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An HG CO Incentive?


RenMin
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We all know the COs in our areas who excell in pumping out quality hides for us to find. In the upstate (Albany) area we have several with over 100 hides

And counting. The idea of an incentive to COs to put out caches may result in the overproduction of low quality hides. However, HG does highlight caches of the month which seems to reflect the importance of rewarding cachers who go above and beyond. The idea here is to reward volume by honoring COs with ( let's say) 200 or more published caches with a special geocoin. To tighten the parameters and to qualify for the coin favorite points (% of total) could be considered too.

I know COs place for the love of the game but what if HG could find a way to honor this type of CO? A penny for your thoughts..

( here are two examples in our area: Timpat and CDParker1, and I could name more)

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Are you saying incentive for publishing 200 caches or purely an incentive for a certain percentage of those caches that are favorited a certain amount of times? Because I think any incentive for a particular number of hides is going to result in only going to encourage people to crank out more caches to try and reach that number, and will not result in more quality caches, if they are encouraged to go for volume.

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The idea here is to reward volume by honoring COs with ( let's say) 200 or more published caches with a special geocoin.

 

Such geocoins are now sold, if you're interested in purchasing one as a reward for a local hider.

 

If your suggestion is that Groundspeak should gift coins to prolific hiders, this strikes me as unlikely in the extreme, and a bad idea, with or without favorite points considered.

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The idea here is to reward volume by honoring COs with ( let's say) 200 or more published caches with a special geocoin.

 

I doubt Groundspeak would get involved with such a reward system, but if you would like to implement such a arbitrary system, have at it!

 

There's a multitude of choices on the GS Store:

 

Geocoins

Awards and Milestones

 

Or better yet, you could design your own!

 

To tighten the parameters and to qualify for the coin favorite points (% of total) could be considered too.

 

Once again, I think this would best be implemented at the local level. If you were to fork out the money for the coins, or whatever reward system you see fit, you could implement any criteria you like. Who knows, it might catch on in other areas. If it resulted in a better cache experience, everyone wins.

 

Good luck,

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Are you saying incentive for publishing 200 caches or purely an incentive for a certain percentage of those caches that are favorited a certain amount of times? Because I think any incentive for a particular number of hides is going to result in only going to encourage people to crank out more caches to try and reach that number, and will not result in more quality caches, if they are encouraged to go for volume.

 

I agree. An incentive based solely on numbers would result in a glut of caches. The idea would be an incentive for quantity and quality. Criteria could include total hides (minimum of 200 ) with a certain % of those hides having 5 or more fav points. Additional factors could be included to measure quality. Those that place quality caches often and meet a numerical hide level that far exceeds the average for that area should be considered for a milestone geocoin by HQ ( not HG). Just a thought.

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I just do not see the need to reward volume beyond the satisfaction that some COs get from hiding volume.

 

Many COs would not ask for this cause, yes, they enjoy hiding for their community. I just thought it could be another way for HQ to expresses their appreciation for those who give more than they take.

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The idea here is to reward volume by honoring COs with ( let's say) 200 or more published caches with a special geocoin.

 

I doubt Groundspeak would get involved with such a reward system, but if you would like to implement such a arbitrary system, have at it!

 

There's a multitude of choices on the GS Store:

 

Geocoins

Awards and Milestones

 

Or better yet, you could design your own!

 

To tighten the parameters and to qualify for the coin favorite points (% of total) could be considered too.

 

Once again, I think this would best be implemented at the local level. If you were to fork out the money for the coins, or whatever reward system you see fit, you could implement any criteria you like. Who knows, it might catch on in other areas. If it resulted in a better cache experience, everyone wins.

 

Good luck,

 

First, Groundspeak is already involved in similar reward systems ( geocache of the week, cacher of the month) and each come with a "prize." They do this cause they know without such contributions the hobby wouldn't thrive. This is another idea they could consider.

 

As for cachers designing and paying for a special coin I only ask don't cachers pay already? We buy supplies, tools, containers, log books, swag, etc.. Not cause we are forced but because we want to. We enjoy getting involved and we willingly pay these costs. The idea simply asks HQ to consider investing in a way to highlight COs who have beyond the norm to create and publish caches in their community.

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I like the idea but not on a competitive level. When a cacher has hidden, say 50, caches he would be acknowledged by GS with a commemorative coin. Reviewers are volunteers who get coins etc.

There are other volunteers in our game without which there would be no game.....namely ,CO's.

 

As has been said, Coins&Pins and others offer award coins for hiders....these can be purchased on the local level and awarded to hiders.

