+Crow-T-Robot Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 For me, boilerplate is boilerplate. Dress it up however you want, but any boilerplate message, whether it's generated by the app or a cut-n-paste log, really says the same thing: the cacher cared more about the smiley face than writing a log. If that's the case, I'll take the boilerplate rather than trying to force them into writing something they don't care to write. I don't get stressed out about it. If you're out there hunting smiley's, you'll find no shortage of opportunities on this site. If you want to write paragraphs, talking about your adventures and experiences, those tools are available to use. Just because you don't drop a three paragraph log on my cache, that doesn't mean my cache was a waste of time to hide or that you didn't enjoy finding it. Quote Link to comment
+NanCycle Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Maybe replace it with "I actually didn't sign the logbook, or even find the cache. Thanks anyway." for the default found it log. That way they would either have to put something, or we could delete the logs. Ha! I like that one!! Quote Link to comment
+Ben0w Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Force the user to do a input or don't let him log online (finding is still possible!). So easy to program. At least the "." or "TFTC" then is a user derived input, not a canned message letting the user look dumb. Quote Link to comment
+Car54 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Maybe replace it with "I actually didn't sign the logbook, or even find the cache. Thanks anyway." for the default found it log. That way they would either have to put something, or we could delete the logs. Ha! I like that one!! Genius! Mrs. Car54 Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 For years I have been posting 'I blame the smart phones' as a somewhat snarky somewhat serious response to a number of threads in these forums. I think it's a 100% accurate response in this case. I've been a ranter since the smartphone apps came out. It was probably 2009 it came out for the iphone, but it was in the winter/spring of 2010 when I had a conversation with another cacher who asked "why are all these newbies logging our caches with Tftc"? And I said "you're right, why are they, what's up with that"? That conversation really happened. And I would like to point out my only problem EVER with the smartphone revolution is the lame logging. Two words or less, often manifested by Tftc. I don't know what it is man, but it's to the point where lame logging is universal for newbies. And I wouldn't doubt 95%+ of newbies are finding and logging with a smartphone. Quote Link to comment
+UMainah Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) What if the default log text was something like: "Replace this text with what you would like say to remember this geocache experience." At least then, if they replaced with something as simple as "TFTC" it would be them choosing to not expand on their thoughts. "Thanks so much, that's one more cache for me" gives the impression that it is perfectly expected for them to just send the default message without any reason to write their own message. Force the user to do a input or don't let him log online (finding is still possible!). So easy to program. At least the "." or "TFTC" then is a user derived input, not a canned message letting the user look dumb. See post #40 in this thread. This is essentially what they've done in their new Android Intro app. Hopefully they update their iPhone Intro app soon with this feature to have a consistent experience regarding logging. Edited April 29, 2014 by UMainah Quote Link to comment
+Walts Hunting Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think another cause of lame logs is the sheer quantity of caches available now and that is exclusive of power trails. When I started in 2004 I would get a few in a day and then go home and write up the logs. Even then I would often write the first one and then copy/paste it to subsequent one but I would add something about each particular find. Now on a short 10 mile bike ride I come across almost 50 all the time even in a mostly residential area. Most of them are a micro/nano in a tree/shrub/something else and are not worth a individual comment. I do use GSAK to log them all and i do recap my day in the log and on the rare occasion that I find one that is worth writing something I do. I don't believe the requiring a validated email before logging (which I support) is going to have much impact on the quality of logs. It is to difficult to do a log on a phone so the TFTC will continue. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Except they aren't really logging the cache. They are allowing the App to do it. They probably don't even know what a cache log is. Or what the cache is. They hit one of my few non PMO caches and logged it as find even though they didn't really find it. And I met one intro app user who accidentally logged a find on a cache twice. Quote Link to comment
spaceface3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 For years I have been posting 'I blame the smart phones' as a somewhat snarky somewhat serious response to a number of threads in these forums. I think it's a 100% accurate response in this case. I've been a ranter since the smartphone apps came out. It was probably 2009 it came out for the iphone, but it was in the winter/spring of 2010 when I had a conversation with another cacher who asked "why are all these newbies logging our caches with Tftc"? And I said "you're right, why are they, what's up with that"? That conversation really happened. And I would like to point out my only problem EVER with the smartphone revolution is the lame logging. Two words or less, often manifested by Tftc. I don't know what it is man, but it's to the point where lame logging is universal for newbies. And I wouldn't doubt 95%+ of newbies are finding and logging with a smartphone. Quote Link to comment
