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woodsters
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I've seen them used occasionally. Sometimes for a waypoint (holds paper with co-ords), sometimes as the cache container. They aren't waterproof.

I would use them as intended w/ the bison. When used that way, the log almost always stays dry...even if the o-ring deteriorates a bit.

 

All bison caches I have seen have not had them in them.

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I've seen them used occasionally. Sometimes for a waypoint (holds paper with co-ords), sometimes as the cache container. They aren't waterproof.

I would use them as intended w/ the bison. When used that way, the log almost always stays dry...even if the o-ring deteriorates a bit.

 

Log inside the tube, tube inside the bison...or "bison". I have several like this and the log is still dry on all of them.

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I've seen them used occasionally. Sometimes for a waypoint (holds paper with co-ords), sometimes as the cache container. They aren't waterproof.

I would use them as intended w/ the bison. When used that way, the log almost always stays dry...even if the o-ring deteriorates a bit.

 

Log inside the tube, tube inside the bison...or "bison". I have several like this and the log is still dry on all of them.

 

Which log fits in the tube? Nano size?

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I've only ever seen these in the fake, "Made in China", wanna-be bison tubes. Do they come in real Bison Design tubes? As others have mentioned, they are not water proof. I wouldn't even rate them as water resistant. The only advantage I can see, since the fake bison tubes are pretty crappy containers, is that they add a second level of poor protection from the elements. A crappy container, inside a crappy container, has got to be moderately better than just one crappy container.

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I've only ever seen these in the fake, "Made in China", wanna-be bison tubes. Do they come in real Bison Design tubes? As others have mentioned, they are not water proof. I wouldn't even rate them as water resistant. The only advantage I can see, since the fake bison tubes are pretty crappy containers, is that they add a second level of poor protection from the elements. A crappy container, inside a crappy container, has got to be moderately better than just one crappy container.

And, on top of that, it uses a whole lot of real estate inside - meaning you have to use a very, very small log sheet (bison's already have limited capacity).

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I think they only come in the fake bisons. Most I've seen that have been out for awhile end up with the threads broken on the small plastic insert tube. I suspect it is from people over-tightening them as they aren't made to be that durable. They do protect the log better than bison alone but you'll have to make a smaller than normal log to fit.

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These were originally manufactured as nitroglycerin pill containers. The larger container can hang around your neck or in a pocket, and the small interior container holds the nitro tabs. In a quality pill fob, the interior container is of plastic that does not react with nitroglycerin (which reacts to create sulfuric acid with many common plastics).

 

Most cache containers I've seen have not been expensive enough for that inner container to be correct as a nitro holder.

 

Unlike others here, I've never seen the interior contain help with moisture (I live in a wet humid area). On the contrary, the shallow thread will fail to stop water even when intact, and it cracks, as others have said. Once the bison is damp or wet the inner container is too, and it's difficult to get the soggy swollen log out of that tiny tube. I've watched people pocket the whole thing and add a new scrap of paper log to bison.

 

If I open a bison and find the inner contain with log inside, I'll just close it up and walk away. No sign, no log.

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The ones I ordered through amazon were actually labeled as pill containers. I went to he bison designs website and noticed that their capsules are noted as geocaching containers. So maybe I should actually note these as "pill containers that look like bison tubes". Lmao

 

And at $5.99 for 5 of them with free shipping, I will take my chance.

Edited by woodsters
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I've only ever seen these in the fake, "Made in China", wanna-be bison tubes. Do they come in real Bison Design tubes? As others have mentioned, they are not water proof. I wouldn't even rate them as water resistant. The only advantage I can see, since the fake bison tubes are pretty crappy containers, is that they add a second level of poor protection from the elements. A crappy container, inside a crappy container, has got to be moderately better than just one crappy container.

 

I agree here with a small exception....I don't think its even moderately better ( just harder to get to the log). In air conditioning work you accomplish nothing using two 40% efficient filters, back to back. Whatever passes through one is going to pass through the next. In the above arrangement the 0-ring is the primer seal....once the water is past that, forget it. We have actually found dozens of those plastic inner-bisons used as stand alone cache containers, contents always wet....they are among the worse containers out there.

