+fab_seeker Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hello! I am preparing new circuits for this summer, and I will set, at the beginning of each circuit, a regular box in which geocachers will find swags as usual, but also some "emergency maintenance kits", so that they can themselves maintain the "full logbooks" and "wet logbooks" problems if it is needed on the other caches of the circuit. Those small kits are small plastic bags with logbooks, which could be set in any micro cache (so also bigger ones). I will also add some pens. And I was thinking about proposing this kind of caches as a new type of caches, so that they could easily be spotted on the map if a finder needs a logbook in a cache and has the time to maintain it himself. I think it could be helpful for everybody. Less gasoline would be spent, less time wasted too, for simple problems. I see it as a kind of "teamplay" between geocachers, I know some of us already do so, but it would encourage and facilitate others to do so. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Under the listing guidelines, you are responsible for the maintenance of your own caches. If your reviewer sees language on your cache listings encouraging visitors to do your maintenance work for you, the reviewer may require the removal of that language before publishing your cache. Given the above, I would not be optimistic about the creation of a new cache type for a "Maintenance Cache." Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Isn't it what is written in many power trails circuits, that the finders should bring with them some logbooks and boxes? (mine would not be power trails) Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well Ok so I forget the idea. Quote Link to comment
+T.D.M.22 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well Ok so I forget the idea. I agree. Quote Link to comment
+6NoisyHikers Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm going to vote against the idea of a whole new cache type, but I will give the OP my support for stocking the first cache with maintenance supplies for the trail. Think about it this way: The CO is providing the materials for maintenance and basically asking that, in exchange for his placing caches for you to find, could you please do a few touch ups if a cache needs it along the way. If everything is in good shape, the cacher has a little maintenance packet to "pay it forward" elsewhere (or they might drop it off into a similar regular-sized container at the end of the trail). I like this idea fab_seeker and I hope you set up your circuit this way. In fact, I think I might make some fun little "maintenance kit" swag items just to drop off on our caching expeditions. I'll post pics when they're made. Quote Link to comment
^up Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I do not want anyone doing anything to my caches but find them. Already had an issue with "throw-down" cachers so called replacing a missing cache and five other cachers logged that terrible replacement rather than my creative one, cheapening the point. DO NOT MAINTAIN ANY CACHE BUT YOUR OWN. If you find an issue, only log a DNF and/or Needs Maintenance. If you want to help fellow caters, create an event that assists in getting supplies to fellow cachers. Edited January 5, 2014 by ^up Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The CO is providing the materials for maintenance and basically asking that, in exchange for his placing caches for you to find, could you please do a few touch ups if a cache needs it along the way. If everything is in good shape, the cacher has a little maintenance packet to "pay it forward" elsewhere (or they might drop it off into a similar regular-sized container at the end of the trail). I just don't see how miles and miles of a nice trail used up with unmaintained-by-the-CO, poor quality leaky containers, almost always micros, almost always the-same-old-same-old style of hide, with logsheets the a CO could care less about, is a good thing for the community? And should be rewarded with maintenance by the finders? Personally I consider it selfish to take up a trailway with poor quality containers that the CO expects the community to maintain. It's much better if the trail grow organically with a variety of cache hides and styles by a variety of cache owners, then hopefully they'll be a few quality cache experiences along the hike or bike ride. Share the land. Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 And should be rewarded with maintenance by the finders? That's why I don't like statistics... if it creates jealousy, it's not a good thing. I geocache to have fun, walking, hiding, discovering, not to get badges. If it's a reason to prevent teamplay, I'll soon hate statistics! Plus: This idea is not for all the kinds of maintenance, only for logbook reasons. I place many kinds of camouflages/ sizes of boxes on my circuits. I think it's funnier for children, and geocachers in general. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 They are already using this idea for Lab caches, which are temporary at mega events. As for regular caches, it will only cause more "cheating", as cachers will share the codes like they do with coins and TBs. How about just signing the log and not worrying about any "cheating"? Quote Link to comment
