This IRKS me

[+emmett]

.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

 

Actually, it is well known that many, if not most, cachers don't give a crap about the caches they find. They don't re-hide them properly and they plunder the stash. Cache owners are responsible for reasonable maintenance. Cache finders are responsible for reasonable care of the caches they find. The OP is pointing the finger in the wrong direction as are you.

 

.

[cezanne]

Caching appeals to a wide variety of people. Geocaching began with swag, swag was a big part of what defined geocaching.

 

While there have been little trinkets in many of the early caches in my area, this never played a defining role and most of the cachers stopped to trade very soon.

This had the effect that typically trading items stay for years inside a container which does not contribute to improve their condition.

 

I guess one of the reasons why I preferred geocaching in the way it was in the early years was that it was dominated by outdoor types.

It is not a well filled cache at an IKEA store that makes me enthusiatic. It is the hike of length a few miles that makes me enthusiastic.

 

How many people want to climb a mountain because there's a summit register at the top? It definitely would not have appealed to me as a lone female, because I found wandering through the woods rather stressful (I eventually built up my confidence via geocaching).

 

I never ever climbed a mountain because of the summit register - most of the time I do not even add an entry in such registers.

I climb mountains for the view up there, for the nature experience and for the endorphines that it creates in me to cover height meters and to be physically active.

 

It was the "treasure" hunt aspect that made the activity charming, and appealing. I don't even do that much trading - but I love pawing through a well-maintained cache with swag. To remove that aspect is to remove one part of the equation from geocaching.

 

I believe you that it is part of the equation for you, but that's not true for everyone.

 

I do my best to maintain my caches in a reasonable way, but whenever I place a new cache or replace the container of an old cache I start with no swag. Experience taught me that this is the best way to go in my area.

 

My most recent cache has been found by 11 adults (ages ranging from around 30 to 80) and no children so far. I'm aware of further 5 adults who want to go for it.

Some of these cachers have children in the child age, but none of them would take along the kids for such a cache.

None of the cachers who visited my cache is into trading and carries along trading items. Most not even take along trackables (I do!).

 

In my experience the fewer items are in a cache and in particular the fewer items that are not packed into plastic, the

cleaner the contents of the container will stay. Log books in my area are very often packed into ziplock bags while trading items are

almost never protected which means that they get dirty easily. That can well be different in different areas. It is just my personal experience in more than 11.5 years of

geocaching both with my own caches and with caches by other owners (I tend to visit a number of caches multiple times over the years).

 

 

Cezanne

Edited April 15, 2014 by cezanne

[4wheelin_fool]

.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

 

Actually, it is well known that many, if not most, cachers don't give a crap about the caches they find. They don't re-hide them properly and they plunder the stash. Cache owners are responsible for reasonable maintenance. Cache finders are responsible for reasonable care of the caches they find. The OP is pointing the finger in the wrong direction as are you.

 

You both are. The OP was not necessarily asking cache owners to refill containers with nice swag. It was a general complaint about wet containers, lousy swag, and leaving them out in the open. This is about both finders and hiders.

 

 

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding.

 

In another thread someone was berated for posting NAs on hides that they did not visit, although it was fairly obvious that they needed maintenance for many months, or were missing. This is how these piles of geogarbage occur, as plenty of people find ways to defend them.

Edited April 15, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+L0ne.R]

I'm guessing it's more about caches like this:

 

 

Wet, messy swag. Some of the contents are decent but have been ruined or made less attractive by poor choice of a container (leaky dollar store box) and lack of maintenance. The owner has abandoned the cache (my guess is it was a vacation cache, since this was cottage country). I would have given this a favorite point since the location was very pleasant. But the contents of the cache is not something I would recommend to anyone, particularly a family with children.

[RedShoesGirl]

 

The message is quite simple: If one believes that taking care of the swag in a container is part of the cache owner's job, then most cachers would be able to

hide and maintain only caches that are relatively close to their home or working place and do not require long walks to reach the container.

 

I know no one who would want to go for an hour drive (one way) and a hike of four hours just to remove two McDonalds toys that are not any more complete. That's ridiculous and not in the

interest of those for whom such caches are hidden.

 

Cezanne

 

if i remember correctly, the early guidelines were do not place a cache that was too far away to maintain regularly. do not place caches on vacation where you can't get to back easily to maintain it. it was suggested like 50 miles or something.

 

today's guidelines simply say "Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You will need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area negatively, and to check that the container is in good shape."

 

it doesn't say place a cache and walk away leaving it for others to take care of.

