New cache notification with cache owner

[+TheKickers]

Hi,

 

I am using the (premium) new cache notification email. From the beginning, I was wondering why the notification email contains the name and profile link for the reviewer, who published the cache, but does not contain the name and profile link to the one who has created and hidden the cache in the first place.

Isn't the author of the cache important at least as the reviewer ;-)?

 

Can this be fixed, please? Thank you.

[Colorado Bear]

To me this seems redundant. All you have to do is use the link to take you to the cache page and you will have access to the name of the cache owner and by following that you can get to their profile.

 

Jay

Edited December 30, 2013 by Colorado Bear

[+palmetto]

While I agree that the current set up seems a bit odd, in at that most people only set Publish notifications, and aren't looking for the reviewer profile link over and over, in a Publish notification, you do get a link to the cache. It's not a bug.

 

The notification you've set up is for Publish logs. Those logs are by a reviewer.

 

All notifications are for log types, all notifications include a link to the person posting the log. You can set all the following notifications: Didn't find it, Retract Listing, Write note, Temporarily Disable Listing, Archive, Enable Listing, Needs Archived, Needs Maintenance, Webcam Photo Taken, Owner Maintenance, Unarchive, Post Reviewer Note, Publish Listing

 

I have notifications set for other log types. I want that profile link.

 

You're asking for special rules for some notifications, which would be a complication to the current system.

[+TheKickers]

While I agree that the current set up seems a bit odd, in at that most people only set Publish notifications, and aren't looking for the reviewer profile link over and over, in a Publish notification, you do get a link to the cache. It's not a bug.

 

The notification you've set up is for Publish logs. Those logs are by a reviewer.

 

All notifications are for log types, all notifications include a link to the person posting the log. You can set all the following notifications: Didn't find it, Retract Listing, Write note, Temporarily Disable Listing, Archive, Enable Listing, Needs Archived, Needs Maintenance, Webcam Photo Taken, Owner Maintenance, Unarchive, Post Reviewer Note, Publish Listing

 

I have notifications set for other log types. I want that profile link.

 

You're asking for special rules for some notifications, which would be a complication to the current system.

 

You are right that from this point of view, it may complicate things. But that brings me to my other itch I would like to scratch ;-). The current way the notifications are set-up is already complicated, and in my opinion, very strange. Why can I subscribe only to notifications by cache type? I do not care if the newly published cache is a mystery or regular. Why do I need to choose cache type for log notifications? Does not make sense.

 

First, and the most basic use case for this feature is: I want to know about new caches in my vicinity. That's the reason to use notifications for over 90% of users, I would guess. How to set it up at this time? Add 10!!! rules to get notification about most of new cache placements.

Now I am interested in caches from some of my friends, or people I know are making fabulous caches. How can I do it now? Again, add multiple rules to get new notifications for all caches, and then open cache details for every notification received (which can easily be several dozens a day) to check for the owner. Nice, eh?

 

And I am not even starting about having notifications based on difficulty, terrain, attributes... Can't we have the pocket query form "duplicated" for notifications? That would make my (and surely not just my) day...

[+palmetto]

The current way the notifications are set-up is already complicated, and in my opinion, very strange. Why can I subscribe only to notifications by cache type?

 

I agree, at least it would be nice to have a pull down box and select multiple types at once.

I assume most cachers would select all, or at least many at one go...

 

 

And I am not even starting about having notifications based on difficulty, terrain, attributes... Can't we have the pocket query form "duplicated" for notifications? That would make my (and surely not just my) day...

 

Well, now you're talking about serious server hits.

Set up a PQ with the parameters you're interested in (or several different such PQs), check Placed During the last week (or the last few days, but that requires adjusting each time) and preview often. There was a time before notifications ;-) and this was the SOP.

[+TheKickers]

And I am not even starting about having notifications based on difficulty, terrain, attributes... Can't we have the pocket query form "duplicated" for notifications? That would make my (and surely not just my) day...

 

Well, now you're talking about serious server hits.

Set up a PQ with the parameters you're interested in (or several different such PQs), check Placed During the last week (or the last few days, but that requires adjusting each time) and preview often. There was a time before notifications ;-) and this was the SOP.