I guess folks are trying to get 2 containers out of one bison.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.

 

Shaun

 

How?

Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

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I've only ever seen these in the fake, "Made in China", wanna-be bison tubes. Do they come in real Bison Design tubes? As others have mentioned, they are not water proof. I wouldn't even rate them as water resistant. The only advantage I can see, since the fake bison tubes are pretty crappy containers, is that they add a second level of poor protection from the elements. A crappy container, inside a crappy container, has got to be moderately better than just one crappy container.

 

I agree here with a small exception....I don't think its even moderately better ( just harder to get to the log). In air conditioning work you accomplish nothing using two 40% efficient filters, back to back. Whatever passes through one is going to pass through the next. In the above arrangement the 0-ring is the primer seal....once the water is past that, forget it. We have actually found dozens of those plastic inner-bisons used as stand alone cache containers, contents always wet....they are among the worse containers out there.

I guess folks are trying to get 2 containers out of one bison.

Now that I think about it, I agree. Crap inside of crap still equals crap.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.
How?
Because they are not very water resistant.
Also, the cheap knockoffs are made of cheaper metal, and the threads are cut with less care. The lids tend to get cross-threaded a lot more easily, which ruins any water resistance they may have.
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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.
How?
Because they are not very water resistant.
Also, the cheap knockoffs are made of cheaper metal, and the threads are cut with less care. The lids tend to get cross-threaded a lot more easily, which ruins any water resistance they may have.

 

The threads have nothing to do with water resistance. That is all from the o-ring.

 

Cheaper knockoffs are formed differently, usually (I am speculating) die-cast instead of spun. You can see the casting seams inside. The threads are of lower quality because of the production process, not the material.

 

The internal plastic container has nothing to do with water-tightness. These tubes are primarily made for people to carry nitroglycerin pills. The inner plastic container is there to protect the pills from direct contact with the aluminum. There is no need to use that inner container in a geocache. It just makes getting the log out more difficult.

 

The rubber o-rings included in these tubes (whether Bison on a knockoff) degrade on exposure to UV light and ozone (but not, as commonly believed, water), so the lifetime of the waterproof seal in the outdoors is on the order of months. You could perhaps buy more resistant o-ring materials, but that gets complicated.

 

Best solution is to use waterproof paper for the logs. Buy the really waterproof paper (National Geographic, NOT Rite In The Rain) and use it for the log. You can get 8 logs from an 8.5 x 11 sheet, which costs about a dollar.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.

 

Shaun

 

How?

Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

 

Do you believe this about all Bison-like tubes or only the knockoffs? Because the water resistance is identical.

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Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

Contempt? I think that's a stretch. I imagine many do it because they don't know any better. Also, some environments are mostly dry and a bison, fake or genuine, will be just fine. I doubt many do it with deliberate contempt. I use them on some hides (fake bisons, not the inserts) and they do seem to get wet inside more than I would have thought. I'm never sure if it's mostly the container or geocachers opening them in the rain or with wet hands. Probably a bit of each. I perform frequent maintenance on them including replacing o-rings, containers, logs, etc.

I hang them so they stay off the ground. I'd use a preform or match safe but they are not as easy to hang. What is a reliable and secure method to hang those? I'd like to switch over but don't want them to end up laying on the ground and getting lost.

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We purchased a bunch of bison tubes from an outdoors store to use in a paddle to series. This consisted mostly of small bison tubes with an inner plastic container, and large bison tubes with no inner container to which we added a tiny ziplock bag. A year later we went through the series again in the early spring and many of the large bison tubes needed maintenance, while nearly all of the smaller ones with inner containers did not. Of the two ammo cans, one was fine, while the other went missing. Id say the small bison tubes are pretty good. I reused many of the larger bison tubes, but used thicker o rings and will see how they did in a few months.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.

 

Shaun

 

How?

Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

 

Do you believe this about all Bison-like tubes or only the knockoffs? Because the water resistance is identical.

Do I believe the 'Made in China' wanna-be bison tubes suck? Yes, I do.

