FTF Being Claimed Before Cache is Published

[+T.D.M.22]

 

...

And as for caches published for events-yes you can blame the cache owner. There's no reason it can't be put out and reviewed earlier. 2 weeks, a month, even three months for large events. Sure there is the occasional permission issue, or final of a mystery cache, but that's why you do it early.

For my events, I asked the reviewer to hold off publishing untill after the event.

 

But my point is you didn't just send it for review the day before and hope it was all good, you did it in advance in case there where any issues right?

[+Mudfrog]

I had very 'interesting' situation around with FTF:

 

CO prepared serie of caches. Caches were all published together late afternoon.

But at the morning same day, 8 h before caches publication, CO has held an event (published on GC month ago) and all attendees have found these caches during event and claimed FTF - before publication.

 

Is it OK? I know that GC rules doesn't say anything about FTF, I'm personally not so keen in FTF hunting (I admit - I feel extra happy if being first), but this looks unfair for all non-participants of event.

 

This had occurred at a local event a while back. I didn't like the idea because in my mind, a cache is not ready to be found until it's published. I did end up logging those few finds that day because i knew it seemed silly not to and then have to make another trip back later after they got published. One thing was for sure, i didn't claim that i was ftf on any of those.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mudfrog

[Andronicus]

 

...

And as for caches published for events-yes you can blame the cache owner. There's no reason it can't be put out and reviewed earlier. 2 weeks, a month, even three months for large events. Sure there is the occasional permission issue, or final of a mystery cache, but that's why you do it early.

For my events, I asked the reviewer to hold off publishing untill after the event.

 

But my point is you didn't just send it for review the day before and hope it was all good, you did it in advance in case there where any issues right?

I had the location checked for proximity issues.

[Andronicus]

I had very 'interesting' situation around with FTF:

 

CO prepared serie of caches. Caches were all published together late afternoon.

But at the morning same day, 8 h before caches publication, CO has held an event (published on GC month ago) and all attendees have found these caches during event and claimed FTF - before publication.

 

Is it OK? I know that GC rules doesn't say anything about FTF, I'm personally not so keen in FTF hunting (I admit - I feel extra happy if being first), but this looks unfair for all non-participants of event.

 

This had occurred at a local event a while back. I didn't like the idea because in my mind, a cache is not ready to be found until it's published. I did end up logging those few finds that day because i knew it seemed silly not to and then have to make another trip back later after they got published. One thing was for sure, i didn't claim that i was ftf on any of those.

Something that should be kept in mind is that there are other listing websites. If a CO likes to cross post on this site and the garmin site, it will be published over there much sooner; and if there are any cachers that use the garmin site in the area, likely a FTF before it is published on geocaching.com.

[Mr.Yuck]

I had very 'interesting' situation around with FTF:

 

CO prepared serie of caches. Caches were all published together late afternoon.

But at the morning same day, 8 h before caches publication, CO has held an event (published on GC month ago) and all attendees have found these caches during event and claimed FTF - before publication.

 

Is it OK? I know that GC rules doesn't say anything about FTF, I'm personally not so keen in FTF hunting (I admit - I feel extra happy if being first), but this looks unfair for all non-participants of event.

 

This had occurred at a local event a while back. I didn't like the idea because in my mind, a cache is not ready to be found until it's published. I did end up logging those few finds that day because i knew it seemed silly not to and then have to make another trip back later after they got published. One thing was for sure, i didn't claim that i was ftf on any of those.

Something that should be kept in mind is that there are other listing websites. If a CO likes to cross post on this site and the garmin site, it will be published over there much sooner; and if there are any cachers that use the garmin site in the area, likely a FTF before it is published on geocaching.com.

 

That actually used to happen in my area quite a bit, with Navicache, but years ago. But since they've published less than 100 caches in the entire world in the last two years (seriously, they have), that would be quite the insignificant non-factor these days. Garmin? No one uses that in my area, but I suppose that could still be a factor in some places. But not much of one.

