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Ma & Pa

TB HOTELS

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Hi, this a translate of the note that I post on the problematic TB hotel ( sorry if it's not 100% good transation )

 

Hello, good despite the change of text you've done lately, you should remove the restriction "take 1 TB OR 1 Geocoin" which restricts to 1 TB or geocoin those who might take several TB for them to travel.

 

Reviewers are currently revising all TB Hotel in Quebec and there are around 55, there are still only 2 that restrict the number of TB or Geocoins that we can take to make travel.

 

it must be remembered that a hotel that is empty is little frustrating but it has accomplished its mission to travel TB and geocoin, that all want the owner of TB and Geocoins.

 

thank you

Your reviewer CacheExpert

 

I hope this time have some good change for this TB hotel.

 

CacheExpert

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Why is an empty tb hotel more frustrating than any other empty cache? To me it seems that reviewers have more consideration with TB hotel owners than with other cache owners.

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Hi, this a translate of the note that I post on the problematic TB hotel ( sorry if it's not 100% good transation )

 

Hello, good despite the change of text you've done lately, you should remove the restriction "take 1 TB OR 1 Geocoin" which restricts to 1 TB or geocoin those who might take several TB for them to travel.

 

Reviewers are currently revising all TB Hotel in Quebec and there are around 55, there are still only 2 that restrict the number of TB or Geocoins that we can take to make travel.

 

it must be remembered that a hotel that is empty is little frustrating but it has accomplished its mission to travel TB and geocoin, that all want the owner of TB and Geocoins.

 

thank you

Your reviewer CacheExpert

 

I hope this time have some good change for this TB hotel.

 

CacheExpert

Thank you for the update.

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Hi, this a translate of the note that I post on the problematic TB hotel ( sorry if it's not 100% good transation )

 

Hello, good despite the change of text you've done lately, you should remove the restriction "take 1 TB OR 1 Geocoin" which restricts to 1 TB or geocoin those who might take several TB for them to travel.

 

Reviewers are currently revising all TB Hotel in Quebec and there are around 55, there are still only 2 that restrict the number of TB or Geocoins that we can take to make travel.

 

it must be remembered that a hotel that is empty is little frustrating but it has accomplished its mission to travel TB and geocoin, that all want the owner of TB and Geocoins.

 

thank you

Your reviewer CacheExpert

 

I hope this time have some good change for this TB hotel.

 

CacheExpert

Thank you for the update.

 

Yes the update and your efforts are appreciated

 

Merci beaucoup

 

PAul

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Sometimes I feel really stupid asking questions here, and this is no exception. What is the difference between a regular cache and a TB Hotel, other than the CO called one a hotel?

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Sometimes I feel really stupid asking questions here, and this is no exception. What is the difference between a regular cache and a TB Hotel, other than the CO called one a hotel?

 

No questions are stupid, you always learn things when you start a new activity. The more you ask, the more you will learn :D

 

A TB hotel is a regular cache but usually it's a larger container in which you can leave Geocoins and especially larger Travel Bugs that would not fit in a smaller container. A TB Hotel is usually located in a more remote area so it won't be found by a muggle making it a safer place to leave trackables. People often use ammo boxes since they are large and last a long time.

 

Don't be afraid to ask questions, it will make the game even more interesting ;)

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I just checked and the following has been written on the cache page of the TB Hotel mentionned earlier.

 

¨You can take or leave TBs OR GEOCOINs in here... Thanks.¨

 

This puts an end to this story ;)

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Well said, log them and drop them off today, or tomorrow at the latest unless you plan to take them on a long journey overseas etc. They are not collectables and not your property, sure take a picture if you wish. Sorry if I sound draconian but think about the owner. What if it was yours? Would you like it if it was sitting in someones car or backback for weeks on end? The fun and goal for the owner is watching it TRAVEL.

Curious, what did my post have to do with your statement?

 

Sorry my reply seemed to have gone into the wrong place, Am I Bad :(

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Well said, log them and drop them off today, or tomorrow at the latest unless you plan to take them on a long journey overseas etc. They are not collectables and not your property, sure take a picture if you wish. Sorry if I sound draconian but think about the owner. What if it was yours? Would you like it if it was sitting in someones car or backback for weeks on end? The fun and goal for the owner is watching it TRAVEL.