 

how is one to know that your cache is one for whom it was hidden? and like it or not, swag was the original intent of geocaching. sure that has assumed less importance, but to say all caches should be swag-less is silly and basically arrogant.

 

so yes, it is your responsibility to maintain your cache regularly. and if that involves a long drive and hike, well, you hid the cache in that location. have respect for the cache and location to make sure all is ok condition.

 

you don't like swag. then put a big note in the cache description "NO SWAG ALLOWED!" make it a nano and all will be well.

[cezanne]

I'm guessing it's more about caches like this:

 

 

Wet, messy swag. Some of the contents are decent but have been ruined or made less attractive by poor choice of a container (leaky dollar store box) and lack of maintenance. The owner has abandoned the cache (my guess is it was a vacation cache, since this was cottage country). I would have given this a favorite point since the location was very pleasant. But the contents of the cache is not something I would recommend to anyone, particularly a family with children.

 

As long as we are not provided with examples, we can only speculate about which types of caches it is.

 

I have encountered many not abandoned caches with decent containers (real lock and lock, ammo boxes) where the swag was messy while the log book and the interior of the container was perfectly dry.

 

If the containers contain swag, I encounter more often things like needles and small portions of earth/dirt in the containers than for caches that do not contain swag which is easily explained by the fact that if there is swag, it is touched numerous times and typically dropped several times. I'm also guilty of having dropped the trading items of some caches quite a number of times. Often I'm glad to be able to put them back into the container at all in difficult terrain - that's not the right point of time for cleaning actions and it appears that's the case also for others.

 

Cezanne

[RedShoesGirl]

I'm guessing it's more about caches like this:

 

 

Wet, messy swag. Some of the contents are decent but have been ruined or made less attractive by poor choice of a container (leaky dollar store box) and lack of maintenance. The owner has abandoned the cache (my guess is it was a vacation cache, since this was cottage country). I would have given this a favorite point since the location was very pleasant. But the contents of the cache is not something I would recommend to anyone, particularly a family with children.

 

totally understand. i have cleaned out more than one of that kind of cache. i put on note in the online log that basically said the cache had a poor container, contents were wet and the container needed to be changed out to remedy the situation or remove the cache. a duct taped coffee can is a poor choice. first, duct tape doesn't seal a container and the metal cap rusted to almost the point of not being able to get the lid off.

 

bluntness was not appreciated. CO was pissed off. another reason to stop geocaching except for extraordinary caches. but gosh, in the old days i went to some good ones. with cool sig items!

Edited April 15, 2014 by RedShoesGirl

[+basscat5]

.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

 

Actually, it is well known that many, if not most, cachers don't give a crap about the caches they find. They don't re-hide them properly and they plunder the stash. Cache owners are responsible for reasonable maintenance. Cache finders are responsible for reasonable care of the caches they find. The OP is pointing the finger in the wrong direction as are you.

 

.

I didn't stereotype hiders or point a finger at anyone....I am just asking for clarification on who has ultimate responsibility for the Cache.....And as far as maintenance it is the owner.....Just as you stated...... For you to lump all players into "most don't give a crap about the Cache" is weak at best....

 

A quick Google search....My link Clearly shows that the "Swag" is important to a large number of players.......Not saying that Swag is the owners responsibility but it does play a role in why many people play the game....

Edited April 15, 2014 by basscat5

[+CanadianRockies]

The OP was not necessarily asking cache owners to refill containers with nice swag.

Actually, the OP kinda was:

 

People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding.

[+emmett]

.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

 

Actually, it is well known that many, if not most, cachers don't give a crap about the caches they find. They don't re-hide them properly and they plunder the stash. Cache owners are responsible for reasonable maintenance. Cache finders are responsible for reasonable care of the caches they find. The OP is pointing the finger in the wrong direction as are you.

 

.

I didn't stereotype hiders or point a finger at anyone....I am just asking for clarification on who has ultimate responsibility for the Cache.....And as far as maintenance it is the owner.....Just as you stated...... For you to lump all players into "most don't give a crap about the Cache" is weak at best....

 

 

I provided the clarification. The problem you speak of is mostly caused by cache finders not lazy cache owners. I did not lump "all" players into the don't give a crap category. I said many, if not most, cachers. That's what I sense after placing 75 caches with more than 200 stages and visiting most of them on a fairly regular basis.

 

I see that you have not hidden so much as one cache, so you are really in no position to comment on this. You simply don't have the facts. Go out and place some caches and put some decent swag in them. Come back in six months and we can talk.

 

.

