Favorite points / gold star?

[+RoadAndTheSky]

I'm wondering why we don't have a system where you can trade in ten or so favorite points for one gold star favorite point. I have around 105 favorite points, and occasionally will find a cache that is worth more than one point. It would be nice to say, hey your cache is GREAT with a gold star point.

[+Walts Hunting]

I don't think anyone has asked for it and given the long backlog of requests for some pretty major/important changes to the website I don't think it would get done.

[+Touchstone]

It would be great if they had a souvenir to reward the more creative cache owners like how you describe it may not get done quickly, but it sounds like a worthy idea.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I like this idea.

[4wheelin_fool]

There are plenty of people hoarding their fav points, so perhaps this might be a good idea. I have so few left that I've actually taken some back for redistribution.

[+NJSquirrel]

There are plenty of people hoarding their fav points, so perhaps this might be a good idea. I have so few left that I've actually taken some back for redistribution.

I never did understand the hoarding Favorites thing. I give out my Favorites liberally since I get them so easily. The idea behind Favorites is that everyone's top 20% will expose those exceptional caches by a lot of people giving them Favorites. But why hoard them? No will know where the good caches are.

[+niraD]

The idea of awarding multiple favorite points to extra special caches has been suggested before, although I think the "gold star favorite point" twist to the idea is new.

 

I think such an idea could have worked if it had been included in the favorite points system when it was first introduced, but at this point, it's a pretty big change to the meaning of favorite points.

 

And all things considered, I think I'd rather keep it as one favorite point per account per cache. The number of people awarding favorite points tells me more than the fact that some of them might award multiple favorite points. Consider a few hypothetical cases, for caches that have been found by 10 premium members each:

 

Cache A: 10 favorite points (awarded by 10 different premium members)

Cache B: 1 favorite point (awarded by one premium member)

Cache C: 10 favorite points (awarded by one premium member)

Cache D: 100 favorite points (awarded by 10 different premium members)

 

To me, the difference between Cache A and either Cache B or Cache C seems huge, but the difference between Cache B and Cache C seems negligible. Even the difference between Cache A and Cache D doesn't seem very significant.

 

What I think would really improve the system is the ability to correlate the preferences of different people, so I could search for caches enjoyed by people with preferences similar to my own. But a system like that would work just fine using the current system of awarding points, and allowing users to award multiple points per cache would probably just complicate such a system.

[+Walts Hunting]

Your hypotheticals are flawed. You can only give one favorite point to a cache so C and D cannot happen.

 

Maybe they aren't hoarding. People who do power trails collect a bunch and then maybe they don't find enough that merit them to give them away. I personally find that true. I bike power trails in the southwest during the winter and after coming home I can't find enough caches that merit them to give them all away.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Walts Hunting

[+niraD]

Your hypotheticals are flawed. You can only give one favorite point to a cache so C and D cannot happen.

I thought it would be clear that Cache C and Cache D assumed a system similar to the one proposed in this thread where finders could award multiple favorite points to a single cache, or where finders could award "gold star favorite points" that are worth 10 regular favorite points.

[+wimseyguy]

I'm not crazy about the OP's concept, but would like to see the current system improved upon.

Perhaps they could create a formula that uses Gold/Silver/Bronze ribbons instead of just blue depending on the percentage of PM finds who gave the cache a fave point.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Your hypotheticals are flawed. You can only give one favorite point to a cache so C and D cannot happen.

 

Maybe they aren't hoarding. People who do power trails collect a bunch and then maybe they don't find enough that merit them to give them away. I personally find that true. I bike power trails in the southwest during the winter and after coming home I can't find enough caches that merit them to give them all away.

 

True.....I have several hundred favorite points but don't hoard them. If the location, container, or hunt is special we award one.

[+tozainamboku]

Your hypotheticals are flawed. You can only give one favorite point to a cache so C and D cannot happen.

I thought it would be clear that Cache C and Cache D assumed a system similar to the one proposed in this thread where finders could award multiple favorite points to a single cache, or where finders could award "gold star favorite points" that are worth 10 regular favorite points.

I would thin with the OPs suggestion C and D would read something like 1 Gold Star, or 10 Gold Stars (or maybe 9 Gold Stars and 10 Favorite Points).