 

Not sure I understand here. Now I am getting notification for every newly published cache in the vicinity of a point I specified. What is the difference to getting the same sort of notifications, now filtered by e.g. difficulty? With the exception that it will be less notifications in total, I don't see any significant difference in processing...

 

I am not saying it should be implemented using PQ. That would be insane, and I can see why it was causing problems when people abused PQ for this. I am asking merely for better filtering options for notifications. I think PQ creation page is a good example how this could look like, but the underlying mechanism would have to be different of course.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I agree. We've asked for this before. All we ask is the COs name in the email. Would save alot of people going to the cache page.

[+Kryten]

It would be great to know in advance if the cache has been placed by someone whose handiwork is best avoided but nfortunately this type of negative functionality is disliked by the powers that be and is unlikely to be implemented. The current system is designed to encourage site visits and they want to keep it that way.

[+irisisleuk]

It would be great to know in advance if the cache has been placed by someone whose handiwork is best avoided but nfortunately this type of negative functionality is disliked by the powers that be and is unlikely to be implemented. The current system is designed to encourage site visits and they want to keep it that way.

 

Oh, that's funny, with me it is the complete opposite use of the notification mail. Now I seldom click the link in the notification unless the title of the cache makes me curious right away. But if the CO would be in the notification I would use the link more often. If I know the CO personally, or from some CO's I know their caches are always interesting, I would definitely immediately take a look. Now I only use the notification mail link when I was informed by them that a cache is going to be published soon.

[+cerberus1]

The notification as-is has no real purpose for me (besides being mostly C&Ds).

As others, I've asked for at least the CO's name included.

- If that's a band-width or whatever problem, remove the Reviewers name and replace it with the CO's.

Local CO would provide me with more info than a Reviewer's name who's 200+ miles away. My Reviewers are on the other side of the State.

[+cerberus1]

It would be great to know in advance if the cache has been placed by someone whose handiwork is best avoided but nfortunately this type of negative functionality is disliked by the powers that be and is unlikely to be implemented. The current system is designed to encourage site visits and they want to keep it that way.

Why does it have to be the negative?

I'd like to know who the COs are, knowing who puts out awesome hides, not who to avoid.

Granted, the way the system is now, I'd need to click on a dozen or so caches at a clip to find they're ones I wouldn't think of doing.

Just having the Co's name would show me ones I would, often without question.

Many times I've given up my weekend plans and started anew with a last-minute notification, just by who the CO is.

 

Some may argue it's separating the wheat from the chaff, but not knowing a CO, their styles, or attention to the hobby, I can attempt them later.

- Maybe they'd be added to my "Awesome CO" list too.

[Moun10Bike]

The reason this feature functions this way is due to the way it was initially set up. It keys off the posting of a log. Since the reviewer is the one posting the publish log, it includes a link to their profile. It would require special-casing (and additional server hits) to make the current system work in the way that people are requesting in this thread. Hopefully one day we will be able to overhaul the current system into one that is more streamlined and provides more useful information to people. Such an overhaul is not currently in the plans, though.

[+cerberus1]

Thanks for the explanation.

[+Beach_hut]

The reason this feature functions this way is due to the way it was initially set up. It keys off the posting of a log. Since the reviewer is the one posting the publish log, it includes a link to their profile. It would require special-casing (and additional server hits) to make the current system work in the way that people are requesting in this thread. Hopefully one day we will be able to overhaul the current system into one that is more streamlined and provides more useful information to people. Such an overhaul is not currently in the plans, though.

 

Thanks for the insight. Would it be less of a complication to have two profile links in every notification (not just publish): one for the logger and one for the owner of the listing in question?

 

I realise this would give people more info than they probably need, and in some cases those two profile links would be the same, but a one size fits all approach might be a compromise way of achieving what's being asked for without too much system overhead?

[Moun10Bike]

Thanks for the insight. Would it be less of a complication to have two profile links in every notification (not just publish): one for the logger and one for the owner of the listing in question?

 

Unfortunately, that would add an additional server hit on a separate table in the database.

[+dprovan]

Instead of modifying the notication system, what might do the trick is adding the owner's name to the publication log. (Dunno if this could be done automatically or just has to be something each reviewer adds to their process.) This gives people the information they seek and has a side effect of documenting in the publication log the original owner even after the cache is later adopted.

 

The downside is that it means the owner wouldn't be delivered on subsequent log notifications, but everyone that wants this feature always seems focused on new caches, so maybe that's not a big deal.

