New souvenir: "The Maker Event"

[+thebruce0]

Not sure I understand why you're such a big cheerleader for everything GS cooks up. Are you somehow affiliated with Grounspeak? Just curious. You don't really seem to turn a critical eye to any of their odd projects.

 

Nope, I just prefer being positive whenever possible unless there's something reasonable to be concerned about, or to constructively criticize.

Edited March 4, 2014 by thebruce0

[cezanne]

Don't be a worry-wart! Take advantage of the opportunity - create a Maker Madness event centered around the types of caches you enjoy, and encourage other locals in your area to create those types of caches; set the example, be the change (instead of declaring on the forums that the sky is falling every time Groundspeak tries something that you personally don't like)

 

First, I have a tendency towards being a worry-wart in general. Second, I did not say anything of the type that the sky will falling if Groundspeak offers special events for a 2 weeks period.

Third, I just explained that I do not like certain aspects of the Maker madness event idea (including the name and what you call promo speak).

Fourth, I will not organize "A Maker Event" and I will not participate in one as I do not feel as a maker. Fifth, I do not have any issue with people who do not share my opinion.

 

I do not understand this thread as encouraging GS, but as a discussion thread. That's an entirely different situation to providing feedback when someone who has an idea asks about what I think about the idea. I then would try to be encouraging and constructive even if there are personal reasons for not liking the idea. For example in school, at work, but also in private relationships encouragement and not being negative right away is certainly important. I do not understand this thread as a feedback thread however.

 

If the promo speak and the other language applied by GS appeals to you, fine. It does not appeal to me and I'm convinced that cultural differences play a role in this different perception as well. The more I think about it the more I come to conclude that probably also the meaning of "der Macher" in German are a source for my ambivalent feelings and a reason for why I certainly do not want to be considered as a maker.

 

Cezanne

Edited March 4, 2014 by cezanne

[+The_Incredibles_]

Don't be a worry-wart! Take advantage of the opportunity - create a Maker Madness event centered around the types of caches you enjoy, and encourage other locals in your area to create those types of caches; set the example, be the change (instead of declaring on the forums that the sky is falling every time Groundspeak tries something that you personally don't like)

 

yes, Yes, YES!!! Seize the day! Carpe diem. Something like that.

 

And quit the whinin.

 

We've got big plans for our maker event. Gonna have a table setup with lots of natural and unnatural materials where people can camo their own container. Plus hope to have a demo and display on intercaching. The only downside of the whole thing is that it is outdoors, so no cheap highs from overuse of construction adhesive.

[cezanne]

We've got big plans for our maker event. Gonna have a table setup with lots of natural and unnatural materials where people can camo their own container.

 

If you have plans like that and taking into account that maker has a different meaning for you as it has for me (due to different mother tongues), it is not surprising that you are looking forward to your event and do not feel that the name "maker event" does not apply. I wish you all the best for your event. Have fun and enjoy it.

 

My point is this: If an event deals with camouflaging containers in various manners, this is much more an action where terms like making make sense than for selecting a nice rock formation for hiding a standard

lock and lock container there. Human beings are not the makers of Mother Nature's creations, but yet at the same time these natural creations are what my personal focus of geocaching lies on.

[+Team Microdot]

My point is this: If an event deals with camouflaging containers in various manners, this is much more an action where terms like making make sense than for selecting a nice rock formation for hiding a standard

lock and lock container there. Human beings are not the makers of Mother Nature's creations, but yet at the same time these natural creations are what my personal focus of geocaching lies on.

 

You could probably save yourself a lot of time by having a pre-defined boilerplate text of I don't like this and I think it will destroy geocaching that you can just copy/paste on most occasions

[+SirDonB]

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June. Granted its a trackables event, but I feel that the maker event can apply here as well.

 

I agree that you make a container or camo, not the spot which you pick to hide your cache.

[+thebruce0]

Cezanne, you've made your point, posted your opinion. There is a line when constant repetition becomes a depressing weight pulling others down needlessly. If you're not crying that the sky is falling, and you've offered your feedback, and discussion won't change your mind because of fundamental 'cultural' differences, then please then just let it be. At that point you're no longer really adding anything more new, constructively critical or productive to the discussion. I'm confident you're not the only one in the world who is not interested in the events or the theme. And that's perfectly fine. So why not now let people who want to enjoy it enjoy it?

[+thebruce0]

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June. Granted its a trackables event, but I feel that the maker event can apply here as well.

heh, I don't see why you can't still make the same themed event in June, there'd just be no souvenir associated with it

You could print souvenirs and give them to people!