+TriciaG Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Errr, 4WF, did you post in the wrong thread? Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I do not want anyone doing anything to my caches but find them. Already had an issue with "throw-down" cachers so called replacing a missing cache and five other cachers logged that terrible replacement rather than my creative one, cheapening the point. DO NOT MAINTAIN ANY CACHE BUT YOUR OWN. If you find an issue, only log a DNF and/or Needs Maintenance. If you want to help fellow caters, create an event that assists in getting supplies to fellow cachers. Same here. Take a DNF and don't contact me asking for a hint. I got a email from a finder stating that I had the wrong size container listed. I found a throw-down film container at GZ with the first finder being one that has logged several thousand geocaches as finds. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Errr, 4WF, did you post in the wrong thread? Hmmm. Either that, or the topic about code word caches was combined with another one and my post was accidentally moved here. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Isn't it what is written in many power trails circuits, that the finders should bring with them some logbooks and boxes? (mine would not be power trails) I noticed that some volunteer cache reviewers allow language like this on the cache listings for "power trails." So, when someone placed "please help maintain my caches" language on a group of power trail caches in my review territory, I sought guidance from Groundspeak. Geocaching HQ confirmed the accuracy of what I stated in Post #2. Your cache listings should not encourage others to perform your cache maintenance duties on your behalf. Quote Link to comment
+6NoisyHikers Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. Helping with minor issues and the CO planning on others doing maintenance aren't the same. Quote Link to comment
^up Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If a power series is too much for a single person to handle, then have partner(s). That is what I do...and maintain caches in two states this way. But this is because we both have visited each cache and know exactly how each is suppose to be hidden. Problem with and hunter that puts a throw-down is they don't know the subtleness of the hide or may not have the unique container that a hider uses. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Helping with minor issues and the CO planning on others doing maintenance aren't the same.Yep. Helping with minor maintenance is fine. Carrying a maintenance kit is fine. Providing maintenance kits to others (for example, by leaving them in caches) is fine. Expecting others to maintain your caches for you is not fine. Quote Link to comment
+6NoisyHikers Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Helping with minor issues and the CO planning on others doing maintenance aren't the same. To the OP: Don't write it as a "plan" on the cache page. Stock the first cache anyway. Those who are of a mind to be helpful in general will do so; those who are not, won't. And every few months, take a walk on your own trail and do "full" maintenance - you'll have to restock the first cache anyway Quote Link to comment
+fab_seeker Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) The fact is that I live in two different regions, placed caches in these two regions, and I may not come back before 3-4 weeks in the other sometimes. Finders are not always ready to wait "so" much for a maintenance. But I know many finders are ready to help me, because they found my caches and encourage me with enthousiasm! I have some >70% (even some 100%) favorite caches. Should I stop placing after 75 active caches? Or can I place till 150 with their help? Enabling them to play and have fun another time? Or should I build my ideas of original caches and give them to other cachers to place them and own them (that may be what I'll do soon)? My longest circuit is 20 caches on a 10km loop at the moment, and it's not a power trail. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think you should take full responsibility for maintaining your own caches, and not place more than you can properly maintain. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Under the listing guidelines, you are responsible for the maintenance of your own caches. If your reviewer sees language on your cache listings encouraging visitors to do your maintenance work for you, the reviewer may require the removal of that language before publishing your cache. Given the above, I would not be optimistic about the creation of a new cache type for a "Maintenance Cache." The "asking others to maintain your cache" issue has already been addressed but, if a new cache type is being proposed, then the creation of that new cache type would require a change in the guidelines. Isn't that, in essence, what happened with challenge caches? The guidelines stated that caches could not have additional logging requirements. Challenge caches have the additional logging requirement that you must find other caches to log it as a find. Rather than ban challenge caches because they violate the guidelines, the guidelines were changed to allow for the creation (even though the fizzy, jasmer, and delorme challenges had existed for a long time) of challenge caches. Quote Link to comment
+TriciaG Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So if a cacher does the series and submits a NM or NA on one or two of the caches due to moldy logs, leaky or broken containers, etc. rather than go to the maintenance cache and do the maintenance themselves, would it then be considered selfish or mean in that cacher? This seems like a slippery slope to me, a slope towards public pressure to maintain caches when it's not the finder's responsibility. Quote Link to comment