[+basscat5]

.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

 

Actually, it is well known that many, if not most, cachers don't give a crap about the caches they find. They don't re-hide them properly and they plunder the stash. Cache owners are responsible for reasonable maintenance. Cache finders are responsible for reasonable care of the caches they find. The OP is pointing the finger in the wrong direction as are you.

 

.

I didn't stereotype hiders or point a finger at anyone....I am just asking for clarification on who has ultimate responsibility for the Cache.....And as far as maintenance it is the owner.....Just as you stated...... For you to lump all players into "most don't give a crap about the Cache" is weak at best....

 

 

I provided the clarification. The problem you speak of is mostly caused by cache finders not lazy cache owners. I did not lump "all" players into the don't give a crap category. I said many, if not most, cachers. That's what I sense after placing 75 caches with more than 200 stages and visiting most of them on a fairly regular basis.

 

I see that you have not hidden so much as one cache, so you are really in no position to comment on this. You simply don't have the facts. Go out and place some caches and put some decent swag in them. Come back in six months and we can talk.

 

.

 

If you read the entire post you would see that I stated right up front that I haven't hidden a cache and why.......Basically I don't want to do it half a**ed.....That is why I am here... to educate myself on the whys and why nots before I jump in with both feet but alot of the info seems to conflict...I guess it is like finding..Everyone has their own way of interpreting the game and the way they choose to play...If I choose to keep a highly maintained Cache loaded with Swag that is on me...If someone else wants to keep a different level of maintenance and appeal I guess that is up to them....

 

...Don't understand why never placing a Cache would invalidate my opinion...but OK...I've never been in Politics either but believe me I have an opinion there...

 

From my earlier post on the first page

 

I guess just like anything else in Geocaching everyone has a different way in which they play and percieve the "Game"..(which is Ok..)...and probably why I haven't posted a Cache yet..(plan on doing one soon)...When I post a Cache I want it to be something positive for the finder and since it basically has my name on it will take some pride in the maintenance and would hope it appeals to all ages........I would hope to have "eyes on" a traditional larger cache that I placed at least once a month...

 

Edited April 15, 2014 by basscat5

[+Ambrosia]

Just out of curiosity, what do you view as a longer hike that is not kid friendly? When my kids were 5 and 8 years old, we went on a hike (found one cache) that was 8 miles long.

 

Of course it also depends on the route and the kids. Two typical examples of longer hiking caches that I do not regard as kid friendly are my most recent cache (around 16 km which is around 10 miles) and this cache

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4K7VZ_raabklamm-einmal-klein-einmal-gross (around 22 km which is around 13,67 miles). For the latter one we had a 10 year old kid with us, but it was quite boring for the kid in major parts of the route.

 

Length is only one parameter. It also depends on what can be seen/experienced along the route, whether the trails offer adventures and many other aspects.

 

In any case, I do not own a cache that I would call kid friendly.

 

Cezanne

Ah, ok. Thanks!

[+Ambrosia]

So if a Cache owner places a cache with no swag when does the trading start???.

 

Quite simple: When cachers show up who think that they do something good to the cache or future finders when they leave swag.

 

If an owner wants his cache to be swagless he could put that in the description...

 

That does not help as most modern cachers do not read the description.

 

Part of the fun of placing a cache to me seems to be putting something cool in the Cache for the FTF..

 

Definitely not for me. First, I do not care about first to finds at all and second, for me caching is about hiking,

learning to know new places or interesting facts and not about swag. I can buy whatever I want in a shops and get there

exactly what I want.

 

Cezanne

 

Caching appeals to a wide variety of people. Geocaching began with swag, swag was a big part of what defined geocaching. If it had originally been only summit-type register logs, I doubt it would have had the mass appeal. It might have been interesting to people who were already outdoor types and liked the idea of registering their expeditions by signing a log. It likely wouldn't have appealed to the couch potato or children who would rather play nintendo. How many people want to climb a mountain because there's a summit register at the top? It definitely would not have appealed to me as a lone female, because I found wandering through the woods rather stressful (I eventually built up my confidence via geocaching).

 

It was the "treasure" hunt aspect that made the activity charming, and appealing. I don't even do that much trading - but I love pawing through a well-maintained cache with swag. To remove that aspect is to remove one part of the equation from geocaching.

Funny, I've always loved summit registers. They fascinated me, and I had to find them when I hiked. When I first found out about geocaching, that's right where my mind went.

[RedShoesGirl]

.If I choose to keep a highly maintained Cache loaded with Swag that is on me...If someone else wants to keep a different level of maintenance and appeal I guess that is up to them.......

 

not really. the only ethical choice is if you want to put swag in or not. level of maintenance is not. it is expected you maintain the cache well and not let it go down hill because that is the way you want to play the game. it is so very simple. place a cache, maintain it on a regular basis, keep it clean — how hard can that be?