[+niraD]

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June.

Yeah, the next Little Shop of Horrors event is already scheduled for April 19, which is too late to qualify for this "Maker Event" promotion. But the organizer is considering a quick LSOH Lite event during the time period allowed by the promotion.

[cezanne]

Cezanne, you've made your point, posted your opinion. There is a line when constant repetition becomes a depressing weight pulling others down needlessly. If you're not crying that the sky is falling, and you've offered your feedback, and discussion won't change your mind because of fundamental 'cultural' differences, then please then just let it be. At that point you're no longer really adding anything more new, constructively critical or productive to the discussion. I'm confident you're not the only one in the world who is not interested in the events or the theme. And that's perfectly fine. So why not now let people who want to enjoy it enjoy it?

 

I would not have replied several times if no reproaches I felt to be not justified like "whining", "complaining" and others were brought forward.

My point that apparently did not get through at all was about the used language and not about the events itself. I felt the need to defend myself.

 

I do not think that any of those who will organize or participate in a "The Maker Event" would have less fun if a different name and a different way to promote these events had been chosen. If you really think that this is the case, then please provide arguments. I'm aware of the fact that many do not care about the language aspect at all - for them the events could be called whatever way as long as they are fun, but not everyone is like that. It appears to me that we are discussing at different levels of the topic. Those who suggest organizing such an event or participating in one, discuss at the level of an individual event and not at the level of the name of the event type and the texts that are used for announcing the events and for acknowledging those who took part. The cultural aspect I was talking about was a language aspect and not an aspect about liking or not liking events.

 

Cezanne

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

It appears to me that we are discussing at different levels of the topic. Those who suggest organizing such an event or participating in one, discuss at the level of an individual event and not at the level of the name of the event type and the texts that are used for announcing the events and for acknowledging those who took part.

 

So let me get this straight...you are hung up on the nomenclature used for this special type of event? Are you kidding me?!?!

 

From the blog:

 

"From March 28 – April 7, geocachers around the world will join together to celebrate the people in their community who make geocaching possible." and "Go forth and create."(my bold)

 

Get over it.

 

Nothing I have read implies this is only about physically making caches. It's about making (or if you'd rather "creating") opportunities for others to enjoy, or to celebrate those that make (or "facilitate" if you'd prefer) caching fun for others.

 

Jeez.

[+tozainamboku]

I agree with cezzane that the word "maker" implies some actual construction of a cache container more than the generic concept of creating a holistic geocache experience for the seekers of a cache. It wasn't until NYPaddleCacher pointed out the social media meaning of "maker culture" that I understood that the concept could apply to any creative process, whether the result is a physical object or an entire experience. The likelihood is that most events will concentrate on physical cache construction or camouflage techniques. I suspect that some will concentrate on eating pizza and drinking beer and simple claim the "maker event" moniker to get the souvenir. But I don't believe that Groundspeak is putting any restrictions that prevent events from including any aspect of creating geocaching experiences.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June. Granted its a trackables event, but I feel that the maker event can apply here as well.

heh, I don't see why you can't still make the same themed event in June, there'd just be no souvenir associated with it

You could print souvenirs and give them to people!

 

On the other hand, if GS keeps the Maker Event registration form available, an event in June *could* be registered as a Maker Event and those posting Attended logs for a registered event could get a souvenir.

 

This might be an interesting approach for other types of events. For example, suppose GS want to give out a souvenir for attending a CITO event. A CO could create an Event listing, then once published, register it as a CITO event. Then when attendees post their attendee logs, the system would check if they have been previously been awarded a souvenir for attending a CITO event, and if not, award a CITO event souvenir.

 

[+thebruce0]

Depends if the souvenir system is based on dates as of logging (if the 'period' applies to the event's publish date rather than creation date; presumably the former).

 

But I wonder... if you create an event outside the souvenir/promo period, then before anyone logs an attended, change the 'placed date' (when the event is scheduled to occur) back to the necessary period. Then once every logs their Attended and gets the souvenir, change the date back to the proper one...

 

Would that be a cheat workaround? Or does the event need to be explicitly flagged by Groundspeak as souvenir qualification? By some past event-souvenir period, it didn't seem as such. I recall during the Space one, I think, that if you logged an attended on any event during the promo time, that you'd get the souvenir.

[+DanOCan]

Always something to complain about.

You're reading FAR too much into this.

 

It's an event theme to focus on the creation of geocaches. The rest of it is promo-speak. Whether "making" to you is puzzle design, or high-tech full-fledged day-long experiences. Just enjoy the theme, maybe be inspired for the next cache you go out and hide. That's it.

