+Mr. 0 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 I just got this e-mail today, and figured I'd let everyone know where their caches can be claimed. "Thank you for posting the information on the geocaching website. We would like to clarify our position. We did not change our rules and regulations to outlaw geocaching at our facilities. We require anyone who will be going off trail either for surveying or other work to get a special use permit. Your fellow geocachers failed to notify the park district of their actions and did not obtain a special use permit, therefore our decision to outlaw them. Also, please notify those folks that placed caches in the park(s) that they are able to come into our office and retrieve them. We currently have four in our possession, three of which were placed at Infirmary Mound Park and one that was placed at Taft Reserve. We are currently open 7 days a week from 8:30 a.m. until 4:30 p.m., unless other wise noted. Our office is located at Infirmary Mound Park in the large white brick house. We are still in the process of planning our Riverview Preserve clean up and are still interested in your assistance." Mr. 0 "Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested." Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970 Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Humm, looks like they just want to use geocachers to do some clean-up work to me. Why didn't they just notify the cache owners and explain their position? but no they "stole" the caches and now are willing to return them so as to get some geocachers to pick up trash. Special permit for geocachers?? but the public can visit and whatever without needing anything? sounds like a double standard to me. I know you didn't ask me but if it was me I would tell them to get off their own fat asses and clean the areas themselves. I wouldn't lift a finger to help them. JMHO Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 The one I placed at infirmarmy mound park was about 3 foot away from the parking lot,I do not consider this "off trail as it was near a picnic shelter, also they have nothing posted to let you know of their position,I dont think I would be too interested in helping them either. My cache there was I M cache I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 When I was there a few weeks ago seeking the last stolen cache, I even picked up a bunch of trash that was on the trails and had been run over by whomever was mowing the trails, I guess they are too lazy to get off the tractor and pick up the trash before the mow across it. But they have enough energy to walk 15 feet into the woods to remove a cache. Maybe I should bring the trash I removed back to them, I may have broken a rule by removing trash from the trails without a permit. Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 yea that would get them,was out there today and they had a horse meet at the arena .Boy,talk about off trail,cars,trucks,horse trailers parked in wey,muddy grass. Wonder if they had a Special use permit I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Something I noticed was there was horse **** everywhere even near the big palvilions, I would have thought they would have kept the horese away from the "people" areas but there was big piles of horse **** everywhere. But let your dog take a dump and you have to clean it up and maybe even get a fine for not doing it fast enough. Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 And those horses was tearing the heck out of the trails when it was so muddy. I don't understand why they even allowed them to be there while it is so muddy. Quote Link to comment
+Mr. 0 Posted June 7, 2003 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by rayt333:Humm, looks like they just want to use geocachers to do some clean-up work to me. Why didn't they just notify the cache owners and explain their position? but no they "stole" the caches and now are willing to return them so as to get some geocachers to pick up trash. Special permit for geocachers?? but the public can visit and whatever without needing anything? sounds like a double standard to me. I know you didn't ask me but if it was me I would tell them to get off their own fat asses and clean the areas themselves. I wouldn't lift a finger to help them. JMHO Yeah I'm not sure why they decided to do it as they did. I'm sure they have their reasons though. The only thing I can guess is that they wanted the removed ASAP, and were not sure how exactly to go about contacting the owners and/or return the caches. Yes I know the placers name is right on the cache page, like I said it's just a guess. As for the free help...I offered the suggestion myself. I mean we may not be happy about what's happened, but that's no reason to treat our parks poorly. No matter who runs them or what their policy is, they are still our parks, and to some degree a part of our responsibility to keep them clean. Plus anything we can do to help the parks opinion about Geocaching is a good thing. I certainly understand if nobody wants to participate in a clean up there, especially if your caches were removed. I still think that there are two ways we all can go about this; we can either work with them in spite of what's happened and try to make things better(at least keep things from getting worse), or we can thumb our noses at them, be difficult and ensure that they will never be willing to allow us back in the parks. I don't want anyone to think that I'm being a jerk about it or trying to tell anyone what to do, I realize that we're all entitled to our opinions, and this is mine. I'm not happy about what happened either, but I'm trying to see it from their perspective, and understand why exactly they've banned Geocaching. I'm also willing to try to change their opinion. Edit: I brought up the topic of doing some clean up work for them before they ever mentioned returning the caches. So it's not any sort of blackmail or anything ("Pick up trash at our parks or else you won't get your caches back). I was under the assumption that the owners of the caches had already been contacted. I didn't know until today that they were still holding the caches. Mr. 0 "Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested." Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970 [This message was edited by Mr. 0 on June 07, 2003 at 10:50 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Mr. 0 Posted June 7, 2003 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jacksons:The one I placed at infirmarmy mound park was about 3 foot away from the parking lot,I do not consider this "off trail as it was near a picnic shelter, also they have nothing posted to let you know of their position,I dont think I would be too interested in helping them either. My cache there was I M cache I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Since the internet is a poor medium for discussion, I want to say upfront that I'm not asking this to be a jerk, or make a point. I'm genuinely curious, so I can try to understand all sides of the issue. Was permission granted to place that cache? If you don't want to answer on here, or whatever shoot me a message. Mr. 0 "Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested." Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970 Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Mr.O, no, I did not ask for permission on I M cache,since it was right next to parking lot,public area,and not "off trail".If I place another in their area I would check with them first.I am getting a little upset about all these park people who think its their park,not the public's,also their total lack of common sense. I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+rayt333 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jacksons:Mr.O, no, I did not ask for permission on I M cache,since it was right next to parking lot,public area,and not "off trail".If I place another in their area I would check with them first.I am getting a little upset about all these park people who think its their park,not the public's,also their total lack of common sense. I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. I will have to agree with that statement as well, I have asked for permission for some of my hidden caches and in each case it became a long drawn out process, and usally since that fail to understand exactly what you are doing their answer is to deny permission. Some managers feel if they grant you permission and something happens then they may be liable. But these same managers do not care if a cache is placed without their approval since (I'm guessing) if they have no knowledge of it then they cannot be held liable. Where is this country going if we need special permits to access public property, today it is caches, tomorrow it will be hiking. Public property is (or should be) open to the public to do as they see fit as long as no damage is being done or nobody is being hurt. I feel my rights are trampled on when I am forced to ask for special permission just to have access to public property. Quote Link to comment
+Mr. 0 Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by rayt333: quote:Originally posted by Jacksons:Mr.O, no, I did not ask for permission on I M cache,since it was right next to parking lot,public area,and not "off trail".If I place another in their area I would check with them first.I am getting a little upset about all these park people who think its their park,not the public's,also their total lack of common sense. I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. I will have to agree with that statement as well, I have asked for permission for some of my hidden caches and in each case it became a long drawn out process, and usally since that fail to understand exactly what you are doing their answer is to deny permission. Some managers feel if they grant you permission and something happens then they may be liable. But these same managers do not care if a cache is placed without their approval since (I'm guessing) if they have no knowledge of it then they cannot be held liable. Where is this country going if we need special permits to access public property, today it is caches, tomorrow it will be hiking. Public property is (or should be) open to the public to do as they see fit as long as no damage is being done or nobody is being hurt. I feel my rights are trampled on when I am forced to ask for special permission just to have access to public property. Well I think that it's the typical case of one bad apple spoiling the bunch. It seems like with just about anything anymore no one wants to be held accountable for anything (mainly due to the lawsuit happy society we live in now, in my opinion). It seems that in parks, and everywhere you go there are more and more rules that are being made. Unfortunatly there seems to be nothing we can do about that. I also want to say, Jacksons, I wasn't trying to single you out or anything, or trying to say anything about not gaining permission. I admit that I've only gotten permission for one cache I've placed and that was after the fact. I've had to archive one because of that fact. I was just trying to see if you had gotten permission why they wouldn't have said anything about permits or anything. But I guess that's really a moot point. Either way I think that if we help them out we can try to work through the situation. Again I understand if neither of you are willing to participate, and that's certainly something I can't hold against either of you. You both hold strong opinions and strong cases against it. Mr. 0 "Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested." Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970 Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Mr. 0 no problem! didnt think you were "singleing me out",figured you were just asking question I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+Mr. 0 Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jacksons:Mr. 0 no problem! didnt think you were "singleing me out",figured you were just asking question I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. I just wanted to make sure that was clear...I know you "carry" Mr. 0 "Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested." Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970 Quote Link to comment
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