Edited April 15, 2014 by RedShoesGirl

[+Ben0w]

not really. the only ethical choice is if you want to put swag in or not. level of maintenance is not. it is expected you maintain the cache well and not let it go down hill because that is the way you want to play the game. it is so very simple. place a cache, maintain it on a regular basis, keep it clean — how hard can that be?

ACK!

 

I own three caches: an unknown with no pre-loaded swag in a very small box (cache coords have to be calculated on a very simple way, no real riddle), a traditional with small swag items in a small box and a multi stage cache marked as family friendly (very short hike) with a regular sized box and some good swag.

 

From the finders of the multi I regularly get excited logs about the size of the box, the nice swag and how the kids loved it. The swag is traded there, even or up. Log entries for the traditional small box don't mention the swag or size, mostly the location. The swag rarely gets traded, sometimes the original wrapped new items I provided were traded against used toys. The unknown box obviously isn't object to family cachers plus still contains no swag.

 

I make maintenance checks once in a while (every three months or so) and yet have to see any big issues. All of the boxes are lock'n'locks, no plastic bags involved.

 

From a searcher's point of view: I mostly don't mind swag. My 7 y/o doesn't much, either - despite the occasional really cool toy or star wars figure. I carry some small trade items with me for that. He LOVES to put his stamp signature in the logbook, so he doesn't like nanos or small log stripes.

 

So my conclusions are:

- it's a matter of the theme and given attributes

- it's a matter of box size and quality (easy to open/close, water proof)

- it's maybe a matter of the stash note - mine is reduced to the basics ("don't take it away, hide it exactly as found, log in book and online, trade family friendly and even"), laminated and glued on the cover of the box, serving as a reminder.

- we have a lot of friendly cachers here, trading fair (one even came back later to replace a thing his kid took out) AND providing good log entries. Thank you!

- don't overestimate kid's "commercial" view on things. Sure they are suspicious and love a good toy, but there are a lot of interesting things on a cache trip other than that. A good "family time" is a value for itself. Kids understand if there is nothing or crap inside, at least it's a bit of lecture on life itself.

 

Speaking of cache condition/maintenance, I think a big issue is the actual hiding spot: covered from weather/sun, not in a water hole, very unique and easy to re-hide exactly where found. Plus not needing stealth when getting to the box and it's contents may reduce hectic and thus improves handling etiquette.

[+jampoi]

If geocaching is becoming "boring" and "a waste of time" simply because the cache doesn't have nice swag inside, you just may be geocaching for the wrong reasons and searching for the wrong geocaches.

[+jampoi]

You have totally missed the point. I don't give a hoot about the swag. It is my grandchildren who do. When I take them on a long drive and a long walk to find some of these things I want them to enjoy the adventure. They are too young to care about scenery and nature, they want a find a treasure when they open a container. The part I like is the look on the children's faces when they find something they want to keep. But when it is has next to nothing in it or it is full of nastiness they are disappointed and so am I.

The very last one we went to was literally a trash dump and not safe for kids or adults. It was disgusting and I said so in my comments.

If you don't have anything relevant to say please stay out of the conversation.

[+Ambrosia]

You have totally missed the point. I don't give a hoot about the swag. It is my grandchildren who do. When I take them on a long drive and a long walk to find some of these things I want them to enjoy the adventure. They are too young to care about scenery and nature, they want a find a treasure when they open a container. The part I like is the look on the children's faces when they find something they want to keep. But when it is has next to nothing in it or it is full of nastiness they are disappointed and so am I.

The very last one we went to was literally a trash dump and not safe for kids or adults. It was disgusting and I said so in my comments.

If you don't have anything relevant to say please stay out of the conversation.

I'm not exactly sure who you're responding to. A lot of these posts have been relevant.

 

I understand what you are talking about, little kids like to find things in caches. But a lot of their attitude comes from how you react. If you emphasize that the treasure isn't just the stuff inside the cache, they'll adopt that attitude.

 

I'm not sure how young your grandchildren are, but kids should be able to enjoy scenery and nature, no matter how old they are.

[4wheelin_fool]

You should look for recently hidden caches (in the last month or so) which are regular size, and that should be better.

[+K13]

You have totally missed the point. I don't give a hoot about the swag. It is my grandchildren who do. When I take them on a long drive and a long walk to find some of these things I want them to enjoy the adventure. They are too young to care about scenery and nature, they want a find a treasure when they open a container. The part I like is the look on the children's faces when they find something they want to keep. But when it is has next to nothing in it or it is full of nastiness they are disappointed and so am I.