spaceface3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Hello noob here. I am so thankful that when I started I reviewed the forums. Otherwise I wouldn't have known about all the newbie no no's. In regard to logging, I do write about my experience because I am excited and want the CO to know that I appreciate them and get their hints. But if I didn't read the forums and only went by previous loggers examples I would be one of the naughty noobs. I see many many experienced cachers write TFTC only, on every log they write (the ones I see). I see many old timers do this. I also see some with the same wording on every log, long para about their trip or day but nothing about cache. Could it be that noobs see these experienced cachers doing this and maybe they think that is the preferred way? Logging by example. Also if it is an option on the app why would a noob do it differently? Noobs just want to fit in. Everyone was a "stupid 6th grader" at one time. A sincere thanks to all who made this a fun game for this newbie! Quote Link to comment
+T.D.M.22 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 As for why do it different when you don't have to, well the fact that you can do it different should mean that you should. If it was meant to be the same why would we have the option of changing it? Actually if it was the same why would we even have an online log at all. We'd just have found it. No logs, no comments. So what it comes down to is being lazy and not caring. You have said you're a newb and came to the forums- that's open for everyone else as well, so there's no other reason for people. It to know... Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Hello noob here. I am so thankful that when I started I reviewed the forums. Otherwise I wouldn't have known about all the newbie no no's. In regard to logging, I do write about my experience because I am excited and want the CO to know that I appreciate them and get their hints. But if I didn't read the forums and only went by previous loggers examples I would be one of the naughty noobs. I see many many experienced cachers write TFTC only, on every log they write (the ones I see). I see many old timers do this. I also see some with the same wording on every log, long para about their trip or day but nothing about cache. Could it be that noobs see these experienced cachers doing this and maybe they think that is the preferred way? Logging by example. Also if it is an option on the app why would a noob do it differently? Noobs just want to fit in. Everyone was a "stupid 6th grader" at one time. A sincere thanks to all who made this a fun game for this newbie! Thanks for checking in. We are known to be grumpy around here. Experienced cachers logging TFTC only? I've not seen it. I'm no world traveler, but I have finds in 15 States and 1 Province. If by experienced cachers, you mean joined within a year or two with a few hundred finds, or the extremely rare one that slips through cracks with 1K+ (also a year or two in) without getting a clue about logging ettiquette, I wouldn't call them experienced cachers. I'd call them very casual cachers, that haven't interacted socially with any "experienced cachers". Edited May 7, 2014 by Mr.Yuck Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 What if the default log text was something like: "Replace this text with what you would like say to remember this geocache experience." At least then, if they replaced with something as simple as "TFTC" it would be them choosing to not expand on their thoughts. "Thanks so much, that's one more cache for me" gives the impression that it is perfectly expected for them to just send the default message without any reason to write their own message. Maybe replace it with "I actually didn't sign the logbook, or even find the cache. Thanks anyway." for the default found it log. That way they would either have to put something, or we could delete the logs. It's not just the Intro App that has a canned log. I see a lot of identical logs like "Wow, we found a whole bunch of caches today and this might be one of them!", posted by non-Intro cachers. Quote Link to comment
+TeamRabbitRun Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It's not just the Intro App that has a canned log. I see a lot of identical logs like "Wow, we found a whole bunch of caches today and this might be one of them!", posted by non-Intro cachers. Anybody know where THIS ONE is coming from? Quote Link to comment
+mvhayes1982 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) It's not just the Intro App that has a canned log. I see a lot of identical logs like "Wow, we found a whole bunch of caches today and this might be one of them!", posted by non-Intro cachers. Anybody know where THIS ONE is coming from? If I had to guess, I'd say that kunarion is talking about the mass logging that is done through programs like GSAK, where a cacher finds a few dozen caches in a day, and they log on EACH one is identical... "Out with BobCacher, JimCacher, and BettyCacher today on a run through Louisville, grabbing challenges, oldies, and a few multis. The day was hot, but our skills were hotter and we found everything we looked for. Thanks for placing these caches for us to find." When Geowoodstock was in Louisville in May 2012, just after I started caching, I found logs like this on ALL KINDS of caches. Makes it very difficult for a new cacher to a) get any clues from logs on WHAT the heck I might have been looking for, and B ) gives the WRONG idea on what (in my opinion now) logging a cache should look like. I still see plenty of logs like this. At this point, I just laugh. edit: to change into B ) ... OOPS Edited May 9, 2014 by mvhayes1982 Quote Link to comment
