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I approach this topic with no small amount of trepidation. I fear that I may come off more crabby than I really am. I refer to a growing number of logs from a variety of people, all containing the same words: "That’s one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache." These logs seem to come from folks with a very few finds under their belts.

 

While I feel that these logs are better than "tftc," it's only the tiniest bit better. I imagine it's suggested verbiage from (perhaps) the free Geocaching app, and it's good if it gives newbies the idea that they should write a few words about their experience. What I wonder is does the app with this suggested language begin to suggest other language after the 10th or 20th find, or even suggest the finder make up some language of their own?

 

I really don't want to give any new cacher the idea that I think I'm better than them, but these logs that lack thought are beginning to get under my skin. I wish there was a way to gently persuade cachers to tell a little bit about the circumstances of their find.

 

OK, off my soapbox. Love to hear other folks chime in on this one.

 

Elaine Poe

TxStrawberryCreek

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Make sure your loggings contain a bit more. That way, when the verbiage challenged see them, they will (maybe) get the clue. Also, if you're involved with a "How to" meet & greet, you might bring that up.

These folks rarely seem to come to the website, and probably don't read others' logs. And their emails aren't validated, so you can't send 'em a friendly greeting and suggest they personalize the logs.

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Anything's better than the caching team here that logs everything with...

 

wait for it....

 

:)

 

Seriously, though, I haven't got many of the intro app logs yet. I supposed it would get annoying if it happened frequently on caches that I'd put alot of time into.

 

Maybe just make your caches premium-member only? That will cut down the newbie logs.

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I have a better solution than making your cache PMO--just make a short multi or puzzle. It could be as simple as two film canisters in two successive lamp poles, but if it is anything besides a traditional it won't show up in the intro app.

 

That or hiding caches in non-urban areas.

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Except they aren't really logging the cache. They are allowing the App to do it. They probably don't even know what a cache log is.

 

And they are ignorantly blissful and you're all stressed out.

 

Too many people worry too much how too many others play the game.

Edited by Roman!
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Their ignorance is the issue. My stress is very minimal, and in this case caused more by the App not coaching the user to write about their cache-finding experience. Making caches PMO will solve the stress from the ignorant noobs, whether they are blissful or not.

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Their ignorance is the issue. My stress is very minimal, and in this case caused more by the App not coaching the user to write about their cache-finding experience. Making caches PMO will solve the stress from the ignorant noobs, whether they are blissful or not.

So you have to pay to be a smart geocacher? I don't think so. I can enjoy geocaching without blogging on line about my experience.

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While I feel that these logs are better than "tftc," it's only the tiniest bit better.

I actually think it's significantly worse than "TFTC" since it accentuates the numbers, and the thank-you is absurdly insincere. But don't blame it on the geocachers since, as others have mentioned, they probably don't even notice what the message is and might not know that others are reading it. It's the app developer that should get the guff. These messages annoyed me the first couple times I saw them until I realized the people filing the logs had nothing to do with the messages. Then I recognized them as just another vacuous find report.

 

And I have no trouble with TFTC or other vacuous find reports. If you're setting caches so people can praise you in their logs, then stop setting caches. You should be setting caches because people like to find them. Naturally it's nice to get compliments, but I always felt presumptuous when I caught myself thinking that people owe me a log because they found my cache, so I stopped.

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While I feel that these logs are better than "tftc," it's only the tiniest bit better.

I actually think it's significantly worse than "TFTC" since it accentuates the numbers, and the thank-you is absurdly insincere. But don't blame it on the geocachers since, as others have mentioned, they probably don't even notice what the message is and might not know that others are reading it. It's the app developer that should get the guff. These messages annoyed me the first couple times I saw them until I realized the people filing the logs had nothing to do with the messages. Then I recognized them as just another vacuous find report.

 

And I have no trouble with TFTC or other vacuous find reports. If you're setting caches so people can praise you in their logs, then stop setting caches. You should be setting caches because people like to find them. Naturally it's nice to get compliments, but I always felt presumptuous when I caught myself thinking that people owe me a log because they found my cache, so I stopped.

 

I don't know how you can get that after the explanations from many people here in the forums.