Contrary to your post above, the water resistance is a factor of both material, design and manufacturing process. This is true for the threads, as well as for the body. The true Bison Design tubes are made by a milling process, which results in a very firm body and very precise threads. With the crappy knock offs, the manufacturing process involves either a multi stamping process, a die-cast process, or a combination of both. These two processes result in threads which are much less precise, and which have a lower thread count. The Bison Design tubes use a much higher grade of aluminum, which allows for more consistency in expansion rates than the low grade aluminum, or even plastic, which the fakes use.

 

One area where you got it mostly right is in identifying the O-Ring as the primary weak point. But even here, the weakness is not consistent. The Bison Design tubes use a higher grade of rubber than the fake ones. All O-Rings are susceptible to degrading through exposure to the environment. The crappy O-Rings just degrade faster. Also, because the grade of rubber in the crappy O-Rings is so poor, they often do not compress well, which leaves your threads as the point where water resistance is determined. Fine threads, which mesh exactly, and tolerate compression, are better at keeping water out than course threads, which mesh poorly, and which do not tolerate compression.

 

So, in summation: Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with the O-Rings intact, the ability to repel moisture is not equal. Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with an O-Ring failure, the ability to repel moisture is not equal.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.

 

Shaun

 

How?

Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

 

Do you believe this about all Bison-like tubes or only the knockoffs? Because the water resistance is identical.

Do I believe the 'Made in China' wanna-be bison tubes suck? Yes, I do.

Contrary to your post above, the water resistance is a factor of both material, design and manufacturing process. This is true for the threads, as well as for the body. The true Bison Design tubes are made by a milling process, which results in a very firm body and very precise threads. With the crappy knock offs, the manufacturing process involves either a multi stamping process, a die-cast process, or a combination of both. These two processes result in threads which are much less precise, and which have a lower thread count. The Bison Design tubes use a much higher grade of aluminum, which allows for more consistency in expansion rates than the low grade aluminum, or even plastic, which the fakes use.

 

One area where you got it mostly right is in identifying the O-Ring as the primary weak point. But even here, the weakness is not consistent. The Bison Design tubes use a higher grade of rubber than the fake ones. All O-Rings are susceptible to degrading through exposure to the environment. The crappy O-Rings just degrade faster. Also, because the grade of rubber in the crappy O-Rings is so poor, they often do not compress well, which leaves your threads as the point where water resistance is determined. Fine threads, which mesh exactly, and tolerate compression, are better at keeping water out than course threads, which mesh poorly, and which do not tolerate compression.

 

So, in summation: Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with the O-Rings intact, the ability to repel moisture is not equal. Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with an O-Ring failure, the ability to repel moisture is not equal.

 

The o-ring is critical.....unless otherwise stated, it will most likely be vinyl and not last very long. I worked many years on large machinery using chemicals and oils and 98%? of the o-rings were Buena -N. Only on the extremely hot areas were Viton-C used ( maybe one or two o-rings ) For the field maint I do I feel the Buena is adequate....Viton may cost 5 times more.

In areas of Arizona and NM where it may get 140 deg in the Sun you may want to use Viton but in those climates you don't hardly need a container. A couple of years ago I found a nice size log book ( no container ) under a rock in the desert....it was obvious it had been soaked a few times but the desert always drys it out and it was in pretty good shape.

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Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

...in your opinion. However I've found plenty of soda preforms and match safes with soggy logs.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

 

That was my express intent by using bisons with inner plastic tubes, as I intended to sit back and cackle wildly as the reports of soaking wet logs came in. Unfortunately many did not fail at all, and plenty of people posted logs indicating that they enjoyed them. Either I failed miserably, or they were actually being sarcastic. I would have used film cans, but then my intent would have been obvious.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.

 

Shaun

 

How?

Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

 

Do you believe this about all Bison-like tubes or only the knockoffs? Because the water resistance is identical.

Do I believe the 'Made in China' wanna-be bison tubes suck? Yes, I do.

Contrary to your post above, the water resistance is a factor of both material, design and manufacturing process. This is true for the threads, as well as for the body. The true Bison Design tubes are made by a milling process, which results in a very firm body and very precise threads. With the crappy knock offs, the manufacturing process involves either a multi stamping process, a die-cast process, or a combination of both. These two processes result in threads which are much less precise, and which have a lower thread count. The Bison Design tubes use a much higher grade of aluminum, which allows for more consistency in expansion rates than the low grade aluminum, or even plastic, which the fakes use.