 

Great...so why don't they just say EXACTLY THAT?

Because as soon as you talk in a normal tone you eliminate the need for corporate communications people.

 

Now, excuse me, as I have to go to a meeting participate in a working group where I will report on key performance indicators used to validate my team is engaged in meeting the objectives set out in our strategy statement and overall vision.

Edited March 4, 2014 by DanOCan

[cezanne]

It appears to me that we are discussing at different levels of the topic. Those who suggest organizing such an event or participating in one, discuss at the level of an individual event and not at the level of the name of the event type and the texts that are used for announcing the events and for acknowledging those who took part.

 

So let me get this straight...you are hung up on the nomenclature used for this special type of event? Are you kidding me?!?!

 

Yes, the nomenclature, but also the explanatory texts and the acknowledgement text that will be sent to particants and all what it seems to express for me including the many connotations.

 

They either could use normal and neutral language if they really want to appeal to all cache hiders who facilitate (I borrowed your term) caching fun for others.

 

It might be that there exists a maker culture in social media too (as someone pointed out in this thread). I have never heard about it. I have heard however about the type of maker culture

described in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker_culture

and this and the pictures showing tools point into the direction of meeting in order to create special containers and camouflages.

 

As I have mentioned, I have another issue with the term "maker" - it reminds of the German macher which is quite often used in the negative sense of self-important, a bigwig.

 

I have started to hide geocaches very soon after having found my first caches (and several of those old caches still exist) and unlike many of the oldtimers in my area I have not stopped hiding caches and I'm currently working on a new one. I do not consider myself however as a maker and even less as being mad.

 

Noone will be harmed by the used language and it will not keep people from having fun with "Maker events". I stick however with my opinion that the name for the event idea and the accompanying texts are not well thought out.

 

Cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

Noone will be harmed by the used language and it will not keep people from having fun with "Maker events". I stick however with my opinion that the name for the event idea and the accompanying texts are not well thought out.

 

Let's hear your suggestions then and the rationale behind them.

 

Rather than constantly branding the ideas and efforts of others as inherently bad you could demonstrate here what your ideas are and precisely how they are better?

 

Not that, as you've already pointed out, it will make much difference as noone will be harmed by the used language and it will not keep people from having fun with Maker events.

[+funkymunkyzone]

I can't believe the negativity over one word. If you create a caching experience, that might be a nice hike to a nice spot with some nice view/waterfall/mountain/forest/whatever and you place a lock and lock there for other geocachers to find, then you have made something for others to enjoy, and good on you. And that, amongst other definitions, is what Groundspeak have defined for these Maker Madness events. They can hardly be blamed for some German word that sounds similar and means something else!

[cezanne]

Let's hear your suggestions then and the rationale behind them.

 

Why not use the well established notions (cache) hider/owner? Maker is not a well established notion on this site and it certainly causes confusion and misinterpretation and has negative connotation in some

cultures.

Why introduce the maker notion if not something different than hider is meant?

Why not use a normal tone as another cacher asked above? Why use madness/mad? (Do we need that many adjectives? This also concerns the accompanying texts.)

 

Creating special containers, puzzles etc could be mentioned as examples as of course creating creative containers is a well established source of creating fun for a large group of cachers.

[+Team Microdot]

Let's hear your suggestions then and the rationale behind them.

 

Why not use the well established notions (cache) hider/owner?

 

Why not use any other similar word? Language is rich and diverse - why limit ourselves to some arbitrarily selected, restrictive list of words when there are so many to choose from?

 

Maker is not a well established notion on this site and it certainly causes confusion and misinterpretation and has negative connotation in some cultures.

 

This isn't a suggestion - just another criticism. I asked for your constructive suggestions and for an explanation as to specifically why you considered them better options than the selected ones.

 

Why introduce the maker notion if not something different than hider is meant?

 

This isn't a suggestion either.

 

 

Why not use a normal tone as another cacher asked above?

 

This isn't a suggestion either.

 

Also, what is normal? If you're going to cite cultural differences as the rationale behind your issues with the words used by Groundspeak surely you'll have to accept that normal is also defined differently in different cultures.

 

Why use madness/mad? (Do we need that many adjectives? This also concerns the accompanying texts.)

 

This isn't a suggestion either - I really wanted to hear YOUR ideas and YOUR explanation of specifically why your ideas are better than those of others.

 

Creating special containers, puzzles etc could be mentioned as examples as of course creating creative containers is a well established source of creating fun for a large group of cachers.

