the puzzles and determine the final for all the multi caches if they wanted to ensure that the cache they want to place doesn't violate the proximity guideline.

 

Or they could just send their proposed coordinates to the local reviewer and ask if it violates any guidelines. Even if they were to solve every puzzle that wouldn't help if some of the caches had multiple physical stages

 

They could do that, but why should a potential cache owner be forced to jump through extra hoops just because someone else decides to saturate an area with puzzle caches. Why should a reviewer be burdened with extra work just so some other CO could create a pattern on a map?

 

I'm not sure what picture the caches form on the map has anything to do with it. When multis and puzzles can be a couple of miles from the posted coordinates, and both may have multiple physical stages that need to be considered, the fact that both exist at all means there's a chance a proposed location will be too near a physical stage.

 

I certainly wouldn't take the time to prepare a considered hide only to find I couldn't make the hide because it was 400 feet from a film pot that was an intermediate stage in a puzzle. If I planned to hide something I'd first make sure the location was acceptable and only then take the time and trouble to consider how best to hide it.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

A lot of them that I've seen are puzzles, and the icons on the map aren't on land. This way, they avoid the proximity guideline.

 

But the "Listed coordinates shoud be no more than 2 miles from actual cache" comes into play. The Snoopy art in NH had caches that were dozens of miles from the "?".

 

I remember that being discussed, and ultimately no longer allowed. I don't want to say the local reviewer got their wrist slapped for that or anything though. I didn't follow that closely. I looked at the Geoart on Pinterest as posted by Lackey Love, and there's a lot of "?" (Mystery) Geoart. I'd be willing to bet they generally enforce the 2 mile rule, with maybe a few minor exceptions. But nothing like letterboxes all over the State having their posted coords in a lake.

 

I looked at a few of those images as well. A few were located in highly populated areas and consisted of dozens of unknown or multi caches. A potential cache owner living in those areas but wasn't interested in doing the geoart would still have to solve all the puzzles and determine the final for all the multi caches if they wanted to ensure that the cache they want to place doesn't violate the proximity guideline.

 

Or they could just send their proposed coordinates to the local reviewer and ask if it violates any guidelines. Even if they were to solve every puzzle that wouldn't help if some of the caches had multiple physical stages

 

They could do that, but why should a potential cache owner be forced to jump through extra hoops just because someone else decides to saturate an area with puzzle caches. Why should a reviewer be burdened with extra work just so some other CO could create a pattern on a map?

 

I'm not sure what picture the caches form on the map has anything to do with it.

 

Only that people will dismiss any criticism because of the coolness factory of having smiley faces on their maps in a pattern.

 

When multis and puzzles can be a couple of miles from the posted coordinates, and both may have multiple physical stages that need to be considered, the fact that both exist at all means there's a chance a proposed location will be too near a physical stage.

 

Yes,when a single puzzle or multi is published, there is a possibility that a future placement is going to conflict with a physical stage of that cache. That's the way it's always been. When you multiply that by a couple of dozen or more puzzle or multi caches either a potential cache owner is going to have to solve a lot of puzzle caches or they're going to contact the reviewer to try to get confirmation that they're proposed location is okay. Either way, their adding additional work to the cache owner or the reviewer.

 

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see cache locations chosen because they're places that people might want to visit, not due to it's relative proximity another cache.

Edited May 10, 2014 by NYPaddleCacher