Puzzle Caches...good GRIEF

[Spearehead]

Hello!

 

So, I'm still relatively new to geocaching, but am very enthusiastic about the hobby. I've hidden a few myself and try to geocache every time we go on a trip (which isn't that often, but still.) I've logged close to 60 caches (like I said, just starting) but one of the kinds of caches I have never been able to tackle are most "Puzzle Caches."

 

I've grabbed most of the caches in my area, save for the remaining Puzzle Caches which just outright baffle me.

 

For instance,this cache is very near my house and is the first in a series I'd love to complete, but ... I admit, I have absolutely no clue what to do. I feel like A) my lack of exposure to complex mathematics in my life (arts major here) has me woefully under-qualified to undertake this type of cache, or it is a simpler process than it seems and I'm just new and truly don't know where to begin.

 

So, gaging from the cache listed above, is this a typical "puzzle cache" and I'm just in over my head, or does this one look particularly tricky? Honesty, I don't even know where to start beyond looking up the publication dates on the quotes.

 

I've gathered clues and computed final coords for a new waypoint before on some multi stages and letterboxes, but caches like this?

 

Wow.

 

I love geocaching, and find myself ignoring any cache listing with a "?" as its icon. I'd love any tips on how to read or practice or decipher puzzle caches so I don't keep skipping this unique kind of geocaching experience.

 

Thanks for the tips!

[I!]

So, gaging from the cache listed above, is this a typical "puzzle cache" and I'm just in over my head, or does this one look particularly tricky?

The latter. Here's hoping the other puzzle caches near you are easier!

[+kunarion]

I love geocaching, and find myself ignoring any cache listing with a "?" as its icon. I'd love any tips on how to read or practice or decipher puzzle caches so I don't keep skipping this unique kind of geocaching experience.

Look at them all, and select the ones that you enjoy working. Some people prefer a straight-forward puzzle (crossword puzzle, Sudoku, etc.) which has a familiar format, others prefer a complete mystery they've never seen before.

 

I don't ignore any of them, but if I can't figure out what the puzzle is and if the cache description seems poorly constructed, it goes to the bottom of the pile. There's no cache shortage.

 

"And the system of equations" [Aack! Um, yeah. Wow. Well, I hope you enjoy that one!]

Edited March 30, 2014 by kunarion

[+Ma & Pa]

Puzzles come in many types, some will be easy for everyone, some will be easy depending on your background, and some will require a bit of work. I have a series of Micro Logic puzzles that some enjoy solving manually, some use programs such as Perl, some manage to use excel, some go out with a bunch of friends who have solved them, and I have a friend who waits for the caches to be in trouble and then volunteers to do maintenance on them in order to claim them.

 

We been caching for 10 years and have solved and found many puzzles and have created 200 of our own.

 

However I have no idea on how to solve the one that you mention. Maybe I should show it to MA.

 

PAul

[+TriciaG]

Ooo, that looks like fun! Too bad I don't live in Illinois.

 

It's definitely one for a math-oriented person. Know any math whizzes? Invite them over for coffee and a math problem.

[+tozainamboku]

So, gaging from the cache listed above, is this a typical "puzzle cache" and I'm just in over my head, or does this one look particularly tricky?

The latter. Here's hoping the other puzzle caches near you are easier!

I think this seems a particularly easy puzzle with the CO giving instructions on how to solve.

 

The math part is a bit harder but the CO states the system of equations is solvable without matrices or Wolfram Alpha (a website that might be useful for solving some more difficult puzzles). Remembering that the letters A through P are single digit integers, you can use logic to determine which digits will work for all the equations.

 

Most puzzles are trickier because you're not told how to solve them. You need to figure that out.

[+K13]

You can always ask for assistance from the cache owner. In fact, he tells you that on the description

Good luck. If you have any questions or feel that there are ambiguities or errors, message me and I will get back to you as soon as possible. Please note that you will not have to step onto private property to find this cache; it is in the parkway.

(emphasis added)

[Spearehead]

Thanks for all the really quick replies!

 

Although this reply:

 

I think this seems a particularly easy puzzle with the CO giving instructions on how to solve.

 

The math part is a bit harder but the CO states the system of equations is solvable without matrices or Wolfram Alpha (a website that might be useful for solving some more difficult puzzles). Remembering that the letters A through P are single digit integers, you can use logic to determine which digits will work for all the equations.