[+NeverSummer]

Not to be a party pooper, but the notification emails you receive as a cache owner, or as someone requesting a new cache notification, provides all of the links you need to view the necessary information.

 

You can link to the cache listing, the specific publish log, etc. From there you can get the owner and Reviewer information with another click or two.

 

I may not be understanding the suggestion correctly, but that's just what I'm understanding.

Edited January 16, 2014 by NeverSummer

[+dprovan]

You can link to the cache listing, the specific publish log, etc. From there you can get the owner and Reviewer information with another click or two.

The observation is that you do, in fact, have to follow the link. The suggestion is that the owner's handle just be there in the e-mail just like the cache name and distance are. In addition to being just generally convenient, it would be very useful for people that browse on a computer other than the one they read their mail, since, as has been explained, they'd use the owner to help decide whether it was worth going somewhere else to look at the cache in more detail.

[+NeverSummer]

Depending on how the system queries for the email notification, you're essentially asking for the email to populate blanks in a form.

 

[XXX] Owner/Watchlist/Notification ______ Posted a _____ log for ______ cache "__________" by _________

 

Every single notification email would be formatted that way. And, I'm pretty sure that's also how the subject line appears. (I'd have to double check)

 

Then the body of the email would have the link for each.

 

It's late. I'd have to go check deep in some email folders...not too often caches get published in my area...

[+two bison]

I couldn't care less who the owner of a new listing is. The main reason I used to have immediate notifications enabled was to rush out to try to get an FTF. The owner of the cache, in that situation, is irrelevant.

[+J Grouchy]

I just wish we could get in-app notifications instead of emails.

Notifications, three columns of check boxes:

Email, SMS, App...check the notifications you want.

 

But I digress...

 

~sigh~

[+dprovan]

Depending on how the system queries for the email notification, you're essentially asking for the email to populate blanks in a form.

 

[XXX] Owner/Watchlist/Notification ______ Posted a _____ log for ______ cache "__________" by _________

Well, I'm not asking for it, but that's what's being asked for, yes. I agree it would be nice, and I do sometimes miss it being there, but I concede that it's not that important if it's hard to implement.

[+NeverSummer]

Depending on how the system queries for the email notification, you're essentially asking for the email to populate blanks in a form.

 

[XXX] Owner/Watchlist/Notification ______ Posted a _____ log for ______ cache "__________" by _________

Well, I'm not asking for it, but that's what's being asked for, yes. I agree it would be nice, and I do sometimes miss it being there, but I concede that it's not that important if it's hard to implement.

lol It's not always about you!

 

That was directed toward the OP, but using your clarification.

[+NeverSummer]

I couldn't care less who the owner of a new listing is. The main reason I used to have immediate notifications enabled was to rush out to try to get an FTF. The owner of the cache, in that situation, is irrelevant.

That's where I'm having trouble with the suggestion.

 

If one is not rushing out for a FTF, they certainly have the time for a couple of clicks to find out the owner...

 

But to get that in the notification email would be nice, yes.

 

It's a little more troubling to me, personally, if someone is having a hard time with a local cacher and doesn't want to be bothered to shoot for a FTF on their cache. Notifications are, for me, something to let me know ASAP that a cache has been published and I can try to be first on scene. I don't care much whose cache it is in that case.

 

If I'm just kicking back and hanging out, and a notification comes in where I'm not going to rush out the door, I don't see how a couple of clicks are that aggrivating.

 

That said, if it is a simple grab and code for the email subject to include the "blanks" as I showed them, that's great. If it isn't a simple change, I don't see this getting much focus from the programmers.

[+dprovan]

That's where I'm having trouble with the suggestion.

 

If one is not rushing out for a FTF, they certainly have the time for a couple of clicks to find out the owner...

The same thing could be said about the cache name and the distance and the direction. Why include them since you can just go to the cache page? The people asking for this information consider the cache owner as important as those pieces of information.

[+NeverSummer]

That's where I'm having trouble with the suggestion.

 

If one is not rushing out for a FTF, they certainly have the time for a couple of clicks to find out the owner...

The same thing could be said about the cache name and the distance and the direction. Why include them since you can just go to the cache page? The people asking for this information consider the cache owner as important as those pieces of information.

