Buryying caches

[+Celticthunder4]

I was asked since I am into geocaching to teach the boy scouts the geocaching merit badge. One of the things they need to know is why it isnt a good thing to bury a cache. I have an answer but really wanted something more official sounding. Thanks everyone! Or if any of you have already taught the requirements and have any ideas about the whole thing?????

Thanks, Tony

[+Chief301]

Of all people, I would think the Boy Scouts would already understand the Leave No Trace outdoor ethic.

 

Obviously, we don't want to do damage to the landscape. We also want to avoid creating a negative image of Geocaching to the general public. Furthermore, we don't want new players going around digging holes all over the place looking for the "buried treasure"....I mean, my GPS says ZERO so it must be RIGHT HERE (even though there's a tree 5 feet away).....my GPS must be right so it has to be buried, so I'll just start digging right here. 😠

 

Finally, if someone gets away with burying one, say it slips by the reviewer's attention (or the hider just out and out lies about it), then future hiders will think that's an acceptable hiding method. We don't want that.

[+Celticthunder4]

Thanks so much the way you put is way better than what could have done. If you dont mind I will use some of what you said. Thanks again and keeep caching my friend.

[+Don_J]

Of all people, I would think the Boy Scouts would already understand the Leave No Trace outdoor ethic.

 

Obviously, we don't want to do damage to the landscape. We also want to avoid creating a negative image of Geocaching to the general public. Furthermore, we don't want new players going around digging holes all over the place looking for the "buried treasure"....I mean, my GPS says ZERO so it must be RIGHT HERE (even though there's a tree 5 feet away).....my GPS must be right so it has to be buried, so I'll just start digging right here. 😠

 

Finally, if someone gets away with burying one, say it slips by the reviewer's attention (or the hider just out and out lies about it), then future hiders will think that's an acceptable hiding method. We don't want that.

 

I think this covers just about the entire issue. To augment, if a land manager thinks that we will be digging holes in the land that that thay manage, they will ban the our activity outright.

[Keystone]

The most common news media misstatement about our hobby: "People use a GPS system to search for buried containers hidden around the world."

 

The most common land manager question when trying to obtain permission: "Will it be buried? We don't want people digging on our property."

 

I think the first quote influences the second quote. And if you can't get permission to hide a cache in a park, the hobby is worse off.

 

Scouts and all other geocachers can help the hobby by never referring to "buried treasure" when talking about it -- much less when hiding a cache.

[+K13]

Having taught the Geocaching Merit Badge, both to an individual Troop and at Summer Camp, the easiest explanation I found was that "Burying caches is against the rules" - reinforced with the mantra "Geocaches are never buried". I have only had one kid ask further, after being told it is against the rules of the game. I also tried to emphasize the Leave No Trace aspect of cache finding, so the GZ isn't disturbed after a search.

[+CanadianRockies]

The most common news media misstatement about our hobby: "People use a GPS system to search for buried containers hidden around the world."

 

The most common land manager question when trying to obtain permission: "Will it be buried? We don't want people digging on our property."

 

I think the first quote influences the second quote. And if you can't get permission to hide a cache in a park, the hobby is worse off.

 

Scouts and all other geocachers can help the hobby by never referring to "buried treasure" when talking about it -- much less when hiding a cache.

It doesn't help matters when the first thing a reporter sees when they bring up the geocaching.com Home page is, "Geocaching is the real-world treasure hunt that's happening right now, all around you."

 

For many people, a "real-world treasure hunt" brings up visions of a hunt for buried pirate treasure.

[team tisri]

It's a shame when simple concepts like looking for a cache buried in a pile of leaves, or buried under a collection of sticks, turns into the concept that it is buried under the ground. The potential outcomes of people digging for a buried cache, knowing their GPS maybe has an inaccuracy of about 20 feet, boggles the mind. As someone already said it would be tragic if someone started digging a hole looking for a film pot when the only part of "buried" that had any relevance was that it was under a few stones at the foot of the tree barely 10 feet away.

[+The A-Team]

It doesn't help matters when the first thing a reporter sees when they bring up the geocaching.com Home page is, "Geocaching is the real-world treasure hunt that's happening right now, all around you."

 

For many people, a "real-world treasure hunt" brings up visions of a hunt for buried pirate treasure.

Strongly agree.