 

One area where you got it mostly right is in identifying the O-Ring as the primary weak point. But even here, the weakness is not consistent. The Bison Design tubes use a higher grade of rubber than the fake ones. All O-Rings are susceptible to degrading through exposure to the environment. The crappy O-Rings just degrade faster. Also, because the grade of rubber in the crappy O-Rings is so poor, they often do not compress well, which leaves your threads as the point where water resistance is determined. Fine threads, which mesh exactly, and tolerate compression, are better at keeping water out than course threads, which mesh poorly, and which do not tolerate compression.

 

So, in summation: Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with the O-Rings intact, the ability to repel moisture is not equal. Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with an O-Ring failure, the ability to repel moisture is not equal.

 

The o-ring is critical.....unless otherwise stated, it will most likely be vinyl and not last very long. I worked many years on large machinery using chemicals and oils and 98%? of the o-rings were Buena -N. Only on the extremely hot areas were Viton-C used ( maybe one or two o-rings ) For the field maint I do I feel the Buena is adequate....Viton may cost 5 times more.

In areas of Arizona and NM where it may get 140 deg in the Sun you may want to use Viton but in those climates you don't hardly need a container. A couple of years ago I found a nice size log book ( no container ) under a rock in the desert....it was obvious it had been soaked a few times but the desert always drys it out and it was in pretty good shape.

Do you remember who supplied your O-Rings? Were they domestic or foreign? If they came from a foreign manufacturer, do you know what quality controls they were required to meet, if any? The last bison type tubes I bought came from eBay. They were roughly a dollar each, after shipping. When I started playing with them, I noticed significant differences in density and elasticity in the O-Rings, even though they all came from the same dealer. Some were so stiff I could barely indent them with my thumb nail, while others were so soft I could indent them using just the weight of a quarter, on edge. I decided to scrap all the O-Rings and start over, with new ones purchased at my local hardware store. I don't know enough about them to say if they were Buena-N or Viton-C. Heck, I didn't even know such terms applied to O-Rings. Thank Gaia for Google! :lol:

 

What I did notice was that the ones I bought from the hardware store were consistent, across the board, for density and elasticity. I took all twelve of them, (with the new O-Rings installed), put tissue inside, closed them snugly and ran them through a few loads of laundry. Half of them failed miserably, with the interiors becoming a pulpy mess. (Two lost their tops altogether) Of the other six, four of them failed somewhat, by allowing noticeable amounts of moisture inside. When I inspected the ones that failed, (10 out of 12), I noticed how there was no consistency between the threads.

 

So, yes. O-Rings are critical.

 

But a good O-Ring won't save a crappy container.

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However I've found plenty of soda preforms and match safes with soggy logs.

That's super. Utterly irrelevant, but still, super. I've found ammo cans with soggy logs. Does that mean the venerable ammo can sucks? Hardly. I even found a hide-a-key, once, which had a dry log. Should I surmise, using your reasoning, that a hide-a-key is a better container than an ammo can, other considerations being equal? Of course not. Such a summation would be absurd. For me, when determining if a particular container sucks, I don't ask if that container has ever failed, anywhere. Rather, I prefer to utilize broad spectrum analysis, looking at my total experience, and comparing that to the experience of others. If my findings indicate that a particular container generally does a poor job of protecting its contents, I rate that container as crappy.

 

The cheaply made Chinese knock off bison tubes are crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

The real, Bison Design tubes, are not crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

If, in your evaluation, you determine that Chinese take out containers are awesome, please, feel free to express your opinion. These are the forums, where opinions are typically welcomed. I might counter your post by expressing my opinion, based on my experience, but as you are no doubt aware, my findings are no more, or less, valid, than your findings.

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Those sound like really annoying bison tubes.

 

Shaun

 

How?

Because they are not very water resistant. For about $1.20 each, you are purchasing something which does not do a very good job at protecting its contents. Had you gne for a soda bottle preform, which run about $0.60 each, when bought in lots of 30, or match safes, which run about $0.88 at Wally World, you would save money, and not have a crappy container.

