Long and difficult multi-step cache

[+-CJ-]

My question is about a real cache that I'm thinking about to publish at geocaching.com.

 

This quest is multi-stage implemented a classical scheme for this type of geocaches: find a micro container at Step 1 - solve a small puzzle - get coordinates for Step 2 - get to Step 2 - solve a puzzle - (and so on). The cache is located in woods, distances are not so big but puzzles make cachers to choose wrong ways often. So, an average adult with some geocaching experience is able to do the cache in 2-3 days.

 

So far there seem to be no problems about publishing this at geocaching.com. The trouble is with our rather cold and snowy climate. The whole route is so long that I initially offered cachers to choose between "full" and "light" variants of my cache. The "light" variant was indended to be most suitable in winter when doing the whole route through the deep snow and looking for microcaches in such circumstances brings more stars to D/T. For those who chose the "light" variant I placed a standard sized container in the middle of the "large" route. So, winter players could log the cache as found after they completed first half of the route and signed the logbook in the "intermediate" container. In summer this wasn't an option.

 

Can I do anything of this sort at geocaching.com? If yes, how it should be implemented?

 

Right now I can see that I could offer an all-season "light" cache as the legitimate variant and make the rest of the route a bonus. This isn't exactly what I want however.

[+cerberus1]

There's an awesome cache from a fun, great guy (haven't been able to hit it yet) in NJ called Tickle-The-Sky, that has different levels by one's ability.

You can only log one find.

Feel like going for others, they log a note.

That kinda what you were looking for?

[+niraD]

Would it be possible to use the same final location for both the regular version and the light/winter version, but to provide a shortcut during the winter?

 

If I understand your original idea, you were suggesting a multi-stage cache:

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F -> G -> H -> I -> J -> K -> L -> M

 

You would like to switch between M being the final (regular) and F being the final (light/winter).

 

My idea is to have E lead to F most of the time, but to swap the puzzle/clue during the winter so that E leads to M during the winter.

 

That way, you have a single final location, and a bunch of intermediate waypoints. None of this changes during the winter.

 

Or you could check with your reviewer to see if a cache with two "final location" waypoints would work. It may not be as much of a problem as you are anticipating.

[+-CJ-]

Tickle-The-Sky...

That kinda what you were looking for?

 

Need to look through it more carefully. Looks like mystery type isn't for me since there are miles and miles of walking in my case.

 

Would it be possible to use the same final location for both the regular version and the light/winter version, but to provide a shortcut during the winter?

 

No. The distance between E and M is too big for a logical shortcut. Moreover, I don't want people to get to the very same final point in winter - this will look like they got a sort of discount for the same product In fact, the intermediate container is smaller than the final one, there usually are less items inside and most probably not that interesting.

 

Or you could check with your reviewer to see if a cache with two "final location" waypoints would work

 

I think I could but I wish to know how to organize all this in a best way at the website when submitting my cache.

[+dprovan]

If you really want to do this, I'm sure you'll be able to work it out. But if I were you, I wouldn't worry about the fact that the cache isn't always accessible. I'd much rather see a challenging cache be sometimes harder than normal, even to the point of being impossible, than see it be easier during some times of the year so people can get it without experiencing the full challenge. Just put out the simpler challenge as an independent cache if you want to give people something to do during the winter.

 

Full disclosure: I live in an area where the worst weather is the occasional rain, and there hasn't even been much of that lately, so I don't have to deal with that yucky thing called "winter". On the other hand, there are some caches around here that are underwater most of the year and are only available when the lake levels are down during the dry months, and no one seems to object to that. In fact, those caches are quite coveted because of the challenge of getting there at the right time of year.

[+-CJ-]

Just put out the simpler challenge as an independent cache if you want to give people something to do during the winter.

 

How can I do this? I think I cannot just place the "winter" cache "on top" of the first half of the "summer cache" because of the saturation limit. I doubt I can place two caches "one by one"; there would be no issues with the first ("winter") cache but what coordinates should I publish for the second ("summer") cache then? What type of cache should they both be - taking into account that distances are greater then commonly required for mysteries?

[+dprovan]

Just put out the simpler challenge as an independent cache if you want to give people something to do during the winter.

How can I do this? I think I cannot just place the "winter" cache "on top" of the first half of the "summer cache" because of the saturation limit.