 

So you might still know how many people favorited the cache. I would prefer a cache with 55 favorites to one with 5 Gold Stars and 5 Faovorites, but someone who thinks that 1 in 10 caches doesn't have enough quality to award a favorite may want to give points to only one of 100 caches. So Gold Star would mean the cache is in the top 1% of the caches that person has found while a favorite points only says in it in the top 10%.

 

I like the system we have now because of its simplicity. I'm not sure I would gain anything knowing that a cache was in someone's top 1% unless I knew that person liked exactly the same caches I like.

[+Fugads]

Interesting idea, I wouldn't support it, but it does make you think. I may be reading between the lines, but something niraD mentioned rang most true.

What I think would really improve the system is the ability to correlate the preferences of different people, so I could search for caches enjoyed by people with preferences similar to my own.

Some people have loads of favorite points and dole them out all over. Others are very selective about the kinds of caches they find, and tend to give their favorite points out as soon as they get them, because they mostly find quality caches to begin with. Basically, the number of favorite points you give out, and have saved up is a function of how you cache. I suspect that those with tons of favorite points saved up have done some serious numbers-caching, and since the high quality caches they find are so few and far between, a way to heap a bigger reward might appeal to them. The caching I like best involves long hikes, and when I am getting out to do these kinds of hikes, I almost always have a FP deficit, I want to give them all FPs. Lately, I haven't been able to get out and do any long hikes, but have managed to do some mini-trails around the deserts here, and have built up a bunch of FPs. One cacher in my area exclusively does these long hikes, and while his number of finds might be considered low to some (~500 over 5 years), if I see a hike get a favorite point from him I know it is going to be awesome. One thing you can do is look at someone's public profile who you think has a similar style as you, and check out their favorites list. As for the proposed gold star, I see it mainly appealing to high-numbers-cachers, and being relatively meaningless to most others.

If you really want to have a means for some of your finds to stand out much more than others, you can do so in a personalized way. There is a cacher in the Albuquerque area who had his own rating system that looked like this:

 

** Wow Factor **

The difficulty and terrain ratings given for each cache are useful, but don't tell the whole story. I tend to enjoy caches that are not too difficult to find, with high terrain ratings. But some cache locations are so beautiful or so interesting that they stand out. The caches I like best are the ones where you can't help but say "Wow!".If a friend comes to town for a weekend and wants to go caching, where should I suggest they go? If their tastes are similar to mine, I can easily steer them toward my favorites, while telling them not to spend their limited time on others. That is my goal with the Wow Factor, to help cachers find the caches they will enjoy the most.Similar to difficulty and terrain ratings, I rate each cache on a scale from zero to five:

5 - World Class!!! Unique!!!

4.5 - Incredibly Awesome!!!

4 - Outstanding!! Awesome!!

3.5 - Very Cool!!

3 - Cool! Very Nice!

2.5 - Nice! Interesting!

2 - Pleasant. Nice.

1.5 - OK.

1 - Neutral. Nothing Special.

0 - Unpleasant. Unhealthy. Unsafe.

 

For his first 2000 finds*, he gave each one a Wow factor rating, and has bookmark lists for ratings of 3 and higher. Once I found that we had similar tastes, going to his bookmark list for 4, 4.5 and 5 rated caches was really helpful. Groundspeak doesn't need to implement some new feature for anyone to do this, in fact the OP could create a bookmark list called "Gold Star Caches" that would cover all the ones he wishes he could put tens of FPs on.

 

*After 2000 finds, he decided it wasn't worth his effort to continue this scale, and now simply uses the current favorite point system.

[+Isonzo Karst]

A downside of the Favorites point system is that most folks who used to maintain a Favorite finds bookmark lists no longer do it.

Those were great. I still use them when I find them. Of course, they're out of date now.

 

I never did understand the hoarding Favorites thing.

 

I don't know that there is hoarding of Favorites. I don't recall when it started, but I had hundreds of favorite points to assign. I did go back and assign to the caches on my own favorite bookmark list. Did some pawing though MyFinds query.

 

I still have way more points than caches to give them to. This isn't about "hoarding" though.

 

I'd say the number one reason I don;'t give a favorite is lack of maintenance of a poor quality container. Same cache with maintained or quality container would get a point.

