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"Off yer trolley" caches


Kmroberts3

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Hello :D

 

Just wondering if people have any experience with placing "off yer trolley" caches - generally in the grounds of well known supermarket! I have found quite a few on my travels and notice that the supermarket closest to me does not have one. Has anybody asked the store manager for permission, or is the usual thing just to go ahead and place it, and assume they won't mind / won't ever come across it? If permission has been sought, has it been given?

 

Thanks for any help / advice :D

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I know there was one near me at a mall. Target had it removed. I don't know anything about how it was placed, with or without permission. Or if Target even had the right to remove it... (since it was in the malls communal parking lot)

There are many around here though that are fine. One local manager said he discovered the cache one day, and was very grateful (as he assumed it helped out business)rolleyes.gif

Edited by ADKer
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As the guidelines state: You assure us that you have the landowner's and/or land manager's permission before you hide any geocache, whether placed on private or public property. Therefore, if the cache is placed on private land the CO should seek the permission of the Store Management. Sorry, but to protect the hobby, a quick appointment with the store manager to ask his/her permission is needed.

 

I am planning one outside a church on a public footpath, and as the fabric of the church will be used to hide the cache, even though it is not damaging the building, I will still be asking permission, and stating on the cache instructions that it is preferable to attempt the cache away from service times.

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It does not need to be on the premises or in its car park. As long as its near it. Store managers change like the wind and having met a few I can assure you there will be no hassle placing one. More footfall is more footfall. An appointment would not be necessary as they are usually milling about the store. Obviously lunchtime would be a poor choice as would their large meeting periods which are generally in the morning. But a quick question at customer services will get you a swift answer after a quick chat. Either with the store or duty manager. Expect a confused ... ok yeah whatever. Get their name for reference.

 

Edit .... lol oh yeah remember its GUIDLINES not RULES.

Edited by Seaglass Pirates
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Edit .... lol oh yeah remember its GUIDLINES not RULES.

Yeah, but you'd be lying to publish a cache without getting permission, since you check a little box saying that you have received permission to place the cache. ;)

 

Not necessarily, because the paragraph for which that is the heading says "... adequate permission ..." so there's wriggle room there, and the barrack room lawyers will(and have many times in the past) debate long and hard on what constitutes "adequate";

Edited by MartyBartfast
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Marty is right. And there is the "recognised practice" rule. Which is a legal term. If it is deemed recognised practice to place a cache in a certain area then ... well that's that isn't it.

 

However if people keep banging the "rule" drum instead of the guideline drum you will get a hobby which takes you on a nice drive of caches 0.1 apart from lands end to Jon O Groats with footpaths and public spaces empty as a desert. Because people either couldn't be bothered/hassled/ enduring enough to pay for land registry sesrches for mystery land owners. Because unless someone knows who's it is, that's the only way you're ever gonna find out. And at £4 a search maybe more ... Well it's not a hobby then. And down the pan it will go. Rapidly. So ... bang away and watch your hobby become a mire of micros in lay-bys. Still I'd imagine some pillock will carry on regardless.

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Marty is right. And there is the "recognised practice" rule. Which is a legal term. If it is deemed recognised practice to place a cache in a certain area then ... well that's that isn't it.

In other words, the "monkey see, monkey do" rule? :laughing: If it's recognised practice... by whom? Geocachers or store managers? Most store managers have no clue about Geocaching, and therefore don't reconise the practice.

 

If 10 people place caches without permission of the manager (or even notification to the manager), does that make it OK? What if the 11th one is discovered and the bomb squad is sent out?

 

I'd rather play it safe than sorry. I won't place caches without at least letting the manager know it's there. But maybe that's just because I don't place them in store parking lots or at trolley stops.

 

Because people either couldn't be bothered/hassled/ enduring enough to pay for land registry sesrches for mystery land owners.

What about simply asking the manager? That's at least SOMETHING. Better than giving Geocaching a black eye when yet another "bomb" gets blown up.

