Whyizzitso?

3.4k · February 19, 2014

I'm utterly flummoxed. I've been catching up cache maintenance and keep seeing this trend - A clever, well hidden hide lasts a while and then appears to be muggled. Meanwhile, some ordinary cache in a fairly public place seems to go on and on and on without any trouble.

Is this the natural way of things, like some permutation of Murphy's Law?

3.6k · February 19, 2014

Maybe the harder cache has seekers wandering around and around arousing suspicion, or creating a "cacher's trail", that attracts muggles' eyes. Or it's just so danged good the cache gets stolen to be implemented elsewhere!!

3.8k · February 19, 2014

It's one of those things. The more "urban" my hides are, the less maintenance I have to do. I've got a cache out there for 2 years or more between the mall parking lot and the 4 lane roadway. I don't think it's ever gotten muggled. I have a non camo'd pail that sat for a year and a half no problem. Replace it with a special painted ammo can and it's gone in 5 months. My large ammo can chained to a tree? Gone. My screw-top glad container(Before I knew not to use them)-two years, buried in the snow, never needed maintenance, perfectly dry.

I blame it on the yellow bellied spider. It's about the size of your hand, and eats pine needles and geocaches.

2.2k · February 19, 2014

I've stolen this topic from the Geocoin Forums and placed it here. Hopefully this doesn't add further to the OP's confusion around things going missing.

February 19, 2014

Could be experimental and more prone to failure.

3.4k · February 19, 2014

A seeming related phenomena is when you place a cache in a trashy area and people take the cache, but leave all the debris.

Considering the contents of many caches I've found, it's got to be hard to tell the difference.

3.7k · February 20, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Another thing I've found is that caches that are cleverly disguised as garbage - for example, old peanut butter jars with no camo - last forever, even if they're sitting in plain view.

February 20, 2014

We dont seem to have this problem in my area, or at least as far as I can tell... what ever cache gets put out there gets left in place. Once in a while, one will be muggled, but in general caches live a long happy life around my part of the world.

February 20, 2014

If a muggle stumbles upon a clever container, an ammo can, a pelican box, etc., it's gone. If the same muggle stumbles upon a poorly camoed peanut butter jar, it's much more likely to be safe. Although...I had one absolutely hideously looking lock & lock disappear (glued on fake foliage until it was one seriously ugly foliage ball). I can't imagine why anyone wanted that. (Maybe an animal thought it made good chewing.)

I have a container that I put many hours into sitting on top of my fridge currently. I can't quite bear to part with him yet, knowing that although he'll probably survive many geocachers, he won't survive the first muggle who spots him. I call him geo-art for now.

3.3k · February 20, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Another thing I've found is that caches that are cleverly disguised as garbage - for example, old peanut butter jars with no camo - last forever, even if they're sitting in plain view.

Not hard to believe at all. When I've explained geocaching to people they pick up on the "find the box" element and assume you take it away and hide it somewhere else.

If smartphone apps don't make it clear that after finding it the idea is to sign it and put it back where you found it, it shouldn't be a surprise people don't automatically know what to do. The term "rehide" doesn't really do the job because if someone does think the idea is to move the cache elsewhere then "rehide" would just be taken to mean "go and hide it somewhere else".

Edited February 20, 2014 by team tisri

February 20, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Reminds me of a funny story heard at a recent event: A fellow geocacher told a muggle friend about his tens of thousands of finds. The muggle asked "Where do you keep them all?"

2.2k · February 20, 2014

Maybe the harder cache has seekers wandering around and around arousing suspicion, or creating a "cacher's trail", that attracts muggles' eyes. Or it's just so danged good the cache gets stolen to be implemented elsewhere!!

This was my first thought too -- clever hides often take longer to find which increases the odds of a muggle seeing the hunt taking place and getting curious. With a mundane hide the seekers spend less time at ground zero creating less opportunity for someone to get suspicious.

3.4k · February 21, 2014

Another thing I've found is that caches that are cleverly disguised as garbage - for example, old peanut butter jars with no camo - last forever, even if they're sitting in plain view.

I've figured some of these are protected by an SEP Field Generator. :rolleyes:

3.4k · February 21, 2014

dupe

Edited February 21, 2014 by DragonsWest

3.4k · February 21, 2014

dupe

Edited February 21, 2014 by DragonsWest

February 21, 2014

I think part of it is the container.

I've got two 50 cal ammo cans sitting behind me.

One is supposed to be used as the final for a night multi in an area well off the beaten path, but I suspect it will disappear, even though it will be secured with aviation cable.

I've had a scuba bison tube go missing, but the match container that replaced it has been in play for over a year.

2.3k · February 21, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Reminds me of a funny story heard at a recent event: A fellow geocacher told a muggle friend about his tens of thousands of finds. The muggle asked "Where do you keep them all?"

I presume you are NOT going to tell us where you keep them all either ...