Today or tomorrow at the latest? Yikes.

 

There's quite a range between "today or tomorrow at the latest" and "sitting...for weeks on end." May I please have a week or two, at least? If I only cache on weekends, I may not find a cache large enough to hold a TB between Saturday evening and Sunday evening, and apparently I cannot take a TB on Sunday, since I won't be able to get rid of it until next Saturday at the earliest.

 

Sorry TriciaG

I did not mean today or tomorrow to be taken literally, I think most of us understand the idea of Travel Bugs moving along and not stored / lost / forgotten by those who find them.

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And by the same token there is no such thing as TB hotels. There is only traditional caches called TB hotels. Which are to be treated the same as a traditional geocache. Tb's found ... Move them on.

 

Often I go to a traditional cache and there are no TB's in it. Mostly in fact. I am not sad or disapointed. And I never plan a 1/2 hour trip to visit just one cache. Because I'm greedy and want more than just one. And no one else does either

I do however race out to get ftf but I can't whine if someone beats me to it. (I do grit my teeth though)

 

Events are a different animal. Not all events insist on a log in log out book. Usually it's a tray/bowl/box. Arrive - dump yours in. Most deposit them electronically prior to the event but here is the snag ....

 

... usually events are peddled on forums and FB as a way to meet and introduce yourself into your new world of being a geocacher. Several will be linked if anyone asks. It would be helpful also if when at those events people who are new are not encouraged to take TB's as I have seen ... "oooo did you know about. Tb's ... Ooo you just take a couple it's dead fun and a part of geocaching. There over there. You take them and put them in a cache and so on all details are online how to do it and you track them etc you simply must but I must dash as the Jelly Wellies have just turned up you must meet them." And then they send in the kids to grab a couple while they mingle. And I've seen that happen at every event. Or seen kids playing catch in the car park with a geocoin.

 

Plus neither events (because they can't be) or most TB hotels are premium members. This would help if hotels were. Plus they are usually positioned so that access is easy. This means that any noob can just fly in and empty the thing for them never to be seen again. Or obvious and therefore muggleable. Instead of. TB hotels they should just be called sitting ducks.

I bolded a claim above that is absolute nonsense. I can't speak for you personally, but I know I and many, many other cachers have travelled for far more than a 1/2 hour trip just in the hope of finding just one cache. :rolleyes:

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Sometimes I feel really stupid asking questions here, and this is no exception. What is the difference between a regular cache and a TB Hotel, other than the CO called one a hotel?

 

Around here, TB hotels are often hidden near airports or along major highways frequented by tourists so that TB's can be dropped or picked up by persons who are travelling. These caches have to be well hidden , usually in woods, and not in a place that would make muggles suspicious.

 

PAul

 

.

Edited by Ma & Pa

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Sometimes I feel really stupid asking questions here, and this is no exception. What is the difference between a regular cache and a TB Hotel, other than the CO called one a hotel?

 

Around here, TB hotels are often hidden near airports or along major highways frequented by tourists so that TB's can be dropped or picked up by persons who are travelling. These caches have to be well hidden , usually in woods, and not in a place that would make muggles suspicious.

 

PAul

 

.

 

This has nothing to do with trading rules. Any cache with the size of small or bigger can hold travel bugs.

Edited by Twentse Mug

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Sometimes I feel really stupid asking questions here, and this is no exception. What is the difference between a regular cache and a TB Hotel, other than the CO called one a hotel?

 

Around here, TB hotels are often hidden near airports or along major highways frequented by tourists so that TB's can be dropped or picked up by persons who are travelling. These caches have to be well hidden , usually in woods, and not in a place that would make muggles suspicious.

 

PAul

 

.

 

This has nothing to do with trading rules. Any cache with the size of small or bigger can hold travel bugs.

 

.

 

Of course. TB's can be placed in any cache large enough to hold it. We know this having grabbed and moved over 1400 trackables

 

A TB hotel is a regular cache. I was simply trying to indicate that the CO who calls his cache a TB hotel will often try to hide it in such a place that it will useful to people wanting to pick up a TB while travelling or before a trip. It should also be useful for people who want to drop trackables in a cache accessible to travellers.

 

PAul

 

.

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The reviewer wrote a note on the cache that they could no longer say that the cache was for exchange of TB's and geocoins.