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I understand what your aiming for, but setting aside the extreme improbability of such a system ever being implemented by GS HQ who already reward certain members of the geo-community, most often reviwers, with the occasional geocoin (or maybe they just did in the past, I don't know)... It would be extremely difficult to put a set of qualifications in place. 5 favourite points? Got 5 friends who can favourite your caches so you get a coin? 200 caches? Got 200 film canisters? Or worse, just 200 cache pages with random coords...

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As for cachers designing and paying for a special coin I only ask don't cachers pay already? We buy supplies, tools, containers, log books, swag, etc.. Not cause we are forced but because we want to. We enjoy getting involved and we willingly pay these costs. The idea simply asks HQ to consider investing in a way to highlight COs who have beyond the norm to create and publish caches in their community.

I agree with others that this should be done on a local level. I don't agree that cache owners *need* to be rewarded beyond the reward they already get from contributing to the game, to their geo-community, and getting find logs and appreciation from finders. There are many volunteering opportunities in our local communities all over the world, and the vast majority offer the same reward - internal personal satisfaction through your contributions. Offering some material reward based on certain criteria will only cause gaming of the system and I think bring a negative impact to the sport.

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I'm not keen on rewarding for the numbers, especially in cache dense areas, even if COs plant decent caches. It's getting so some COs will carpet bomb a trail as soon as they discover one. They may plant decent caches, but planting them tightly together so that there's no chance anyone else will get to plant on the trail for years to come, well it just seems a little greedy.

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First, Groundspeak is already involved in similar reward systems ( geocache of the week, cacher of the month) and each come with a "prize." They do this cause they know without such contributions the hobby wouldn't thrive. This is another idea they could consider.

 

Wisely, Groundspeak never rewards volume, only quality. Your proposal rewards volume.

 

As for cachers designing and paying for a special coin I only ask don't cachers pay already? We buy supplies, tools, containers, log books, swag, etc..

 

Whining is not likely to result in a positive response.

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One of the things I appreciate about Groundspeak is that they avoid promoting cache ownership among those who are not ready to own and maintain caches for the long term. They don't publish challenge caches that require cache ownership. They don't publish seed caches or other caches that require (or strongly encourage) the placement of new caches. They don't offer sweepstakes entries or geocoins or other prizes based on the number of caches people list on the site.

 

And that's a good thing. IMHO, and all that.

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First, Groundspeak is already involved in similar reward systems ( geocache of the week, cacher of the month) and each come with a "prize." They do this cause they know without such contributions the hobby wouldn't thrive. This is another idea they could consider.

 

Wisely, Groundspeak never rewards volume, only quality. Your proposal rewards volume.

 

As for cachers designing and paying for a special coin I only ask don't cachers pay already? We buy supplies, tools, containers, log books, swag, etc..

 

Whining is not likely to result in a positive response.

 

First, if you had even read the idea outlined here you would not claim, "your proposal rewards volume." Although one parameter is total number of hides >200, other parameters could be established

that bring quality into the picture. Most here seem not to trust favorite points as being a judge of quality, but I would suggest that as a parameter. Additional parameters could be included that are used to judge, cache of the week and cacher of the month, and focus on quality. So the "proposal" rewards volume balanced with high quality. There is an element of this hobby that is reward based and GS HQ plays into that. If it encourages movement in this hobby in a positive way, they will explore it.

 

Secondly, the last statement never really addresses the questions I posed, but assumes a negative action on my part. Is this an open forum to discuss ideas or isn't it?

 

The not-so-silent minority has spoken on this topic and I hereby consider it closed.

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The not-so-silent minority has spoken on this topic and I hereby consider it closed.

Ouch. To be fair, I think you got some pretty constructive criticism.

 

It's nice that you want to reward some geocachers that you believe have contributed significantly to the game, but some people here have raised excellent points why a world-wide system wouldn't work outside of the sort-of reward system GS HQ already has - cache of the week, cacher of the month.

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I think the only reward cache owners want is the knowledge that people are enjoying their efforts. I'd hate to see anything based on volume because we have plenty of cachers out there who sow film canisters like grass seed.

 

If you want to reward a cache owner, do it with a good log.

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First, Groundspeak is already involved in similar reward systems ( geocache of the week, cacher of the month) and each come with a "prize." They do this cause they know without such contributions the hobby wouldn't thrive. This is another idea they could consider.

 

Wisely, Groundspeak never rewards volume, only quality. Your proposal rewards volume.

 

As for cachers designing and paying for a special coin I only ask don't cachers pay already? We buy supplies, tools, containers, log books, swag, etc..

 

Whining is not likely to result in a positive response.

 

First, if you had even read the idea outlined here you would not claim, "your proposal rewards volume." Although one parameter is total number of hides >200, other parameters could be established

First, Fizzy is not alone in his summation. Your opening salvo dealt with volume. Even after you added in the favorite points angle, you still exclude the vast majority of those folks who create stellar hides, by picking a high volume number as your starting point.