 

By deliberately selecting an inadequate container, you are expressing your contempt for the rest of the geocaching community, who will be forced to deal with your soggy logs.

 

Do you believe this about all Bison-like tubes or only the knockoffs? Because the water resistance is identical.

Do I believe the 'Made in China' wanna-be bison tubes suck? Yes, I do.

Contrary to your post above, the water resistance is a factor of both material, design and manufacturing process. This is true for the threads, as well as for the body. The true Bison Design tubes are made by a milling process, which results in a very firm body and very precise threads. With the crappy knock offs, the manufacturing process involves either a multi stamping process, a die-cast process, or a combination of both. These two processes result in threads which are much less precise, and which have a lower thread count. The Bison Design tubes use a much higher grade of aluminum, which allows for more consistency in expansion rates than the low grade aluminum, or even plastic, which the fakes use.

 

One area where you got it mostly right is in identifying the O-Ring as the primary weak point. But even here, the weakness is not consistent. The Bison Design tubes use a higher grade of rubber than the fake ones. All O-Rings are susceptible to degrading through exposure to the environment. The crappy O-Rings just degrade faster. Also, because the grade of rubber in the crappy O-Rings is so poor, they often do not compress well, which leaves your threads as the point where water resistance is determined. Fine threads, which mesh exactly, and tolerate compression, are better at keeping water out than course threads, which mesh poorly, and which do not tolerate compression.

 

So, in summation: Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with the O-Rings intact, the ability to repel moisture is not equal. Comparing real Bison Design tubes with cheap knock off tubes with an O-Ring failure, the ability to repel moisture is not equal.

 

The o-ring is critical.....unless otherwise stated, it will most likely be vinyl and not last very long. I worked many years on large machinery using chemicals and oils and 98%? of the o-rings were Buena -N. Only on the extremely hot areas were Viton-C used ( maybe one or two o-rings ) For the field maint I do I feel the Buena is adequate....Viton may cost 5 times more.

In areas of Arizona and NM where it may get 140 deg in the Sun you may want to use Viton but in those climates you don't hardly need a container. A couple of years ago I found a nice size log book ( no container ) under a rock in the desert....it was obvious it had been soaked a few times but the desert always drys it out and it was in pretty good shape.

Do you remember who supplied your O-Rings? Were they domestic or foreign? If they came from a foreign manufacturer, do you know what quality controls they were required to meet, if any? The last bison type tubes I bought came from eBay. They were roughly a dollar each, after shipping. When I started playing with them, I noticed significant differences in density and elasticity in the O-Rings, even though they all came from the same dealer. Some were so stiff I could barely indent them with my thumb nail, while others were so soft I could indent them using just the weight of a quarter, on edge. I decided to scrap all the O-Rings and start over, with new ones purchased at my local hardware store. I don't know enough about them to say if they were Buena-N or Viton-C. Heck, I didn't even know such terms applied to O-Rings. Thank Gaia for Google! :lol:

 

What I did notice was that the ones I bought from the hardware store were consistent, across the board, for density and elasticity. I took all twelve of them, (with the new O-Rings installed), put tissue inside, closed them snugly and ran them through a few loads of laundry. Half of them failed miserably, with the interiors becoming a pulpy mess. (Two lost their tops altogether) Of the other six, four of them failed somewhat, by allowing noticeable amounts of moisture inside. When I inspected the ones that failed, (10 out of 12), I noticed how there was no consistency between the threads.

 

So, yes. O-Rings are critical.

 

But a good O-Ring won't save a crappy container.

 

These for match holders

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pack-of-Metric-O-rings-2mm-CS-x-20mm-ID-Orings-2x20mm-/260840764734?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

 

These for bisons

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pack-of-Metric-O-rings-1mm-CS-x-11mm-ID-Orings-1x11mm-/260840763527?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

 

On the bison, next time I might try a 1.5 mm thickness.

Most small o-rings on Ebay are for paintball guns and the like.

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I think some people might be playing with their "O rings" too much.

 

It's just a container. I asked if anyone used the plastic inserts as a seperate container. Nothing more.

 

Don't use that plastic insert.