 

Now the page reads as follows

RESTING PLACE FOR TRAVEL BUGs and GEOCOINS.

 

You can take ONE TB OR ONE GEOCOIN if you are sure to move it in the right direction… Thanks.

 

RESTING PLACE makes it sound like a retirement home or cemetery

 

That's too funny. Your reviewer will probably take a look in a few weeks and say, "nope".

If there's an explicit or implicit threat that your log will be deleted if you take two trackables, that's an ALR. The reviewer already gave the owner an opportunity to remove the restrictive language. That did NOT mean replacing it with different restrictive language. If the cache were in my review territory, at this point I would archive the listing.

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The reviewer wrote a note on the cache that they could no longer say that the cache was for exchange of TB's and geocoins.

 

Now the page reads as follows

RESTING PLACE FOR TRAVEL BUGs and GEOCOINS.

 

You can take ONE TB OR ONE GEOCOIN if you are sure to move it in the right direction… Thanks.

 

RESTING PLACE makes it sound like a retirement home or cemetery

 

That's too funny. Your reviewer will probably take a look in a few weeks and say, "nope".

If there's an explicit or implicit threat that your log will be deleted if you take two trackables, that's an ALR. The reviewer already gave the owner an opportunity to remove the restrictive language. That did NOT mean replacing it with different restrictive language. If the cache were in my review territory, at this point I would archive the listing.

 

It took a few attempts but the reviewer finally got the CO put acceptable language. The cache in question has now been archived , not because of the controversy but because of construction in the area.

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

Edited by The Peterson Finders

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

This is what Idealism does in the game. Someone needs to invite the CO, a relative n00b, by the number of finds, to a friendly event where they can learn (not through coercive means) how to be a better CO.

 

Honestly, recalling my first grandiose dreams (read: utter fantasy) of having my own Travel Bug Hotel, I was a relative n00b and had an air of idealism about what it would be and how it would function. As a grizzled veteran I now just place small (my definition: 800mL or larger), Regular (ammo box or larger) or Large (larger than a large ammo box, but smaller than Rhode Island) and if people want to drop they do; if they want to pick up, they do. Maybe some day I'll build a glorified doll house and stuff it in a redwood hollow, but at the rate people actually abandon Park & Grabs to actually hike, the resident bugs may require me to actually rescue them from time to time, to get them back in circulation.

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

Please keep at least 10 trackables in here at all times.

And please only put tracklables in! Thanks

 

Or does it mean No swag? :unsure:

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

This is what Idealism does in the game. Someone needs to invite the CO, a relative n00b, by the number of finds, to a friendly event where they can learn (not through coercive means) how to be a better CO.

 

 

In my experience, putting Travel Bug Prison language on cache pages was never a n00b thing. I've seen plenty a seasoned veteran do it, especially in the olden days, when reviewers basically didn't/couldn't do anything about it. These days they can reject TB Prisons as having an Additional Logging Requirement. Seasoned veterans can be wrong you know. :o Pretty much it's been one of the longest tenured topics of debate since I've been around.

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

This is what Idealism does in the game. Someone needs to invite the CO, a relative n00b, by the number of finds, to a friendly event where they can learn (not through coercive means) how to be a better CO.

 

 

In my experience, putting Travel Bug Prison language on cache pages was never a n00b thing. I've seen plenty a seasoned veteran do it, especially in the olden days, when reviewers basically didn't/couldn't do anything about it. These days they can reject TB Prisons as having an Additional Logging Requirement. Seasoned veterans can be wrong you know. :o Pretty much it's been one of the longest tenured topics of debate since I've been around.

 

So even these seasoned (preferably with salt, pepper and a dash of Sriracha) could stand to attend an event where they could learn what social norms are, at least for the immediate region.

 

I find the concept of exerting rules on trackables, which belong to others, most distasteful.

Edited by DragonsWest

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

Please keep at least 10 trackables in here at all times.

And please only put tracklables in! Thanks

 

Or does it mean No swag? :unsure:

 

I bet that both were the original intent/language of the CO... "A No SWAG, TB ONLY Depository"... bugs only go in, and they NEVER come out!

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

This is what Idealism does in the game. Someone needs to invite the CO, a relative n00b, by the number of finds, to a friendly event where they can learn (not through coercive means) how to be a better CO.