 

Second, as Josh pointed out many posts ago, quantity and quality seldom go well together. Those who spew out the kind of volume you set as your starting point seldom create caches which get a high percentage of favorite points.

 

Third, don't get upset because the forums didn't fawn all over your idea.

 

Adapt, improvise & overcome.

 

Take the critique to heart, and adjust accordingly.

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First, if you had even read the idea outlined here you would not claim, "your proposal rewards volume." Although one parameter is total number of hides >200, other parameters could be established

that bring quality into the picture.

 

Let's go back to your original post, shall we? You wrote:

 

The idea here is to reward volume by honoring COs with ( let's say) 200 or more published caches with a special geocoin.

 

Seems like my claim that your proposal rewards volume is exactly what you posted. In fact, the fact that I nearly quoted you could be a hint that maybe I read your idea.

 

I just think it is a bad idea.

 

And I still don't know what HG is.

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I think by 'HG', the OP was meaning 'HQ'.

 

Rewarding all the best COs across the globe would be alot of work for Groundspeak. I think the best thing to do is to recognize COs locally. We do this here at an annual event and give out trophies. There is a trophy for most hides, but also for best puzzle, best camo etc.

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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First, Groundspeak is already involved in similar reward systems ( geocache of the week, cacher of the month) and each come with a "prize." They do this cause they know without such contributions the hobby wouldn't thrive. This is another idea they could consider.

 

Wisely, Groundspeak never rewards volume, only quality. Your proposal rewards volume.

 

As for cachers designing and paying for a special coin I only ask don't cachers pay already? We buy supplies, tools, containers, log books, swag, etc..

 

Whining is not likely to result in a positive response.

 

First, if you had even read the idea outlined here you would not claim, "your proposal rewards volume." Although one parameter is total number of hides >200, other parameters could be established

First, Fizzy is not alone in his summation. Your opening salvo dealt with volume. Even after you added in the favorite points angle, you still exclude the vast majority of those folks who create stellar hides, by picking a high volume number as your starting point.

 

Second, as Josh pointed out many posts ago, quantity and quality seldom go well together. Those who spew out the kind of volume you set as your starting point seldom create caches which get a high percentage of favorite points.

 

Third, don't get upset because the forums didn't fawn all over your idea.

 

Adapt, improvise & overcome.

 

Take the critique to heart, and adjust accordingly.

 

Agreed that some good points were raised and that the forum kicked against idea. I disagree that the suggestion focused solely on volume. Original post mentions other parameters to reward quality with high volume. Although rare these qualities can and do go together. The question is if we add more "rewards" where does it end? I can see how that could be problematic.

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I think by 'HG', the OP was meaning 'HQ'.

 

Rewarding all the best COs across the globe would be alot of work for Groundspeak. I think the best thing to do is to recognize COs locally. We do this here at an annual event and give out trophies. There is a trophy for most hides, but also for best puzzle, best camo etc.

 

Yes, in my haste I typed HG instead of HQ. Which was my attempt to abbreviate Groundspeak headquarters.

 

If you read this could you send me a link to the event you mention? I am curious to see how they put it together and may attempt a similar one in my area.

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( here are two examples in our area: Timpat and CDParker1, and I could name more)

 

When I think of the capital region in NY, the first name that comes to mind is Rusty'O Junk. Now there's a guy with some excellent Wherigo skills and creative caches!

 

I like the idea of recognizing cachers for their creativity and quality caches, however to benchmark that a cacher have a certain amount of hides (over 100) would be a bit off putting to me. By the way, aren't creative hiders already showcased via geocacher of the month?

 

Maybe a good bode of motivation would be to offer a souvenir to a cacher that places a cache that has earned an allotted amount of favorite points.

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( here are two examples in our area: Timpat and CDParker1, and I could name more)

 

When I think of the capital region in NY, the first name that comes to mind is Rusty'O Junk. Now there's a guy with some excellent Wherigo skills and creative caches!

 

I like the idea of recognizing cachers for their creativity and quality caches, however to benchmark that a cacher have a certain amount of hides (over 100) would be a bit off putting to me. By the way, aren't creative hiders already showcased via geocacher of the month?

 

Maybe a good bode of motivation would be to offer a souvenir to a cacher that places a cache that has earned an allotted amount of favorite points.

 

Yes he is another cacher that is a great example.

 

The idea rests on two things: prolific cache placement combined with high quality hides. A rare combination I know but they do exist. Longevity in the hobby with a consistency in quality product is notable.

