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Southwestern New Mexico cachers beware


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Interesting read. Good writer. I hope geocachers don't blast him on his blog - that certainly won't help change his mind. And I also don't think it'll be particularly helpful to tell him that by taking the cache he's only ensuring that GZ will get ripped to shreds by searchers - that portrays us in a bad light, even if it's true.

 

The guy who built the cairns was definitely not practicing "leave no trace," although I'm sure he thought he was being helpful and didn't see cairns as something bad. Frankly, I wouldn't have thought of a cairn as something bad prior to reading this article, but I do see his point of view. He's convinced me to do a better job of leaving no trace myself.

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Ben Lilly -Cherry Creek?

 

Interesting indeed. The reference to Monkey Wrench Gang was appropriate since there was something Edward Abbey-esque to the article - I trust that Mr. Fayhee does not throw beer cans out the window but it would be fun to sit down with him over one. Much more entertaining than some of the avenger-type folks.

 

I find myself in New Mexico on occasion and have thought about visiting that area to see the cliff dwellings. It appears there are other places to explore.

Edited by geodarts
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I don't understand. Why is aimless wandering considered pure and noble but do it with a GPS in your hand and you're just a pretend nature lover? No argument that someone building cairns is a pretty dumb thing to do. But placing yourself on some imaginary pedestal because you think you're the only person who cares about nature isn't an admirable quality to possess. If he's so happy just being out walking around, then be happy. No need to run down someone elses hobbies.

 

Besides, unless he lives in a cave, how much wild, undisturbed land had to be plowed under to build his house? Kind of hypocritical, isn't it?

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I was reading the blog of a writer I enjoy, M. John Fayee, formerly of Mountain Gazette, when I ran across this rant about geocachers. He lives in or near Silver City, New Mexico, so I suspect that he is talking about the Gila River country.

 

It sounds like he is declaring war on backcountry cachers, so if you fit that category and yours go missing, this might explain it.

 

And all this time, I've declared war on parking lot cachers. :o

 

Interesting read. Good writer. I hope geocachers don't blast him on his blog - that certainly won't help change his mind. And I also don't think it'll be particularly helpful to tell him that by taking the cache he's only ensuring that GZ will get ripped to shreds by searchers - that portrays us in a bad light, even if it's true.

 

I looked at the blog post before even reading the replies here, and that's the first thing that popped into my head too, that I hope dozens of Geocacher's don't fly off the handle and comment. However, I'm thinking you need a Wordpress account to comment, which almost no one reading this thread is going to have. The OP appears to be the first commenter, maybe he can comment on that. :)

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It sounds like he didn't start out as being against geocaching per se, but was chiding people for breaking from the "leave no trace" (aside from a geocache) aspect that is supposed to be part of what we're doing out there. But then apparently changed his mind and decided he might go crusading.

 

Either way, sounds like this cache might be missing now:

 

From the article:

 

On the geocaching.com website, I learned that the bright-blue plastic Rubbermaid one-gallon water cooler was placed in 2001 by two fellow Silver City residents I do not know (or at least I do not think I do), who I’m sure are very nice, sincere, well-meaning people. The geocache even had a proper name, which for obvious reasons I will not herein share. The website contained a fairly detailed set of directions, along with some GPS coordinates, along with what looked to be a code cipher of a species usually associated with a Cold War passing of national secrets. Here is an example: ybbx sbe n pnvea bs ebpx ba gur yrsg naq tb gb nabgure pnvea bs ebpx ng.

 

Ben Lilly Cherry Creek was hidden by Dean & Ginger in 2001, and part of the hint reads:

 

ybbx sbe n pnvea bs ebpx ba gur yrsg naq tb gb nabgure pnvea bs ebpx ng

 

Again from the article:

 

That bright-blue Rubbermaid one-gallon water cooler now sits upon my desk, scant inches from where these words are being penned. It will soon be placed into the recycling bin, from where I hope it is resurrected into something useful, or at least benign. Its contents will be placed in my trashcan. And I will soon start eyeballing the appropriate geocaching websites with the idea of expanding my public-service horizons to include as many geocaches as I can locate and remove.

 

So this cache is now on his desk, and apparently others will follow.

 

Perhaps someone from Groundspeak should contact Mr. Fayhee before he makes good on his word.

 

Meanwhile, perhaps other geocachers should take this as a warning and start adhering to the geocacher's creed.

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I woke up this morning thinking I should leave a note on the cache page but hzoi had already done it. Good job.