Granted, there are no absolute requirements for new cachers when they register through regular internet, but the apps for smartphones seem to have created the perfect environment for the ADHD cachers ... get a caching name ID, never authenticate your contact info, go find something, take something, leave nothing, move on to a new app-hobby. ... :blink:

3.7k · February 21, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Reminds me of a funny story heard at a recent event: A fellow geocacher told a muggle friend about his tens of thousands of finds. The muggle asked "Where do you keep them all?"

I presume you are NOT going to tell us where you keep them all either ...

Granted, there are no absolute requirements for new cachers when they register through regular internet, but the apps for smartphones seem to have created the perfect environment for the ADHD cachers ... get a caching name ID, never authenticate your contact info, go find something, take something, leave nothing, move on to a new app-hobby. ...

Yep, that's why most of my caches are premium member now. I've introduced lots of people to caching and seen what goes on. I've had more than 1 person ask if you should take the cache. 1 person was going to rehide the cache 10 meters away in a 'better' spot until I stopped them. 90% don't rehide the cache properly. About 50% don't remember to bring swag, even with me to guide and remind them, some people just take stuff and don't put anything in. Guess that's why I haven't take groups out in a while.... <_<

Back to the OP's original topic, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear of a newbie finding an interesting container and then taking it home to show their friends and never bringing it back. Peanut butter jar, meh, but an interestingly camo'd container or an ammo can, that's something you don't find every day.

February 21, 2014

If a muggle comes accross a really cool item they might think "I want that" but if they find a gladware container with a log sheet inside they will just walk on.

2.3k · February 22, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Reminds me of a funny story heard at a recent event: A fellow geocacher told a muggle friend about his tens of thousands of finds. The muggle asked "Where do you keep them all?"

I presume you are NOT going to tell us where you keep them all either ...

Granted, there are no absolute requirements for new cachers when they register through regular internet, but the apps for smartphones seem to have created the perfect environment for the ADHD cachers ... get a caching name ID, never authenticate your contact info, go find something, take something, leave nothing, move on to a new app-hobby. ...

Yep, that's why most of my caches are premium member now. I've introduced lots of people to caching and seen what goes on. I've had more than 1 person ask if you should take the cache. 1 person was going to rehide the cache 10 meters away in a 'better' spot until I stopped them. 90% don't rehide the cache properly. About 50% don't remember to bring swag, even with me to guide and remind them, some people just take stuff and don't put anything in. Guess that's why I haven't take groups out in a while....

Back to the OP's original topic, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear of a newbie finding an interesting container and then taking it home to show their friends and never bringing it back. Peanut butter jar, meh, but an interestingly camo'd container or an ammo can, that's something you don't find every day.

I have over 200 hides, and they are ALL premium caches. I can't even fathom the issues I might be facing if they were just 'member' caches.

Sometimes ... it pays to pay ...

3.4k · February 22, 2014

Believe it or not, but some smartphone cachers think you are supposed to take the cache. Perhaps someone in your area's got a collection going?

Reminds me of a funny story heard at a recent event: A fellow geocacher told a muggle friend about his tens of thousands of finds. The muggle asked "Where do you keep them all?"

I presume you are NOT going to tell us where you keep them all either ...

Granted, there are no absolute requirements for new cachers when they register through regular internet, but the apps for smartphones seem to have created the perfect environment for the ADHD cachers ... get a caching name ID, never authenticate your contact info, go find something, take something, leave nothing, move on to a new app-hobby. ...

Yep, that's why most of my caches are premium member now. I've introduced lots of people to caching and seen what goes on. I've had more than 1 person ask if you should take the cache. 1 person was going to rehide the cache 10 meters away in a 'better' spot until I stopped them. 90% don't rehide the cache properly. About 50% don't remember to bring swag, even with me to guide and remind them, some people just take stuff and don't put anything in. Guess that's why I haven't take groups out in a while....

Back to the OP's original topic, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear of a newbie finding an interesting container and then taking it home to show their friends and never bringing it back. Peanut butter jar, meh, but an interestingly camo'd container or an ammo can, that's something you don't find every day.

I have over 200 hides, and they are ALL premium caches. I can't even fathom the issues I might be facing if they were just 'member' caches.

Sometimes ... it pays to pay ...

I have over 200 hides and not one single premium. I like people to find them.

1.7k · February 22, 2014

I have over 200 hides and not one single premium. I like people to find them.

I may not have as many as you do, but I like people to find mine as well thus they are premium so they last longer.

3.3k · February 22, 2014

I have over 200 hides and not one single premium. I like people to find them.

I may not have as many as you do, but I like people to find mine as well thus they are premium so they last longer.

For my area I am going to have to claim "some exclamation filled diatribe that disputes the current thought process" regarding premium member only caches lasting longer since none of my caches are premium member only and they are all doing fine. Three are ammo cans and the others are good quality non-ammo cans. I try to go with the philosophy that someone will need to be at least a little bit adventurous to find my hides. The only hide I had to archive since 2006 was a highly cammoed container that was pretty hard to find. Some local decided he/she didn't like the cache and kept trashing it and leaving the bits and pieces laying about. I did have to archive two ammo can hides because the undeveloped land got posted with no trespassing signs.

So as a premium member since I joined, I say I have no evidence to support the claim that PMO caches last longer. Well placed and well hidden caches last longer.