 

... reinforces my fear that I'm just in over my head with caches like this. No clue what either of you are on about.

 

(Hooray for two degrees in the arts!)

 

[+Ev1l 81tch]

There is usually some hint on how to solve it, and your search engine is always a good place to start. there are lots of different types of puzzles, many puzzle caches I have worked on have used ciphers and I use a frequency analysis tool I found online. but dont be afraid to ask the CO for help they may just give you an extra hint! I have a few puzzle caches myself and Im always happy to help cos it means someone is going to find my cache! thats why I placed it! keep at it! sometimes you can look at a puzzle for ages then one day something clicks and it all falls into place!

[+TheHarleyRebel]

I use to hate them, but I asked people at meets for hints and....bingo! Don't give up just yet.

[+Beach_hut]

I'm a hardcore puzzle setter and solver and even I wouldn't put out a cache with maths like that. Without looking to see what other local puzzles are like I think you may have stumbled on a hard one.

[+kunarion]

I'm a hardcore puzzle setter and solver and even I wouldn't put out a cache with maths like that. Without looking to see what other local puzzles are like I think you may have stumbled on a hard one.

But that one's solvable without matrices!

[+tozainamboku]

I'm a hardcore puzzle setter and solver and even I wouldn't put out a cache with maths like that. Without looking to see what other local puzzles are like I think you may have stumbled on a hard one.

I still think people are making too much of the math part of the puzzle. Someone with a math background may see a system of 15 equations with 15 unknowns and want to solve this as a linear algebra problem. I agree that someone with two arts degrees might not be expected to know linear algebra.

 

However, if you remember that A, B, C, etc. can only be one of digits 0, 1, 2, ... 9 then you can solve the equations using arithmetic and simple logic. The cache owner even tells you that (so it's not like I'm giving a spoiler). Because the equations involve some 3 and 4 digit numbers, you might need to use a calculator program like you have on your cell phone to do the arithmetic. The cache owner has also told you that.

[+usyoopers]

Hello!

 

So, I'm still relatively new to geocaching, but am very enthusiastic about the hobby. I've hidden a few myself and try to geocache every time we go on a trip (which isn't that often, but still.) I've logged close to 60 caches (like I said, just starting) but one of the kinds of caches I have never been able to tackle are most "Puzzle Caches."

 

I've grabbed most of the caches in my area, save for the remaining Puzzle Caches which just outright baffle me.

 

For instance,this cache is very near my house and is the first in a series I'd love to complete, but ... I admit, I have absolutely no clue what to do. I feel like A) my lack of exposure to complex mathematics in my life (arts major here) has me woefully under-qualified to undertake this type of cache, or it is a simpler process than it seems and I'm just new and truly don't know where to begin.

 

So, gaging from the cache listed above, is this a typical "puzzle cache" and I'm just in over my head, or does this one look particularly tricky? Honesty, I don't even know where to start beyond looking up the publication dates on the quotes.

 

I've gathered clues and computed final coords for a new waypoint before on some multi stages and letterboxes, but caches like this?

 

Wow.

 

I love geocaching, and find myself ignoring any cache listing with a "?" as its icon. I'd love any tips on how to read or practice or decipher puzzle caches so I don't keep skipping this unique kind of geocaching experience.

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

google can be your friend!

[+niraD]

According to section 2-D of the geocaching.com terms of use, "You agree not to: [...] xxiii. Publish on our websites the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the geocache owner.” However, here are some general puzzle tips (based in part on a puzzle-solving class event presented by The Rat a while ago):

 

Identify the theme. Check the cache title, the hint, the HTML source, the graphics (including names/URLs), any links (including URLs), whatever is at the posted coordinates, etc. If you can figure out the theme, then you should look for numbering systems that are associated with that theme (zip codes, athletes’ jersey numbers, episode numbers, product codes, etc.).

 

Around here, coordinates will have 15 digits, and will look like "N 37° xx.xxx W 122° xx.xxx". So when I'm solving a nearby puzzle, I look for a group of 15 things, and then I look for ways to get the digits 37xxxxx122xxxxx from them. In general, I look for ways to get the number 37 (or the digits 3 and 7) from something near the beginning of the puzzle, and the number 122 (or the digits 1, 2, and 2) from something near the middle of the puzzle. (Of course, you'll need to adjust this for the coordinates near you.)