 

 

In my experience, putting Travel Bug Prison language on cache pages was never a n00b thing. I've seen plenty a seasoned veteran do it, especially in the olden days, when reviewers basically didn't/couldn't do anything about it. These days they can reject TB Prisons as having an Additional Logging Requirement. Seasoned veterans can be wrong you know. :o Pretty much it's been one of the longest tenured topics of debate since I've been around.

 

So even these seasoned (preferably with salt, pepper and a dash of Sriracha) could stand to attend an event where they could learn what social norms are, at least for the immediate region.

 

I find the concept of exerting rules on trackables, which belong to others, most distasteful.

 

I don't know man, I don't want to give any links to any TB Hotels, but I've seen "seasoned veterans" who have been Geocaching for 10+ years, and attended dozens of events who think you should trade for TB's. As a matter of fact, I saw a log for a new local cache to me within the past few weeks where just such a person said they didn't take any TB's because they didn't have any to trade, and they thought it was rude when people do that. Seriously, I saw it. These people are absolutely 100% wrong in their thinking, by the way. :lol: And I've felt like that since I saw my first ever TB prison language, most likely in 2003 or 2004 at the latest.

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There's no way of knowing how long a physical cache will go between finders.

There's no way of knowing for sure going forward, but one can look at the log in order to see how often the cache tends to be visited.

 

You can, but to borrow the phrase from financial services "past performance is no guarantee of future performance".

 

If you leave a bug behind and the cache is muggled within a day the bug is lost, and you never know when the cache that hasn't been found in a year suddenly draws attention. I remember using one puzzle cache to qualify for a resuscitator challenge (i.e. I found it after nobody had found it for over a year) and then within a month another three people had found it. So I really wouldn't worry about whether the next visitor is hours or months away.

 

Personally I probably wouldn't take quite so many bugs in one hit but if we're going to argue it's anything to do with etiquette where do we draw the line? What if there are two bugs and you take both? Three bugs? Five bugs? Ten bugs?

First, let's be clear that the etiquette is directed at other seekers and the TB's owner, not at the CO. It's nice of the CO to maintain such a nice cache, but he has no control over the TBs in it beyond making the cache attractive to them.

 

Sure, as one moderator already said the idea of travel bugs is to travel rather than languish in a prison because a cache owner felt like imposing a unjustified rule. Personally I've never regarded trackables as anything like trade items, I've been known to take all three trackables from a cache and not leave any and likewise I've been known to gather trackables from a foreign trip and then scatter them freely on my return.

 

But to answer the question, the number of TBs is just one of many criteria one can consider. I always go back to the broad question: am I likely to move every TB I take as fast and as well as anyone that might come after me? It's not like I sit down and do all the math, but conceptually that means I consider how many TBs are there, how frequently the cache is visited, and how many TBs I think I can move in the next few days.

 

When I was caching more I'd leave a bug behind if it had a mission statement attached and I couldn't help it. If it didn't have a mission statement attached then I'd take it and figure what to do with it once I logged it. On several occasions I picked up a bug in the US with a mission to travel around the US, and when I contacted the owner to ask if they'd rather I dropped it in another state or took it to England it was pretty much a universal response to scratch the mission and ask me to take it to England. I remember one case in particular where the trackable was being watched closely by the owner's daughter who was under 10 (I forget her exact age), and he said how she would love to see it go abroad.

 

Missions are all well and good but if they aren't attached to the TB people only find out about the mission once they've taken the thing home and logged it, by which time it's too late to conclude that they can't help.

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Have a look at this prison :blink:JP's Trackable Prison.

 

First time i looked at it a couple months ago the "request" for TB's left in the cache was three, then it moved to six, and now the CO has kicked it up to ten. I was really wanting to do a raid on it so i could set them all free last friday but we ended up heading south from Salt Lake City, instead of going north like i planned. Be down that way again for school shopping, see if i can make it over there then.

 

Please keep at least 10 trackables in here at all times.

And please only put tracklables in! Thanks

 

Or does it mean No swag? :unsure:

 

I bet that both were the original intent/language of the CO... "A No SWAG, TB ONLY Depository"... bugs only go in, and they NEVER come out!

Don't think so - because otherwise the "minimum of 10" language would be unnecessary. However, either way it's a k00ky setup.