 

This article was interesting in part because Mr. Fayhee found the container away from its intended location and had to wrestle with whether he wanted to enable the game by returning it to where it was originally left. Finding a Rubbermaid container in a tree branch a half mile away is different than going on a crusade to remove containers. I hope that he decides not to do that.

 

In any event, the article mentions a complaint that was filed against unknown people who removed a series of caches placed on national forest land in New Mexico. The complaint seeks to "be compensated for the value of the geocaches and for the time spent placing those caches." That raised my eyebrows. Does anyone have further information about that?

Edited by geodarts
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Perhaps someone from Groundspeak should contact Mr. Fayhee before he makes good on his word.

 

Groundspeak will do nothing. It is the CO's responsibility to get permission to place the cache. If permission was granted, then the land owner should provide the CO with a letter and it should be attached to the cache page. Then, the CO will have a leg to stand on if things continue to escalate. Otherwise, Mr. Fayhee and others will continue to remove trash from parks (i.e. destroy caches).

 

Unfortunately, one man's treasure is another man's trash!

 

We have a similar situation here in NJ, but at least it seems a bit more isolated (small land area). Not much can be done about it without explicit permission.

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The cache owner could file a report with local law enforcement if he believes that a theft has occurred.

 

Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use. The cache owner can contact Groundspeak if a ToU violation has occurred -- for example, harrassment of the CO via the Geocaching.com email tool.

 

Groundspeak employees and volunteers cannot provide security services for a cache owner's personal property.

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Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use.

It's been many, many moons since I've perused the ToU.

Would stealing caches qualify as a violation?

 

Seems like it would only apply to anyone who became a member and therefore agreed to the Terms of Use, no?

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The cache owner could file a report with local law enforcement if he believes that a theft has occurred.

 

Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use. The cache owner can contact Groundspeak if a ToU violation has occurred -- for example, harrassment of the CO via the Geocaching.com email tool.

 

Groundspeak employees and volunteers cannot provide security services for a cache owner's personal property.

So you are saying that if someone is stealing your caches and you know who its and GS wont ban/lock that person account?

 

However, GS does provide security services to the puzzle owners against puzzle spoilers. Or they used to.

Edited by SwineFlew
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BTW: geocache containers usually (!) don't qualify as trash (check your local laws). They belong to the owner, who doesn't want them to be threwn away => no trash. Even if it's placed non-legally.

 

Over here someone was forced to reimburse the material & effort a cache owner has spent in creating the cache. He was accused of non-declaring a lost&found thing of certain value. The "finder" even was somewhat official for this area (IIRC it was the local licensed hunter). He carried it from the original location to the side of a forest street, where it later was stolen by someone else. The judge found him guilty, as he had to be aware of interesting things getting stolen when clearly visible beside a road.

 

Value of the cache was set to cost of material plus several EUR/hour making it. Summed up to around 1000 EUR as far as I recall (plus court and lawyer fees...). It was some handcraft and some electronics involved.

 

The "finder" wasn't prosecuted for stealing, since he technically didn't intend to aquire it (or said so). So he had luck to get away with just the costs of the cache. Note: he was an authorised body for this wood and the cache was placed without permission...

 

The author adressed a similar case. But as I read the article, I just can think of him as a self-rightous, extremistic and intolerant person. "I don't understand it so I am against it" is the root of all evil in our world.

Edited by Ben0w
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Its rather strange that someone would get upset over a series of rock cairns. Hacking down trees, nails, or painting rocks is what usually would set someone off. The logs have mentioned the cairns since 2002 and many park rangers create cairns for trail guidance. It sounds like someone who may have other problems but decided to focus on this instead.

 

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Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use.

It's been many, many moons since I've perused the ToU.

Would stealing caches qualify as a violation?

 

Seems like it would only apply to anyone who became a member and therefore agreed to the Terms of Use, no?

In this case, since the person in question is reading cache pages, perhaps they are a member, no?

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Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use.

It's been many, many moons since I've perused the ToU.

Would stealing caches qualify as a violation?

 

Seems like it would only apply to anyone who became a member and therefore agreed to the Terms of Use, no?

In this case, since the person in question is reading cache pages, perhaps they are a member, no?

If you sign up on GC.com, you agree with the TOU even you arent going to play geocaching.

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Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use.

It's been many, many moons since I've perused the ToU.

Would stealing caches qualify as a violation?

 

Seems like it would only apply to anyone who became a member and therefore agreed to the Terms of Use, no?

