+-CJ- Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 No. I was thinking about the idea which can still be seen in the very first post. It was different from what you're talking about. There are too many words about poorly maintained caches and lazy COs around here. That's rather proportional to the amount of wet containers. I guess you're right. But IMHO this is not enough as a reason to repeat this fact in every thread about cache maintenance. You see, people start talking negative language like this - "don't ever maintain any cache that you don't own". With such approach one doesn't make any difference between a responsible CO and a lazy CO who doesn't care about his cache. In this thread the idea was to put a kind of repairing kits in some containers in the area. I don't see any evil propaganda of poor COs in the original idea. It's just a free offer of some stuff that can be useful for cache maintenance for those enthusiasts who wish to help. How to motivate these enthusiasts properly so their assistance is fruitful to the game at whole and not supporting poor COs - that's the general task of education. I understand your example with 35mm film containers. I've used such containers too for years and the climate in our country is really demanding to hiding practice. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. I agree here....COMMUNITY is the key word. Supplies , however, don't need to be provided. I just received some supplies, one large bag of 0-rings for bisons and one for match safes. I also carry hundreds of logs in ziplocks in my truck ( we probably have replaced a thousand or so in the field ).....I also carry a large assortment of containers for replacing damaged ones , rags for drying, etc. If everyone pitched in it would improve the game. We've had this discussion before. I see no problem with helping out, but I think that you need to be familiar with the history of the cache and that of the hider, especially if you are traveling. Some caches simply have completed their life cycle. It drives me crazy when some power cacher from out of town shows up and revives a cache that has out lived itself, has an inactive CO, and the reviewer was planning on archiving in a week. I've seen three such local caches go through this cycle. In each case, the CO was only in the game for a short time, placed an inferior container and "helpers" continued to replace the containers with inferior containers. I know that you have made it clear that when you replace a container, you do so with a good quality one, which I think only prolongs the problem for a longer time. The CO isn't coming back to GZ and you are not either, so why not just log your find, document the maintenance issues and let the cache die? There are some players who honestly believe that more = better, regardless of quality. You can often locate these folks in the forums by looking for key phrases, such as, "...and that means more caches for us to find..." Hopefully, this notion will pass out of popularity, in time, but given the advent of power trails, I won't hold my breath. Yeah, if you help your breath, you would clearly pass out. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Why hasn't the CO maintained it? Is an annual visit to check on it and replace the math problems too much to ask? Some people have full time jobs. The CO in this case not only has a full time job, but that full time job causes him to travel and relocate often. These days, he isn't here through half of the year. When he placed it, he was here all year long. No one logged that it needed maintenance, so in his short time here he maintained the other caches he has around the wide area. I fixed it up, let him know, and when he's back he's going to go through and fix the entire trail. If that's something to complain about, some of you need to relax. Okay, has he taken the time to update the cache page. I have absolutely no problem with a CO helping another CO, as long as the CO is updating the cache page. Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) I posted this to be able to set more creative geocaches (on my 78 active geocaches, I used 45 different camouflages), and to create a teamplay spirit between geocachers. I don't think it's what I suggest that would increase the number of power trails: it's statistics goals that encourage this type of circuit. Each one has to accept the different ways to play, and chose the one he prefers. If yours is to find creative geocaches, for sure you'll have less offers from cachers, because of the time it takes, and the money it requires too. Edited January 15, 2014 by fab_seeker Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 More than 1 year after the last post, I am happy to see such a "newbie tip" from Geocaching HQ on PInterest ! : http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/61/f4/f861f477cf275c646e2cb68c69cc4c90.jpg I am helping tourist offices here in France to develop geocaching, and they will give, with a roadbook, an explanation manual and little items for children (for exchange), small kits of logbooks + ziplock to people who wish to discover the region by geocaching ! Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Where did that image comes from? I found it on Pinterest as well, but I don't know if it is official Groundspeak (as suggested by the logo). For anyone with no interest in creating a Pinterest account, here's the image : I'm always surprised by the vehemence that comes up whenever someone mentions performing voluntary maintenance on another's geocache. No one should be expected to do it, but if you want to, why not? If you're the cache owner, and you prefer to do your own maintenance, head out immediately after reading about it in your log and fix it. Edited February 7, 2015 by Chrysalides Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Isn't it what is written in many power trails circuits, that the finders should bring with them some logbooks and boxes? (mine would not be power trails) I noticed that some volunteer cache reviewers allow language like this on the cache listings for "power trails." So, when someone placed "please help maintain my caches" language on a group of power trail caches in my review territory, I sought guidance from Groundspeak. Geocaching HQ confirmed the accuracy of what I stated in Post #2. Your cache listings should not encourage others to perform your cache maintenance duties on your behalf. Hmm. I missed this thread last year. Maybe I don't spend so much time here. So, in other words, this is "grandfathered"? NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission! Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Where did that image comes from? I found it on Pinterest as well, but I don't know if it is official Groundspeak (as suggested by the logo). Thanks for the image directly in the thread ! The extract of the PInterest account : Geocaching Seattle, WA www.geocaching.com The official Pinterest board of Geocaching HQ. Find us at Geocaching.com or one of our Geocaching Apps for your phone. It can be found here for those who have a PInterest account : https://fr.pinterest.com/gogeocaching/ Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I'm always surprised by the vehemence that comes up whenever someone mentions performing voluntary maintenance on another's geocache. No one should be expected to do it, but if you want to, why not? If you're the cache owner, and you prefer to do your own maintenance, head out immediately after reading about it in your log and fix it. The little checkmark next to the url www.geocaching.com on Pinterest means it's a verified account. Like if it was Lady Gaga's Pinterest account or something. I've done it myself, if I recall, I had to put a little code snippet in the head section of my main page or something. Vehemence? I don't think carrying a few extra log sheets with you is the same as the so-called "Delaware Commission" (see my last post) telling people there should be no DNF's on their power trail, and take along extra containers and logsheets. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 It can be found here for those who have a PInterest account : https://fr.pinterest.com/gogeocaching/ Thanks! I found it on a different board (? or whatever it is called on pinterest) uploaded by someone who runs a geocaching online store, which was why I wasn't sure if it is official. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 It can be found here for those who have a PInterest account : https://fr.pinterest.com/gogeocaching/ Thanks! I found it on a different board (? or whatever it is called on pinterest) uploaded by someone who runs a geocaching online store, which was why I wasn't sure if it is official. That would be a "repin". You need to educate yourself on Pinterest, man. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The little checkmark next to the url www.geocaching.com on Pinterest means it's a verified account. Like if it was Lady Gaga's Pinterest account or something. I've done it myself, if I recall, I had to put a little code snippet in the head section of my main page or something. Thanks for the info. I'm a newbie with regards to pinterest. So many social media sites, so little time Vehemence? I don't think carrying a few extra log sheets with you is the same as the so-called "Delaware Commission" (see my last post) telling people there should be no DNF's on their power trail, and take along extra containers and logsheets. I wasn't referring to this particular case. Someone started a thread saying he carries about supplies to repair caches with wet logs. From some of the responses, you'd think he'd said he goes around stealing geocoins or something. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 It can be found here for those who have a PInterest account : https://fr.pinterest.com/gogeocaching/ Thanks! I found it on a different board (? or whatever it is called on pinterest) uploaded by someone who runs a geocaching online store, which was why I wasn't sure if it is official. That would be a "repin". You need to educate yourself on Pinterest, man. I'd get right on it after I hit 100k finds (which should happen in 125 years at my current rate...) Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 It can be found here for those who have a PInterest account : https://fr.pinterest.com/gogeocaching/ Thanks! I found it on a different board (? or whatever it is called on pinterest) uploaded by someone who runs a geocaching online store, which was why I wasn't sure if it is official. That would be a "repin". You need to educate yourself on Pinterest, man. No. I don't. I use three social media sites. Yes, I have a Facebook account and it's mostly because of a few closed groups that I follow and to follow some extended family members and a few close friends. I use Twitter, mostly because all the local sports teams live tweet the games and it's an easy way to follow the game. Twitter is also commonly used for communication for various technical conferences I attend or want to follow using a conference hashtag. A few years ago I was at one where the computer and facility support team suggested using a conference hashtag to report any issues. Someone posted that it was cold in one of the rooms or that the wireless was down and in a couple of minutes someone came in to turn up the thermostat or reset a router. I also have an account on LinkedIn only because it feels a bit more professional. I'll add a contact now and then but otherwise never log into the site. I suppose Youtube might be considered a social media site and I'll watch videos occasionally but don't post any comments. That's all I need. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I use three social media sites. Make that four. This here forums is a kind of social media as well Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 It can be found here for those who have a PInterest account : https://fr.pinterest.com/gogeocaching/ Thanks! I found it on a different board (? or whatever it is called on pinterest) uploaded by someone who runs a geocaching online store, which was why I wasn't sure if it is official. That would be a "repin". You need to educate yourself on Pinterest, man. No. I don't. I use three social media sites. Yes, I have a Facebook account and it's mostly because of a few closed groups that I follow and to follow some extended family members and a few close friends. I use Twitter, mostly because all the local sports teams live tweet the games and it's an easy way to follow the game. Twitter is also commonly used for communication for various technical conferences I attend or want to follow using a conference hashtag. A few years ago I was at one where the computer and facility support team suggested using a conference hashtag to report any issues. Someone posted that it was cold in one of the rooms or that the wireless was down and in a couple of minutes someone came in to turn up the thermostat or reset a router. I also have an account on LinkedIn only because it feels a bit more professional. I'll add a contact now and then but otherwise never log into the site. I suppose Youtube might be considered a social media site and I'll watch videos occasionally but don't post any comments. That's all I need. Using all the social media sites, including Pinterest, which traditionally has a reputation as a "chick site" (Fashion boards, Hair boards, nail boards, etc..) is a necessary evil for a webmaster. You think Mr.Yuck has a personal Pinterest account? I'd rather douse myself in gasoline, and light myself on fire. Wait a minute, I'm on topic here. The OP, who bumped their own thread, interpreted a pin on Pinterest as an "official endorsement" of replacing logs. That's certainly not the first time we've seen Geocaching.com social media endorse something, so to speak. The first thing that pops into my mind is a video posted to the official blog, which showed someone finding paint marker coordinates on the bottom of a wooden footbridge as the first leg of a multi. Don't make me look that up, but I probably could if I wanted to. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Where did that image comes from? I found it on Pinterest as well, but I don't know if it is official Groundspeak (as suggested by the logo). For anyone with no interest in creating a Pinterest account, here's the image : That one, including wording, was part of a couple of "Newbie Tips" in todays newsletter. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm always surprised by the vehemence that comes up whenever someone mentions performing voluntary maintenance on another's geocache. No one should be expected to do it, but if you want to, why not? If you're the cache owner, and you prefer to do your own maintenance, head out immediately after reading about it in your log and fix it. We respond with a mention in a log, not waiting for a NM. We've found lately that many don't bother to mention a cache fix or log replacement (in others hides), maybe believing that it's just something they're supposed to do. - That pic in the newsletter tells new folks it's okay, yet many think (and I'm one...) it's not. They're my caches, not Groundspeak's. If they're not gonna be responsible for 'em. they shouldn't tell others it's okay to fix 'em as needed without my okay. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We respond with a mention in a log, not waiting for a NM. We've found lately that many don't bother to mention a cache fix or log replacement (in others hides), maybe believing that it's just something they're supposed to do. - That pic in the newsletter tells new folks it's okay, yet many think (and I'm one...) it's not. They're my caches, not Groundspeak's. If they're not gonna be responsible for 'em. they shouldn't tell others it's okay to fix 'em as needed without my okay. If I find one of your caches and find the logsheet full (or damaged), and I add a logsheet to the cache, did not remove any old logsheets / logbook, and mentioned in my log "Log is full, added a logsheet" - would you consider that to be inappropriate behavior? Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We respond with a mention in a log, not waiting for a NM. We've found lately that many don't bother to mention a cache fix or log replacement (in others hides), maybe believing that it's just something they're supposed to do. - That pic in the newsletter tells new folks it's okay, yet many think (and I'm one...) it's not. They're my caches, not Groundspeak's. If they're not gonna be responsible for 'em. they shouldn't tell others it's okay to fix 'em as needed without my okay. If I find one of your caches and find the logsheet full (or damaged), and I add a logsheet to the cache, did not remove any old logsheets / logbook, and mentioned in my log "Log is full, added a logsheet" - would you consider that to be inappropriate behavior? If it ever happened, of course not. I'd "fix" your replacement probably the next day though. My issue is telling hundreds (thousands?) of newbies to replace my Rite in Rain log, that often just needs a wipe (if it ever gets damp...), with a strip off a calender page, memo page, whatever they deem "a log" - and it's okay. "Newbie Tips" shouldn't include maintenance on others hides. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 My issue is telling hundreds (thousands?) of newbies to replace my Rite in Rain log, that often just needs a wipe (if it ever gets damp...), with a strip off a calender page, memo page, whatever they deem "a log" - and it's okay. "Newbie Tips" shouldn't include maintenance on others hides. Sort of agree. At the very least, I think that newbie tip shouldn't have "*if you can*" in it. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) We respond with a mention in a log, not waiting for a NM. We've found lately that many don't bother to mention a cache fix or log replacement (in others hides), maybe believing that it's just something they're supposed to do. - That pic in the newsletter tells new folks it's okay, yet many think (and I'm one...) it's not. They're my caches, not Groundspeak's. If they're not gonna be responsible for 'em. they shouldn't tell others it's okay to fix 'em as needed without my okay. If I find one of your caches and find the logsheet full (or damaged), and I add a logsheet to the cache, did not remove any old logsheets / logbook, and mentioned in my log "Log is full, added a logsheet" - would you consider that to be inappropriate behavior? If it ever happened, of course not. I'd "fix" your replacement probably the next day though. My issue is telling hundreds (thousands?) of newbies to replace my Rite in Rain log, that often just needs a wipe (if it ever gets damp...), with a strip off a calender page, memo page, whatever they deem "a log" - and it's okay. "Newbie Tips" shouldn't include maintenance on others hides. It's my issue too. I make my own logbooks for our caches. I don't want anyone replacing them. Groundspeak is sanctioning/encouraging it. They should be encouraging people to notify owners when the cache is almost full to give them enough time to go replace it. They could encourage people to use the Needs Maintenance log. They are encouraging abandoned caches by suggesting that maintaining a cache - which includes maintaining the logbook/logsheet - is something the finders' should/could do. They are suggesting that a leaky container (resulting in a wet log and contents) is an OK vessel for a cache. They are encouraging poor quality caches that should never go away through the archival process because the community will keep replacing the wet moldy logs in abandoned caches. Edited February 9, 2015 by L0ne.R Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We respond with a mention in a log, not waiting for a NM. We've found lately that many don't bother to mention a cache fix or log replacement (in others hides), maybe believing that it's just something they're supposed to do. - That pic in the newsletter tells new folks it's okay, yet many think (and I'm one...) it's not. They're my caches, not Groundspeak's. If they're not gonna be responsible for 'em. they shouldn't tell others it's okay to fix 'em as needed without my okay. If I find one of your caches and find the logsheet full (or damaged), and I add a logsheet to the cache, did not remove any old logsheets / logbook, and mentioned in my log "Log is full, added a logsheet" - would you consider that to be inappropriate behavior? If it ever happened, of course not. I'd "fix" your replacement probably the next day though. My issue is telling hundreds (thousands?) of newbies to replace my Rite in Rain log, that often just needs a wipe (if it ever gets damp...), with a strip off a calender page, memo page, whatever they deem "a log" - and it's okay. "Newbie Tips" shouldn't include maintenance on others hides. It's my issue too. I make my