3.7k · February 22, 2014

I have over 200 hides and not one single premium. I like people to find them.

I may not have as many as you do, but I like people to find mine as well thus they are premium so they last longer.

B I N G O! One of my caches which I put alot of work into was last found by a newbie before it went missing. After emailing her, it was pretty clear that they did not understand the importance of rehiding the cache properly. I simply do not have time for that.

Edited February 22, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

1.4k · February 22, 2014

What I find crazy is we put a lot of work into our containers to keep them dry inside. Then they end up getting wet or something. Then I will find a crappy container out for years and all is dry and well in a harsh environment?

15.3k · February 22, 2014

What I find crazy is we put a lot of work into our containers to keep them dry inside. Then they end up getting wet or something. Then I will find a crappy container out for years and all is dry and well in a harsh environment?

If a container has a good waterproof seal and moisture gets inside, then it stays moist inside.

If a container isn't sealed and moisture gets inside, then it can dry out during dry weather (or if located in a sheltered location).

1.9k · February 23, 2014

I have over 200 hides and not one single premium. I like people to find them.

I may not have as many as you do, but I like people to find mine as well thus they are premium so they last longer.

For my area I am going to have to claim "some exclamation filled diatribe that disputes the current thought process" regarding premium member only caches lasting longer since none of my caches are premium member only and they are all doing fine. Three are ammo cans and the others are good quality non-ammo cans. I try to go with the philosophy that someone will need to be at least a little bit adventurous to find my hides. The only hide I had to archive since 2006 was a highly cammoed container that was pretty hard to find. Some local decided he/she didn't like the cache and kept trashing it and leaving the bits and pieces laying about. I did have to archive two ammo can hides because the undeveloped land got posted with no trespassing signs.

So as a premium member since I joined, I say I have no evidence to support the claim that PMO caches last longer. Well placed and well hidden caches last longer.

I'm thinking this must be an issue that's unique to other areas, because I agree with you. My only PMO caches are my caches at Cougar Mountain, and that's because there was a cache troll issue there, a few years ago. I have a few unique hides with unique containers that are more than a year old, and have only had issues with one of them, and that was because it keeps suffering damage due to its construction. One is particularly expensive to build, and I've had no issues with the final. I also have a number of ammo can hides and only one has disappeared.

3.7k · February 23, 2014

Well placed and well hidden caches last longer.

I agree that if you hide an ammo can several kilometers up a trail, there's probably no need for it to be premium member.

However, once you get into urban hides, of which I have alot of, I do believe PMO makes a difference. It weeds out those newbies who just want to find something quick and easy and are not really committed to the sport.

3.3k · February 23, 2014

Well placed and well hidden caches last longer.

I agree that if you hide an ammo can several kilometers up a trail, there's probably no need for it to be premium member.

However, once you get into urban hides, of which I have alot of, I do believe PMO makes a difference. It weeds out those newbies who just want to find something quick and easy and are not really committed to the sport.

It seems to me that the chances of getting muggled are more about how easy it is to get to the location as well as whether the cache is PMO or not.

From what I saw on Dartmoor (large open space in SW England, for anyone not from these shores), anything within about 400 yards of the parking was crawling with people but as soon as you got anywhere that involved walking more than a mile or so it was all but deserted. Chances are anyone willing to make the effort to get to somewhere well off the beaten track to find a cache is going to make the effort to put it back, and the kind of muggle who would make the effort to get to an area is unlikely to trash a cache just because they found it there.

The kind of person who doesn't really want to have to put in any effort is unlikely to make much effort to look after the cache, and the cache that can easily be spotted by passing muggles in an area that takes no effort to reach is more likely than not to attract the attention of the kind of person who would just throw it away as a prank.

February 24, 2014

It seems to me that the chances of getting muggled are more about how easy it is to get to the location as well as whether the cache is PMO or not.

From what I saw on Dartmoor (large open space in SW England, for anyone not from these shores), anything within about 400 yards of the parking was crawling with people but as soon as you got anywhere that involved walking more than a mile or so it was all but deserted. Chances are anyone willing to make the effort to get to somewhere well off the beaten track to find a cache is going to make the effort to put it back, and the kind of muggle who would make the effort to get to an area is unlikely to trash a cache just because they found it there.

The kind of person who doesn't really want to have to put in any effort is unlikely to make much effort to look after the cache, and the cache that can easily be spotted by passing muggles in an area that takes no effort to reach is more likely than not to attract the attention of the kind of person who would just throw it away as a prank.

I agree with you there, those that are willing to seek out a cache more off the beaten path are more likely to respect that cache as well as the muggle who will venture further than most of the rest of the pack. Though I will add this to it, the muggle willing to travel off the beaten path is also likely to take the cache container from its location and out of the wilderness as trash thinking they are cleaning up the area. To try and counter this a well marked container with a note explaining that it is a game piece and meant to be left there could help, but not a bullet proof solution. You will still have those who wont care and still clean up the area regardless.

Edited February 24, 2014 by SirBowen

Whyizzitso?

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