[+Team Dromomania]

It seems to me that most of the local events around here offer prizes of FTFs. The winners get to search for a FTF before the cache is listed. I call this beta testing! <GRIN>

I don't do the FTF gig and there are no official rules for FTF's. Each seem to make up their own rules. I can live with that and if and when I start counting my own FTF's I'll be sure to count my first finds of caches AFTER publication while ignoring those other beta testers.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

It seems to me that most of the local events around here offer prizes of FTFs. The winners get to search for a FTF before the cache is listed.

 

That's too bad. I would prefer to attend events created for the purpose of providing a time and venue for geocachers to socialize with each other, not as an opportunity for attendees to get FTF on a bunch of caches. I as under the impression that event caches were supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

It seems to me that most of the local events around here offer prizes of FTFs. The winners get to search for a FTF before the cache is listed.

 

That's too bad. I would prefer to attend events created for the purpose of providing a time and venue for geocachers to socialize with each other, not as an opportunity for attendees to get FTF on a bunch of caches. I as under the impression that event caches were supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

 

Agreed.

 

Come on out to the "Pig Roast" next weekend - nothing but socializing.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

It seems to me that most of the local events around here offer prizes of FTFs. The winners get to search for a FTF before the cache is listed.

 

That's too bad. I would prefer to attend events created for the purpose of providing a time and venue for geocachers to socialize with each other, not as an opportunity for attendees to get FTF on a bunch of caches. I as under the impression that event caches were supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

 

Agreed.

 

Come on out to the "Pig Roast" next weekend - nothing but socializing.

 

And, of course, a pig will be roasted.

[+baloo&bd]

That's too bad. I would prefer to attend events created for the purpose of providing a time and venue for geocachers to socialize with each other, not as an opportunity for attendees to get FTF on a bunch of caches. I as under the impression that event caches were supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

 

Not sure why both would be an issue?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

That's too bad. I would prefer to attend events created for the purpose of providing a time and venue for geocachers to socialize with each other, not as an opportunity for attendees to get FTF on a bunch of caches. I as under the impression that event caches were supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

 

Not sure why both would be an issue?

 

Because the latter is in violation of the guidelines

 

"An Event Cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together geocachers for an organized geocache search."

[+baloo&bd]

So per the guideline, no harm, no foul. Having both is OK.

[+sbell111]

An Event Cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together geocachers for an organized geocache search.

Edited July 25, 2014 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

I have two small children. It seems that they are always racing one another to do this or that. Sarah, my 4yo is faster so she often wins. She is quick to declare herself the winner, but somewhat often, Jake, my 3yo will throw the contest 'rules' out the window and call himself the winner, also. This results in an armed conflict because Sarah will hear nothing of it. Her need to get a formal ruling that he did not win and him to accept it is simply too strong, even though the race itself was meaningless and totally unsanctioned but also because his saying 'I won' immediately after she says 'I won' doesn't change anything.

 

It's the same thing with FTF. Why does anyone care if someone is using a different standard when they try to get FTFs? The person who signed the logbook first is fine to call themself FTF. The same goes for the guy who found it first after it was published. The same goes for the guy who signed the logbook first, but logged it online first. Why should anyone else care?

[+Lil Devil]

I'm FTF in this thread! Pbbth!

[+zach.ruesch]

I know that sometimes when the first person logs the cache, the log will show up below the "published" log, even when created after published. That being said, yes caches are often logged before being published.

Yeah, people play a lot of different ways. If I don't like it I ignore it. This is a game.

 

Where I used to live there were a lot of FTF hounds. I was scornful before one day I decided to see what the draw was. I found a big party of cachers. What fun!! So I went out for FTF's often just for the party.

 

Now where I live a cache can be active for days before it's logged. It takes the excitement out of FTF so I rarely bother.

 

 

 

I tell you, I had one great one!!! (I had to go back to put more exclamation marks in)

 

I was FTF on the Ape Cache replacement. THAT was exciting! It was a hike in, after an hour and a half drive. The whole way I had no idea if anyone had beat me to it.

Someone logged it one hour after me.

My hands were literally shaking as I opened the log book.

 

THAT was a fun FTF.