I'm sorry...it's been a while since I've seen a new cache notification...The notifications tell you the distance and direction? I know they tell you the cache name...but distance and direction now?

 

I don't remember that. And, if it is just a suggestion to include those items as well, see the above quote.

 

Can't you just upload the coords to your GPS and hit "Go To"? Or, click the link, open in your smartphone app, and select "Navigate"? That will tell you distance and direction, all while you're on your way to the new cache!

[+the Seagnoid]

The email is, as was said earlier, just an email of the log. I agree with the original request, I would like to see the cache owner. This is easily fixed, but does have side affects. I realise that treating publish logs differently is a bit clumsy.

 

The solution is to add the cache owner name to emailed logs. The main side affect is that found logs will tell me that someone found my cache x, which is owned by me - rather redundant I know it is my cache. However it may also help others who have watches on caches.

 

If we can tolerate having the owner stated on find logs that are emailed to the owner, then this problem with publish logs will also be solved.

 

Tom

Edited January 17, 2014 by the Seagnoid

[+dprovan]

I'm sorry...it's been a while since I've seen a new cache notification...The notifications tell you the distance and direction? I know they tell you the cache name...but distance and direction now?

For GC4VBP5: SiRFGPScache (Traditional Cache)

Location: California, United States

18.2mi S (29.4km S)

Krypton published SiRFGPScache (Traditional Cache) at 1/15/2014

 

Log Date: 1/15/2014

Published

 

Visit this log entry at the below address:

http://coord.info/GLD5HE39

 

Visit Traditional Cache

SiRFGPScache:

http://coord.info/GC4VBP5

 

Profile for Krypton:

http://coord.info/PRQM53

 

Notification for New Caches:

http://www.geocaching.com/notify/edit.aspx?NID=311779

 

Can't you just upload the coords to your GPS and hit "Go To"? Or, click the link, open in your smartphone app, and select "Navigate"? That will tell you distance and direction, all while you're on your way to the new cache!

The information is to help decide whether it's worth investigating further. Even though you think those actions are so trivial as to be unworthy of consideration, the people asking for the feature, for whatever reasons, want to avoid doing those things unless they have a good reason.

[+TheKickers]

Thanks for the insight. Would it be less of a complication to have two profile links in every notification (not just publish): one for the logger and one for the owner of the listing in question?

Unfortunately, that would add an additional server hit on a separate table in the database.

 

Hmm, you are worrying about single hit to a separate table querying cache owner, so you are suggesting instead to follow the link to get hits not only on cache owner, but also cache description, all the images, recent log entries... That does not make sense, perfrmance-wise. If only 1% of the notifications were followed through as you suggest, then if the page load was 100-times more complex, you are getting the same DB-server load (not speaking about web server etc.). My gut feeling is that the page load is way more complex, so I think this could even SAVE you some load and traffic...

 

The information is to help decide whether it's worth investigating further. Even though you think those actions are so trivial as to be unworthy of consideration, the people asking for the feature, for whatever reasons, want to avoid doing those things unless they have a good reason.

 

Exactly. E.g. I have emails in my phone, so I can check for notifications whenever I want/have time. Even on subway, without mobile data signal. But I can't follow the link without online connection. Also, I live in quite GC-busy area, so I am getting quite a number of notifications. I can't be bothered to click them all through, so I check just the one which catch my attention by name or distance. I have already missed few caches made by people doing caches which are always worth visiting, but which are made available just for limited time.

Edited January 17, 2014 by TheKickers

[+NeverSummer]

 

The information is to help decide whether it's worth investigating further. Even though you think those actions are so trivial as to be unworthy of consideration, the people asking for the feature, for whatever reasons, want to avoid doing those things unless they have a good reason.

 

Exactly. E.g. I have emails in my phone, so I can check for notifications whenever I want/have time. Even on subway, without mobile data signal. But I can't follow the link without online connection. Also, I live in quite GC-busy area, so I am getting quite a number of notifications. I can't be bothered to click them all through, so I check just the one which catch my attention by name or distance. I have already missed few caches made by people doing caches which are always worth visiting, but which are made available just for limited time.

I was with you...right up to the end. Then I got distracted.

 

If a cache is put out, you can always go find it--even if you aren't FTF or even STF.