The very last one we went to was literally a trash dump and not safe for kids or adults. It was disgusting and I said so in my comments.

If you don't have anything relevant to say please stay out of the conversation.

 

Which cache was this? Your last 20 traditional cache finds, dating back to September of last year had logs with little more than "TFTC TNLN".

The glaring exception to this was your log on 9/15/13 of

Watch out for the poison ivy! It is all through the area.

Pretty easy find.

TFTC

 

If you are going to claim to write logs commenting about poor caches, you should be able to show those logs. Or has it been over 6 months since you took the Grandkids along? If so, why wait so long to voice your complaint?

[+WarNinjas]

I love geocaching until I come to these forums! Just kidding.

[+Ambrosia]

[+Crow-T-Robot]

The very last one we went to was literally a trash dump and not safe for kids or adults. It was disgusting and I said so in my comments.

 

If it was so disgusting, why didn't you just turn around and leave? You could've taught your grandchildren that the cache was in a trash heap and there was no reason to even bother looking for one there.

[cezanne]

You have totally missed the point. I don't give a hoot about the swag. It is my grandchildren who do. When I take them on a long drive and a long walk to find some of these things I want them to enjoy the adventure. They are too young to care about scenery and nature, they want a find a treasure when they open a container. The part I like is the look on the children's faces when they find something they want to keep. But when it is has next to nothing in it or it is full of nastiness they are disappointed and so am I.

 

I understand that little kids like to find swag, but you cannot expect that nice swag is waiting in the caches (many of which have not even been hidden with kids in mind). So why don't you try to do what a very experienced cacher suggested to you in posting #9? Of course your own surprise would go away in that case, but the glare in the eyes of the children would still be there.

 

Do you selectively choose the caches you visit with your grandchildren or just take them along to the caches you would like to visit on your trips? That can make a huge difference. It is not the best idea to take children to caches they will not enjoy in its own right and then hope that the cache owner has provided something in the container that recompensates the children.

 

Getting children out in the nature and away from PC games, TV etc is a recommendable thing to do, but you need to take into account that not every cache is hidden with little children in the focus. I also have to accept that a huge number of caches in my area have a final which is hidden at the most difficult to reach location within 100m while many nice and also muggle safe hideouts would exist in the vicinity. For the hiders and their target audience this is not an issue, for me it is. I have to adapt and either fight myself to the hideout or turn around.

SOme of the caches I have a personal issue with are also not to recommended for families with small children. So selecting the right caches plays a huge role. This involves a lot of work at home by the selecting person.

I wonder how much time you invest into preparation or whether you just choose caches spontaneously on your trips without having read the logs, looked at the photos, the description, the attributes etc.

 

 

 

The very last one we went to was literally a trash dump and not safe for kids or adults.

 

I'm an adult and would have turned around.

 

Was the cache classified as kid-friendly? Did the previous logs say something about the location?

It might be that the trash showed up later and the cache owner does not even know it.

In times of TFTC logs this can easily happen.

 

Cezanne

[+Car54]

Hi, jampoi, from a fellow Hoosier! Of the 9 active cache hides of ours, 5 were placed with swag. 3 are earthcaches and one is a micro. We respond promptly to any reports of problem with containers or logs, but swag? Not so much. If we're making a maintenance run anyway, we may update the swag, but we also may not. We actually have very similar concerns to yours. Our oldest grandaughter - currently 17! - used to go caching with us when she was 6-8 years old. We carried swag with us back then, as did she. If there was swag in the cache, we helped her make a good choice about what would be considered a fair trade. If there was no suitable swag in the cache, she could trade with us. That worked out well for us as she was guaranteed to be able to trade - but Grandma & Grandpa had to be willing to put some effort into it. Two of our grandchildren - ages 6 & 8 - were actually caching with their dad in your area last weekend. How many kid-friendly, swag-filled caches have you hidden for them to find and enjoy? Actually, they had a blast and are looking forward to "interviewing" us at Easter dinner about caching, since we've been doing it for longer than they have been alive!

Edited April 16, 2014 by Car54

[+ByronForestPreserve]

It's interesting that one of the common topics at the forums is that people place micros out in the woods in places that would easily support a regular or even large size. Swag must be at least part of the reason folks want larger caches in remote places. (Or maybe for trackables?) Otherwise, it wouldn't really matter, and in fact smaller containers could be more easily hidden in a clever manner.