 

So it's OK for those things to be mentioned specifically and explicitly, but the fact you interpret the words used to suggest those things is bad?

 

The thought process behind that one mystifies me.

[+thebruce0]

Maker is not a well established notion on this site

Why does it need to be? It's just part of the name with the implication of.. you know..making things. I would wager that the vast majority of the geocaching community (probably more than even know how to use a smartphone) have actually never heard of the "Maker" community. "Maker Madness" means just that - a fun event about making geocaches.

 

and it certainly causes confusion and misinterpretation and has negative connotation in some

cultures. Why introduce the maker notion if not something different than hider is meant?

Because the focus of these events is making! This does not preclude people from expanding it to mean general creation of geocache listings and hides and experiences.

 

Why not use a normal tone as another cacher asked above? Why use madness/mad?

Because it's fun, it's a common term or cliche that implies entertainment, extreme joy, fun - also, alliteration! Yes, perhaps it's a more relevant term for English and/or western culture, but then your concern wouldn't be the events or the theme itself, rather how well Groundspeak markets their ideas to other cultures/languages.

 

What is it that precisely you have a problem with here?

The name?

The concept?

The cultural divide in Groundspeak's marketing tactics?

You seem to have criticized each of these. Repeatedly. Redundantly.

 

Creating special containers, puzzles etc could be mentioned as examples as of course creating creative containers is a well established source of creating fun for a large group of cachers.

Other possible event themes exist, for sure. But this one is labeled "Maker Madness" - interpret that theme however you please (or don't, and ignore it).

Edited March 4, 2014 by thebruce0

[cezanne]

Because the focus of these events is making!

 

I'm still not sure what GS really means. First, I thought that they focus on making containers, but what Jayme wrote points in another direction and also others wrote that making just should mean creating.

 

So does it make sense to use a term that means different things for different people?

 

 

This does not preclude people from expanding it to mean general creation of geocache listings and hides and experiences.

 

I prefer clear terminology. It is a bit like the suggestions of some people to use Waymarking for things Waymarking has not be set up for.

 

Why not use a normal tone as another cacher asked above? Why use madness/mad?

Because it's fun, it's a common term or cliche that implies entertainment, extreme joy, fun - also, alliteration! Yes, perhaps it's a more relevant term for English and/or western culture, but then your concern wouldn't be the events or the theme itself, rather how well Groundspeak markets their ideas to other cultures/languages.

 

Maker madness is definitely nothing that implies entertainment, extreme joy etc in my part of the world which is part of the Western world.

 

As to my concern, it depends on what is really meant by maker. If cache maker events are meant only to celebrate those who make special containers, then my second concern apart from the marketing/language aspect is that I regard it as unfair to ignore the contribution of those cache hiders to geocaching who do not hide caches with special containers. But even in that case it is a again more a question of how Groundspeak's announcements are formulated. There would be nothing wrong with an event series specially dedicated to the construction of special containers, technical equipment etc. My objections refer to the way the role of makers in geocaching is described that makes me feel that the contributions of those who hide old-school caches are not acknowledged.

 

But this one is labeled "Maker Madness" - interpret that theme however you please (or don't, and ignore it).

 

Whenever something of this type needs interpretation, there is something wrong with the naming and announcements in my opinion.

Edited March 4, 2014 by cezanne

[+funkymunkyzone]

As to my concern, it depends on what is really meant by maker.

This has been explained to you ad nauseum.

[+tozainamboku]

As to my concern, it depends on what is really meant by maker.

This has been explained to you ad nauseum.

I'm not sure that solves his problem. Whatever Groundspeak means by "Maker Event", what each of these events will be is up to the organizer. It could well be that a non-native English speaker will rely on a dictionary or on Google translate to decide what a Maker Event is. Very likely events will be about construction of geocache containers and camouflage and not about other aspects of cache creation. Someone like cezanne may not be interested in an event on this narrow topic. My guess is that he will have to wait and see what events if any are scheduled in his area and whether they look appealing or not. He may feel left out in his area even though an event in another area is exploring a broader aspect of cache creation.

 

I think we best look at these "themed events plus a souvenir" as an experiment (like I <3 geocaching lab caches). Seems like every month we're going to get another theme from Groundspeak meant to generate interest for geocachers who may get bored otherwise. For the many geocachers who manage to have fun without collecting silly souvenirs and icons that Groundspeak throws at us, we can choose to participate or not. We can also choose to make suggestion for future themes and provide input on whether the themes are relevant to us or not.