 

I enjoy FTF's too. They are a blast. It's not so much about beating someone and being "better" in some way. It's all about luck and chance, excitement. Plus, when you meet up with other cachers, it is awesome! I don't have many FTF's but they are each an experience. I just had one today! I took my 6 year old step-son along. He was even excited as we drove a few miles to check it out. We played in a park nearby for about 30 minutes to see if anyone else would show up. No dice. Good stuff. Find some! Get some!

[+zach.ruesch]

It seems to me that most of the local events around here offer prizes of FTFs. The winners get to search for a FTF before the cache is listed.

 

That's too bad. I would prefer to attend events created for the purpose of providing a time and venue for geocachers to socialize with each other, not as an opportunity for attendees to get FTF on a bunch of caches. I as under the impression that event caches were supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

 

Agreed.

 

Come on out to the "Pig Roast" next weekend - nothing but socializing.

 

And, of course, a pig will be roasted.

 

I'm hungry.

[+zach.ruesch]

Tonight around 2am the emails started pouring in and I was already in my car and literally around the corner from the first of an 18 cache series. Within five minutes I was at GZ with my flashlight searching for the first one. I found it, opened it up, and to my surprise the FTF was already claimed. Yet, one of the three people that claimed the FTF in the logbook is six years old and it's 2am. I know they weren't out there because when I say I was literally around the corner I mean it. I was coming off the highway and the GZ was in sight when I got the email. Once I loaded the app and followed it, which took about five minutes, I was there.

 

How do you feel about people logging finds before friends put the cache out or signing the logbook in general before a cache is published?

 

I didn't log it as found yet because I'm waiting to see what they say in their log before I log it.

 

Depends on the circumstances. I remember being second to find on a cache, four days before it was published. I was meeting a caching buddy in town and he'd found a cache that wasn't on his pocket query for the area, so he asked me about it and it reminded me of a really old one. But then he said the log was blank, so I checked my map and found no cache there. He showed me the cache and I signed the log too.

 

I gave my local friendly reviewer the coordinates and asked if we'd found a new cache or the final to a puzzle, and it turned out it was a cache that hadn't been published yet. It was pure luck, my caching buddy saw the area and figured it would be a good spot for a cache, and as luck would have it there was a cache there. So he claimed FTF and I claimed 2TF.

 

That is so legit it's not even funny! Good stuff. Find some! Get some!

[+HunterandSamuel]

On 3/22/2014 at 4:50 AM, team tisri said:

I gave my local friendly reviewer the coordinates and asked if we'd found a new cache or the final to a puzzle, and it turned out it was a cache that hadn't been published yet. It was pure luck, my caching buddy saw the area and figured it would be a good spot for a cache, and as luck would have it there was a cache there. So he claimed FTF and I claimed 2TF.

But what if the log was signed before it was even submitted to be published? And is also in a location that a cacher couldn't just come across accidently? And they didn't sign online because it wasn't published yet but someone found it immediately after being published and the first to sign the online log? Who gets the honor of being the FTF? 

[+HunterandSamuel]

On 7/27/2014 at 11:41 PM, zach.ruesch said:

 

I enjoy FTF's too. They are a blast. It's not so much about beating someone and being "better" in some way. It's all about luck and chance, excitement. Plus, when you meet up with other cachers, it is awesome! I don't have many FTF's but they are each an experience. I just had one today! I took my 6 year old step-son along. He was even excited as we drove a few miles to check it out. We played in a park nearby for about 30 minutes to see if anyone else would show up. No dice. Good stuff. Find some! Get some!

I feel the same way! FTFs are popular where I live. It's fun and exciting. 

[+The Jester]

29 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I feel the same way! FTFs are popular where I live. It's fun and exciting. 

And, obviously, not at all fun when you find that you are not FTF - as seen by your rants over several threads...

[+HunterandSamuel]

3 minutes ago, The Jester said:

And, obviously, not at all fun when you find that you are not FTF - as seen by your rants over several threads...

Ah, but I'm the FTF.  You seem bothered by my irks, which were done in the proper places. 

[Keystone]

I am closing this improvidently bumped thread.  Similar discussions are taking place elsewhere.

If you're going to bump a thread, do so providently.