own logbooks for our caches. I don't want anyone replacing them. Groundspeak is sanctioning/encouraging it. They should be encouraging people to notify owners when the cache is almost full to give them enough time to go replace it. They could encourage people to use the Needs Maintenance log. They are encouraging abandoned caches by suggesting that maintaining a cache - which includes maintaining the logbook/logsheet - is something the finders' should/could do. They are suggesting that a leaky container (resulting in a wet log and contents) is an OK vessel for a cache. They are encouraging poor quality caches that should never go away through the archival process because the community will keep replacing the wet moldy logs in abandoned caches. Remember when Waymarking was lame and geocaching was a real adventure? Quote Link to comment
awdemuth Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 We respond with a mention in a log, not waiting for a NM. We've found lately that many don't bother to mention a cache fix or log replacement (in others hides), maybe believing that it's just something they're supposed to do. - That pic in the newsletter tells new folks it's okay, yet many think (and I'm one...) it's not. They're my caches, not Groundspeak's. If they're not gonna be responsible for 'em. they shouldn't tell others it's okay to fix 'em as needed without my okay. If I find one of your caches and find the logsheet full (or damaged), and I add a logsheet to the cache, did not remove any old logsheets / logbook, and mentioned in my log "Log is full, added a logsheet" - would you consider that to be inappropriate behavior? Many don't log that it is full/wet/damaged. I've been to many sites where the log strip is overflowing. Yet, none of the last 6 cachers that had to smoosh their name and date in between lines bothered to mention it in their logs. I've even seen "Cache is in good shape" by someone who squeezed their name in. I know there's more to cache ownership than waiting for someone to tell you there's something wrong, and one cannot simply count the logs since their last replacement (some people don't log online), but there lies a bit of a burden on the finder to try to notify the owner or at least other cachers of a cache in need of maintenance in your online log (offline loggers need not apply), or at least be truthful about cache condition. I'll maintain a cache. I said it, and I'll face the wrath of those CO's that abhor such activity. If the log is wet, I'll unfold it and wait for it to dry. I'll dry out the container too. I'll replace the bag it was in if it's old and leaky. If a micro or nano is full, I'll replace it. Yep. I'll take the old one out and replace it. I have nice, printed micro and nano logs taped and rolled up around a nail shank or toothpick ready to drop in. If I have Rite in the Rain, I'll use that, if not, paper it is. I scan the log, contact the CO to tell them what maintenance I've done, and to see if they want a copy of their log sheet, and if they do, I'll offer to mail them the log as well. I appreciate it when somebody patches up a cache of mine, even if it's bandaid for a broken arm, as long as they tell me about it,. I've had magnets fall off that someone tried to tape back on. It didn't work, but I appreciated the effort. What I didn't appreciate is that there was no mention of it at all. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'll maintain a cache. I said it, and I'll face the wrath of those CO's that abhor such activity. Other than in the forums, I have not come across any cache owner complaining that someone added a logsheet to their cache. I have read other cachers complaining, but that's only when people kept stuffing in new logsheets until the cache is too full, making it difficult to remove. Nail shank - haven't thought of using that. I just use the straight sections of a paper clip. I find that toothpicks work better anyway (unless you need it to be magnetic), the glue binds to it better. Quote Link to comment
awdemuth Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'll maintain a cache. I said it, and I'll face the wrath of those CO's that abhor such activity. Other than in the forums, I have not come across any cache owner complaining that someone added a logsheet to their cache. I have read other cachers complaining, but that's only when people kept stuffing in new logsheets until the cache is too full, making it difficult to remove. Nail shank - haven't thought of using that. I just use the straight sections of a paper clip. I find that toothpicks work better anyway (unless you need it to be magnetic), the glue binds to it better. Well, good. It's food for thought, though, and good food at that. cerberus1 and Lone.R, I appreciate your insight and feelings about this, you certainly aren't the only ones, and it's something I will be taking into consideration. Paperclip - haven't thought of using that! I just used the nearest disposable I had in my shop the first time I made one, which was a brad nail. I've been using them ever since, never giving alternatives any thought. I bet those paperclips snip a whole lot easier than brads. Quote Link to comment
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