 

Perhaps we have spent too much time discussing what a cache maker is. I think many of us would say that it doesn't matter as it is just a theme and not meant to provide all the details, but I think we can understand the confusion when we get one view from the official blog and another from Jayme posting in the forum. I doubt either is meant to be an official definition of what a "maker" is, they are just giving different examples what can be done with this theme.

[+thebruce0]

I think we best look at these "themed events plus a souvenir" as an experiment (like I <3 geocaching lab caches). Seems like every month we're going to get another theme from Groundspeak meant to generate interest for geocachers who may get bored otherwise. For the many geocachers who manage to have fun without collecting silly souvenirs and icons that Groundspeak throws at us, we can choose to participate or not. We can also choose to make suggestion for future themes and provide input on whether the themes are relevant to us or not.

and right there you've just done what cezanne would have been better off doing... that was constructively critical, with the rest of your comment, imo.

[+funkymunkyzone]

No one is obligated to run an event for cezanne, and cezanne can run their own event if they wish and theme it themselves, however they wish.

 

I've run a few events in my time and some of them have included a great deal of prep and organisation on my part (including a mega event) - if anyone ever complained that I didn't put on exactly what they wanted and accused me of excluding them I reckon my first reaction might be to tell them where to go!

[+niraD]

Maker madness is definitely nothing that implies entertainment, extreme joy etc in my part of the world which is part of the Western world.

I assumed that it was wordplay on the phrase March Madness, which refers to something that is indeed considered enjoyable entertainment to many here in the USA. But that's probably just my local bias showing.

 

If cache maker events are meant only to celebrate those who make special containers, then my second concern apart from the marketing/language aspect is that I regard it as unfair to ignore the contribution of those cache hiders to geocaching who do not hide caches with special containers.

The containers shown in the photo below are not "special", at least not in the sense I think you intend. But one is ready to be used as a geocache container, and the other isn't. The local Little Shop of Horrors events are exactly the kind of event I thought of when I read the Maker Madness announcement. And preparing containers as shown in the photo below is the kind of work that happens at the LSOH events, just as much as the preparation of "special" containers.

Edited March 4, 2014 by niraD

[+suchanana]

methinks i'll attend to make and/or help and share in the geocaching experience as best as i can and usually do...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Maker is not a well established notion on this site

Why does it need to be? It's just part of the name with the implication of.. you know..making things. I would wager that the vast majority of the geocaching community (probably more than even know how to use a smartphone) have actually never heard of the "Maker" community. "Maker Madness" means just that - a fun event about making geocaches.

 

I hope that this doesn't this doesn't go further off topic, but a derivative of the "Maker" meme is something called a "Hackerspace". A Hackerspace is generally a community operated "space" where like minded people can meet to create (make) software application and design computer related hardware. The hacker space is typically full of computers and hardware components that "makers" can use to develop new technology. They're commonly used by small 2-3 people considering forming a startup. It has been suggested that the Maker meme is culturally foreign in some places. Hackerspaces, more commonly know as TechHubs or InnovationHubs are very common in Africa where dozens of startup companies (mostly mobile application developed) have been spawned. As I see it, a Maker Madness event is basically just announcing a "hackerspace" where one can go on a specifc day to learn about and make geocachers. Personally, I think the Maker meme has become more a marketing tool than the purpose of a hackerspace, but if it helps geocacher learn about, and actually make better geocachers I can overlook the controversy over what it's called.

[+NeverSummer]

I read the idea as a way for our state's organization to support celebration of those who we want to honor for their efforts to place memorable caches. We've mophed it into more of a local celebration of many "cacher of the month" nominiees based on placement as a criteria.

 

We've been trying to have some good recognition to build on the community aspect of our organization, and this provided a souvenir for taking the time to celebrate people we wanted to honor for their contributions to the game in Alaska.

 

That may not be what others do, but the process seems rather open-ended.

 

Some may choose to host events that show how to camo caches, a "How to create a cache 101" class, or turn into a big craft fair. Others might choose to use it as a way to recognize others and celebrate.

 

All in all, I don't see what probems with this people are having.

[+funkymunkyzone]

Some may choose to host events that show how to camo caches, a "How to create a cache 101" class, or turn into a big craft fair. Others might choose to use it as a way to recognize others and celebrate.

 

All in all, I don't see what probems with this people are having.

+1!

[cezanne]

As to my concern, it depends on what is really meant by maker.

This has been explained to you ad nauseum.

 

The explanations are contradictory. In the last post bruce0 wrote that it is indeed true that with maker those cachers are meant that make creative containers, but that the events can be used also for other purposes.