 

Other useful resources include:

Puzzle Solving 101 Series (bookmark list)

Puzzle Shortcuts Series (bookmark list)

Solving Puzzle Caches (online article)

How Do I Solve All These $@! Puzzle Caches? (tutorial-style puzzle cache)

Puzzle FUNdamentals (archived event cache) and the Puzzle FUNdamentals resources on the GeocacheAlaska! education page

The GBA's Puzzle Cache FAQ (for puzzle designers, but useful for understanding how puzzle caches work)

 

If you’re interested in extremely challenging puzzles, then consider the online discussions of Venona’s ACTIVITIES in the GBA forums. The puzzles for this annual event are very challenging, intended to be solved by multiple people working together online. (You'll need to register on the GBA site to view these forum threads.)

Overview: Venona's 2011 ACTIVITIES

Overview: Venona's 2012 ACTIVITIES

[+tozainamboku]

Just to make the liberal arts majors feel better, I tried entering the first equation into Wolfram Alpha just to see if it would give me the solution. It was having a terrible time coming with integer solutions, until I finally got the date of publication of the first literary quote correct after three tries. Google was giving me different dates and not having that arts education it was a bit of a guessing game for me as to which one to use.

[Spearehead]

Firstly, I want to make PERFECTLY clear that I am not looking for help on this particular puzzle cache. I was simply using it as a current example of the kind of caches that make me scratch my head without a clue about where to begin!

 

Secondly, the info that niraD offered is EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for!! With puzzles like these some of the terminogy is even confusing to me, and I am really looking forward to looking through some of those "puzzle caches for dummies" type links!

 

Thank you for all the great replies and the information that passed so quickly through this thread.

 

I'm so ready for all the geocaching that the warning weather is bringing to the Midwest!

[+geodarts]

When I first began caching, I felt compelled to do the puzzle caches in my area. But after being led step by step by a CO into the depths of computer programs, I was told that another would be easy if I added trigonometry to my repertoire. So I began to question my need to do them. In the end I decided that I did not want to spend more time trying to solve a puzzle than I would spend looking for a cache. It seemed they either make work type of endeavors that were more tedious than difficult or required people to make twisted leaps of faith based on something that might have been in someone's mind.

 

Every once I will come across one where the subject matter interests me or I do one because I have nothing better to do at that moment. But generally I have other things to think about and can cache quite happily by ignoring them. I have never regretted my decision.

[+Ambrosia]

When I first began caching, I felt compelled to do the puzzle caches in my area. But after being led step by step by a CO into the depths of computer programs, I was told that another would be easy if I added trigonometry to my repertoire. So I began to question my need to do them. In the end I decided that I did not want to spend more time trying to solve a puzzle than I would spend looking for a cache. It seemed they either make work type of endeavors that were more tedious than difficult or required people to make twisted leaps of faith based on something that might have been in someone's mind.

 

Every once I will come across one where the subject matter interests me or I do one because I have nothing better to do at that moment. But generally I have other things to think about and can cache quite happily by ignoring them. I have never regretted my decision.

Completely agreed! It's not worth the stress. If it looks interesting or fun, do it. If it's complicated and will upset you, ignore it! I tend to ignore 95% of all puzzle caches.

[+terrkan78]

I like puzzles where I know what to do right off the bat and can solve the puzzle within a few hours. That right there eliminates a whole lot of puzzles for me (including anything with math). My favorites include easy field puzzles - don't see too many of them (I've hidden a few myself, just because I like them so much).

 

It bugs me that I can't solve so many puzzles around me (in fact I can't even figure out how to begin to solve some of them). But I'm happier since I quit beating my head against that particular brick wall.

[+MI_CO]

Firstly, I want to make PERFECTLY clear that I am not looking for help on this particular puzzle cache. I was simply using it as a current example of the kind of caches that make me scratch my head without a clue about where to begin!

 

Secondly, the info that niraD offered is EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for!! With puzzles like these some of the terminogy is even confusing to me, and I am really looking forward to looking through some of those "puzzle caches for dummies" type links!

 

Thank you for all the great replies and the information that passed so quickly through this thread.