Yes, sorry, I meant a different cache that doesn't conflict, so giving up on the idea of covering the same ground. But if what you want to accomplish is to have both a summer and winter cache in the same area, that's a challenge, but I still would encourage you to try to do it as two different caches rather than one that changes nature (and difficulty) based on the seasons. Perhaps you could avoid conflict by using more virtual stages, although, obviously, you'd still need two different final locations. And now I'm thinking about how cool it would be to be working through two different multis at the same time during the right time of year.

 

But let me stress that I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, I'm just telling what I think I'd prefer. There's nothing wrong with a polymorphic cache if that's what you have your heart set on.

[+-CJ-]

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F -> G -> H -> I -> J -> K -> L -> M

 

The two containers are in E and M.

 

"In summer season you must sign the logbook at point M to log this cache as found. In winter season you must sign the logbook in point E to log this cache as found (though you're welcome to walk the whole route if you like/can)".

 

Does this approach violate any guidelines?

[+niraD]

I see a couple ways to do two overlapping routes. Both would have waypoints that are physical for one route and virtual for the other.

 

One approach would be to have an easy winter route with physical stages and a final:

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F

 

Then the hard summer route could use some of those physical stages as virtual (question to answer) stages, plus add several additional stages and a new final:

[A] -> -> [C] -> [D] -> [E] -> [F] -> G -> H -> I -> J -> K -> L -> M

 

Another approach would be to have a hard summer route with physical stages and a final, with a virtual (question to answer) stage where the easy winter final is:

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> [F] -> G -> H -> I -> J -> K -> L -> M

 

Then the easy winter route would use some of those physical stages as virtual (question to answer) waypoints:

[A] -> -> [C] -> [D] -> [E] -> F

 

And of course, there are other variations, mixing and matching the waypoints, for example:

[A] -> B -> [C] -> D -> [E] -> F

A -> -> C -> [D] -> E -> [F] -> G -> H -> I -> J -> K -> L -> M

 

The design just depends on where you have a gap of 528ft/161m between stages, because that's where you can transition from one route's physical waypoints to the other route's physical waypoints without conflicting with the saturation limit.

 

Of course, I am not a reviewer, and I don't even play one on TV, so I can't say whether this would really be acceptable.

[+dprovan]

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F -> G -> H -> I -> J -> K -> L -> M

 

The two containers are in E and M.

 

"In summer season you must sign the logbook at point M to log this cache as found. In winter season you must sign the logbook in point E to log this cache as found (though you're welcome to walk the whole route if you like/can)".

 

Does this approach violate any guidelines?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would be a violation. But if that's what you're doing, why not have A-E be one multicache that's available year round and leave E-M as a second one that's only available in the summer? In particular, I don't think there's a problem with making the E-M cache start with, "First, follow my other cache from A-E, and you'll find coordinates for F in E's container," although you might be forced to make that a puzzle cache to avoid having to declare A-E as waypoints, since they'd conflict with the first cache.

[+-CJ-]

All stages are physical hides. To make things clear, the cache already exists with all stages and both container placed. The cache has lived a long life at the national Russian website. I'm thinking about how to transfer it properly to geocaching.com.

 

you might be forced to make that a puzzle cache

 

Puzzle cache is not an option because of distances between points.

 

From what I see, making two caches of one looks not really good. Would add even more headache. Perhaps I have to try the approach described in my previous posting and if that doesn't work with our reviewer - just forget about this seasonal difference and make one multi-step cache.

[+GeoTrekker26]

All stages are physical hides. To make things clear, the cache already exists with all stages and both container placed. The cache has lived a long life at the national Russian website. I'm thinking about how to transfer it properly to geocaching.com.

 

you might be forced to make that a puzzle cache

 

Puzzle cache is not an option because of distances between points.

 

From what I see, making two caches of one looks not really good. Would add even more headache. Perhaps I have to try the approach described in my previous posting and if that doesn't work with our reviewer - just forget about this seasonal difference and make one multi-step cache.

 

I'm a little confused. If one can stop at (alternate) E in the winter why are there also two caches at M?

 

Are the two at E far enough apart that you can direct the user to the winter cache with slightly different coordinates? If so, you might be able to add a note, either on the cache page or in the cache, to adjust the answer found at D by xx, yy in winter. Obviously something like this would need to be run by your reviewer first.

[+-CJ-]

If one can stop at (alternate) E in the winter why are there also two caches at M?

 

There's one container hidden at E and another one at M. The whole route has been one multi-step. The trick was that I (being the CO) allowed cachers to stop at E in winter (if they wanted to) and log the cache as found as soon as they sign the logbook in the E container.

 

I think that I could E1 to start the second cache. However this would a) require another trip to the cache, expose the area where E is placed.