That's simply not satisfactory to me. I'm sure that some maker events will be just meet and greet events in disguise that would have taken place anyway in exactly the same format and now are remodeled to obtain the new souvenir. The real question is however whether the intent behind the maker events is to acknowledge the contribution of those who make special containers or of all who hide caches that are enjoyable. It's obvious that the maker events can be used in many ways as there is no control board and Groundspeak seems to love fuzzyness anyway. My question is what exactly Groundspeak had in mind. If it is not only about making containers, then the chosen terminology is confusing. What has been written here could not convince me that the terminology is not confusing.

[cezanne]

Maker madness is definitely nothing that implies entertainment, extreme joy etc in my part of the world which is part of the Western world.

I assumed that it was wordplay on the phrase March Madness, which refers to something that is indeed considered enjoyable entertainment to many here in the USA. But that's probably just my local bias showing.

 

Maybe you are right. I need to admit that I've never heard before about March Madness. Up to now nearly everything I associated with "madness" is something negative.

 

The containers shown in the photo below are not "special", at least not in the sense I think you intend. But one is ready to be used as a geocache container, and the other isn't. The local Little Shop of Horrors events are exactly the kind of event I thought of when I read the Maker Madness announcement. And preparing containers as shown in the photo below is the kind of work that happens at the LSOH events, just as much as the preparation of "special" containers.

 

I meant this photo and the displayed tools

http://blog.geocaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/MakerMadness_FBEventCover_vFINAL.png

Everything else what you write above just confirms my own impression. When I read the blog post, I immediately thought about preparing containers (no special sort). Since creative and innovative are terms that arise in the blog text as well, my second thought was that maybe also creators of creative puzzles could be included even if their tools are not hammers, nails etc.

The type of cache that did not fit at all in how I understand maker is the type of old school cache where the hike and the locations are the major component.

 

Cezanne

Edited March 5, 2014 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

What has been written here could not convince me that the terminology is not confusing.

 

I very much doubt that anyone could convince you of anything since you simply ignore anything that doesn't suit your agenda (whatever it is) and I suspect that people will simply stop wasting their time by trying.

 

It's clear that all you have to offer is negativity and criticism of a service you don't even pay for and that is in fact paid for by others. Such discussion is pointless and useless.

 

You appear to have completely ignored the opportunity to do something positive and productive by offering up your own ideas with an explanation of how/why they are better than those of others - but that doesn't surprise me.

 

What a waste of time.

[cezanne]

It's clear that all you have to offer is negativity and criticism of a service you don't even pay for and that is in fact paid for by others.

 

As I said I do not understand this thread as providing feedback to Groundspeak. Even if I were PM, I would not feel that I or someone else can demand from them to change their plans, to use a different terminology etc.

I'm neither criticizing Groundspeak for coming up with Maker events nor for calling them this way.

 

I simply said that I find the used terminology, announcement texts and marketing strategy highly confusing and irritating and explained why this is the case.

 

I never said that I have a problem with this (having a different opinion and being confused is not what I regard as a problem in this context) and I never demanded that Groundspeak changes their strategy. I know that many people cannot understand why someone continues to talk about something which does not cause a problem for that person, but every person is different. I never said that I a have problem with the existence of maker events and with the fact that most people will either enjoy them or ignore them regardless of how they are called. Many most probably will never think about the meaning of the names and announcement texts. I do.

 

You appear to have completely ignored the opportunity to do something positive and productive by offering up your own ideas with an explanation of how/why they are better than those of others - but that doesn't surprise me.

 

I replied to your question what language I would have used. I did not make any claims that what I would prefer will better for the majority. I cannot judge that. I never ever have the opinion that any of my ideas is better than another idea in general. The language I suggested would be less confusing for me and it would have less negative connotations for speakers of several other languages. Maybe it would be more boring for others and less appealing. I do not know. It's as simple as that. Do stop blaming me with things I never have said or demanded.

[+Ma & Pa]

I thought that I could read this thread and get ideas but all I got was a headache. It seems most of the discusssion has to do with the meaning of the word "maker" DUH

 

Anyhow, I was thinking of having an event where I could give ideas on how to solve my Micro Logic puzzles, but I didn't keep notes so i cant figure them out anymore.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Ma & Pa

[+Team Microdot]

I replied to your question what language I would have used.

 

You didn't offer a single useful suggestion - which is what I asked for, knowing full well that you'd probably offer nothing.

 

I did not make any claims that what I would prefer will better for the majority.

 

Quite - all you've done so far in this thread is complain about what others have done - which is a complete waste of everybody's time.