+Yuma4 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think the idea has some merits but needs a slight change. I think some others hit it right, with the Minor Maintenance SWAG. Placing a baggie with some extra logs and a pen that you can take and; should you come across a cache needing a new log sheet, missing a writing implement or having a writing implement that doesn't work, replacing those items is very helpful. I would never advocate for replacing a cache with a throw down. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? For me it was: ...so that they can themselves maintain the "full logbooks" and "wet logbooks" problems if it is needed on the other caches of the circuit. Those small kits are small plastic bags with logbooks, which could be set in any micro cache (so also bigger ones). I will also add some pens. Anticipating wet logbooks and enough wet logbooks and full logbooks to require a container full of maintenance kits. The statement made me assume a dense power trail full of poor quality micros. What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? Yes, if he placed a yogurt tub or gladware container or any poor quality container - I wouldn't dry it out, it's just going to get wet and damaged again. If he placed one good quality cache and generally takes care of it (maintenance visits generally once a year and more often if reported), then yes, I would dry out the cache, if the container is not compromised, and only suffering a minor setback, example someone left a latch undone on an authentic Lock & Lock. If the logbook was full I'd mention it in my online log. If others had already mentioned it and a month has passed I'd post an NM. The problem that I see with a Maintenance Tool Box cache type: It would likely encourage a greater proliferation of poor-quality power trails. There would be no hope that the PT would go away or some spots on the trail would eventually open up for others to plant on. Around here the mega micro PT trails with the leaky containers slowly die back when NMs pile up and the owners archive them rather then maintain them. The trail will forever be filled with leaky micros. Encourages laziness. Once a year the CO drives to the start of the PT with a bucket full paper in baggies and he's done. 100+ caches supplied with new logbooks - no energy expended by the CO. No need to plan a full day (or a few full days) to maintain all the pill bottle PT caches the CO so graciously planted for the community. Next thing you know someone will request that we do away with logbooks/sheets to make it even less work for the COs that want to plant more then they can reasonably handle. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think the idea has some merits but needs a slight change. I think some others hit it right, with the Minor Maintenance SWAG. Placing a baggie with some extra logs and a pen that you can take and; should you come across a cache needing a new log sheet, missing a writing implement or having a writing implement that doesn't work, replacing those items is very helpful. I would never advocate for replacing a cache with a throw down. What I have done in the past is post a note in our cache's log asking the next finders if they would be so kind as to leave a pencil (although these days know one expects a pencil in the cache) or a scrap of paper to tide the cache over until I can get there in about a week. Quote Link to comment
+6NoisyHikers Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 ...so that they can themselves maintain the "full logbooks" and "wet logbooks" problems if it is needed on the other caches of the circuit. Those small kits are small plastic bags with logbooks, which could be set in any micro cache (so also bigger ones). I will also add some pens. I focussed more on the bolded part of this statement. I thought the OP was thinking ahead and being realistic about the inevitable issues of series caches. Here on the Wet Coast of BC, caches and logs get wet in the best of containers simply from moisture in the air, never mind cachers opening and closing the container in the rain (because if we didn't cache in the rain, we'd never go caching!) Yes, there are terrible container choices made by terrible COs. I just don't like the idea that people assume anyone who decides to place a "power trail" is going to be irresponsible about it. Quote Link to comment
+BAMBOOZLE Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. I agree here....COMMUNITY is the key word. Supplies , however, don't need to be provided. I just received some supplies, one large bag of 0-rings for bisons and one for match safes. I also carry hundreds of logs in ziplocks in my truck ( we probably have replaced a thousand or so in the field ).....I also carry a large assortment of containers for replacing damaged ones , rags for drying, etc. If everyone pitched in it would improve the game. Quote Link to comment
^up Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Could do a cache of caches. I did this for one cache. I placed a cache in a nearby, but different spot. If the cache ends up needing maintenance and has to be deactivated or archived, I can switch to the back up. The back up is labeled as "back-up" so as not to confuse a finder (though it is about 50 feet away). This allows me to not have to visit a far off cache immediately. I can switch back once I visit and restore the original (or make the original spot the new back up). Point: there are all kinds of ways to work maintenance and longevity into caches. Creativity is part of the game. I get that many enjoy team work and a sense of 'community' but one has to have personal responsibility and accept limits of their abilities. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? For me it was: ...so that they can themselves maintain the "full logbooks" and "wet logbooks" problems if it is needed on the other caches of the circuit. Those small kits are small plastic bags with logbooks, which could be set in any micro cache (so also bigger ones). I will also add some pens. Anticipating wet logbooks and enough wet logbooks and full logbooks to require a container full of maintenance kits. The statement made me assume a dense power trail full of poor quality micros. What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? Yes, if he placed a yogurt tub or gladware container or any poor quality container - I wouldn't dry it out, it's just going to get wet and damaged again. If he placed one good quality cache and generally takes care of it (maintenance visits generally once a year and more often if reported), then yes, I would dry out the cache, if the container is not compromised, and only suffering a minor setback, example someone left a latch undone on an authentic Lock & Lock. If the logbook was full I'd mention it in my online log. If others had already mentioned it and a month has