In this case, since the person in question is reading cache pages, perhaps they are a member, no?

If you sign up on GC.com, you agree with the TOU even you arent going to play geocaching.

 

So Groundpeak would enforce it's TOU by banning the account. Is there some other expected scenario that I'm missing here? We know who it is, and if it becomes more well known by multiple geocachers on blogs and facebook accounts, he would likely experience a backlash.

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We know who it is, and if it becomes more well known by multiple geocachers on blogs and facebook accounts, he would likely experience a backlash.

 

At this point, the only thing we know is that he decided not to replace a container that he found a half mile away from its intended location. And that he is considering doing more. The most appropriate backlash at the moment would be to sit down with him over a beer and hash it out.

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Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use.

It's been many, many moons since I've perused the ToU.

Would stealing caches qualify as a violation?

 

Seems like it would only apply to anyone who became a member and therefore agreed to the Terms of Use, no?

In this case, since the person in question is reading cache pages, perhaps they are a member, no?

 

As far as I know, you don't have to be a member to read the non-premium cache pages. The cache linked to above is not a PMO, so anyone can see it.

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Groundspeak's responsibility is to enforce its terms of use.

It's been many, many moons since I've perused the ToU.

Would stealing caches qualify as a violation?

 

Seems like it would only apply to anyone who became a member and therefore agreed to the Terms of Use, no?

In this case, since the person in question is reading cache pages, perhaps they are a member, no?

 

As far as I know, you don't have to be a member to read the non-premium cache pages. The cache linked to above is not a PMO, so anyone can see it.

 

You can read cache descriptions, but not see the coordinates. Without signing up for even a basic membership, you wouldn't be able to see where it SHOULD have been.

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We know who it is, and if it becomes more well known by multiple geocachers on blogs and facebook accounts, he would likely experience a backlash.

 

At this point, the only thing we know is that he decided not to replace a container that he found a half mile away from its intended location. And that he is considering doing more. The most appropriate backlash at the moment would be to sit down with him over a beer and hash it out.

 

Agreed. He is a very good writer, but his own acts of theft would not be as bad as the ones he could inspire. By saying he found it in another location, he could be implying that all caches are potential garbage, or just trying to avoid liability for removing it. He knows how to contact the owner, so at this point it is theft, but I don't think any type of prosecution would be a good idea, as the National Forest may just side with him. Rock cairns are pretty benign, so I don't know how this is really a problem.

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Agreed. He is a very good writer, but his own acts of theft would not be as bad as the ones he could inspire. By saying he found it in another location, he could be implying that all caches are potential garbage, or just trying to avoid liability for removing it. He knows how to contact the owner, so at this point it is theft, but I don't think any type of prosecution would be a good idea, as the National Forest may just side with him. Rock cairns are pretty benign, so I don't know how this is really a problem.

 

I probably would not use the word "theft," but he seems more than willing to adopt an outlaw kind of persona in an Edward Abbey type of way. The more I read his work, the more his decision not to rehide the cache seems consistent. In Flagging he describes removing surveyor flags along a potential trail as being in keeping with his hatred of litter and mountain bikes. I suppose that a mountain biking cacher who surveys would not be high on his list. It can be entertaining as long nobody (including himself) takes it too seriously.

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Well shucks, look what's happening in my neck of the desert. Thanks for posting this, I've never heard of this dude before. And his writing is pretty amusing. I sincerely doubt he will become a geocache vigilante though. It seems like he is more interested in writing a somewhat provocative (to geocachers) article. The cache in question is not nearly as remote as he make sit out to be, there are some way more remote ones out in the Gila. And any cache owner who places caches out here should expect to have to deal with missing caches at some point, there have been lots of recent forest fires and flooding aside from the occasional muggle. I'm not worried by this guy (and I do own a cache out his way). And I wouldn't mind sitting down with him and chatting over a beer. We've been over lots of the same ground.

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Its rather strange that someone would get upset over a series of rock cairns. Hacking down trees, nails, or painting rocks is what usually would set someone off. The logs have mentioned the cairns since 2002 and many park rangers create cairns for trail guidance. It sounds like someone who may have other problems but decided to focus on this instead.

Actually, of all his complaints I have the most sympathy with the rock cairn issue.

 

The whole idea of geocaching is to find your way to ground zero using GPS and then look for cache. It baffles me that some geocachers decide they need to mark trail for others to follow and then move the cache to what the think is the more obvious location. If this guy thinks geocachers are idiots, I don't blame him.