 

Groundspeak really needs to change that line and stop promoting geocaching as a treasure hunt. As you said, most people learn while growing up that pirates bury their treasure. It's therefore not that surprising that they make the same connection when they grow up to be adults.

 

Not to mention that the "treasure" part is very misleading. How many new cachers have gone out to look for a cache and been disappointed with the contents, expecting something much more? Hint: it's much more than a handful.

 

As a suggestion, why not describe it as a "scavenger hunt" instead? That breaks the pirates-bury-treasure connection, and also doesn't mislead people as to the value of the container or contents. Scavenger hunts are about finding things and are generally not associated with digging or burying. It seems to describe caching much better in my mind.

[+cerberus1]

It doesn't help matters when the first thing a reporter sees when they bring up the geocaching.com Home page is, "Geocaching is the real-world treasure hunt that's happening right now, all around you."

 

For many people, a "real-world treasure hunt" brings up visions of a hunt for buried pirate treasure.

Strongly agree.

 

Groundspeak really needs to change that line and stop promoting geocaching as a treasure hunt.

Copywrite/ownership thing? "We're number one!"...

 

I'd bet that any new folks, thinking they're going on a "treasure hunt", learn it's simply not true quickly when most of their finds turn out to be pill bottles with a paper log.

- So curious why Groundspeak still claims it so.

[+SwineFlew]

It doesn't help matters when the first thing a reporter sees when they bring up the geocaching.com Home page is, "Geocaching is the real-world treasure hunt that's happening right now, all around you."

 

For many people, a "real-world treasure hunt" brings up visions of a hunt for buried pirate treasure.

Strongly agree.

 

Groundspeak really needs to change that line and stop promoting geocaching as a treasure hunt.

Copywrite/ownership thing? "We're number one!"...

 

I'd bet that any new folks, thinking they're going on a "treasure hunt", learn it's simply not true quickly when most of their finds turn out to be pill bottles with a paper log.

- So curious why Groundspeak still claims it so.

Marketing.

 

When people ask me about geocaching... sometime its hard to explain it to them. Once I said, its similar to treasure hunting, but with a GPS, their face light up like they understood what its all about. And they ask me if there is any reward when I find it and I tell them, just brownie points.

Edited May 2, 2014 by SwineFlew

[+briansnat]

I was asked since I am into geocaching to teach the boy scouts the geocaching merit badge. One of the things they need to know is why it isnt a good thing to bury a cache. I have an answer but really wanted something more official sounding. Thanks everyone! Or if any of you have already taught the requirements and have any ideas about the whole thing?????

Thanks, Tony

 

Simple answer (which Keystone also touched on) is that land managers don't want people digging up their parks.

[+dprovan]

Simple answer (which Keystone also touched on) is that land managers don't want people digging up their parks.

I agree that this is the simple answer and captures the more important aspect of the issue, but the way I look at it is no one would want to dig in order to find a geocache.

[+cerberus1]

Simple answer (which Keystone also touched on) is that land managers don't want people digging up their parks.

I agree that this is the simple answer and captures the more important aspect of the issue, but the way I look at it is no one would want to dig in order to find a geocache.

I agree no one should want to dig, but sponsoring with MineLab (anyone get a coin?) and still calling this game/hobby a treasure hunt doesn't help with that thinking

[+Manville Possum]

Simple answer (which Keystone also touched on) is that land managers don't want people digging up their parks.

I agree that this is the simple answer and captures the more important aspect of the issue, but the way I look at it is no one would want to dig in order to find a geocache.

I agree no one should want to dig, but sponsoring with MineLab (anyone get a coin?) and still calling this game/hobby a treasure hunt doesn't help with that thinking

This brings the game of geodecting to mind, I have a few of their coins. Today I a new CITO trackable from Groundspeak that looked like a shovel. So with geocaching being invented by pirates burying treasure, I can understand where it gets confusing.

But Boy Scouts? Yeah, they should already know about the leave no trace.

[+cerberus1]

Today I a new CITO trackable from Groundspeak that looked like a shovel.

Yeah...

My other 2/3rds noticed the CITO/Earth Day shovel coins and asked if anyone but us think it odd and out of place in a hobby with strict guidelines of "no digging".

[+tozainamboku]

I was asked since I am into geocaching to teach the boy scouts the geocaching merit badge. One of the things they need to know is why it isnt a good thing to bury a cache. I have an answer but really wanted something more official sounding. Thanks everyone! Or if any of you have already taught the requirements and have any ideas about the whole thing?????