+6NoisyHikers Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It's not just the Intro App that has a canned log. I see a lot of identical logs like "Wow, we found a whole bunch of caches today and this might be one of them!", posted by non-Intro cachers. Absolutely. Some long-time, "experienced" cachers do just this on cache series in our area - cachers with thousands of finds. Granted, they compose a log that is at least 20 or 30 words long, but it's still automated. Of course, so is the description of each cache in the series. And each container is the same. So maybe like begets like? Sigh. Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) I hope they feel the trip was worthwhile, and it's kind of an honor when people select my cache over the many others in the area. So I won't complain. But a canned log sometimes makes me wonder... maybe they were very unimpressed... You know, while I'm thinking about it, I'd better go check on that one... Edited May 9, 2014 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Now the evil intro app users are causing Landowners to contact Groundspeak and have caches removed and archived. Just came in as a notification. And I'm just kidding, of course. Quote Link to comment
+biggles1024 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 When I do a run, at least 30 caches, I write a single, brief paragraph describing the run which i place in all my logs but then write one or more paragraphs describing the getting to and finding of that particular cache. I write up my logs in GSAK because I find it's editor much more user friendly than the website. It's also easier to manage trackables in GSAK than on the website for me. Quote Link to comment
+K13 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm sitting around the house tonight, watching TV and reading through a few forums and threads. This thread is number 38 of the 63 I have perused tonight. Thanks to everyone who started these threads for my reading (and occasional posting) Quote Link to comment
+6NoisyHikers Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 When we do a series of caches, what we find works well for us is to open a Word document. We start typing the story of our adventure, using the "bullet" feature to number each paragraph. The number of paragraphs equals the number of caches in the series. Then I cut and paste each paragraph into its corresponding cache log (with pictures too). The paragraphs connect to each other, like a story does, so on their own, a log won't necessarily be of much use to a future finder - but really, few people are reading those anyway. The person that matters most in this case is the CO, and I hope he/she gets enjoyment of receiving 40 emailed installments of our adventure. For example: PRED01 PRED02 PRED03 PRED04 Quote Link to comment
+TopShelfRob Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm sitting around the house tonight, watching TV and reading through a few forums and threads. This thread is number 38 of the 63 I have perused tonight. Thanks to everyone who started these threads for my reading (and occasional posting) Thanks so much for this post! That's one more read for me! Quote Link to comment
+Car54 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 A week or so after we got a boilerplate log from a noob on one of our hides, we got a non-boilerplate DNF from another noob. I'm going to head out there this week and check on it. If it's truly gone, it would be the second time and I will probably archive it. If so, I'm thinking of writing, "That's one less cache for me to maintain. Thanks for letting me know." Mrs. Car54 Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I've been getting plenty of boilerplate logs to my caches lately. But maybe that's better than the log I just got on one of my caches: Ndmxmx I think this one takes the cake. Quote Link to comment
+DragonsWest Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Here, use this. Satisfaction not guaranteed. Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Here, use this. Satisfaction not guaranteed. This is the site I've always used for my cache logs, and nobody's ever complained (or noticed): http://randomtextgenerator.com/ Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've been getting plenty of boilerplate logs to my caches lately. But maybe that's better than the log I just got on one of my caches: Ndmxmx I think this one takes the cake. It probably wasn't THIS intro app thread, but I've reported that within the last month. That would be random characters thumbed out on a smartphone in 30 milliseconds, because anything else would be too much trouble. Noticed a non-validated, never visited the website newb logging an Earthcache that same way a few days before a recent vacation to Virginia. These are their last 5 logs: Bah (Traditional with 105 favorite points) puma (Traditional with 119 favorite points) shalcna (.50 cal ammo box in a park I found 5 days before them) Xhwlcna (Virtual with 50 favorite points) Snlzcbajf (Earthcache referenced above with 16 favorite points) It's a new world out there, isn't it? Quote Link to comment