passed I'd post an NM. The problem that I see with a Maintenance Tool Box cache type: It would likely encourage a greater proliferation of poor-quality power trails. There would be no hope that the PT would go away or some spots on the trail would eventually open up for others to plant on. Around here the mega micro PT trails with the leaky containers slowly die back when NMs pile up and the owners archive them rather then maintain them. The trail will forever be filled with leaky micros. Encourages laziness. Once a year the CO drives to the start of the PT with a bucket full paper in baggies and he's done. 100+ caches supplied with new logbooks - no energy expended by the CO. No need to plan a full day (or a few full days) to maintain all the pill bottle PT caches the CO so graciously planted for the community. Next thing you know someone will request that we do away with logbooks/sheets to make it even less work for the COs that want to plant more then they can reasonably handle. I would assume that this so called "maintenance" cache would be a high quality container capable of protecting the maintenance kits from the elements? Why not simply place the same type of containers along the entire circuit? I have experimented with different types of containers over the years and quickly forgot about using the ones that didn't work. I have a 197 active caches and haven't had a "wet log" log posted in almost two years. If I were to get a found log on one of my remote caches saying that the log was wet and they replaced it, I would thank them, however, the idea of placing one good cache container full of dry log kits at the beginning of a trail and a expecting people to take those kits and carry them to my crappy cache containers further up the trail just seems strange to me. Use good containers from the start and your maintenance duties become greatly diminished. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 ...so that they can themselves maintain the "full logbooks" and "wet logbooks" problems if it is needed on the other caches of the circuit. Those small kits are small plastic bags with logbooks, which could be set in any micro cache (so also bigger ones). I will also add some pens. I focussed more on the bolded part of this statement. I thought the OP was thinking ahead and being realistic about the inevitable issues of series caches. Here on the Wet Coast of BC, caches and logs get wet in the best of containers simply from moisture in the air, never mind cachers opening and closing the container in the rain (because if we didn't cache in the rain, we'd never go caching!) Yes, there are terrible container choices made by terrible COs. I just don't like the idea that people assume anyone who decides to place a "power trail" is going to be irresponsible about it. Would not the special "maintenance" cache be subject to the same environment? What good are the maintenance kits if they are all wet? Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. I agree here....COMMUNITY is the key word. Supplies , however, don't need to be provided. I just received some supplies, one large bag of 0-rings for bisons and one for match safes. I also carry hundreds of logs in ziplocks in my truck ( we probably have replaced a thousand or so in the field ).....I also carry a large assortment of containers for replacing damaged ones , rags for drying, etc. If everyone pitched in it would improve the game. We've had this discussion before. I see no problem with helping out, but I think that you need to be familiar with the history of the cache and that of the hider, especially if you are traveling. Some caches simply have completed their life cycle. It drives me crazy when some power cacher from out of town shows up and revives a cache that has out lived itself, has an inactive CO, and the reviewer was planning on archiving in a week. I've seen three such local caches go through this cycle. In each case, the CO was only in the game for a short time, placed an inferior container and "helpers" continued to replace the containers with inferior containers. I know that you have made it clear that when you replace a container, you do so with a good quality one, which I think only prolongs the problem for a longer time. The CO isn't coming back to GZ and you are not either, so why not just log your find, document the maintenance issues and let the cache die? Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. The difference is between a cache who decides to give a cache a little TLC, and a cache owner assuming that everyone else will do the maintenance for them. Placing a "geocaching tool box" so that other people can maintain your caches might not be explicitly stating that you expect other people to do it for you but certainly seems to cross the line into suggesting that they might like to. And for all this particular CO might just be making a suggestion that anyone passing might be willing to help them out because there a lot of caches, formally condoning that sort of thing will only encourage the "place and forget" crowd who never bother with cache maintenance because it's apparently acceptable to leave that sort of thing to the people finding it. I haven't placed any caches for the simple reason I struggle to find locations that are sufficiently interesting to hide a cache, and sufficiently close to my normal routine that I can commit to timely maintenance. It would be very easy to find some spots to hide a cache if maintenance wasn't going to be a concern, but that helps nobody. Perhaps if the game focussed more on maintenance (maybe even going as far as expecting cache hiders to present their maintenance plans) we'd see fewer caches placed but the ones we did see would be more likely to last. Maybe we'd see a reduction in people finding a few film pots behind posts and responding by hiding their own film pot behind their own nondescript post. Quote Link to comment