 

Me, I like finding a good, clean cache, even though I rarely take anything. I do clean and fill them when possible, however, partly in the hopes that people will copy what they see. As far as CO responsibility vs. finders--ideally if the cache starts out with decent swag, it should stay that way. Rarely is that the case. COs know it, and I think that's also part of the reason there are so many micros in the woods--less responsibility, because there's always someone who will put in a new log eventually. If you click that "kid friendly" attribute, though...check up on it every once in a while, yeah? Anyhow...reading this forum prompted me to add to my (soon-to-be-published) cache page that the container will be filled and cleaned on a regular basis, and is meant to be an easy, family-friendly find. Of course, it's easier when I work at a forest preserve and the cache is a stone's throw from my office.

 

It's easy to say that we wish caches stayed in good shape, but then we all need to do things to promote that: posting NM and NA logs, commenting more than TFTC, and the like. And I'll chime in that requiring an email verification for the intro app seems like a good idea. Maybe in the near future, when folks sign up, the one minute intro to geocaching video will start to play automatically (and they could add a quick word about trackables).

[+The_Incredibles_]

I wonder how much time you invest into preparation or whether you just choose caches spontaneously on your trips without having read the logs, looked at the photos, the description, the attributes etc.

 

The very last one we went to was literally a trash dump and not safe for kids or adults.

 

I'm an adult and would have turned around.

 

Was the cache classified as kid-friendly? Did the previous logs say something about the location?

It might be that the trash showed up later and the cache owner does not even know it.

In times of TFTC logs this can easily happen.

 

 

Exactly. When planning an outing with kids, it's up to you to pick a nice area, read the logs ahead of time, maybe even do Google Streetview. Bring a pocket full of swag in case the swag is no good. If you don't do that, well, then it might be a disappointing outing.

 

I have taken my own kids and other people's kids out many times. The best thing is just to have a group of kids. They will run and play with each other and have fun while the adults talk and search for the caches. If we find a cache with bad swag, I just toss some swag from my pocket on the ground and let them pick something. Because I've picked a nice location and a good group of people, we're all going to have a good time regardless of the content of the cache.

Edited April 16, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

[+jampoi]

Some "useless junk" may have been put there by other children. Often, the little ones may leave a stone or a leaf to replace what they removed. I've seen such items in some of my caches. I agree that the kids should be more excited about the adventure of finding a cache rather than what's inside of it.

[+jampoi]

If a child puts a leaf or stone in a cache then the adult in charge is not doing their job and that is to teach children responsibility. You do not take someone elses things even if that is what it is there for unless they put something of equal or greater value in return. Isn't that what adults are supposed to do?

[+jampoi]

People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding.

A cache owner does not have a duty to serve as a free version of Wal-Mart, Dollar General and McDonalds for little boys and girls.

 

I stock my caches to the brim with new trade items when they're hidden. Trade items are usually of interest to new geocachers and geocachers with kids. Within a year the contents are reduced to gum wrappers, broken toys and expired coupons. So, the OP's wrath should be directed at new geocachers and at geocachers with kids. I did my part as a cache owner; the rest is left to the "trade up or trade even" ethic.

 

Tip when geocaching with small children: carry several trade items in your pack or coat pocket. When the cache is found, insist that an adult must open the container (for safety reasons). If it's low on swag, slip in trade items from your secret stash, which you were holding in your other hand.

[+jampoi]

If I am not mistaken the rules state that a cache should not be hidden so far away from the owners residence that they wouldn't be able to maintain the cache effectively. I believe a cache should be checked at least once a month at the very least. And it is clear that is not happening. So many logs I have found are completely full of entries that people have to write on the smallest blank space they can find. If a cache has old coupons, broken toys and gum wrappers the owner is not doing their job. Even if they don't replace swag they have a duty to at least clean and maintain the cache.

[+Psychaesthetic]

If I am not mistaken the rules state that a cache should not be hidden so far away from the owners residence that they wouldn't be able to maintain the cache effectively. I believe a cache should be checked at least once a month at the very least. And it is clear that is not happening. So many logs I have found are completely full of entries that people have to write on the smallest blank space they can find. If a cache has old coupons, broken toys and gum wrappers the owner is not doing their job. Even if they don't replace swag they have a duty to at least clean and maintain the cache.

 

For a guy playing a free game, who hasn't taken the responsibility for even one, single cache himself, you certainly are demanding.

 

And on a more metaphoricaly-inclined sidenote: By teaching your grandkids the only thing that matters is what they get to take you're infecting them with the kind of mentality that isn't going to do them any good in the long term. Of course, your acting like a petulant child about it is a whole other issue ..

 

I wonder who cares more about the swag: the kids, or you?

[+The Leprechauns]

People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding.