 

I don't want longer logs because I want to be complimented. I want to share in their experience. I placed a cache that I enjoyed placing. I share that experience in the cache description. I'd like to hear about their experience in their cache log. It's a way of connecting with others, and you can't get that from TFTC.

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I don't want longer logs because I want to be complimented. I want to share in their experience. I placed a cache that I enjoyed placing. I share that experience in the cache description. I'd like to hear about their experience in their cache log. It's a way of connecting with others, and you can't get that from TFTC.

 

I fully agree. I prefer a log that tells me that someone found my cache boring, disappointing when an explanation is provided to a TFTC log. I also appreciate to read about negative experiences (weather, little misfortunes etc).

 

I'm happy that up to now all finders of my most recent cache have shared their experiences with text and/or photos. This way future finders get a picture of what to expect.

That's so much nicer than a colony of logs that only tell the obvious that the cache has been found.

 

Cezanne

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Except they aren't really logging the cache. They are allowing the App to do it. They probably don't even know what a cache log is.

 

And they are ignorantly blissful and you're all stressed out.

 

Too many people worry too much how too many others play the game.

WOW That's a first. I whole heartily agree with you!!!!! If people would not try to impose their vision of how this hobby should be played by others and stick to their enjoyment a lot ol angst would go away as well as considerably less knicker bunching.

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For years I have been posting 'I blame the smart phones' as a somewhat snarky somewhat serious response to a number of threads in these forums. I think it's a 100% accurate response in this case.

No, only about 33% accurate. It should be "the GS smart phone intro app."

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The smartphones brought us TFTC logs. The intro app at least made the log longer. It is important to keep in mind that this is a business and those that spend all their time lamenting that "It isn't the way it used to be" and thinking that there is some higher goal than find, sign, log should keep the Serenity prayer in mind.

 

Since it is a businss it means the primary goal is to increase its customer base and all the changes; smart phones, intro app, power trails etc are aimed towards that. While it may be true that a few will stop putting out caches or even leave the hobby because it is no longer "pure" there will be many to replace them.

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Ground$peak is a business, yeah, we all know that. As a business hoping to remain successful, I would think they would like feedback about their new product. If one particular 'feature' of that new product causes angst with the current customers, they may want to revise that 'feature'. There are several suggestions made here to tweak the product to help the new customers learn about this hobby, and some tweaks to help placate those who find issues with the current App's default 'log'.

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I don't want longer logs because I want to be complimented. I want to share in their experience. I placed a cache that I enjoyed placing. I share that experience in the cache description. I'd like to hear about their experience in their cache log. It's a way of connecting with others, and you can't get that from TFTC.

 

I fully agree. I prefer a log that tells me that someone found my cache boring, disappointing when an explanation is provided to a TFTC log. I also appreciate to read about negative experiences (weather, little misfortunes etc).

 

I'm happy that up to now all finders of my most recent cache have shared their experiences with text and/or photos. This way future finders get a picture of what to expect.

That's so much nicer than a colony of logs that only tell the obvious that the cache has been found.

 

Cezanne

 

Add me to the list of cache owners who agree with the above sentiments.

 

It's logs like this that motivate me to hide and maintain:

 

5c266241-0228-48c2-9a60-9aaf1835ce34.jpg

Visited with the geo pooch in this great area. I'm not from the area so I had no idea this was a leash free area until I saw a sign halfway in. I let her off to have a good run. Poor squirrels of the area :D. Nice easy find and as I do with all dog themed caches I let the geo pooch partake in the container opening. Thanks for the cache in a great area!

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I don't want longer logs because I want to be complimented. I want to share in their experience. I placed a cache that I enjoyed placing. I share that experience in the cache description. I'd like to hear about their experience in their cache log. It's a way of connecting with others, and you can't get that from TFTC.

That's an argument for encouraging and celebrating nice logs. It's not an argument for saying vacuous logs are bad. If every "TFTC" or "That’s one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache," makes you regret hiding the cache, you'd probably be happier if you didn't hide caches.

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For years I have been posting 'I blame the smart phones' as a somewhat snarky somewhat serious response to a number of threads in these forums. I think it's a 100% accurate response in this case.