Thanks, Tony

 

Simple answer (which Keystone also touched on) is that some land managers don't want people digging up their parks.

FIFY.

 

However the point is still valid and explains both

1. Why the guideline applies to both hiding and finding

2. Why if any exceptions are made they should be rare and clearly indicated as a an exception.

 

The land managers who don't want anyone digging have some very good reasons. They are understandably concerned that if geocaching becomes associated with burying caches that it will be difficult to stop geocachers from digging anywhere. If we all take the mindset that geocachers don't need to excavate holes to hide caches and they certainly never have to break the soil to find caches, then parks that have a legitimate reason to fear even one person digging might be persuaded that geocaching is an activity that is compatible with their park.

 

You can, as an exercise, try to list the reasons why different land managers don't want people to dig. If you make an effort, that list can get pretty long, and you will realize that the some I added to briansnat's statement is by no means an insignificant number, and probably will include some of your favorite places to geocache.

[Keystone]

Several off-topic and/or argumentative posts have been removed. Remember the opening post. If you would not speak the words in your post as part of a presentation to a group of Boy Scouts, then it's off topic and you shouldn't post it.

 

At the same time, I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed some very constructive posts about how to communicate why buried caches are a bad idea.

[4wheelin_fool]

Several off-topic and/or argumentative posts have been removed. Remember the opening post. If you would not speak the words in your post as part of a presentation to a group of Boy Scouts, then it's off topic and you shouldn't post it.

 

 

A scout is:

 

Trustworthy- hiding a buried cache will destroy any trust a land manager had in the game players. They read "Geocaches are never buried", then find one which is. How much trust do you thing they would have after that? Reviewers don't check every hide, they trust us to do what is right.

 

Loyal- Loyalty to the listing site includes following the guide lines. They are there for a reason, and the product of nearly 15 years of input.

 

Helpful- Buried caches are not helpful. Think of the tight spot that a reviewer is in when they find one. If they archive it, they are called a cache cop nazi. If they ignore it, then plenty of others will say they found it and didn't say anything, provoking more to be placed. Buried caches are not helpful.

 

Friendly- Think about how friendly your local land manager would be after he purchases a new GPS and joyfully goes to find the caches hidden in his area, only to discover that they disturbed an important archeological area. Grumpy maybe..

 

Courteous- Being courteous means obeying rules and setting an example.

 

Kind- Be kind to the environment and give it a chance. Put that shovel away.

 

Cheerful- Burying a cache does not make many people cheerful, and sets a poor example.

 

Brave- Don't be afraid to follow the rules, even if everyone else isn't.

 

Clean- Although digging can put dirt under your nails, what really matters is the cuss words that come out of a land managers mouth after they find it.

 

Reverent- Think. Would Jesus hide a buried cache? How about Mohammed, or the Buddah? They have better things go do anyway.

[+Glimmereyes]

Did you forget Obedient, or passing on the low handing fruit?

 

Although Thrifty would lean towards burying since it's probably cheaper method of camo, but 11 out of the 12 points say no burying of caches!

Edited May 7, 2014 by Glimmereyes

[4wheelin_fool]

Did you forget Obedient, or passing on the low handing fruit?

 

Although Thrifty would lean towards burying since it's probably cheaper method of camo, but 11 out of the 12 points say no burying of caches!

 

It's been a while. although I still have the signed letter of congratulations for Eagle from president Reagan, and another from VP Bush.

 

Obedient- should be self explanatory.

 

Thrifty- Buried caches tend to fill up with water quickly, and this costs money to repair, as well as gas prices for driving out there. High maintenance costs!

Edited May 7, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

 

The most common land manager question when trying to obtain permission: "Will it be buried? We don't want people digging on our property."

 

Which is sooooo funny to me because many parks are nothing but land covering large utilities like gas, fuel, and other piping or power lines above. I see many man hole covers and more in parks and have run into multiple large digging projects in the parks.

 

I'm often conflicted about Boy Scout caches and the whole merit badge aspect. I've come across at least a dozen caches by the Boy Scouts either as a group or individual that became nothing more than geo-trash because it was placed and never maintained. If you are going to do a presentation...tell them to NOT place a cache until they know they will be a long time member or unless they promise to pick up the cache and archive it if they stop playing.

Edited May 7, 2014 by TheWeatherWarrior