A cache owner does not have a duty to serve as a free version of Wal-Mart, Dollar General and McDonalds for little boys and girls.

 

I stock my caches to the brim with new trade items when they're hidden. Trade items are usually of interest to new geocachers and geocachers with kids. Within a year the contents are reduced to gum wrappers, broken toys and expired coupons. So, the OP's wrath should be directed at new geocachers and at geocachers with kids. I did my part as a cache owner; the rest is left to the "trade up or trade even" ethic.

 

Tip when geocaching with small children: carry several trade items in your pack or coat pocket. When the cache is found, insist that an adult must open the container (for safety reasons). If it's low on swag, slip in trade items from your secret stash, which you were holding in your other hand.

If I am not mistaken the rules state that a cache should not be hidden so far away from the owners residence that they wouldn't be able to maintain the cache effectively. I believe a cache should be checked at least once a month at the very least. And it is clear that is not happening. So many logs I have found are completely full of entries that people have to write on the smallest blank space they can find. If a cache has old coupons, broken toys and gum wrappers the owner is not doing their job. Even if they don't replace swag they have a duty to at least clean and maintain the cache.

Know what IRKS me? People who can't master the quotey thingy. I am assuming that your post, right below your empty quote of my post, was intended to be a reply to my post.

 

Have a look at the logs on The Elves' Caches are Dinosaurs, which I hid as a tribute to and commentary on "old style" caches: a nice hike in the woods to a large container stocked with goodies that are fun for the kids. A six year old would enjoy the hike down the trail, especially when discovering the ruins of an old oil drilling venture in the middle of the woods.

 

Many of the logs talk about how much fun it is to find a big, dry cache full of toys. There are no mentions of any maintenance concerns. The cache has earned a few favorite points. Tell me again why I need to check on this watertight, well-stocked container once each month? There is no such rule, guideline or community ethic.

 

I have not visited this cache since the day I hid it, back in Fall 2008.

Edited April 17, 2014 by The Leprechauns

[+The_Incredibles_]

I believe a cache should be checked at least once a month at the very least.

 

Once a month?

 

How about hiding some of your own, checking on them every couple weeks, then come back on here and tell us how its going.

[4wheelin_fool]

You can certainly check your own caches every 28 days if you like, but one of the things that irk me are short TFTC logs. None of my micros have ever had any inappropriate swag either.

[cezanne]

It's interesting that one of the common topics at the forums is that people place micros out in the woods in places that would easily support a regular or even large size. Swag must be at least part of the reason folks want larger caches in remote places. (Or maybe for trackables?) Otherwise, it wouldn't really matter, and in fact smaller containers could be more easily hidden in a clever manner.

 

I have not hidden any micro and will stay with this decision, but not since larger containers offer space for swag, but since they offer space for trackables and something what could be called log book. Moreover larger containers they are easier to find - I have not interest into hiding my caches in a clever way. They should be hidden from muggles, but very easy to find for cachers.

[cezanne]

If I am not mistaken the rules state that a cache should not be hidden so far away from the owners residence that they wouldn't be able to maintain the cache effectively. I believe a cache should be checked at least once a month at the very least. And it is clear that is not happening. So many logs I have found are completely full of entries that people have to write on the smallest blank space they can find. If a cache has old coupons, broken toys and gum wrappers the owner is not doing their job.

 

Are you serious? You expect owners of hiking caches that are in good condition to go for a hike of several hours once a month to take out expired coupons? I would feel very ashamed to ask an owner of a nice hiking cache that I enjoyed a lot to visit the cache to take out old coupons and such stuff. This is something which is the least I as a visitor can contribute to thank the cache owner and for me it does not mean an extra visit to the cache when I'm there anyway.

 

Under normal circumstances I'm able and willing to take care of each of my caches that needs maintenance within a month, but I clearly would neither be able nor willing to visit each of my caches once a month. I do not even visit all of them once a year. It would get extremely boring to go for the same hikes so often and under such premises hardly anyone would hide hiking caches and we would end up with even more caches on parking lots of supermarkets that are located on the hider's daily way to work.

 

Without people willing to invest time to hide and maintain caches there would be no caches to search for. Note that there are cache owner with 100+ caches in good condition. They could give up their job if they had to do what you seem to consider as a rule.

 

Cezanne

[+jampoi]

I can understand that it may be frustrating to find caches poor shape.

 

One more thing you can do is to write interesting logs detailing your adventures and letting the cache owners know you appreciate their efforts. For a cache owner that's still "around" this might encourage them to maintain their caches better than if everybody's writing TFTC on their cache.