 

A bison is a decent container but typically shipped with cheap o-rings that break....when putting out a bison its best to replace the o-ring with one that is Buena-N.

 

Your hide will be fine.....tons of them out there.

 

Sometimes it gets over technical around here but you learn a lot.....I have.

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I think some people might be playing with their "O rings" too much.

A forum is kind of a gathering place for sharing ideas and experiences, as well as asking questions. That's generally how forums function. In this particular forum, questions tend to get explored rather thoroughly. For instance, with your inquiry regarding the crappy plastic insert found in the fake bison tubes, you received the specific answer you sought, (they suck), as well as bonus advice and experience regarding other segments of your question. As you've already discovered, you are perfectly free to ignore any advice which you don't like.

 

One commonality you'll discover about relatively seasoned geocachers, is that, for the most part, we would rather find a cache with a dry log, as opposed to a soggy wad of pulp. Toward that end, when we see someone planning on using a container which our individual experience, in our particular geographic region, demonstrates to be crappy, we offer our experience in the hopes that the person might rethink their container choice. For instance, if you lived near Seattle, and asked if a paper lunch bag would make a good cache container, most folks in here would share their experience with similar containers. At that point, the ball is in your court. Knowing that others have experienced significant issues with paper bags, (or fake bison tubes), you are certainly free to use them anyway.

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However I've found plenty of soda preforms and match safes with soggy logs.

That's super. Utterly irrelevant, but still, super. I've found ammo cans with soggy logs. Does that mean the venerable ammo can sucks? Hardly. I even found a hide-a-key, once, which had a dry log. Should I surmise, using your reasoning, that a hide-a-key is a better container than an ammo can, other considerations being equal? Of course not. Such a summation would be absurd. For me, when determining if a particular container sucks, I don't ask if that container has ever failed, anywhere. Rather, I prefer to utilize broad spectrum analysis, looking at my total experience, and comparing that to the experience of others. If my findings indicate that a particular container generally does a poor job of protecting its contents, I rate that container as crappy.

 

The cheaply made Chinese knock off bison tubes are crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

The real, Bison Design tubes, are not crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

If, in your evaluation, you determine that Chinese take out containers are awesome, please, feel free to express your opinion. These are the forums, where opinions are typically welcomed. I might counter your post by expressing my opinion, based on my experience, but as you are no doubt aware, my findings are no more, or less, valid, than your findings.

 

I could go along with that if there were only 2 manufacturers of bison tubes. However there are several dozen. Having a plastic insert to separate the tiny nitro pills from the outer casing does not automatically designate it as crappy. The majority of the ones I have found have found were dry, and yes, actual experiences are certainly valid. I'm sure that Bison Designs make a very nice product, but so do several other manufacturers. Those match safes you are promoting at wally world are lousy. Recently I checked out a few and noticed the cap only threaded one revolution before it was tight. I then took off the gasket and saw that it threaded fine. It seemed to be designed without any thought to the gasket. I recall that in past years they did not do that, so I suppose they are getting their product from different vendors. I have also noticed preforms often have crappy damp wrinkled logs.

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I have also noticed preforms often have crappy damp wrinkled logs.

Again, that's great. Super, even. Though, still irrelevant.

The fact that you've found the occasional preform with a damp log is right up there with me finding the occasional ammo can with a damp log. Do we rate the overall product satisfaction level based on a handful of failures, or do we look at the total of our individual experience? I call preforms great containers because my experience in finding them has been mostly positive. I won't denigrate them as a container choice simply because there were a few which failed.

 

You have found dry (fake) bison tubes. Great. You have found a bunch. Even better. So, for you, the fake bison tube can be an awesome container. I, on the other hand, have not. My experience runs almost perfectly contradictory to your experience. As such, for me, fake bison tubes suck.

 

Real Bison Design tubes are awesome. :)

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Since the thread header is containers, maybe this isn't too off-topic.

 

I've yet to see a matchstick holder with an O-ring in it.

We've bought from three different sources and all had washers in them.

A few years ago, the subject came up, I tried O-rings with different cross sections.

Thin seemed to squash/break off when the top's tightened (maybe) a little too tight.