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Its rather strange that someone would get upset over a series of rock cairns. Hacking down trees, nails, or painting rocks is what usually would set someone off. The logs have mentioned the cairns since 2002 and many park rangers create cairns for trail guidance. It sounds like someone who may have other problems but decided to focus on this instead.

Actually, of all his complaints I have the most sympathy with the rock cairn issue.

 

The whole idea of geocaching is to find your way to ground zero using GPS and then look for cache. It baffles me that some geocachers decide they need to mark trail for others to follow and then move the cache to what the think is the more obvious location. If this guy thinks geocachers are idiots, I don't blame him.

 

Yes, someone added the cairns in 2001 with the cache owner adding the waypoints to the page.

 

Thanks to all the visitors who have added some rock cairns and improved the ancient horse trails.

 

Marking the trails was popular back then, but I haven't seen anyone do much of it in over ten years. So, this is about a few rocks that were moved into an unnatural position by an inexperienced geocacher some 13 years ago? Perhaps it was by others visiting the ancient shelters. I know some people like to imagine that they are visiting a place that nobody has ever been to, but getting annoyed at a stack of a few rocks is silly. This is about someone who was roused from a fantasy world of pristine exploration, who then found a few rock cairns and used a 13 year old geocache as a scapegoat. I don't blame him either for thinking geocachers are idiots, but I also wouldn't blame geocachers for thinking the same thing about him.

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Its rather strange that someone would get upset over a series of rock cairns. Hacking down trees, nails, or painting rocks is what usually would set someone off. The logs have mentioned the cairns since 2002 and many park rangers create cairns for trail guidance. It sounds like someone who may have other problems but decided to focus on this instead.

Actually, of all his complaints I have the most sympathy with the rock cairn issue.

 

The whole idea of geocaching is to find your way to ground zero using GPS and then look for cache. It baffles me that some geocachers decide they need to mark trail for others to follow and then move the cache to what the think is the more obvious location. If this guy thinks geocachers are idiots, I don't blame him.

 

I didn't read the entire article but I didn't see any evidence that the cairns were created by geocachers.

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I...may have left a longish comment. I didn't say this there, but I feel like he doesn't want to share what he feels are "his" places. I wish I'd thought to add that people (usually? Sometimes? At least are supposed to) get permission to place a hide.

 

And seriously...orienteering is "out?" Someone needs to tell the Boy Scouts.

 

I didn't know highpointing was out either. I hope to visit 2 State highpoints while on vacation in the next week and a half.

 

Well shucks, look what's happening in my neck of the desert. Thanks for posting this, I've never heard of this dude before. And his writing is pretty amusing. I sincerely doubt he will become a geocache vigilante though. It seems like he is more interested in writing a somewhat provocative (to geocachers) article. The cache in question is not nearly as remote as he make sit out to be, there are some way more remote ones out in the Gila. And any cache owner who places caches out here should expect to have to deal with missing caches at some point, there have been lots of recent forest fires and flooding aside from the occasional muggle. I'm not worried by this guy (and I do own a cache out his way). And I wouldn't mind sitting down with him and chatting over a beer. We've been over lots of the same ground.

 

Good thing there aren't really "over 6 million Geocachers". But if there were, this guy seems more than willing to write a "provactive article" thumbing his nose at all 6 million of them. :blink:

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I...may have left a longish comment. I didn't say this there, but I feel like he doesn't want to share what he feels are "his" places. I wish I'd thought to add that people (usually? Sometimes? At least are supposed to) get permission to place a hide.

 

And seriously...orienteering is "out?" Someone needs to tell the Boy Scouts.

Come on now guys... read what is there (with description to boot). Orienteering is a map and compass 'competition' that uses good map and compass navigation and logic. ORIENTING is more of a challenge activity.

I've done that as an exercise in problem solving and general field skills and is about achieving a straight line course, despite what nature throws in your way. I would agree that it could be destructive if the course is not chosen well. But a course should be selected to test skills, and be kept away from sensitive areas. Some places would accept that type of event better than others for sure. In fact it is much like bushwhacking... you could follow the trail, or you can strike out overland following a bearing. Difference is that with bushwhacking you can chose to go where you wish to avoid obstacles/ hazards. Again it's not always a good eco friendly choice of activity.

 

Doug 7rxc

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I didn't read the entire article but I didn't see any evidence that the cairns were created by geocachers.