[+Mudfrog]

There are plenty of people hoarding their fav points, so perhaps this might be a good idea. I have so few left that I've actually taken some back for redistribution.

I never did understand the hoarding Favorites thing. I give out my Favorites liberally since I get them so easily. The idea behind Favorites is that everyone's top 20% will expose those exceptional caches by a lot of people giving them Favorites. But why hoard them? No will know where the good caches are.

 

I'm not hoarding a bit. I love giving favorites out on good caches but that's where the problem comes in. Most caches i come across these days are the same ole same ole with not much to differentiate them from any other cache.

 

We have come across many, imo, exceptional caches in the past. I would definitely go back and replace my favorite point with a gold star if that was available. I do like this idea!

[+L0ne.R]

I'd say the number one reason I don;'t give a favorite is lack of maintenance of a poor quality container. Same cache with maintained or quality container would get a point.

 

Interesting. Same here. I'm not a hoarder of FPs either, but I currently have 20 to give away. Lately I'm having a hard time finding caches that include a quality well-maintained container.

[+Walts Hunting]

There are plenty of people hoarding their fav points, so perhaps this might be a good idea. I have so few left that I've actually taken some back for redistribution.

I never did understand the hoarding Favorites thing. I give out my Favorites liberally since I get them so easily. The idea behind Favorites is that everyone's top 20% will expose those exceptional caches by a lot of people giving them Favorites. But why hoard them? No will know where the good caches are.

 

I'm not hoarding a bit. I love giving favorites out on good caches but that's where the problem comes in. Most caches i come across these days are the same ole same ole with not much to differentiate them from any other cache.

 

We have come across many, imo, exceptional caches in the past. I would definitely go back and replace my favorite point with a gold star if that was available. I do like this idea!

 

That is exactly right. I rarely find one in ten caches that deserves a favorite.

[+J Grouchy]

I just never really think about handing out favorite points when I'm caching & logging.

[+CanadianRockies]

Basically, the number of favorite points you give out, and have saved up is a function of how you cache. I suspect that those with tons of favorite points saved up have done some serious numbers-caching, and since the high quality caches they find are so few and far between, a way to heap a bigger reward might appeal to them.

My own guess is that the chief factor that explains how many favorite points people award is their differing definitions of what constitutes a "favorite" cache.

 

I generally loosen up my standard about what a "favorite" cache is until I award points to about 10 percent of my finds. That means some of my favorite caches aren't very exceptional but rather just simply different than your typical micro in a spruce tree or Tupperware box under a pile of sticks.

 

Others I know are more demanding about which caches they will give favorite points to. They expect it to be somewhat memorable. Not just a nice cache but an excellent one. They might end up awarding points to only 5 percent of their finds.

[+CanadianRockies]

My main concern about Gold Star favorite points is that they might exaggerate an already existing problem with favorite points. Namely, I've noticed that some geocachers have a very strong tendency to give favorite points to friends' caches, regardless of the quality of those caches. Perhaps they feel this is an obligation of friendship. Fortunately, they usually have more points to award than close friends have caches, so their actions only slightly "distort" the favorites system. But if Gold Stars were available, then their view of friendship might cause them to give Gold Stars only to friends' caches, thus having a greater distortion on the system.

[+L0ne.R]

My main concern about Gold Star favorite points is that they might exaggerate an already existing problem with favorite points. Namely, I've noticed that some geocachers have a very strong tendency to give favorite points to friends' caches, regardless of the quality of those caches. Perhaps they feel this is an obligation of friendship. Fortunately, they usually have more points to award than close friends have caches, so their actions only slightly "distort" the favorites system. But if Gold Stars were available, then their view of friendship might cause them to give Gold Stars only to friends' caches, thus having a greater distortion on the system.

 

Yes, I've been noticing that too. People who are more social and attend events a lot tend to get more FP points. Addendum: not that their caches don't deserve FPs, but they tend to get more than the average.

Edited April 10, 2014 by L0ne.R

[+RoadAndTheSky]

A lot of good points have been bought up here. This is a tough one, people cache differently, some go for the hard ones, and some the easy ones H/T. How people would use a gold star system would be as different as the cachers themselves, but I think in the end it would be a fun way to go. The number of favorite points needed to cache in on a gold star would have a lot to do with how they are used. As for myself I don't think I would want to give up twenty (arbitrary number)favorite points just to give to a friend, or for some other reason other than a excellent cache, but like I said we all play differently.