 

And, there is a Geocache Permanence guideline. If a cache is placed deliberately to be taken away after a limited time, it is against the guidelines. Sounds like a NA and email to the Reviewer to inquire how they keep getting published is in order.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I couldn't care less who the owner of a new listing is. The main reason I used to have immediate notifications enabled was to rush out to try to get an FTF. The owner of the cache, in that situation, is irrelevant.

 

You forgot to include a smiley face emoticon...wait, you're serious?

[+TheKickers]

And, there is a Geocache Permanence guideline. If a cache is placed deliberately to be taken away after a limited time, it is against the guidelines. Sounds like a NA and email to the Reviewer to inquire how they keep getting published is in order.

 

The guideline explicitly mentions 3-month limit. I still consider a cache existing for e.g. 4 months as for limited time though...

[+NeverSummer]

And, there is a Geocache Permanence guideline. If a cache is placed deliberately to be taken away after a limited time, it is against the guidelines. Sounds like a NA and email to the Reviewer to inquire how they keep getting published is in order.

 

The guideline explicitly mentions 3-month limit. I still consider a cache existing for e.g. 4 months as for limited time though...

First, 4 months, and you still can't get around to it?

 

Second, that just means that if its purpose is to be less than 3 months, it won't be published. If a cacher gets to be known for publishing caches that are deliberately created and archived at 3 months and 1 day, I'm going to guess that they'll begin to hear about it. The guideline says far more than the part you cherry picked...

[+TheKickers]

First, 4 months, and you still can't get around to it?

 

I used 4 months as an example only, do not nit-pick on this, please. And yes, it did happen to me that I haven't checked that particular cache owner for more than four months to see if he had created something new. That happens to me, I am quite busy with real life... That's one of the reasons what notifications were created for, so you don't have to check manually every so often, right?

 

Second, that just means that if its purpose is to be less than 3 months, it won't be published. If a cacher gets to be known for publishing caches that are deliberately created and archived at 3 months and 1 day, I'm going to guess that they'll begin to hear about it. The guideline says far more than the part you cherry picked...

 

It's not my cache, it's not my decision, so complain to someone else. Sorry, but this is completely off topic.

Edited January 20, 2014 by TheKickers

[+NeverSummer]

First, 4 months, and you still can't get around to it?

 

I used 4 months as an example only, do not nit-pick on this, please. And yes, it did happen to me that I haven't checked that particular cache owner for more than four months to see if he had created something new. That happens to me, I am quite busy with real life... That's one of the reasons what notifications were created for, so you don't have to check manually every so often, right?

 

Second, that just means that if its purpose is to be less than 3 months, it won't be published. If a cacher gets to be known for publishing caches that are deliberately created and archived at 3 months and 1 day, I'm going to guess that they'll begin to hear about it. The guideline says far more than the part you cherry picked...

 

It's not my cache, it's not my decision, so complain to someone else. Sorry, but this is completely off topic.

Except it's not off topic. You've brought light to why you want this feature as related to how permanent a certain cacher's caches are, and I'm giving you the context of the guidelines about Cache Permanence.

 

I have a "real life" too, yet I can click a couple of extra times from a notification to find the cache owner, put them on a watchlist or bookmark, and then go on my merry way. If your goal isn't a FTF race, then I think you'll be ok to take the time to click and bookmark/watch the listings. That way you don't just get a notification of publish, but also a notification of every log including disable and archive. Then you'll know when your favorite cacher/caches are going away or are gone.

 

Remember, you don't have to find every cache. If you really want to find every cache by an owner, get in the habit of checking their profile once a day/month/year and adding their caches to a bookmark or watchlist. That way their caches are always in one very simple query.

 

That, or you could set up a PQ to give you the caches posted within a timeframe on a weekly basis. Then you have a current list that you can open (either loaded on your GPS-enabled device, or quicklink to the query results) and see the caches, and their information--including whose cache it is--right from a page of results. Bookmark/watchlist the ones you want from the query, and go on your merry way finding them at your leisure.

 

I'm sorry that you think I'm picking nits, but you did mention "4 months" and didn't make it clear that it was "an example only".

 

Notifications were created, if memory serves, as a way to be notified immediately of certain log types. That includes "Publish" listings, because that was one of the features PMs wanted to have to aid in their FTF attempts. It was an early feature for PMs, and used (in my area at least) almost exclusively for FTF runs.