Geocaching really promoted the sales of GPS units to join in on the new hobby. Now those that want to give geocaching a try already have a smartphone. :)

Before making my listings PMO I did see an increase of short term geocachers. B)

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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

 

Probably not. The only thing that we can be hopeful for (and I'm sure it's already been suggested) is that there's a splash screen of some sort in the future that encourages "intro app" newbies to share their full experience before they have the opportunity to post the default intro app log.

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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

I definitely think there could be a better default. I claim that the person writing the default log -- i.e., the app developer -- should reflect in it what he knows about the find, and that's just one thing: "Logged using Intro App." Both logs are vacuous, but my suggestion is to acknowledge that it is, indeed, vacuous. The current default pretends to be meaningful, cheerful, and sincere even though it obviously isn't any of those things. That's what I find annoying.

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In response to all of you that say things like "Nobody owes you a log", and "Don't worry about how others play" I reply "Baloney".

 

Although I don't have many caches hidden (three, with a few more on my workbench), I put thought, time and money into that part of the hobby so that the rest of we hobbyists have something to seek.

 

Because of that, and because other hiders do the same for me, I feel that I absolutely OWE cache owners a log. I think it's the height of rudeness to consume other people's work with no regard to what went into it. Not even an acknowledgment or an explicit 'thank you'?

 

Do you not leave tips for wait staff? Do you not say 'thank you' when someone stops to hold a door open for you?

 

I owe the owners of each and every cache I find some type of consideration, out of common courtesy if for no other reason.

 

As far as 'worrying about how others play', I'm usually the one trumpeting that in these forums. BUT, this is different than, for example, worrying about people that 'find' their own caches or count re-finds twice. In THIS case, 'how they play' affects 'how I play'. Hiding caches is part of how I play, and I don't hide caches in 'fire-and-forget' mode. The satisfaction I get from FINDING is to be able to say "Got One!", and the satisfaction I get from HIDING is to be able to say "Yay; I gave someone a good experience!" Without a log, or with a mindless tftc, I don't get that.

 

Why hide caches if nobody seems to care whether I do, or not?

 

I know there's nothing to be done about the smartphone app users who don't even know that they're logging and don't have a validated email beyond exhorting GS to:


  1.  
  2. Provide NO default log text, and
  3. REQUIRE email addresses!!!),

but by everyone else who just posts a smiley face, a "tftc" or just a ".", I get frustrated.

 

Have I ever filed a "tftc" log? Maybe one or two. Does that make it right? No.

 

When you find a crappy cache, I'll bet you feel cheated. "THERE'S ten minutes I'll never get back!"

Well, I feel similarly when the other side of the transaction isn't fulfilled.

 

Don't have time to leave a good log? That's up to you, but this is how that decision affects me.

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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

 

I definitely think there could be a better default. I claim that the person writing the default log -- i.e., the app developer -- should reflect in it what he knows about the find, and that's just one thing: "Logged using Intro App." Both logs are vacuous, but my suggestion is to acknowledge that it is, indeed, vacuous. The current default pretends to be meaningful, cheerful, and sincere even though it obviously isn't any of those things. That's what I find annoying.

 

Exactly. I'd rather have obviously vacuous then disingenuous. The original message back in January 2014 was : I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. I think that message was actually preferable.

Edited by L0ne.R
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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

 

I think that putting the focus on "one another find" and thus numbers is the worst example that could be provided to beginners.

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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

 

I think that putting the focus on "one another find" and thus numbers is the worst example that could be provided to beginners.

 

^^^^ This ^^^^

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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

 

I think that putting the focus on "one another find" and thus numbers is the worst example that could be provided to beginners.

 

^^^^ This ^^^^

 

Trust me, I don't condone the default log, nor to I think this one is any better than the next. I do, however, believe that for the time being, it's not going to change and there's going to be a default intro app log whether we like it or not.

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While I can agree with all of the negativity towards the "that's one more find for me" log, here's a question to ask ourselves - Is there ever going to be any default log that comes with the intro app that we'll ever deem acceptable?

 

I think that putting the focus on "one another find" and thus numbers is the worst example that could be provided to beginners.

 

^^^^ This ^^^^

 

Trust me, I don't condone the default log, nor to I think this one is any better than the next. I do, however, believe that for the time being, it's not going to change and there's going to be a default intro app log whether we like it or not.