I also seek out the hard caches as well as the clever ones.

Edited April 10, 2014 by RoadAndTheSky

[I!]

... Gold Star favorite points is that they might exaggerate an already existing problem with favorite points ... some geocachers have a very strong tendency to give favorite points to friends' caches, regardless of the quality of those caches

Yes. And when that happens, the effect is permanent: years later, the decaying cache still has its little collection of points/stars from the CO's friends. It would be nice if gc.com also indicated "what's hot" now, minus the distortion of historic favouritism.

Edited April 11, 2014 by I!

[+Don_J]

I'm wondering why we don't have a system where you can trade in ten or so favorite points for one gold star favorite point. I have around 105 favorite points, and occasionally will find a cache that is worth more than one point. It would be nice to say, hey your cache is GREAT with a gold star point.

 

Interesting idea. I have 246 points in reserve and that number seems to be growing. I have awarded almost 400 favorites, but quite a few are definitively worthy of a ten pointer.

[+Don_J]

The idea of awarding multiple favorite points to extra special caches has been suggested before, although I think the "gold star favorite point" twist to the idea is new.

 

I think such an idea could have worked if it had been included in the favorite points system when it was first introduced, but at this point, it's a pretty big change to the meaning of favorite points.

 

And all things considered, I think I'd rather keep it as one favorite point per account per cache. The number of people awarding favorite points tells me more than the fact that some of them might award multiple favorite points. Consider a few hypothetical cases, for caches that have been found by 10 premium members each:

 

Cache A: 10 favorite points (awarded by 10 different premium members)

Cache B: 1 favorite point (awarded by one premium member)

Cache C: 10 favorite points (awarded by one premium member)

Cache D: 100 favorite points (awarded by 10 different premium members)

 

To me, the difference between Cache A and either Cache B or Cache C seems huge, but the difference between Cache B and Cache C seems negligible. Even the difference between Cache A and Cache D doesn't seem very significant.

 

What I think would really improve the system is the ability to correlate the preferences of different people, so I could search for caches enjoyed by people with preferences similar to my own. But a system like that would work just fine using the current system of awarding points, and allowing users to award multiple points per cache would probably just complicate such a system.

 

I would like to see it displayed as:

 

Cache A: 10 favorite points.

Cache B: 1 favorite point.

Cache C: 1 Gold Star.

Cache D: 10 Gold Stars.

 

Cache E: 15 Favorites, 3 Gold Stars. - This would tell me 15 thought that it is above average and 3 thought it was way above average.

[+Don_J]

There are plenty of people hoarding their fav points, so perhaps this might be a good idea. I have so few left that I've actually taken some back for redistribution.

I never did understand the hoarding Favorites thing. I give out my Favorites liberally since I get them so easily. The idea behind Favorites is that everyone's top 20% will expose those exceptional caches by a lot of people giving them Favorites. But why hoard them? No will know where the good caches are.

 

I'm not hoarding a bit. I love giving favorites out on good caches but that's where the problem comes in. Most caches i come across these days are the same ole same ole with not much to differentiate them from any other cache.

 

We have come across many, imo, exceptional caches in the past. I would definitely go back and replace my favorite point with a gold star if that was available. I do like this idea!

 

I don't understand this hording thing. When the system was put in place, I suddenly had over 400 points in the bank. I went back through my finds and awarded about 150. I did it again and awarded another 25. Out of all of those, there were 20 or so that really stood out and would have got the Gold Star if that was part of the plan.

 

I do think that changing things up at this point is kind of like locking the barn door after all of the horses have escaped, but it is still an interesting idea.

[+Don_J]

My main concern about Gold Star favorite points is that they might exaggerate an already existing problem with favorite points. Namely, I've noticed that some geocachers have a very strong tendency to give favorite points to friends' caches, regardless of the quality of those caches. Perhaps they feel this is an obligation of friendship. Fortunately, they usually have more points to award than close friends have caches, so their actions only slightly "distort" the favorites system. But if Gold Stars were available, then their view of friendship might cause them to give Gold Stars only to friends' caches, thus having a greater distortion on the system.

