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Taking without trading. Not cool.


74vwBus

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My son(11 yrs old) and I have gotten into the Geocache madness within the past few weeks. We have been really enjoying ourselves. Found 59 caches so far and decided to hide our first.

 

So, we thought of a good place and placed our first cache. A small container with Log and 4 trade items. A vintage VW key, a VW Bug necklace trinket, and Matchbox VW Bus, and a small flashlight.

 

We placed the cache on the 16th. Went camping over the weekend and were totally stoked to see folks were already finding the cache. My son was excited to see what items people may be trading so far. So, we went to the cache and VERY disappointed to see that two of four of our items were taken. With NOTHING left in return. My son's face was about enough to make me wanna give up the hobby already. I can't express how disappointed I am that people would just take and not return.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

(Sorry. Had to vent)

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enough to make me wanna give up the hobby already.

You have to give up more than Geocaching to be rid of the problem. People who take everything don't limit this to Geocaching. They're your neighbors, so it will affect you regardless. It's not really a Geocaching issue. But it is a life lesson for your son.

 

It would be a good idea if, when people take any item, they log what they took, regardless of a trade (and if they place coveted item, maybe write that in the paper cache log only). And I almost never see such a log.

 

Even on this Forum, you see people suggesting many excuses to take items and NOT trade, and I'm one of the only people who will insist that's wrong. “Take it if it's too valuable, or if it's too inexpensive”, and anything in between :ph34r:. It's well-documented here, and frustrating that there's no pinned Topic to counteract that.

 

However, it would not bother me so much if someone were to place nice things later, in any cache. Let's say they didn't arrive with anything to trade. They log what they take anyway, and place a lot of nice things in caches to pay it forward.

Edited by kunarion
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I find you have to adopt a bit of a Santa Claus mentality when you plant a swag-size cache. Lots of cachers don't carry swag but if they see something cool maybe the temptation to have it wins out. It might be too embarrassing to admit in the log that they couldn't resist the vintage VW key despite not having a trade item.

 

Personally I love the swag aspect of this game, it was essential to the game in the beginning and I've always felt it was an important part of the appeal and charm. I hope you will continue to plant and maintain swag size caches despite the disappointment.

 

It could be that the people who took without trading don't know about that part of geocaching. New cachers can download the free app and start caching without knowing that cache swag is not akin to pirate's treasure - finders keepers. Perhaps a note inside the cache - 'Trade Up or Trade Even' may help. Or consider making your caches Premium Members Only. That way people visiting your cache should be more committed to the game and more likely have an understanding the basic guidelines and culture of this activity.

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...With NOTHING left in return...

Sorry to put it this way... but, that is your introduction to the "ME" society.

 

You will find that many folks don't have or apply the same standards you have or what you probably taught your children to have. 'Tis sad... but very true.

Don't expect too much from your brethren humans. At least that way, you will occasionally be surprised. :)

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You have to give up more than Geocaching to be rid of the problem. People who take everything don't limit this to Geocaching. They're your neighbors, so it will affect you regardless. It's not really a Geocaching issue. But it is a life lesson for your son.

 

That, sir, is the root of the problem. There are and have always been takers in the world.

 

To enjoy geocaching you need to appreciate how you got to the cache, not what you found in it.

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I wonder what would happen if you posted a note in the log about your experience finding that nothing had been left (not calling anyone out, explicitly, since I infer that there were some finders who did not take anything at all). Would the fear of shaming deter future finders from not trading fairly?

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As the saying goes, the best thing about geocaching is that anyone can play... and the worst thing about geocaching is that anyone can play. Personally, I try to leave at least something even when I remove trash or inappropriate items from a cache. But not everyone plays that way.

 

When I take kids on their first geocaching trip, I have to supervise their trades. Most of that has been keeping them from trading for trackables; they see the shiny baubles in their first geocache and forget everything I've told them about geocoins and TBs. But I'm sure some of them would take trade items without leaving anything in exchange if I let them.

 

And I've heard FTF hounds express the idea that the FTF can claim any item they want if the cache owner didn't leave a specific FTF prize. And I've heard the claim that no one really expects a fair trade for valuable trade items, so it's okay to take them as long as you leave something. And so on.

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Read you son this story - My radiator ran out of water and my engine over heated in the country where population is 2 people per square mile. I let the engine cool and added creek water. During this time (45 minutes) 3 People stopped and got out of their car to offer help, I was able to get 3 miles out of the creek water and stopped in front of a house to ask for more water. I didn't make it to the door when 2 folks came out to help. I got 4 miles the next time and stopped in a church parking lot and 6 people came to help and all offered to take me anywhere - got more water and finally got to a filling station with a phone and a parking area. While calling a friend for help 4 more people came to me offering help.

 

Sometimes we forget how many good people out number the bad - that was day to remember - no matter who you are you are going to need help and no matter who you are you can be the one to offer it - even if it puts you out.

 

Tell your son to just be proud of what he does right!

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My opinion- you want cheap toys, keychains, flashlights, etc. Go to your local dollar store.

 

You want to have fun searching for caches, see the cool camo and ingenuity in hiding caches, go to new places, have a hobby you can do almost anywhere with only having to carry a GPS, meet new people, get outside away from the computer, you can spend 3 minutes in a park you never knew about, three days on a trip to the top of a mountain and back for one cache, or find 500 caches in one day on a power trail -go geocaching.

 

What's that? The kids like to trade, and they want others to do so? Well by teaching them to let it slide, not make too big of a deal about it, and be the better person, by still placing caches with SWAG and trading up or even you are being a good parent. You are teaching them to lead by example, not whine until you get your way, or give up when something you don't like happens.