Yeah, that struck me, too. It's as if he's blaming geocaching for any intrustion, and that takes me back to the other point someone made, that this position is basically that no one else should be using his spot. Which is particularly amusing since, from what people are saying is in the logs, the cairns were built 13 years ago, and he's only just now noticed them. To me, that unscores what an absolute non-issue the cairns are.

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I didn't read the entire article but I didn't see any evidence that the cairns were created by geocachers.

Yeah, that struck me, too. It's as if he's blaming geocaching for any intrustion, and that takes me back to the other point someone made, that this position is basically that no one else should be using his spot. Which is particularly amusing since, from what people are saying is in the logs, the cairns were built 13 years ago, and he's only just now noticed them. To me, that unscores what an absolute non-issue the cairns are.

 

After reading the paper logbook, here is what he says about the cairns and geocaching:

 

Numerous of the entries had lamented the lack of a trail to the geocache that had originally been placed under that overhang. One of the entrants wrote that he had started clearing a trail. And another wrote that he had started … placing a series of cairns to help people more comfortably access the geocache. Yes, the very system of cairns I had spent so much time returning to their natural state was birthed as a result of this geocache

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...o, this is about a few rocks that were moved into an unnatural position by an inexperienced geocacher some 13 years ago? ...

 

so if i am a geocacher in the middle of the desert with only the creosote around and i want to place a cache, i am to look for a hole that i can fit a cache in that is hidden from sight and not move any rocks to obscure the hole? hoping i am not blocking a tortoise burrow or snake hole.

 

or if i am in a local woodland, dead log laying there amongst a bunch of other dead logs, i can't block the entrance to the hole in the log to obscure the fact that a cache is in there? no dead grass moved? no sticks and stones?

 

these are example of caches i have found. hiding a cache by adding rocks to its hiding place must have been done by an inexperienced cacher?

 

are you serious? where do you hide your caches? or do you leave them sitting out in the open. for those of us that do not live where there are naturally occurring holes and bushes in which to hide caches, moving a few rocks around is the only option.

 

i am more concerned with the CO that pounded sections of pvc pipe into the ground and dropped little tubes with lids in them and called them caches.

 

if you want to be picky, the whole premise of geocaching is harmful to the environment.

Edited by RedShoesGirl
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...o, this is about a few rocks that were moved into an unnatural position by an inexperienced geocacher some 13 years ago? ...

 

so if i am a geocacher in the middle of the desert with only the creosote around and i want to place a cache, i am to look for a hole that i can fit a cache in that is hidden from sight and not move any rocks to obscure the hole? hoping i am not blocking a tortoise burrow or snake hole.

I don't believe he would have been concerned about a few rocks used to hide a cache. What got his attention was someone had marked a trail that apparently led nowhere. Eventually he was able to associate it with the cache.

 

Geocachers shouldn't be contstructing new trails for the purpose of hiding geocaches. If you hide a cache off trail, ideally you want it to be somewhere where the traffic to the cache isn't going to result in a new social trails being formed. We all joke about the geotrails that lead to many cache. Perhaps some of this is unavoidable. But certainly we as geocachers can be doing our best to not create new trails. We don't have to mark the way to the cache with cairns.

 

When he started comparing geocachers to some mountain bikers, I understood just what his concerns are. There are many places where you can see the new trails and paths created by mountain bikers who don't stick to established trails. For the most part, a geocacher on foot and treading lightly can avoid creating a trail.

 

if you want to be picky, the whole premise of geocaching is harmful to the environment.

On the contrary, he seems to admit that geocaching has very little impact compared to other activities. And if geocachers followed LNT principles it would have even less.

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...o, this is about a few rocks that were moved into an unnatural position by an inexperienced geocacher some 13 years ago? ...

 

hiding a cache by adding rocks to its hiding place must have been done by an inexperienced cacher?

are you serious? where do you hide your caches? or do you leave them sitting out in the open.

 

He was inexperienced due to it being 2001, and having a few finds, not because he moved anything around. Personally, I don't find anything wrong with moving rocks around, but thanks for taking my post out of context. However I just may start leaving my caches out in the open anyhow since that's where the app users end up leaving them. I can probably take a picture of the background and use a 3D imaging system to create some camo to make them match the background perfectly. Or I can cover them with some pixie dust that I bought in the parking lot of a Dead concert in '89, and make them completely invisible. That way if they go missing, I won't have to replace them.

 

I have no idea how the writer was able to return the rocks to their natural state, as he has no idea where they were originally. So they are still not in their original form, but just not noticeable to anyone.