 

Have you actually anything positive or in any way useful to offer?

 

So far the evidence indicates that the answer to that question is a resounding NO.

[cezanne]

I thought that I could read this thread and get ideas but all I got was a headache. It seems most of the discusssion has to do with the meaning of the word "maker" DUH

 

People are not all the same.

It never would occur to me to think about organizing something before all the underlying notions are fully clear to me. That's my way of thinking and unclear notions are

what causes headache for me.

 

 

Anyhow, I was thinking of having an event where I could give ideas on how to solve my Micro Logic puzzles, but I didn't keep notes so i cant figure them out anymore.

 

If you feel that this matches with "Maker madness" and you eventually manage to overcome the current obstacle of missing notes, go ahead with your plan.

For me it does not fit the idea of what maker means to me, but I guess that many people could have fun at your event and if that's what you are aiming for, everything is simple

for you.

 

 

Cezanne

[+K13]

What is the topic of this thread? Wasn't it something about events to promote better quality geocaches?

[+thebruce0]

I hope that this doesn't this doesn't go further off topic, but a derivative of the "Maker" meme is something called a "Hackerspace". [etc]

Yep, I know all that. And that's why I said:

 

It's just part of the name with the implication of.. you know..making things. I would wager that the vast majority of the geocaching community (probably more than even know how to use a smartphone) have actually never heard of the "Maker" community. "Maker Madness" means just that - a fun event about making geocaches.

 

In the last post bruce0 wrote that it is indeed true that with maker those cachers are meant that make creative containers, but that the events can be used also for other purposes.

That's simply not satisfactory to me.

Oh well. *shrug* Methinks nothing will be satisfactory then, because you're making it out to be much bigger an issue than it needs to be.

 

I need to admit that I've never heard before about March Madness. Up to now nearly everything I associated with "madness" is something negative.

Ok, I can respect this. "Madness" is often used in english not with angry connotations when in the context of something that's seen as, or implied to be, fun - rather in that context extreme joy and excitement over something you're "crazy for". I find it hard to believe you haven't seen the word used in that light before, but it is possible. Nonetheless, it's a presumption on Groundspeak's part that translation of "madness" wouldn't be literal, and that people might think "why are we angry at people who make things?"

 

I simply said that I find the used terminology, announcement texts and marketing strategy highly confusing and irritating and explained why this is the case.

...over...and over...and over... and...

 

and now even responding to people who are asking for something positive, and once again repeating and questioning with criticism. Please, understand this.

 

What is the topic of this thread? Wasn't it something about events to promote better quality geocaches?

One might think.

Maybe a new thread should be started that's invisible to Cezanne

 

In my area, we have a group called BFL that goes night caching every week, and organizes an annual all-night geocaching event BFL Boot Camp - creating unbelievable extensive and entertaining multi and mystery caches all based on a theme. As soon this event theme was announced, the plans were in place to have a BFL-themed Maker event in the region. I'm greatly looking forward to that! (It's not published yet ) I mean, to see the sort of thought and work with technology that some of these people put into their ideas... tricks of the night caching trade and all that, from UV to IR lasers and vision, to field puzzle construction, prop designs... I'm sure not all of that will be covered, haha! But it'll be neat to see what is shared and discussed. Looking forward to it (if I can get a will attend in before it fills up!)

Edited March 5, 2014 by thebruce0

[+fishgeek]

OMG, this thread is turning into "Place your own Lab Cache"! (http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=319214&st=550) It had 576 posts, less than 10% of which actually talked about placing a lab cache. I read all of it, but I could not tell you what all of those other posts were about.

 

BACK ON TOPIC:

 

Making a Cache - it can mean what you want it to mean, and you can have an event which deals with any aspect of getting a cache out there where others can find it.

 

Madness - the dates (March 28-April 7) bear a striking similarity to the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament (March 18 - April 7).

[cezanne]

Wasn't it something about events to promote better quality geocaches?

 

Was it? I understood Groundspeak's blog differently, but maybe it's just me.

[cezanne]

I need to admit that I've never heard before about March Madness. Up to now nearly everything I associated with "madness" is something negative.

Ok, I can respect this. "Madness" is often used in english not with angry connotations when in the context of something that's seen as, or implied to be, fun - rather in that context extreme joy and excitement over something you're "crazy for". I find it hard to believe you haven't seen the word used in that light before, but it is possible. Nonetheless, it's a presumption on Groundspeak's part that translation of "madness" wouldn't be literal, and that people might think "why are we angry at people who make things?"