Thicker didn't seem to allow tightening of the lid.

- The flat washers that came with them are still fine.

 

Is it the cross section that makes the difference?

I used nitrile, epdm and fluorocarbon with the same results.

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However I've found plenty of soda preforms and match safes with soggy logs.

That's super. Utterly irrelevant, but still, super. I've found ammo cans with soggy logs. Does that mean the venerable ammo can sucks? Hardly. I even found a hide-a-key, once, which had a dry log. Should I surmise, using your reasoning, that a hide-a-key is a better container than an ammo can, other considerations being equal? Of course not. Such a summation would be absurd. For me, when determining if a particular container sucks, I don't ask if that container has ever failed, anywhere. Rather, I prefer to utilize broad spectrum analysis, looking at my total experience, and comparing that to the experience of others. If my findings indicate that a particular container generally does a poor job of protecting its contents, I rate that container as crappy.

 

The cheaply made Chinese knock off bison tubes are crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

The real, Bison Design tubes, are not crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

If, in your evaluation, you determine that Chinese take out containers are awesome, please, feel free to express your opinion. These are the forums, where opinions are typically welcomed. I might counter your post by expressing my opinion, based on my experience, but as you are no doubt aware, my findings are no more, or less, valid, than your findings.

 

I could go along with that if there were only 2 manufacturers of bison tubes. However there are several dozen. Having a plastic insert to separate the tiny nitro pills from the outer casing does not automatically designate it as crappy. The majority of the ones I have found have found were dry, and yes, actual experiences are certainly valid. I'm sure that Bison Designs make a very nice product, but so do several other manufacturers. Those match safes you are promoting at wally world are lousy. Recently I checked out a few and noticed the cap only threaded one revolution before it was tight. I then took off the gasket and saw that it threaded fine. It seemed to be designed without any thought to the gasket. I recall that in past years they did not do that, so I suppose they are getting their product from different vendors. I have also noticed preforms often have crappy damp wrinkled logs.

 

Are those Walmart match safes Coghlans? I've had very good results with Coghlans plastic match boxes.

 

41wFiSKoc3L._SX425_.jpg

 

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However I've found plenty of soda preforms and match safes with soggy logs.

That's super. Utterly irrelevant, but still, super. I've found ammo cans with soggy logs. Does that mean the venerable ammo can sucks? Hardly. I even found a hide-a-key, once, which had a dry log. Should I surmise, using your reasoning, that a hide-a-key is a better container than an ammo can, other considerations being equal? Of course not. Such a summation would be absurd. For me, when determining if a particular container sucks, I don't ask if that container has ever failed, anywhere. Rather, I prefer to utilize broad spectrum analysis, looking at my total experience, and comparing that to the experience of others. If my findings indicate that a particular container generally does a poor job of protecting its contents, I rate that container as crappy.

 

The cheaply made Chinese knock off bison tubes are crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

The real, Bison Design tubes, are not crappy.

(According to my findings)

 

If, in your evaluation, you determine that Chinese take out containers are awesome, please, feel free to express your opinion. These are the forums, where opinions are typically welcomed. I might counter your post by expressing my opinion, based on my experience, but as you are no doubt aware, my findings are no more, or less, valid, than your findings.

 

I could go along with that if there were only 2 manufacturers of bison tubes. However there are several dozen. Having a plastic insert to separate the tiny nitro pills from the outer casing does not automatically designate it as crappy. The majority of the ones I have found have found were dry, and yes, actual experiences are certainly valid. I'm sure that Bison Designs make a very nice product, but so do several other manufacturers. Those match safes you are promoting at wally world are lousy. Recently I checked out a few and noticed the cap only threaded one revolution before it was tight. I then took off the gasket and saw that it threaded fine. It seemed to be designed without any thought to the gasket. I recall that in past years they did not do that, so I suppose they are getting their product from different vendors. I have also noticed preforms often have crappy damp wrinkled logs.

 

Are those Walmart match safes Coghlans? I've had very good results with Coghlans plastic match boxes.

 

41wFiSKoc3L._SX425_.jpg

 

I've had good luck with that hard plastic orange safe.....I don't care for the green rubbery one ( usually has the lid retainer )

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