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I have a TB Hotel located on a local Airport that has had over 1000 trackables pass through it in just over 3 years.

It is often visited by cachers for the sole purpose of picking up and/or dropping trackables. (Almost 400 finds, but also almost 200 other notes.)

Inventory can be as high as 30 or so, but usually is about 5 - 10 at a time, so they tend to not stay for an unreasonably long time.

(I had one cacher travel 3 hrs (one way) just to pick up 25 at once and drop them all into their own event the next day !!)

Of these 1000, about 80 have not been logged out properly and after 1 month I mark them as 'missing'.

Of these 80, only about 20 have not eventually shown up somewhere. (Yes, I do keep track of them.)

I find that I need to visit the cache at least once a month and physically check the inventory to keep it accurate.

This is a locked cache in plain site on airport property, so I don't think that any of them have been taken by muggles.

It seems that there are a few cachers around here that don't log anything (caches or TBs) but are still taking and moving Travellers.

Overall, this has been a very 'interesting' cache to own.

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Bottom line is they are "Travel Bugs". Not "Sit In A Cache Until Another OneTakes My Place Bugs".

You do not have to leave one to take one and the CO should not have restrictions on a hotel. A private email to the reviewer, or Groundspeak, pointing out these kinds of restrictions on cache pages can take care of it. Move those bugs!

 

What can I do when reviewers in my country (Netherlands) ignore this and I have travelbugs in tb prisons?

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Bottom line is they are "Travel Bugs". Not "Sit In A Cache Until Another OneTakes My Place Bugs".

You do not have to leave one to take one and the CO should not have restrictions on a hotel. A private email to the reviewer, or Groundspeak, pointing out these kinds of restrictions on cache pages can take care of it. Move those bugs!

 

What can I do when reviewers in my country (Netherlands) ignore this and I have travelbugs in tb prisons?

 

For one thing, reviewers are not Travel Bug police. They can't do anything about bugs already in caches. It would be a full time job for 50+ people!

They can ask a CO to remove any wording from the cache page that requires a one for one trade. They can't keep policing pages that are edited after approval, but a private message to the reviewer might help. Nicely worded, don't hound them, they are busy and they are volunteers.

What you can do is ask the community to rescue your TBs by posting a note on the TB page, the cache page, and in your regional forums, or local cache group Facebook page.

When you release a TB, it's like sending a message in a bottle. You have no control over what happens to it once released. Maybe it will float along peacefully, maybe it will be caught in a storm, maybe it will be tossed up onto a rock forever. The fun is in watching what happens.

If your trackable hasn't moved in a long time, post a note to the cache page asking the next dinner to please confirm if it's there or not. You can edit the post to change the date, if it drops of the page. Check out the pinned thread at the to of this Forum, on what we should know about TBs.

Good luck!

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Bottom line is they are "Travel Bugs". Not "Sit In A Cache Until Another OneTakes My Place Bugs".

You do not have to leave one to take one and the CO should not have restrictions on a hotel. A private email to the reviewer, or Groundspeak, pointing out these kinds of restrictions on cache pages can take care of it. Move those bugs!

 

What can I do when reviewers in my country (Netherlands) ignore this and I have travelbugs in tb prisons?

 

For one thing, reviewers are not Travel Bug police. They can't do anything about bugs already in caches. It would be a full time job for 50+ people!

They can ask a CO to remove any wording from the cache page that requires a one for one trade. They can't keep policing pages that are edited after approval, but a private message to the reviewer might help. Nicely worded, don't hound them, they are busy and they are volunteers.

What you can do is ask the community to rescue your TBs by posting a note on the TB page, the cache page, and in your regional forums, or local cache group Facebook page.

When you release a TB, it's like sending a message in a bottle. You have no control over what happens to it once released. Maybe it will float along peacefully, maybe it will be caught in a storm, maybe it will be tossed up onto a rock forever. The fun is in watching what happens.

If your trackable hasn't moved in a long time, post a note to the cache page asking the next dinner to please confirm if it's there or not. You can edit the post to change the date, if it drops of the page. Check out the pinned thread at the to of this Forum, on what we should know about TBs.

Good luck!

 

So I sent an e-email and I got answers back from a Netherlands reviewer.