 

The brand new Intro app for android doesn't have a default log. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=317127&view=findpost&p=5371073

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<snip>

 

I know there's nothing to be done about the smartphone app users who don't even know that they're logging and don't have a validated email beyond exhorting GS to:

  1. Provide NO default log text, and
  2. REQUIRE email addresses!!!),

but by everyone else who just posts a smiley face, a "tftc" or just a ".", I get frustrated.

 

<snip>

 

If instead of NO DEFAULT LOG, the App had a note telling the user to "Tell about your caching adventure here:, or some other statement to encourage the user to write a log, and NOT allow the App to progress to the next step until some type of log was entered.

 

and definitely require a validated email address to use the App.

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If instead of NO DEFAULT LOG, the App had a note telling the user to "Tell about your caching adventure here:, or some other statement to encourage the user to write a log, and NOT allow the App to progress to the next step until some type of log was entered.

 

and definitely require a validated email address to use the App.

 

This is exactly what the new android Intro app does. It has no default log. Just a note that says "Now share your story and say thanks to the geocache creator. Pro tip: Try not to leave any spoilers in your log!"

It then doesn't let you post a log until you put something in the field.

 

You can however use the app without validating your email though.

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Why hide caches if nobody seems to care whether I do, or not?

This is a reasonable question, but the question I hear being asked here is, "Why hide caches if everyone isn't delighted that I did?"

 

...but by everyone else who just posts a smiley face, a "tftc" or just a ".", I get frustrated.

You hid a cache, and the log tells you they enjoyed it enough to go find it and sign the log. That should be a positive, not a frustrating negative, even though you naturally enjoy logs describing the seeker's experience much more.

 

Don't have time to leave a good log? That's up to you, but this is how that decision affects me.

It's your decision that's affecting you.

 

Don't get me wrong: nice logs are great, and I'm one of the more verbose loggers in my area. Encouraging people to write nice logs and explaining how much you like that kind of log is all very nobel. But telling someone that they owe you a log is presumptuous, and it accomplishes nothing except to make both you and the seeker enjoy the cache less.

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If instead of NO DEFAULT LOG, the App had a note telling the user to "Tell about your caching adventure here:, or some other statement to encourage the user to write a log, and NOT allow the App to progress to the next step until some type of log was entered.

 

and definitely require a validated email address to use the App.

 

This is exactly what the new android Intro app does. It has no default log. Just a note that says "Now share your story and say thanks to the geocache creator. Pro tip: Try not to leave any spoilers in your log!"

It then doesn't let you post a log until you put something in the field.

 

You can however use the app without validating your email though.

 

Wow, it seems TPTB listened to the members here in the forums about the default log issue. WAY TO GO, Groundspeak!

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I am a noob. *gasps of disgust can be heard from the gentry class* I am hoping to find my first cache today! *Some of the more delicate flowers swoon and faint away*

 

Please be kind enough to show some patience while I learn how all this works and how to best meet your expectations. I don't yet have the benefit if your experience or fine breeding, but perhaps I might someday earn a place amongst you... Well, probably not that, but I might be at least tolerated. "Oh no, it's him again... Jeffy, hide the fine silverware until he is gone. That's a good lad."

 

Heh heh - I'm just yanking your chains a bit. I know this isn't an issue for a lot of you. But seriously, noobs will do what noobs do until they learn better. Encourage them in a positive way. Express how much you enjoy and appreciate their efforts and I suspect you will be rewarded. Sadly, there will always be noobs and those that do the minimum effort, but please don't let them sour your enjoyment! Let not your happiness be dampened by the goobers of the world. Take joy in those that go the extra mile to make you smile.

 

If you don't... I will find your cache and log only an emoticon smiley face. (And maybe leave a pen if one is needed.) I am so very very cruel... and ruthless. Mustn't forget ruthless. :) :) :) <------See what I mean! There are more emoticons where those came from! Muhahahaha!

 

Oooof, I wish I hadn't come into the forums before hunting up my first cache. Now I'm all anxious and nervous. Will they find my log worthy? Will they go in forums to talk about how terrible I am? Ack! Maybe I should just quit before I anger the gentry class.

 

Perhaps I've spoken out of turn. If so, I apologize. I'm a noob, I don't know any better.

Edited by CrushedEmber
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Well said CrushedEmber!