 

I had a look. Ackkk. TFTC-only logs. I agree that effort goes both ways. A log describing the visit to the cache is far more encouraging. As a CO it's the people who comment specifically about our cache(s) and say how they enjoyed the swag, who motivate me to maintain our caches and regularly replenish the supply.

[+jampoi]

The only reason to tell lies is to bolster a false argument which makes you a liar. I went through all my logs and yes there are some TFTC comments but certainly not any more than a lot of other commenters. If a find warrants a better description I will post it.

If you always look only for the negatives you will always find it. What a pathetic life that must be.

[+Team Microdot]

The only reason to tell lies is to bolster a false argument which makes you a liar. I went through all my logs and yes there are some TFTC comments but certainly not any more than a lot of other commenters. If a find warrants a better description I will post it.

If you always look only for the negatives you will always find it. What a pathetic life that must be.

 

 

I thought the point of the forums was to spread the word and have discussions is it not?

 

Unless people disagree with your viewpoint or offer constructive suggestions which would require you to take some positive action?

[+Team Microdot]

If you always look only for the negatives you will always find it. What a pathetic life that must be.

 

Can you feel the irony?

[+Ambrosia]

The only reason to tell lies is to bolster a false argument which makes you a liar. I went through all my logs and yes there are some TFTC comments but certainly not any more than a lot of other commenters. If a find warrants a better description I will post it.

If you always look only for the negatives you will always find it. What a pathetic life that must be.

L0ne.R didn't say that you *only* post TFTC logs, only that you *have* TFTC only logs.

 

I'm thinking that this thread is going down the tubes, because you just don't want to have respectful conversations with people. Calling them liars and saying that they have pathetic lives is not helpful to anyone.

[+The Leprechauns]

Percentage of the OP's logs over the past seven months that have consisted solely of "TFTC" or "TFTC/TNLN:" 65% (The other 35% had one additional sentence.)

 

Number of my 5,440 "found it" logs over the past 12 years that have consisted solely of "TFTC" or "TFTC/TNLN:" zero

 

Average length of my 5,440 "found it" logs: 109 words.

 

I enjoy writing those stories, both to keep a record of my own life and to please the cache owners who read them.

 

Explain to me again why I'm pathetic? Maybe in the same post where I hear an answer explaining exactly why I need to check on my large cache full of toys with no reported maintenance problems.

Edited April 17, 2014 by The Leprechauns

[+Psychaesthetic]

Why do they use that green thing for the geocache icon? Is it a frog? A lizard? Hmm?

[+Ambrosia]

Why do they use that green thing for the geocache icon? Is it a frog? A lizard? Hmm?

Ammo can.

[+Psychaesthetic]

Why do they use that green thing for the geocache icon? Is it a frog? A lizard? Hmm?

Ammo can.

 

Nooo not the cache GPS icon, the little frog head or whatever it is

 

Two posts up te page Leprechauns profile pic .. That's what made me ask the question, coa I've seen that frog-thing a few times now

[+Ambrosia]

Why do they use that green thing for the geocache icon? Is it a frog? A lizard? Hmm?

Ammo can.

 

Nooo not the cache GPS icon, the little frog head or whatever it is

 

Two posts up te page Leprechauns profile pic .. That's what made me ask the question, coa I've seen that frog-thing a few times now

Oh! That's Signal the Frog, Groundspeak's mascot. He has his own internal gps, with an antennae that sticks out of his head.

[Pup Patrol]

Why do they use that green thing for the geocache icon? Is it a frog? A lizard? Hmm?

Ammo can.

 

Nooo not the cache GPS icon, the little frog head or whatever it is

 

Two posts up te page Leprechauns profile pic .. That's what made me ask the question, coa I've seen that frog-thing a few times now

 

Forum Guidelines

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6. Keep on topic: Responses to a particular thread should stay on-topic and pertain to the discussion. Users should use the New Topic button to start a new discussion which would otherwise be off-topic in the current thread. Threads that veer off topic may be redirected, closed or moderated by a moderator. Deliberate disruption or derailing of topics is not appropriate. However, our moderators allow for natural progressions of topics.

 

 

B.

[+Ambrosia]

Here's a page that has a lot of depictions of Signal geocaching around the world: Link

 

They used to give us new wallpaper every month, but have discontinued it. I guess they feel that their time is best spent elsewhere.

[+Psychaesthetic]

Here's a page that has a lot of depictions of Signal geocaching around the world: Link

 

They used to give us new wallpaper every month, but have discontinued it. I guess they feel that their time is best spent elsewhere.

 

Yeah he's the one. I assume he's a frog!