 

I'm so ready for all the geocaching that the warning weather is bringing to the Midwest!

 

We are all good at different things! I can see how the quotes appealed to you, having art degrees. The math appealed to me, have engineering degrees! With the exception of the Fitzgerald quote (my all time favorite 'classic'), I had to Google all the other quotes, and was unfamiliar with over 75% until I found what the source was! After finding the source of the quotes and pub dates, I could do most of the math in my head.

 

When approaching puzzles, here are my basic tips:

 

1. Don't over-think!

2. Take as many clues as possible from the description, cache name, and in this case, the fact that the creator is a high school student. The math will probably not go beyond high school math (and it doesn't), some is jr. high math.

3. Google is your friend! Especially when looking up quotes, song titles, movie release dates, terms you are unfamiliar with.

4. If you find a puzzle that is driving you crazy, and you just can't leave it alone, attend an event get-together. Usually cachers in any area will meet up once a month at a local coffee shop or the like to meet each other and discuss caches, and puzzles come up often. You can get some helpful hints and puzzle solving techniques at such casual meetings.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

When I first began caching, I felt compelled to do the puzzle caches in my area. But after being led step by step by a CO into the depths of computer programs, I was told that another would be easy if I added trigonometry to my repertoire. So I began to question my need to do them. In the end I decided that I did not want to spend more time trying to solve a puzzle than I would spend looking for a cache. It seemed they either make work type of endeavors that were more tedious than difficult or required people to make twisted leaps of faith based on something that might have been in someone's mind.

 

Every once I will come across one where the subject matter interests me or I do one because I have nothing better to do at that moment. But generally I have other things to think about and can cache quite happily by ignoring them. I have never regretted my decision.

 

+1.....on the road I ignore them all but locally I'll at least look at them to see how much " inside computer time " is involved...we enjoy being outdoors so we've done very few puzzles.

[+Don_J]

When I first began caching, I felt compelled to do the puzzle caches in my area. But after being led step by step by a CO into the depths of computer programs, I was told that another would be easy if I added trigonometry to my repertoire. So I began to question my need to do them. In the end I decided that I did not want to spend more time trying to solve a puzzle than I would spend looking for a cache. It seemed they either make work type of endeavors that were more tedious than difficult or required people to make twisted leaps of faith based on something that might have been in someone's mind.

 

Every once I will come across one where the subject matter interests me or I do one because I have nothing better to do at that moment. But generally I have other things to think about and can cache quite happily by ignoring them. I have never regretted my decision.

Completely agreed! It's not worth the stress. If it looks interesting or fun, do it. If it's complicated and will upset you, ignore it! I tend to ignore 95% of all puzzle caches.

 

This is where I'm at. I look at every puzzle that is published in my area. Either I get it right off the bat, or I don't. If I get it, I solve it and download it to GSAK so I can look for the actual cache later. If I don't get, I just forget about it. Puzzles are excluded from my regular Pocket Queries.

[+hzoi]

This cache was the closest unfound cache to us for about a year and a half. I never found this one, either, which was somewhere near where I worked.

 

Clearly, the only solution was for us to leave the country, so we came back to the US in 2009.

[+svenena]

I have a lot of sympathy with this. Eight of the nearest twenty caches to my city centre workplace are puzzle caches. I've solved one of them, but I haven't a clue where to even start with the others! Thanks to niraD for the tips and links - I'll definitely check those sites out in the near future.

[+Ma & Pa]

I like puzzles where I know what to do right off the bat and can solve the puzzle within a few hours. That right there eliminates a whole lot of puzzles for me (including anything with math). ......

 

I agree with the first part of your statement. I like puzzles that give me a problem and ask me to solve it. In other words everything is on the cache page. In my case that could include logic problems, Sudoku, kenken, kakuro, and other math and logic type problems. This would also include such things as cryptograms and trivia puzzles where the answers can be obtained with google. These are the kinds of puzzles that we solve and create

 

I also agree with your statement below. We hate the puzzles where specialized knowledge is required, or computer skills or where we have no idea what the puzzle is about and where to begin the solving.

 

It bugs me that I can't solve so many puzzles around me (in fact I can't even figure out how to begin to solve some of them). But I'm happier since I quit beating my head against that particular brick wall.