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Though I consider Renmin a friend, I have to agree and disagree with him on his original post. I agree that cachers who hide quality caches should be honored in some way... However, where I disagree with him is in the way his idea goes about doing so.

 

For arguments sake, lets say I own 50 caches and everyone was handmade, well thought out, and high quality generating on 5-10 fav points each, by Renmin's stipulations in his OP, I would not qualify to be honored for my caches because I do not have a high enough hide count. Now keep in mind, I did not hide my caches to get that honor or special prize. I hid them for the joy of others to find and seeing the positive logs and feedback on them is reward enough. But if I were to find out that cachers in my area with "200+" hides were being honored for their "quality" caches when only about 25% of those caches were generating fav points, that would put a sour taste in my mouth with the hobby and area cachers.

 

I would agree with one of the latter posts that mentioned an event as a way to honor those cachers with quality hides. I am glad to see that he is considering the idea. If the local event route is how he goes, I would suggest looking at the total hides a cacher has and of those hides with fav points, do the math and those with (lets say) 50%+ of hides with fav points gets honored at the event.

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Though the biggest contention here is how to define a "quality hide." The key here is quality, which means something different to everyone. Some people may consider a quality hide to be the location, so they will award a pill bottle in a scenic location a fav point, where as someone else might consider a quality hide to be a well camoed ammo box in a mundane urban environment. While there are those that will take both location and container to into account to be a quality hide. There are others still that may think that a quality hide are those parking lot light pole skirt caches are good quality and anything else that took more time to make or hide is over the top.

 

The quantity part is easy to establish. How do we determine what is a quality hide? I know what I consider to be a quality hide, and I tend to fit into the group that takes the whole experience into account. I personally look at the container, the camo, the location, etc before I award out my fav points.

 

So where do we set the bar to be met or exceeded to be considered a quality cache? Once this can be established, the idea could work for the good of the hobby.

Edited by SirBowen
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Giving excellent geocachers recognition is a good thing, and I support it wholeheartedly, but I believe the people best suited to determine this are your own local geocaching community. I'm sure you know what geocachers have great hides in upstate NY, and are in a position to incentive them locally. But what is a good standard in Albany may be completely different in other places, and the people that know these things are the locals. Would it mean more to you to get some kind of "badge" from HQ than to be recognized by your peers as being an excellent role-model for geocaching? Who is more likely to come to your events, find your caches and share geocaching stories with you?

 

To be honest, the Geocacher Of The Month recognition thing bothers me a little. It reminds me of grade-school popularity contests, where the people with the most friends win. Areas with large geocaching communities square off against other large-geocaching communities. I do like to see the nominees that HQ selects and the nice things people say about them, but then it seems to boil down to which local community can garner the most "likes". But maybe I'm just jaded because I never won any popularity contests back in grade school :( .

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To be honest, the Geocacher Of The Month recognition thing bothers me a little. It reminds me of grade-school popularity contests, where the people with the most friends win. Areas with large geocaching communities square off against other large-geocaching communities. I do like to see the nominees that HQ selects and the nice things people say about them, but then it seems to boil down to which local community can garner the most "likes". But maybe I'm just jaded because I never won any popularity contests back in grade school :( .

Yeah, I agree. That's not to suggest that the folks nominated are not awesome. They are! It's when Joe Public tries to decide the winner. Every month, Faceybook and Twits are saturated with folks promoting their buddies. The person who has the larger social connection will win, hands down, regardless of whether they are worthy. It's the same sophomoric drama observed in every year, in every middle and high school across the nation.

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To be honest, the Geocacher Of The Month recognition thing bothers me a little. It reminds me of grade-school popularity contests, where the people with the most friends win. Areas with large geocaching communities square off against other large-geocaching communities. I do like to see the nominees that HQ selects and the nice things people say about them, but then it seems to boil down to which local community can garner the most "likes". But maybe I'm just jaded because I never won any popularity contests back in grade school :( .

Yeah, I agree. That's not to suggest that the folks nominated are not awesome. They are! It's when Joe Public tries to decide the winner. Every month, Faceybook and Twits are saturated with folks promoting their buddies. The person who has the larger social connection will win, hands down, regardless of whether they are worthy. It's the same sophomoric drama observed in every year, in every middle and high school across the nation.

Which is exactly why I feel that recognition is best done locally. But even that can become a popularity contests I guess. It probably depends on what your local geocaching organizations/communities are like. At least if it's done locally, any drama is only local and the rest of the global geocaching community doesn't have to get embarrassed by it.

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This discussion is proving to be rich. I think if I funnel what we discussed here into a local event to honor the "placers," I think this thread will have done it's work.

If these kinds of things are elevated to a national level by HQ, they will get more subjective and less objective.

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