 

I personally don't trade or stock my caches anymore-that's my choice. As you can see by what I wrote, there's more to geocaching then cheap toys. So there are two things you can do--continue what you are, and stock caches, lead by example. Or focus on the other many good things, and just enjoy the experience. There really is not use in complaining about it, especially here where 99% of us will never even be near your caches.

 

And for the record, more and more, geocaches are getting smaller. Think the size of a pencil eraser. Barely enough room for the log. People are putting caches in toys now, not the other way around.

Edited by T.D.M.22
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There are two issues here, and it's important not to confuse them.

 

The first is the trade up or even question. That's just fair play, and people that don't follow it are rude. But that's an issue among seekers.

 

As a cache owner, you are giving that stuff away. You and your son were very generous to put those nice items in your cache, and you should be proud and honored that people enjoyed your swag. Avoid saying, "But what's in it for me?" because the only thing in it for you as cache owners are people enjoying your cache, not people putting things into your cache. Instead of being disappointed, you should be celebrating your success and thinking about whether you want to get some more VW stuff to add to the cache for the next finders. Not that restocking the cache is a requirement: you've already been quite generous just planting the cache, and even more so for stocking it the first time.

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Thank you very much for the great replies! You folks are completely right. I will focus on the good rather than the bad. Maybe and hopefully the first two folks did take a FTF memorabilia. That would be totally fine by me. I actually thought of FTF but had no idea what FTF items would be. Same as trade items? I don't have any special coins or collectibles. Other than my VW trinkets and collectibles of course.

 

And yes, I planned to simply put another vintage VW key in the cache and a VW Bug trinket....as I do have more of both.

 

Thank you for all the great input. We look forward to much more caching to come!

 

P.S. Is SWAG the same as trade items or is SWAG specifically geocaching related items? Getting my lingo down! :-)

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A little off topic, but what are acceptable trade items. I feel like I've found a lot of junk in them, which I don't mind. It's fun to take and keep to remember your find. I've been leaving hemp necklaces made with my handmade beads. I made them years ago and I love them, but have so many.

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A little off topic, but what are acceptable trade items. I feel like I've found a lot of junk in them, which I don't mind. It's fun to take and keep to remember your find. I've been leaving hemp necklaces made with my handmade beads. I made them years ago and I love them, but have so many.

 

Your necklaces and beads sound very cool! I would trade for them!

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I actually thought of FTF but had no idea what FTF items would be.

I've been adding an "FTF Certificate" to my new caches. It's based on a certificate image I found. I print it as small as an inch high for a bison tube. These certificates seem to go over pretty well. On a recent cache, I forgot to include a certificate, so I placed it into a tube hidden nearby, and sent the coords to the FTF, who made a trip out there to pick it up. :anicute:

 

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Swag degrades. This is one thing you will have to expect. In your case, it is highly possible that it was just 1 person that did this. Perhaps they had nothing to trade at the time, but will return.

 

You can't do much to avoid swag degrading, however, it does help to put your cache further up a trail. If it's a park and grab, the swag will degrade much faster than if they have to hike 3km.

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I have found something that helps is to make the cache a bit of an effort to get to, simple park caches get pilfered.

 

I actually saw a mountain summit cache that had a Hockey Jersey in it (had been there for over 3 years) untouched.

 

Making it a puzzle cache can help too. Does not even have to be a hard puzzle.. just enough to stop the cache raiders.

 

Shaun

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Ohh and here is another story...

 

My wife found an ipod in a cache once. She was going to take it, I pointed out we had nothing of that value to trade for it, so we left it.

 

A week later a flood took the cache away... and we had been the last to find it.. so there you go.

 

Shaun

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There is not a big problem with people taking something and not leaving anything. The problem is with people leaving broken or useless items, which is widespread. I really don't understand this at all. Somehow leaving anything justifies taking something useful? I don't think so. Honestly I'd prefer if these people left nothing.

 

A few years ago I had someone post an angry find on one of my caches, saying that they and their kid got muddy. Although it was completely avoidable, somehow this seemed to justify them taking a new object and leaving nothing. It didn't really bother me until I checked on the cache a few days later and found the wrapper on the trail.

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P.S. Is SWAG the same as trade items or is SWAG specifically geocaching related items? Getting my lingo down! :-)

 

SWAG, in the context of geocaching, refers to trade items. Items with travel bug tags, or geocoins (with tracking numbers) are not SWAG as they are not traded (they're moved).

 

Outside the context of geocaching, SWAG is a term used at various conferences, symposia, and other large professional gatherings. Typically, conferences will have an area set aside for vendor exhibits, demos, or "poster sessions". For example, at a software related conference a room or hallway will be set up with booths for vendors to tell you about their product and they'll typically have a table set up littered with pens, flyers, key fobs, and other various inexpensive items (all branded with their logo) that conference attendees can pick up while talking to the vendor. Those items are called SWAG. At many conferences, upon registration, everyone will get the conference schedule, name badge, and a bag (provided by a sponsor of the conference) to carry things around. Many call that bag a "swag bag".

 

 

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I can only try to influence my own kids and occasionally folks I am caching with, especially if I have their kids for the outing. My son knows he needs to trade in order to get something either by toys we buy for that purpose or using his own toys. We have a cool toy store in Seattle called Archie McPhees, has lots of toys a dollar or less that are more exciting than the boring army man. He is too young to trade up every time, I am often amazed at what he will consider a trade, often he is trading down (a spiderman action figure for a rubber band!), as long he trades something and its close enough, I am happy.

 

When we are urban caching, we pretty much forget about bringing swag with us but if I think a cache could be big enough, will try to remember something. Nothing wrong with adding swag just because.

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