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*onward Christian soldiereeeers marching as to waAaaaaar, with the crooooooss of jeeeeeeeesus going on before*

 

bang bang bang bang

 

And the last quote, quoting me was either poorly inferred or poorly understood or both. But that related to footpaths and not supermarket Carpark trolley bays etc.

 

What's that you say .... Off topic! Except this was the convo that people were having about footpaths and the drum bangers banged loudly that day. Now try and place a cache on a footpath without the landowners permission. If you can find out who that is. So bang away about every nook and cranny and you won't have a crannie left to nook without a letter from god.

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Oh wow and ouch

 

www.landregistryservices.com - search for land, fields, woods, derelict or Vacant Properties, Lanes, Alleyways - no problem - £37.00 please. But please be aware that in our search we may find extra details which will bump up the costs.

 

Edit and phew

 

www.Landregsitry.gov.uk

 

"you can use our services to -

 

Find out who owns a property or registered piece of land

Check whether a property is registered

Prove your ownership of a registred piece of land

 

and you can find out online at a cost of

 

£6.00 - which is £3.00 to find out title registers showing ownership details but not exactly where they own.

 

So thats £3.00 to find out the extent of the property lol. Clever."

 

**** N.B The documents you buy online are NOT ADMISSIBLE IN COURT as evidence. For this you will need to order official copies of the title register and or title plan by post ****

 

This means your assurance, land owner conversation and subsequent email proof to a reviewer is worth squat. Worth squat in a court of law. You need official (this means officially produced and stamped (think getting a birth certificate replacement or drivers license) from the official government body in order to prove anything. And that works both ways. Land owner kicking off. You proving to the review body that you have proof permission for that cache placement. Without it ... any evidence is heresay. Which begs the question, why we have to provide it at all. I mean the footpath laws state that we can ...

 

walk, pass by without obstruction, rest as long as we dont cause obstruction and a few other things as well. It does not say we can breath. Eat. Smoke. Run. Jog. Skip. Dance. Or sloooooow mooooo walk. Moonwalk. Cha cha cha. Yet no one is going to get prosecuted for doing so. The idea of proof of land owners permission for cache placement is sound. But it is only sound if it is required. Required by law ...

 

well the footpath laws do not say I cant place a geocache. They do state what I cannot do. So I should NOT do those things and ... you see its silly.

 

So does the Law require me to get permission to leave a geocache on a footpath. Nope it really does not. It does require me to jump through various costly hoops to find out who a land owner is, but I am not required to find one to place a geocache. I am required by geocaching.com's reviewers. Not its rules.

 

Its all quite curious when you actually look instead of follow ...

Edited by Seaglass Pirates
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... I WILL :D

 

so you love this footpath. This imaginary footpath lets say. You place your cache. reviewers says ... erm proof ... you being oblivious to everything ... say oh darn. Ok ill find out who. You have technically already broken a this imagined law we must abide by, because in order to submit a cache you must also (according to the guidelines) have the cache in place. Oh dear.

 

So you go and try and find out the land owners name. £6.00 later and 5 days apparently, your non admissible in court of law documentation arrives in your inbox. You contact the land owner and they take however long they may to reply. If ever. If they do it will be yes or no to your footpath placed cache. Great or boooo. If boooo thats cost you £6.00 and by this time most I know will be questioning the idea ... but someone will pipe up no doubt that its all goooood. However the silent majority will be thinking its naff. If its a go ahead place your cache. You copy the email to the reviewer and you plant your cache. YAY.

Well you publish your planted cache. But wait a sec ... who said I needed permission to place the cache on a footpath at all. Its a right of way which states what I can and cannot do on it. Just because the rules of footpaths state what I can do on it, I am not limited to just those. I am bound by them, but not limited by them. Becayse there are many things that I may do on them which the law could not possibly cover. Else it would be housed in a warehouse in its own right. So it is left to common practice. Or recognised practice. Common sense as long as it abides by law as a whole. No criminal damage etc. So geoaching along the footpath should be acceptable. Because it is recognised practice on other footpaths. And I can show a bucket load of examples. Throughout the world.