 

To clarify: With negative I did not mean angry - it could also be something unreasonable or very crazy for example. I should have written "is something negative for me".

In any case it is true however that madness in connection with extreme fun is new for me and that my knowledge about the American sports scene is almost equal to zero.

 

In any case, I agree with you that a further discussion will not bring any result and will not change the fact that though being a cache hider myself I cannot identify at all with the notion of a "mad maker".

That's not an issue whether I or someone else in my area organizes such an event.

 

Let me close my participation in this thread by stating that I find the role of cache hiders important and I'm happily contributing my share, but I never ever will feel that I'm a maker and even less a mad maker and also I would not want to refer to my caching friends who hide nice caches as mad makers. I learnt from this thread that this message will not be understood by the people who take part in this thread and always will be turned into something which never has been my intent. It never has been about critizing Groundspeak from my side and feel sorry that it got understood that way.

 

 

Cezanne

[+thebruce0]

No one's mad.

No one's crazy.

(don't quote me on that)

Not everyone makes stuff. Everyone who publishes a cache makes one. Anything from finding a suitable container, to finding a great location, to building any component of the finding experience.

Hopefully everyone who publishes a cache enjoys creating them.

Now, share that enjoyment!

 

So anyway, what other events have you seen pop up that look fun to attend? Any others focusing on other aspects of geocaches (like the night caching type I mentioned above)?

[+Ma & Pa]

No one's mad.

No one's crazy.

(don't quote me on that)

Not everyone makes stuff. Everyone who publishes a cache makes one. Anything from finding a suitable container, to finding a great location, to building any component of the finding experience.

Hopefully everyone who publishes a cache enjoys creating them.

Now, share that enjoyment!

 

So anyway, what other events have you seen pop up that look fun to attend? Any others focusing on other aspects of geocaches (like the night caching type I mentioned above)?

 

So does mean we are now back on topic?

[+funkymunkyzone]

So does mean we are now back on topic?

I sure hope so.

 

I'm looking at organising an event with a couple of different discussions, Q'n'A, etc - creative camouflage tips and tricks, creative placement tips, and creative experiences (walks, locations, etc). Just trying to sort out a suitable venue.

 

Good luck to everyone else organising one of these events!

[Mr.Yuck]

Well, since I've seen one of these things that has absolutely, positively nothing to do with maker madness published, this was quite the pointless 2 pages of internet bandwidth arguing about the definition of maker, wasn't it? Unless we'd like to spend 2 more pages talking about whether or not ones that have absolutely, positively nothing to do with maker madness should be published. <== Note the smiley, don't do that.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+SirDonB]

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June. Granted its a trackables event, but I feel that the maker event can apply here as well.

heh, I don't see why you can't still make the same themed event in June, there'd just be no souvenir associated with it

You could print souvenirs and give them to people!

 

Dont worry, I fully plan to still hold my event, but since the name of this says "maker," I could apply that to Travel Bugs as well as caches. And that is the themed event I am planning for in June... a trackables tips and tricks type event with an instructional period about trackables. I was hoping to apply the "maker madness" to it as well since part of the event will focus on "making" travel bugs and what makes a good travel bug.

 

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June.

Yeah, the next Little Shop of Horrors event is already scheduled for April 19, which is too late to qualify for this "Maker Event" promotion. But the organizer is considering a quick LSOH Lite event during the time period allowed by the promotion.

 

With me being out of work and recovering from surgery at the moment, creating anything during the promo period is out of the question right now. I will have other themed events, and maybe one will line up with an apporpriate promo, till then, its about the event and meeting fellow area cachers.

[nobby.nobbs]

This potentially good idea has been rushed and thrown out without enough thought or time.

 

I'm sure that there will be many good or even great events but I fear that many will be little more than an excuse for another smilie and a new "maker" souvenir. for instance one listed as a flash mob that as a throwaway comment says if you have any interesting caches bring them along. Hardly making a big thing about excellence and improving the overall quality.

 

Why are good ideas not developed properly? it would have been so easy to make the criteria for holding one a bit more stringent and allowed them to happen all over the summer. not let people publish one purely for the icon make them MAKE a good event.

 

It's a shame.

[+CdAGeoGeeks]

So then this is a temp thing again?? That kinda stinks... I was hoping to apply the maker event to my event I'm planning for in June. Granted its a trackables event, but I feel that the maker event can apply here as well.

 

I agree that you make a container or camo, not the spot which you pick to hide your cache.

 

We like the idea of a tracker maker themed event. That could be a lot of fun, and then you could start them out in a race or something if anyone wanted to. We like that a lot!