 

1. A demand for travel bugs is not seen as a logging requirement;

2. It is allowed (in the Netherlands) to have requirements about the inventory of a cache. That is: inventory in a generic way, no exception for travel bugs or different from goodies;

3. If reviewers in other countries see it differently it is up to them. This reviewer does not know about guidelins so in the Netherlands the reviewers have their own rules (about this).

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Bottom line is they are "Travel Bugs". Not "Sit In A Cache Until Another OneTakes My Place Bugs".

You do not have to leave one to take one and the CO should not have restrictions on a hotel. A private email to the reviewer, or Groundspeak, pointing out these kinds of restrictions on cache pages can take care of it. Move those bugs!

 

What can I do when reviewers in my country (Netherlands) ignore this and I have travelbugs in tb prisons?

 

For one thing, reviewers are not Travel Bug police. They can't do anything about bugs already in caches. It would be a full time job for 50+ people!

They can ask a CO to remove any wording from the cache page that requires a one for one trade. They can't keep policing pages that are edited after approval, but a private message to the reviewer might help. Nicely worded, don't hound them, they are busy and they are volunteers.

What you can do is ask the community to rescue your TBs by posting a note on the TB page, the cache page, and in your regional forums, or local cache group Facebook page.

When you release a TB, it's like sending a message in a bottle. You have no control over what happens to it once released. Maybe it will float along peacefully, maybe it will be caught in a storm, maybe it will be tossed up onto a rock forever. The fun is in watching what happens.

If your trackable hasn't moved in a long time, post a note to the cache page asking the next dinner to please confirm if it's there or not. You can edit the post to change the date, if it drops of the page. Check out the pinned thread at the to of this Forum, on what we should know about TBs.

Good luck!

 

So I sent an e-email and I got answers back from a Netherlands reviewer.

 

1. A demand for travel bugs is not seen as a logging requirement;

2. It is allowed (in the Netherlands) to have requirements about the inventory of a cache. That is: inventory in a generic way, no exception for travel bugs or different from goodies;

3. If reviewers in other countries see it differently it is up to them. This reviewer does not know about guidelins so in the Netherlands the reviewers have their own rules (about this).

 

All I can tell you is that differences in the reviewing process between North America and Europe have been brought up in the past, and this is just another example. I can also tell you that my reviewer in the Northeastern U.S. would NEVER publish a travel bug prison. They can come here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd say they'd use the "no Additional Loggging requirements clause" as justification.

 

Maybe your Dutch reviewer just needs to spend a little time in their top secret reviewer only sub-forum here? :P

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Bottom line is they are "Travel Bugs". Not "Sit In A Cache Until Another OneTakes My Place Bugs".

You do not have to leave one to take one and the CO should not have restrictions on a hotel. A private email to the reviewer, or Groundspeak, pointing out these kinds of restrictions on cache pages can take care of it. Move those bugs!

 

What can I do when reviewers in my country (Netherlands) ignore this and I have travelbugs in tb prisons?

 

For one thing, reviewers are not Travel Bug police. They can't do anything about bugs already in caches. It would be a full time job for 50+ people!

They can ask a CO to remove any wording from the cache page that requires a one for one trade. They can't keep policing pages that are edited after approval, but a private message to the reviewer might help. Nicely worded, don't hound them, they are busy and they are volunteers.

What you can do is ask the community to rescue your TBs by posting a note on the TB page, the cache page, and in your regional forums, or local cache group Facebook page.

When you release a TB, it's like sending a message in a bottle. You have no control over what happens to it once released. Maybe it will float along peacefully, maybe it will be caught in a storm, maybe it will be tossed up onto a rock forever. The fun is in watching what happens.

If your trackable hasn't moved in a long time, post a note to the cache page asking the next dinner to please confirm if it's there or not. You can edit the post to change the date, if it drops of the page. Check out the pinned thread at the to of this Forum, on what we should know about TBs.

Good luck!

 

So I sent an e-email and I got answers back from a Netherlands reviewer.

 

1. A demand for travel bugs is not seen as a logging requirement;

2. It is allowed (in the Netherlands) to have requirements about the inventory of a cache. That is: inventory in a generic way, no exception for travel bugs or different from goodies;

3. If reviewers in other countries see it differently it is up to them. This reviewer does not know about guidelins so in the Netherlands the reviewers have their own rules (about this).