+-CJ- Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Maybe not a special cache type but an attribute? Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Maybe not a special cache type but an attribute? Haven't seen one in awhile, wondering if there's any cache pages still have that GCRM truck icon on 'em. Most I've seen were archived when the icon was spotted (usually a note to Reviewer from another). I don't believe an attribute essentially the same would be approved on this site. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Sorry, in case someone doesn't remember, GCRM. An idea that may have meant to help, but became an excuse not to do maintenance at all by lazy COs. Edited January 10, 2014 by cerberus1 Quote Link to comment
+TeamRabbitRun Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So what happens when cachers pick up supplies at the beginning of the PT and carry them all along in their bags until they get to the other end? What happens is that they get home and say "Hey! I still have all this stuff!" Unless the PT ends at the first cache, AND the well-intentioned cacher remembers to replace everything, it all goes home with someone. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Maybe not a special cache type but an attribute? Placing substandard containers and asking others to care for them? There is already a special cache type for that. Archived. Quote Link to comment
nostra-dumass Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I refuse to be a crappy cacher enabler. If your good quality cache (decent container, interesting location) needs help due to circumstances unrelated to it's being crappy in the first place, I will help out. Generally, I have the supplies with me, so I don't need to seek out a 'Maintenance tool box' cache to obtain them. OTOH, I'm not going to help maintain your series/powertrail because you can't/won't do it yourself. Quote Link to comment
nostra-dumass Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Maybe not a special cache type but an attribute? Placing substandard containers and asking others to care for them? There is already a special cache type for that. Archived. AMEN! Quote Link to comment
+-CJ- Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Placing substandard containers and asking others to care for them? No. I was thinking about the idea which can still be seen in the very first post. It was different from what you're talking about. There are too many words about poorly maintained caches and lazy COs around here. Quote Link to comment
+Dogmeat* Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think it's an awesome idea. Maybe not a cache type, but an awesome idea still. I'm going to start making up swag with the "needs maintenance" logo on baggies and leaving them in caches for people to take and keep on them. It's not about enabling poor caches, it's about helping out in the community. OP, make the cache I think it's great. You could have the best idea in the world that would appeal to absolutely everyone involved with geocaching, but if you post it on these boards people are just going to moan about it whether they agree or not. I'm not okay with people placing throw down containers. I'm completely okay with someone adding new paper when my logs are full or new pens when my pens die. It saves me time, and I'm thankful for it. I recently did a puzzle cache that consisted of a bunch of caches throughout the woods. Great time had by all, but it's been there since like 2005 or so, and wasn't completed since 2009 until we got there. Each cache had a new math problem we had to solve and it was hard to make out sometimes not because the cache was wet, but because it was old. The containers were all fine. So, leaving the original in there, I made a new card in a new baggie with the problems written up more clearly for the next people to find it. It's just helping out the next finder and the CO themselves. I think it's good cacher etiquette, and should be practiced whenever possible. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 When I saw this thread first thing that came to mind was the box at a local walking trail head with the doggie-doo bags to pick up after your pooch with. Quote Link to comment
+TriciaG Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I recently did a puzzle cache that consisted of a bunch of caches throughout the woods. Great time had by all, but it's been there since like 2005 or so, and wasn't completed since 2009 until we got there. Each cache had a new math problem we had to solve and it was hard to make out sometimes not because the cache was wet, but because it was old. The containers were all fine. So, leaving the original in there, I made a new card in a new baggie with the problems written up more clearly for the next people to find it. It's just helping out the next finder and the CO themselves. I think it's good cacher etiquette, and should be practiced whenever possible. Why hasn't the CO maintained it? Is an annual visit to check on it and replace the math problems too much to ask? Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss helping with minor maintenance issues, with cachers stating that they carry supplies for just that purpose. So... are we having an issue with the OP's idea because he is planning a "power trail"? What if he places a lone cache up the mountain and stocks it with a baggie of paper towels and extra log sheets? If it was wet inside would you refuse to dry it out? I didn't stalk the 0P's profile so I don't know his hiding history, but I'm not going to start with the assumption that he's a lazy cache owner determined to line six miles of sewage ditch with whatever lidded container he found in his junk drawer. In my area, we have a hider who puts out some very nice series on hiking / biking trails with a fun variety of containers and I would be happy to help him out if any of his caches needed some TLC. (which sometimes a cache does because there seems to be a stream of people opening and closing it in all types of weather for some strange reason!) My point is: COMMUNITY You don't HAVE to help. I think it's a