+NanCycle Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've been getting plenty of boilerplate logs to my caches lately. But maybe that's better than the log I just got on one of my caches: Ndmxmx I think this one takes the cake. It probably wasn't THIS intro app thread, but I've reported that within the last month. That would be random characters thumbed out on a smartphone in 30 milliseconds, because anything else would be too much trouble. Noticed a non-validated, never visited the website newb logging an Earthcache that same way a few days before a recent vacation to Virginia. These are their last 5 logs: Bah (Traditional with 105 favorite points) puma (Traditional with 119 favorite points) shalcna (.50 cal ammo box in a park I found 5 days before them) Xhwlcna (Virtual with 50 favorite points) Snlzcbajf (Earthcache referenced above with 16 favorite points) It's a new world out there, isn't it? If I got any of those logs on any of my caches, they would be deleted forthwith. Quote Link to comment
+TeamRabbitRun Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 If I got any of those logs on any of my caches, they would be deleted forthwith. NanCycle, I'm right there you, displeasure-wise as I stated way up above. But, while these knuckleheads don't enhance my overall caching experience by giving me what I consider reasonable feedback on my caches (and I think less of them for that), you can't really invalidate their find because of 'bad form'. We talk a lot about 'playing the way you want', so when you get one of these dolts leaving random carp on your cachepage, by all means look down on them, feel sorry for them because there are parts of the game they're missing (or WILL miss), and hide more stuff for me. Because I'LL thank you. Quote Link to comment
+TopShelfRob Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Do you give them a day or two to convert the "hkahdkh" into a real log? I'm not saying it's the case in these cases, and if they leave it like that they should be deleted. But sometimes when I'm out in the field with a smartphone and have to make a hasty retreat, I'll log some placeholder text. Sometimes it's just "TFTC" or something else short, but sometimes if I'm really in a hurry and/or with a spotty connection, it's just some random characters. Then when I get home at the PC, I'll edit it into a proper log. Deleting it "forthwith" might get rid of a log that intended on fixing it when they were at the computer. Agreed, most of these probably don't know any better, though. Edited May 16, 2014 by TopShelfRob Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 If I got any of those logs on any of my caches, they would be deleted forthwith. NanCycle, I'm right there you, displeasure-wise as I stated way up above. But, while these knuckleheads don't enhance my overall caching experience by giving me what I consider reasonable feedback on my caches (and I think less of them for that), you can't really invalidate their find because of 'bad form'. We talk a lot about 'playing the way you want', so when you get one of these dolts leaving random carp on your cachepage, by all means look down on them, feel sorry for them because there are parts of the game they're missing (or WILL miss), and hide more stuff for me. Because I'LL thank you. Agreed, we can't delete logs just because they're bad form. But in the case of an account that has not been validated, whose profile says they've never visited the website, I'm thinking you could get away with it, I don't know, about 100% of the time. Quote Link to comment
+NanCycle Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 From the Help Center: OWNERS It is one of your maintenance duties as the geocache owner to monitor quality control of posts to the geocache page. To this end, you have the power to delete logs. There's an awful lot of leeway here. Of course, if the logger contacted TPTB to have their log "vbnmgfhj" reinstated, I'd really have to laugh. Quote Link to comment
+Ben0w Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Just delete the log with a reason, i.e. "Too much spoiler" or else. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't like those logs either, but a "dfhkh" log isn't much different than TFTC, or a multicolored copy and paste paragraph of the day's events. None of them say anything about the cache at all, and can be compared to a bronzed turd, a pig in lipstick, or a nicely painted Yugo. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't like those logs either, but a "dfhkh" log isn't much different than TFTC, or a multicolored copy and paste paragraph of the day's events.I disagree. A "TFTC" log or a copy-paste log describing the day's events is most likely intentional. But to me, a "dfhkh" log or a "." log or a blank log seems likely to be unintentional pocket-logging. Is apparent pocket-logging "bogus" or "otherwise inappropriate"? Is apparent pocket-logging therefore worthy of being deleted? I'm not sure, but it's questionable enough that I would contact the person who posted the log, just to verify that they actually intended to post that log. Assuming they have a validated email address, of course. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't like those logs either, but a "dfhkh" log isn't much different than TFTC, or a multicolored copy and paste paragraph of the day's events.I disagree. A "TFTC" log or a copy-paste log describing the day's events is most likely intentional. But to me, a "dfhkh" log or a "." log or a blank log seems likely to be unintentional pocket-logging. Is apparent pocket-logging "bogus" or "otherwise inappropriate"? Is apparent pocket-logging therefore worthy of being deleted? I'm not sure, but it's questionable enough that I would contact the person who posted the log, just to verify that they actually intended to post that log. Assuming they have a validated email address, of course. That sounds like a good excuse for deleting them, but the logs likely are intentional from someone who is not familiar with TFTC. I've unintentionally pocket dialed a few people from my address list, and from the list of recent calls on my phone, and I've also created waypoints accidentally from leaving my GPS in my back pocket, but I've tried to pocket log a cache, and it isn't easy or likely in any event. I've also posted my fair share of terse logs, as well as modified copy and paste, as well as modified generic logs. Mine are lousy due to being late, or just not having enough time. Plus what in the heck is anyone expected to write on a LPC? Due to the increasing high density of geocaches, as well as generic spam caches, the fact is that log quality is only going to get worse. Those cachers who post multicolored copy and paste logs would like you to believe that they are better than the "kjjfkj" loggers, but they aren't. Quote Link to comment
+TxStrawberryCreek Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Lots of great comments here -- my thanks to all of you for some thought-provoking ideas. To the person who suggested the Serenity Prayer, your response is exactly why, in my original post, I said I approached this subject with no small amount of trepidation. I'm not nearly so torqued about these logs as merely broaching the subject might make me seem. It's good to see new folks come into geocaching. I think what I'm the most upset about is that there doesn't seem to be a good way to reach newbies to let them know that telling a little bit about their experience is better than a log that someone else has written. No one is saying that every cacher has to write a book about every cache find. As I wrote originally, having the boilerplate in the Intro app is fine, but maybe they could program into that app that when a newbie has found maybe 15, 20, 30 (pick a number), that boilerplate switches to a suggestion that they write a little bit about the circumstances of the find. Certainly it could be worked in that it was a requirement to enter that window and write _something_ before being able to hit the "Send" button. Anyway, who puts what on a log is not keeping me from my own enjoyment of caching. Four friends and I are going out tomorrow morning with a list of over 40 caches to find, and we'll have a blast, I guarantee it. We'll pick some good place to have lunch, and we'll laugh all day long. Then I'll come home and write some logs that, with any luck, will bring a smile to a cache owner's face. I hope you all have great caching weekends as well. See you around. Elaine Poe TxStrawberryCreek Quote Link to comment
+Ben0w Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) I just tested the intro app on iPhone with a new, unverified account and it doesn't let me log, when I'm not writing something on my own. Instead after a brief explanation what to do with the log/cache it gives me a greyed field including a (slightly wrong spelled - german language version) suggestion what is expected. When starting to type, this given text vanishes. No boilerplate logs anymore?! I think that's the right direction. Even if "." logs will arise again. Edited May 31, 2014 by Ben0w Quote Link to comment
+repcosy Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Hi everyone now I'm going to open up now and be prepared for all the criticism I get here... Being a relative newbie myself when I first started I was unsure what kind of things you were supposed to write so I regularly wrote... TFTC. Or found this cache fab hide thank you! I have recently been reading more and more on the website as we love this activity and recently I have been writing more in depth logs... I may write a short one when were out and edit it when I get home. Now having our own cache I see what you mean they make a nice read for the owner of the cache. I will always put more thought into the log and even maybe get the kids to do it from time to time! Apologies all around Edited May 31, 2014 by repcosy Quote Link to comment
+NanCycle Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Hi everyone now I'm going to open up now and be prepared for all the criticism I get here... Being a relative newbie myself when I first started I was unsure what kind of things you were supposed to write so I regularly wrote... TFTC. Or found this cache fab hide thank you! I have recently been reading more and more on the website as we love this activity and recently I have been writing more in depth logs... I may write a short one when were out and edit it when I get home. Now having our own cache I see what you mean they make a nice read for the owner of the cache. I will always put more thought into the log and even maybe get the kids to do it from time to time! Apologies all around No criticism from this corner. All kudos to you because you made the effort to learn and improve. Hope you and the kids continue to enjoy this fun activity. Quote Link to comment
+SwineFlew Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I will stop using boilerplate log when the reviewers stop using theirs. Quote Link to comment
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