 

All I can tell you is that differences in the reviewing process between North America and Europe have been brought up in the past, and this is just another example. I can also tell you that my reviewer in the Northeastern U.S. would NEVER publish a travel bug prison. They can come here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd say they'd use the "no Additional Loggging requirements clause" as justification.

 

Maybe your Dutch reviewer just needs to spend a little time in their top secret reviewer only sub-forum here? :P

 

I hate TB prisons and even have a bookmark of them in my general area.

 

Having said this, simply putting the "take 1, leave 1" does not really constitute an ALR unless the CO adds something to the affect "or your logs will be deleted" or actually deletes someones log for it. Otherwise, they should be viewed as a "suggestion", as mis-guided as it is, and either followed or ignored as I do.

 

Based on this, I guess I would take issue with a reviewer not publishing based on a "suggestion" which are still OK within the guidelines.

Edited by baloo&bd

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I won't quote, as it would be too long. I am not a reviewer, nor will I ever be, but I'm 99.9% sure my reviewer would not publish a TB prison. Perhaps an American reviewer, mine or otherwise, would like to comment whether or not they can be rejected with the trading rules being considered an ALR?

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This listing http://coord.info/GC4TZNX is allowed in the Netherlands. How about other countries?

 

There's a better chance of me getting a Vacation Cache published in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan that has an ALR of "you must post a picture of yourself standing on your head next to the cache, or your log will be deleted" than there is that my reviewer would publish that TB prison with "1 TB in = 1 TB out" text in an H2 font.

 

That wasn't really serious though. In all seriousness, it's just a different caching culture in Europe than it is in North America. Giga events (we're clueless over here, and never asked for them). Climbing the metal framework of a Shopping Mall sign in Austria. Rapelling off an observation tower in Germany. Just a few examples. :)

Edited by Mr.Yuck

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On 3/2/2014 at 2:14 PM, CacheExpert said:

it must be remembered that a hotel that is empty is little frustrating but it has accomplished its mission to travel TB and geocoin, that all want the owner of TB and Geocoins.

 

I know this is an old thread but I'm looking for info on TB Hotels. Our TB hotel just had its last TB taken and now for the first time, it's empty.  But I'm glad to read the above post because it did have many TBs. It would be nice though if cachers, when taking a TB, would replace it with another one. I know that isn't possible and that is fine but I do see it happening at times. One time someone took 2 TBs from our hotel but also left two in their place. Off topic. There is a real cool TB Hotel that we found in a guardrail in a huge busy parking lot. They made a large metal tube cache that slides in the guardrail. It has a screw on cap that blends in with the rail opening. Unfortunately many TBs have gone missing. 

rock3.jpg

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3 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I know this is an old thread but I'm looking for info on TB Hotels. Our TB hotel just had its last TB taken and now for the first time, it's empty.  But I'm glad to read the above post because it did have many TBs. It would be nice though if cachers, when taking a TB, would replace it with another one. I know that isn't possible and that is fine but I do see it happening at times. One time someone took 2 TBs from our hotel but also left two in their place.

If you want a cache to be considered a TB hotel, then you should feel responsible for stocking it with TBs. Yes, it's nice when it gets incoming traffic, too, but you're the one responsible for the hotel, so don't expect other people to keep it stocked with TBs for you. Consider, for example, regularly releasing TBs there when you think it needs more. You like TBs or you wouldn't like the idea of a TB hotel, so I'll bet you wouldn't mind an excuse to release more of them.

 

You don't have to do that, obviously, but if you like TBs in your cache, the simple solution is for you to put them there.

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We had a hoarder around here for some time.   Saw they were grabbing trackables , but not releasing any.

They attended an event, we were there, and asked about it. 

Turns out this person wanted to create a "tb hotel", and they were going to be using all the trackables they've hoarded for months to stock it.

They got their cache published, and the first two people couldn't find it.   Muggled cache, the "CO" didn't know to ask for permission either.

A couple dozen of someone else's property had to be marked missing because this person wanted to stock their "tb hotel".  It's all about "me"... 

I avoid them (unless they have that ALR for trading/swaps).

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I have a TB hotel beside a footpath in a Little Free Library and it has a lock on it. The code is given in the hint. I know a geocacher could still abuse this, but hopefully this will keep the TBs safe from muggles. So far, so good.