 

The only argument I have seen thrown out there is "so if you just leave a geocache there without permission, techincally you are littering". Incorrect. Litter is a specified thing. In law. It is the act of throwing away rubbish. Forget what you think littering is or your interpretation. It is what it is in law. As a geocache is maintained, usually, and is owned and visited it is not rubbish under what the law sees as rubbish. So it is a belonging. The worst that can happen is that it is removed but as it is a belonging it must be handed into a police station for the owner to retrieve. If not retrieved in a time frame it can be declassified to rubbish, sold off in a police auction or handed back to the finder. And the rules or guidlines do NOT mention footpaths specifically. Not one bit. In fact the only place you will find mention of footpaths specifically is on the wiki ... which is maintained by the GAGB who are not as we recently discovered an authoritative body and are not connected to groundpeak at all. There is mention on groundpeaks wiki that footpaths require permission. However I am NOT required by anything to read/follow/find/acknowledge the wiki in any way shape or form. Its not part of the T & C's it is not part of the geocaching pro-forma for placing a cache.

 

I mean it goes on and on to be honest. And while you will I am sure get no joy from the reviewers if you challenge their decision, time constraints, lack of will, lack of ... other things you would be supported by the law.

 

What usually happens here is that someone will invoke the word suing. Well for what. For placing a cache somewhere. Bomb threat etc. police have on every occasion of which there are ooooooo thous ... hun ... te ... two, public reports in the UK of it being a bomb possibly and both those were ... ohhhhh in a town. So NOT requiring permission at all. Any footpath have the SAS helo'd to initiate a terrorist lockdown I am unaware of? And even if they were it would be ... boob alert. Blah blah blah "we dont want to spoil other peoples fun so think before you place a cache etc etc etc"

 

I'm afraid there is too much "yeah but what if what if what if" and not enough doing.

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Just wondering - what on earth is so special about a supermarket car park that it warrants a cache there?

 

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

Edited by me N u
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You haven't lived unless you've sat in a Carpark at a supermarket and watched people.

 

Those thick stupid morons who drag a trolly ... Even when it gets stuck they try harder ... Between the cars to get it closer to a door.

 

Watched a teenage lad throw himself from seat to seat shooting customers with his fingers. The dodgy dealers who take seemingly random strangers to their boots. The old ladies who kick cars that have parked too close. Women who will walk the length of a car park to take trollys back. I mean most of them. It's amazing. Blokes generally leave it blocking the space next to the car. But the women when reaching the trolly bay insist, almost in a autistic way, on adding it properly to the rest by pushing it in properly. Even if that trolly line is half way across the thoroughfare. And yes you blooming do. Watched it happen many times at wadebridge tesco ( other supermarkets are available).

 

All life is there. And it's a theme. And your quote is a guideline remember.

 

Oh and Seaglass Pirate No.1 wants me to add ...

 

And at least at a tesco you can go and speak to the manager and get permission for the cache easily. You don't have to pay for land searches to find out who owns it. *cough* irony *cough*

Edited by Seaglass Pirates
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Just wondering - what on earth is so special about a supermarket car park that it warrants a cache there?

 

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

 

You're right, in general; however for the first UK Mega event in 2009, a couple of campsites were organised for those of us who wanted to make a stay of it, and someone had the brilliant idea of sticking an Off Yer Trolley cache in every supermarket in the area so we would easily know where we could get provisions - it was back in the days before Off Yer Trolley's had taken off in a big way and so there weren't that many around.

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Just wondering - what on earth is so special about a supermarket car park that it warrants a cache there?

 

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

 

You're right, in general; however for the first UK Mega event in 2009, a couple of campsites were organised for those of us who wanted to make a stay of it, and someone had the brilliant idea of sticking an Off Yer Trolley cache in every supermarket in the area so we would easily know where we could get provisions - it was back in the days before Off Yer Trolley's had taken off in a big way and so there weren't that many around.

Well I don't often read the forums but smiling at that this thread..

Even more so as i was the cacher that placed the caches at the supermarkets in Ripon.. ;)

 

Marty I just noticed it was 2008... Time flies as they say ;)

Edited by Madyokel
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