 

As you no doubt know, Forums can be a very silly place, and the Geocaching Forums are no exception. The General Topics Forum, which you've stumbled into, is probably one of the sillier sections (although Off Topic might be a good runner up). The Moderation tends to be on the lite side, unlike the Getting Started and How Do I? subforums, which have fairly strict code of conduct ethics towards beginners (i.e. "noobs"). Don't be put off by some of the posts. Much of it is "letting off steam" type of stuff.

 

Best of luck on your cache Finding!

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Also to CrushedEmber:

 

I think you have already achieved much of what most cachers wish that 'noobs' would at the start.

 

You have a GC account, it seems that you have properly completed validation (since my test message via the profile was started without incident... don't look for it I cancelled ), and you have managed to come to the forums to look around and I assume you have done some other reading on the sites as well... congrats and welcome aboard.

 

Most concerns are about people who never get even that far, since unvalidated email addresses leave people with no way to contact 'noobs', same for people who use dummy email accounts that never get read. In other words no way for anyone to advise about normal ways to play, or gently chastise about inevitable 'gaffs' for that matter.

 

Now my 'advice' for today, for you... Get out there and find some caches! Theory is fine, but finding is better. Then it makes some sense. I never thought about the sound advice of looking for easy caches first, since there weren't many to chose from anyway... so I simply assumed that I was going to have problems with the harder ones. And I did, but I tried one or two a day anyway for the practice and experience (didn't have any local mentors either). Try all levels, but mostly stick to easier caches at first, try all types as well.

Then you will progress steadily.

edit: wording correction only

Doug 7rxc

Edited by 7rxc
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Thank you for your kindness :) I know my post was a little cheeky and I meant it a light hearted tweak. Most folks do seem fairly nice here and I look forward to cache hunting and making new friends.

Thanks again and take care!

Your post made me smile. I hope that you continue to contribute to the forums. :)

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I am a noob. *gasps of disgust can be heard from the gentry class* I am hoping to find my first cache today! *Some of the more delicate flowers swoon and faint away*

 

Please be kind enough to show some patience while I learn how all this works and how to best meet your expectations. I don't yet have the benefit if your experience or fine breeding, but perhaps I might someday earn a place amongst you... Well, probably not that, but I might be at least tolerated. "Oh no, it's him again... Jeffy, hide the fine silverware until he is gone. That's a good lad."

 

Heh heh - I'm just yanking your chains a bit. I know this isn't an issue for a lot of you. But seriously, noobs will do what noobs do until they learn better. Encourage them in a positive way. Express how much you enjoy and appreciate their efforts and I suspect you will be rewarded. Sadly, there will always be noobs and those that do the minimum effort, but please don't let them sour your enjoyment! Let not your happiness be dampened by the goobers of the world. Take joy in those that go the extra mile to make you smile.

 

If you don't... I will find your cache and log only an emoticon smiley face. (And maybe leave a pen if one is needed.) I am so very very cruel... and ruthless. Mustn't forget ruthless. :) :) :) <------See what I mean! There are more emoticons where those came from! Muhahahaha!

 

Oooof, I wish I hadn't come into the forums before hunting up my first cache. Now I'm all anxious and nervous. Will they find my log worthy? Will they go in forums to talk about how terrible I am? Ack! Maybe I should just quit before I anger the gentry class.

 

Perhaps I've spoken out of turn. If so, I apologize. I'm a noob, I don't know any better.

 

If you write a log that is anything like your first post in the forums, you have nothing to worry about :)

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What if the default log text was something like: "Replace this text with what you would like say to remember this geocache experience."

 

At least then, if they replaced with something as simple as "TFTC" it would be them choosing to not expand on their thoughts. "Thanks so much, that's one more cache for me" gives the impression that it is perfectly expected for them to just send the default message without any reason to write their own message.

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What if the default log text was something like: "Replace this text with what you would like say to remember this geocache experience."

 

At least then, if they replaced with something as simple as "TFTC" it would be them choosing to not expand on their thoughts. "Thanks so much, that's one more cache for me" gives the impression that it is perfectly expected for them to just send the default message without any reason to write their own message.

 

Maybe replace it with "I actually didn't sign the logbook, or even find the cache. Thanks anyway." for the default found it log.

 

That way they would either have to put something, or we could delete the logs.

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