 

Yes, I've been noticing that too. People who are more social and attend events a lot tend to get more FP points. Addendum: not that their caches don't deserve FPs, but they tend to get more than the average.

 

Fortunately, this just doesn't seem to happen around here.

[+Chief301]

I think the system as it is works fine. I believe the 1:10 ratio of Fave points earned is just about right....it seems to me that only about 1 in 10 caches are truly noteworthy and deserving of a Fave vote. Of course, that's based on my own subjective opinion of what makes a great cache, others' opinions may differ. I don't tend to hoard my Fave votes....I usually have no more than 4 or 5 in the bank.

 

Nowadays, I find myself giving a Fave point just for not being a boring micro in a bush 😜. You take a little time and effort designing a decent hide, in a Small or Regular sized container, and place it in a decent spot and not in the back corner of a drug store parking lot, you're likely to get a Fave vote from me.

 

I also find myself more likely to issue a Fave point to caches that already have several Fave points....like I go in expecting it to be a great cache, so in my mind when I find it it's already a great cache. A little subconscious spin going on there, psychologically speaking. 😊

 

I suppose over the course of my (admittedly limited) caching career, maybe a handful, like 5 or 6 caches would have qualified as a Gold Star cache. But if it would have cost me 10 of my regular Fave votes to give it, there would have been that many less deserving caches that I could have given a well-earned Fave point.

 

Having said all that, I did receive this log on one of my most recent caches, GC4TWYG, "Apocalypso!".....I guess that could have been a Gold Star 😉

 

Chief, I would give you five points if I could. Heck, maybe ten. I loved the container, the hide, the final location, the sense of worry I felt though it was still day light. Thanks also giving us another multi to get us out of the tradition rut. This is what caching is all about. A second to find never felt so good. Awesome!

[+Overurhead360]

I agree with this last post, the system currently does work fine, but i read some one on here posted something about getting souviniers about favorites on owned caches, thats a good motivation! i mean to the OP i sometimes would love to give a cache 10 favorite points, but i do agree that the scale would drmaticlly flaw in both ways. keeping it one star is best.

[+coachstahly]

I have over 300 FPs to award, but I can't seem to find many caches worthy of rewarding the points to. I've given out a few more than usual recently (hope that's a sign of things becoming more high quality), but I do find that FPs aren't necessarily an indication of a truly memorable cache (for whatever reason - age, location, container, hide, etc...). There's one cache in my state's top ten by FPs that I wouldn't award a favorite to because to me, it's not really worthy of a FP. It's cute, but that's about it. If I feel it's worthy of a point, I make sure to note that in my field notes so I won't forget, but I usually don't forget because the experience was so fun/neat/exciting/enjoyable.

[+DanOCan]

I don't think anyone has asked for it and given the long backlog of requests for some pretty major/important changes to the website I don't think it would get done.

Yes, things like Giga events.

 

To the OP: It's an interesting idea but I think the current system works fine.

[JASTA 11]

The idea behind Favorites is that everyone's top 20% will expose those exceptional caches by a lot of people giving them Favorites. But why hoard them? No will know where the good caches are.

 

That may be your idea behind favorite points, but not everyone's.

(btw, it would be 10%)

 

I rarely find one in ten caches that deserves a favorite.

 

Same with us.

 

We don't subscribe to the 'earn one - burn one' philosophy.

 

We award points to our favorites, not to our favorite out of the last ten.

 

If we ended up doing ten, average, ho-hum caches why give a favorite point to one of them? That's not letting anyone know where a 'good' cache is.

 

There are times we wish we could give extra favorite points to a worthy cache, so the OP's idea is interesting.

 

But we're also happy with the way it works now. I don't expect we'll ever award all of our favorite points.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I think the system works well as it is. I have 490 favorite points, and have awarded 360 of them. (And yes, many have gone to archived caches. I loved them and they deserved the favorite point.) Would I want to award more than one to a cache? Naw. My favorite point tells the CO that I enjoyed the cache tremendously. Nice cache and nice location! That says it all.

[+K13]

It would be a nice addition to be notified when a Favorite has been awarded to your cache (and if one is removed as well). The system is good as it is.