 

 

geocaching is harmful.

 

Are you serious? The only impact are geotrails, which disappear after the cache is gone, and only a little bit worse than animal trails. Remember, you should never ingest or smoke any geocache.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I...may have left a longish comment. I didn't say this there, but I feel like he doesn't want to share what he feels are "his" places. I wish I'd thought to add that people (usually? Sometimes? At least are supposed to) get permission to place a hide.

 

And seriously...orienteering is "out?" Someone needs to tell the Boy Scouts.

Come on now guys... read what is there (with description to boot). Orienteering is a map and compass 'competition' that uses good map and compass navigation and logic. ORIENTING is more of a challenge activity.

I've done that as an exercise in problem solving and general field skills and is about achieving a straight line course, despite what nature throws in your way. I would agree that it could be destructive if the course is not chosen well. But a course should be selected to test skills, and be kept away from sensitive areas. Some places would accept that type of event better than others for sure. In fact it is much like bushwhacking... you could follow the trail, or you can strike out overland following a bearing. Difference is that with bushwhacking you can chose to go where you wish to avoid obstacles/ hazards. Again it's not always a good eco friendly choice of activity.

 

Doug 7rxc

 

Huh. Orienting. Who knew?

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...However I just may start leaving my caches out in the open anyhow since that's where the app users end up leaving them. I can probably take a picture of the background and use a 3D imaging system to create some camo to make them match the background perfectly. Or I can cover them with some pixie dust that I bought in the parking lot of a Dead concert in '89, and make them completely invisible. That way if they go missing, I won't have to replace them.

...

 

now you're talkin!

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I...may have left a longish comment. I didn't say this there, but I feel like he doesn't want to share what he feels are "his" places. I wish I'd thought to add that people (usually? Sometimes? At least are supposed to) get permission to place a hide.

 

And seriously...orienteering is "out?" Someone needs to tell the Boy Scouts.

Come on now guys... read what is there (with description to boot). Orienteering is a map and compass 'competition' that uses good map and compass navigation and logic. ORIENTING is more of a challenge activity.

I've done that as an exercise in problem solving and general field skills and is about achieving a straight line course, despite what nature throws in your way. I would agree that it could be destructive if the course is not chosen well. But a course should be selected to test skills, and be kept away from sensitive areas. Some places would accept that type of event better than others for sure. In fact it is much like bushwhacking... you could follow the trail, or you can strike out overland following a bearing. Difference is that with bushwhacking you can chose to go where you wish to avoid obstacles/ hazards. Again it's not always a good eco friendly choice of activity.

 

Doug 7rxc

 

I don't profess to be an Orienteering expert, vs. an Orienting expert, not that I ever knew or heard there was a difference, let alone heard of Orienting. But if you're using a compass to navigate along an aziumuth, you're going in a straight line. With the whole thing about taking 3 steps to the left to miss the big tree, and three steps to the right after you pass it. Personal experience with Army Land Nav, pre GPS. :lol: All that being said, I can someone like this guy not liking straight line compass navigation in the wilderness.

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I don't profess to be an Orienteering expert, vs. an Orienting expert, not that I ever knew or heard there was a difference, let alone heard of Orienting. But if you're using a compass to navigate along an aziumuth, you're going in a straight line. With the whole thing about taking 3 steps to the left to miss the big tree, and three steps to the right after you pass it. Personal experience with Army Land Nav, pre GPS. :lol: All that being said, I can someone like this guy not liking straight line compass navigation in the wilderness.

Army style navigation here too, also some SAR pattern searches. I don't think that your tree would count as a challenge though... a cliff, river etc. would be more apt... come to a cliff rappell down or climb up, cross the river, not look for a bridge and so forth. The big thing was going straight, the compass was only the means.

 

Anyhow, I was just defending the 'author' from being misquoted as to the material... and the Boy Scouts (and any orienteers around). As for how the 'author' takes exception to many activities like cairn and trail building, I had a weird image of what he would say about those long gone Native Americans who built all those stone dwellings in the cliff area... dang vandals! :blink: Wonder if he wants to remove all of those as well.

 

Doug 7rxc

Edited by 7rxc
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As for how the 'author' takes exception to many activities like cairn and trail building, I had a weird image of what he would say about those long gone Native Americans who built all those stone dwellings in the cliff area... dang vandals! :blink: Wonder if he wants to remove all of those as well.

Nope, they've been grandfathered in. :D

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