step in the right direction -away from the sense of entitlement that some fear is a growing problem in the game- for a CO to think ahead and make provisions. Still gets my support until proven otherwise. I agree here....COMMUNITY is the key word. Supplies , however, don't need to be provided. I just received some supplies, one large bag of 0-rings for bisons and one for match safes. I also carry hundreds of logs in ziplocks in my truck ( we probably have replaced a thousand or so in the field ).....I also carry a large assortment of containers for replacing damaged ones , rags for drying, etc. If everyone pitched in it would improve the game. We've had this discussion before. I see no problem with helping out, but I think that you need to be familiar with the history of the cache and that of the hider, especially if you are traveling. Some caches simply have completed their life cycle. It drives me crazy when some power cacher from out of town shows up and revives a cache that has out lived itself, has an inactive CO, and the reviewer was planning on archiving in a week. I've seen three such local caches go through this cycle. In each case, the CO was only in the game for a short time, placed an inferior container and "helpers" continued to replace the containers with inferior containers. I know that you have made it clear that when you replace a container, you do so with a good quality one, which I think only prolongs the problem for a longer time. The CO isn't coming back to GZ and you are not either, so why not just log your find, document the maintenance issues and let the cache die? There are some players who honestly believe that more = better, regardless of quality. You can often locate these folks in the forums by looking for key phrases, such as, "...and that means more caches for us to find..." Hopefully, this notion will pass out of popularity, in time, but given the advent of power trails, I won't hold my breath. Quote Link to comment
+Dogmeat* Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Why hasn't the CO maintained it? Is an annual visit to check on it and replace the math problems too much to ask? Some people have full time jobs. The CO in this case not only has a full time job, but that full time job causes him to travel and relocate often. These days, he isn't here through half of the year. When he placed it, he was here all year long. No one logged that it needed maintenance, so in his short time here he maintained the other caches he has around the wide area. I fixed it up, let him know, and when he's back he's going to go through and fix the entire trail. If that's something to complain about, some of you need to relax. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Why hasn't the CO maintained it? Is an annual visit to check on it and replace the math problems too much to ask? Some people have full time jobs. The CO in this case not only has a full time job, but that full time job causes him to travel and relocate often. These days, he isn't here through half of the year. When he placed it, he was here all year long. No one logged that it needed maintenance, so in his short time here he maintained the other caches he has around the wide area. I fixed it up, let him know, and when he's back he's going to go through and fix the entire trail. If that's something to complain about, some of you need to relax. When posting a cache one agrees to the guidelines regarding maintenance which state "You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache". Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 There are some players who honestly believe that more = better, regardless of quality. You can often locate these folks in the forums by looking for key phrases, such as, "...and that means more caches for us to find..." Hopefully, this notion will pass out of popularity, in time, but given the advent of power trails, I won't hold my breath. The thing is if the original cache is archived the spot opens up for a new cache to be placed, which truly does mean "more caches for us to find". You found the cache, now you get to find the replacement. Chances are it's still a wet film pot behind the same sign as the old wet film pot. Quote Link to comment
+Dogmeat* Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why hasn't the CO maintained it? Is an annual visit to check on it and replace the math problems too much to ask? Some people have full time jobs. The CO in this case not only has a full time job, but that full time job causes him to travel and relocate often. These days, he isn't here through half of the year. When he placed it, he was here all year long. No one logged that it needed maintenance, so in his short time here he maintained the other caches he has around the wide area. I fixed it up, let him know, and when he's back he's going to go through and fix the entire trail. If that's something to complain about, some of you need to relax. When posting a cache one agrees to the guidelines regarding maintenance which state "You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache". Neat. I gave him even more time by helping him out. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Placing substandard containers and asking others to care for them? There is a special cache type for that. Archived. No. I was thinking about the idea which can still be seen in the very first post. It was different from what you're talking about. There are too many words about poorly maintained caches and lazy COs around here. That's rather proportional to the amount of wet containers. I estimate a good 10- 20% may need maintenance at any given time. Usually new cachers get rather enthusiastic about saving and fixing these, until they start finding many more. The only thing that works is archival and education. Film cans and Alroids tins were popular at one time around here. After finding many laden wirh mildew, I suppose many realized they were bad ideas outside of Texas and Arizona. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.