Arizona State Land Dept. Archiving caches

[+BigOpe]

Someone who is a resident of Arizona and has time should write to Arizona and inform them ALL state, federal, local, whatever lands are public. Land use is determined by the PUBLIC not some agency with a poorly written policy and a unconstitutional habit of running things!

 

As a non-Arizona resident, it took me about 20 minutes of research and a bit of reading to conclude that the state agency is correct, in that the land in question (I'm talking about trust land in general, not that specific cache) is NOT state property, but simply held in trust by the state. They are legally required to only allow usage that provides an economic benefit to the trust, and the enabling act makes it pretty clear that by arbitrarily allowing other usage the officials would be opening themselves up to prosecution.

 

The people who placed geocaches there were both in violation of the rules of geocaching by not having land manager permission, but also the terms of their use permit (if they had one). To be perfectly honest, the state could be FAR more aggressive than simply requesting that the caches be archived, by pursuing legal measures.

 

As far as the specific cache, if you actually LOOK at the parcel map, you'll see that the area in question is shown as State Trust land that is under commercial lease. The Maricopa County Assessor's Office also shows both parcels located at 5350 Marriott Drive, Phoenix AZ as being held by the Arizona State Land Department.

 

While I'm not saying that Marriott doesn't have the right to allow a geocache on property that they hold under lease (I'm pretty certain they do) it's usually better to rely on authoritative sources before you go off the handle about something, instead of relying on the results of a phone conversation with a middle manager about something that's probably well outside of their sphere of responsibility.

 

I'm not understanding why having to buy a permit each year does not constitute an economic benefit to the state. ATVers buy a permit, cattlemen lease grazing land, why is it not a benefit when geocachers buy their permit?

 

As to whether this belongs in a regional forum or a broader one, there are state trust lands in many, many (mostly Western, I would guess) states, and it would be wise to have geocachers in states other than AZ aware of this situation so they can at least try to forestall any such thing in their own state. And, to further sweeten the pot, I could envision the currently cash-strapped Feds pulling something similar for BLM and National Forest lands, which would have MUCH broader implications for our hobby. I know I've already alerted geocacher friends over in New Mexico to keep an eye on what the state and the Feds might be up to over there.

[Rocky Red]

I live in Az and one of my caches was archived. Which annoys me no end.

 

However since folks seem to have some misunderstandings about state trust land, let me offer what I know about it.

 

State trust land is vacant land that is owned by the state and is supposed to be sold to maximize profit for things like schools. Point is, the land is sold. In the above example of a cache that was archived for being on state trust land when the resort owns it ... That map is old. The resort had to own it to build on it. State trust land is sold to the highest bidder for development. That is how it works.

 

The map is also inaccurate to some degree in its boundaries. My cache is located on private property (a mall/outdoor shopping center) overlooking state trust land. Overlooking an osprey and bald eagle habitat. The mall has developed a trail overlooking that habitat. Its called a trail but it is a landscaped walkway that is part of the shopping mall. No one can access the state trust land because of a fence and no trespassing signs. My cache was several feet away from that on the parking lot side of the trail.

 

Geocaching used to be permitted by state trust land management. A change in leadership and now we are not permitted to cache on state trust land. A lot of cachers got yearly permits to do so. We wont be renewing our permit.

 

Im grumpy about this. I am quite fond of that cache and the location. The map does not accurately reflect state trust land and the private property owned by the mall. Because of that, my cache got archived. I wish TPTB would reconsider their action on my cache, but thats life I guess.

 

For those interested, Where Eagles Fly GC471TF.

[Rocky Red]

I had 3 caches archived that I placed over 10 years ago! I can bet this wonderful hobby of geocaching will be going downhill fast and it's a cryin' shame! People will be losing interest because of this change and also because it's too difficult and too time-consuming to find out exactly where State Trust Land is in areas where they want to place caches. I've totally given up this hobby now, as I'm sick of all the stupid rules and changes for the worst.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Rocky Red

[+rambrush]

Well you are not alone I had a number of caches archived..BUT I went out with Delorme Topo on my laptop and moved them off of there land and now I have had most of my caches reenabled. So don't give up this quick..

 

I had 3 caches archived that I placed over 10 years ago! I can bet this wonderful hobby of geocaching will be going downhill fast and it's a cryin' shame! People will be losing interest because of this change and also because it's too difficult and too time-consuming to find out exactly where State Trust Land is in areas where they want to place caches. I've totally given up this hobby now, as I'm sick of all the stupid rules and changes for the worst.