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The first three posts in this topic pretty much sums it up.

Ma & Pa did a great job as jail breakers. They're still going strong but we don't see them on these pages anymore. I enjoyed reading their contributions.

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I don't know how to do multiple quotes so you'll have to go back to read them. Sorry.

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Here you go, the first three posts in this thread:

 

On 2/25/2014 at 6:09 AM, Ma & Pa said:

I was wondering if there are guidelines covering restrictions about trading TB's.

 

I know there have been many discussions in the forums on this topic and that most seem to feel that restrictions turn the TB hotels into TB Prisons.

 

I agree with the idea that the Cache Owner cannot have trading rules. On our many trips, we grab all the TB's that we find and try to help them with their goal.

 

Last year I had an email discussion with a Cache Owner who did not appreciate our emptying his cache. I could not find any rules or guidelines on the subject. Are there any?

 

PAul

On 2/25/2014 at 6:16 AM, palmetto said:

Trackable Etiquette, a Help Center article, while it doesn't speak to this directly, this statement is relevant, "The owners want them to travel and not to stay too long in one geocacher's hands."

Substitute, "stay too long in one cache" and you're closing in on what's wrong with TB Prisons.

 

I've not used in this in a long time, but here's my TB Prison reviewer note:

Hi

 

I'm sorry, I cannot publish this as written. The geocoins and travel bugs are not yours; you did not pay for them or their tracking and cannot impose restrictions upon their movement. Travel bugs and coins are not trade items.

 

Please remove the "leave one to take one" language from the cache page.....

On 2/25/2014 at 6:22 AM, Clan Riffster said:

Groundspeak will tell you that travel bugs and coins are meant to travel. One school of thought is that a TB hotel with restrictions is a TB prison. I'm likely in this camp. When I deal with TBs in caches, I never worry about swapping them out. If I have one to trade, I will. If I don't, that won't stop me from taking a bug. I probably wouldn't empty out a cache of a bunch of TBs, as I recognize that they are becoming somewhate rare, and I wouldn't want to deprive others of the opportunity to move some. For me, cleaning out a bunch of TBs would feel selfish. I suppose, one exception would be if I found a bunch in a cache which doesn't get visited very often. Faced with that, I might take them all just to put them back into circulation.

 

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5 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

It would be nice though if cachers, when taking a TB, would replace it with another one.

 

Not at all. Trackables only belong to its owner and the main goal is to travel. Other cachers should help them to achieve this goal by taking it from geocaches and bringing it to new ones. Waiting in a cache is not the main goal of any trackable.

You can take as many as you like out of a cache and you can leave as many as you like in a cache. And the one thing has nothing to do with the other thing and it has nothing to do with trade.

 

If someone wants to leave a TB in a cache, let's say your hotel, that is fine. But on the other hands cachers may (should?) take any trackable out of any cache to help it travel along. So in fact any trackable that lands in your hotel should be taken as quickly as possible!

 

Best wishes

Jochen

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4 minutes ago, niraD said:

Here you go, the first three posts in this thread:

 

 

Thanks for that.

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2 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

It would be nice though if cachers, when taking a TB, would replace it with another one.

The TBs are meant to travel, so this shouldn't be expected. I have a TB hotel and I don't expect people to swap TBs. They are there to be picked up and moved on. If I want TBs in my hotel it's up to me as the TB hotel owner to supply it, not other people.

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2 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:
5 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

It would be nice though if cachers, when taking a TB, would replace it with another one.

The TBs are meant to travel, so this shouldn't be expected. I have a TB hotel and I don't expect people to swap TBs. They are there to be picked up and moved on. If I want TBs in my hotel it's up to me as the TB hotel owner to supply it, not other people.


I don’t see any expectation here.  Of course a TB is meant to travel, but it has to be dropped off somewhere.  Isn’t H&S just saying it would be nice if it was dropped off at their TB hotel?

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Just now, IceColdUK said:


I don’t see any expectation here.  Of course a TB is meant to travel, but it has to be dropped off somewhere.  Isn’t H&S just saying it would be nice if it was dropped off at their TB hotel?

They are saying that they would like TBs swapped. " replace it with another one "

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4 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

They are saying that they would like TBs swapped. " replace it with another one "


I’d like a Ferrari.  I don’t expect to get one. 😉

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