Any way to stop someone from terrorizing my cache?

[mocrash]

 

Ok, I'm relaxing. I'm still not convinced there is a problem yet, but you could be right. Given that the TB hotel is in a lone tree, on commercial property a few feet from traffic, there may be someone watching it, as geocachers in that area would be mighty conspicuous. A good TB hotel would be close to a main road, but cachers should not be visible from the street.

 

I hope you're right. I'll give it a week and keep you guys posted.

[+WarNinjas]

I have to admit I was just one of those cachers who didn't log the taking to some TB's for a few weeks. We don't usually move them anymore but we are taking a road trip and thought we would take some along. The reason I didn't log them right away was that in the program I use it has them listed as visited. I have to uncheck each one at each cache I log. I know it is lazy but didn't want to do it. I did leave a log on the cache that I took them. Now they are logged and hopefully moving a few states. I would be happy if the people of our TB's would ever log them.

[+ChileHead]

Travel bug hotels are the primary reason I've stopped playing the TB side game. I don't pick them up, or place new ones. So many TBs have gone missing because of TB hotels. A TB hotel acts more like a prison, as if people do leave trackables there, they are likely to stay there longer than in another cache because there are so many to pick from. Additionally, when a cache goes missing - and many do over their life time - they will take down with them a number of bugs.

 

In years past, when I came across a TB hotel I would liberate ALL the bugs in the hotel and move them to other caches.

[+Manville Possum]

Travel bug hotels are the primary reason I've stopped playing the TB side game. I don't pick them up, or place new ones. So many TBs have gone missing because of TB hotels. A TB hotel acts more like a prison, as if people do leave trackables there, they are likely to stay there longer than in another cache because there are so many to pick from. Additionally, when a cache goes missing - and many do over their life time - they will take down with them a number of bugs.

 

In years past, when I came across a TB hotel I would liberate ALL the bugs in the hotel and move them to other caches.

I too no longer play the TB side of the game. At over $10 each and more than a dozen missing I gave up. I also keep a watch list, and most of the 100 or so I have logged are MIA.

[+kunarion]

Okay, so, based on the suggestions from you guys, it appears that my best options are:

1. Wait a few weeks and hope I'm wrong about the last couple TBs that went missing

2. Make the cache premium only and remove the word "TB" from the name

3. Temporarily archive and hope the terrorist moves on.

4. Downsize or disable

 

What do you guys think about posting a log on the cache basically telling the terrorist that tb's are not collectibles, that if he is planning on moving them, he needs to log them, that if he is keeping them, he is stealing and ruining the game for everyone else and that all that is going to happen is that he is going to force me to archive the cache so no one else loses their TBs? Any chance it's ignorance and I can solve it that way? My gut says no, but that would be an ideal solution if it worked.

Ensure there's enough info on the cache page to allow cachers to make an appropriate decision about leaving a TB. Leave it at that. And don't drop TBs where you think there's a problem.

Edited December 28, 2013 by kunarion

[team tisri]

Change the cache to a Mystery cache, put a combo lock on the cache and put a simple puzzle on the page to get the combo.. If it's muggles they won't bother it anymore, if it's a cacher outside of the game camera or a GPS tracker on a TB not much you can do.

 

Won't make a lot of difference to anyone with access to the page who can solve a simple puzzle.

 

If TBs are disappearing right after being logged in then it's probably a cacher taking them. If the cacher can solve the puzzle all it means is that they take a little longer to steal the bugs each time. The combination can't be changing every week since it's quite common for people to solve a puzzle and go to retrieve it some time later.

[Clan Riffster]

As mentioned in another thread, I am a horrible TB host. I love moving these guys around, and I am always excited to see a bug in a cache. Always with the best intentions for moving them rapidly along, I snag the bugs, (logging that I have them, of course), and at that point I hit a huge fail. I drop them in my backpack, and promptly forget about them. Doh! A few days, a few weeks, sometimes a few months later, I'll find the poor little bug in my bag, and drop it in a cache. In my case, a nastygram from a Tab owner would likely be perfectly justified. Thankfully, I haven't received any yet.

[+Ambrosia]

As mentioned in another thread, I am a horrible TB host. I love moving these guys around, and I am always excited to see a bug in a cache. Always with the best intentions for moving them rapidly along, I snag the bugs, (logging that I have them, of course), and at that point I hit a huge fail. I drop them in my backpack, and promptly forget about them. Doh! A few days, a few weeks, sometimes a few months later, I'll find the poor little bug in my bag, and drop it in a cache. In my case, a nastygram from a Tab owner would likely be perfectly justified. Thankfully, I haven't received any yet.

I'm exactly the same way, unfortunately. I try not to take trackables, because I know this, but I keep caving. Each time I think, "maybe this time I'll be better!". I, on the other hand, have received an owner email a time or two. Although they've always been polite.

 

BTW - I got the trackables from the truck that I hadn't logged yet, and finally went online and retrieved them from the cache. Almost two weeks late. I think that's the longest I've waited to log trackables. I found them on the 16th, didn't have internet until we came home on the 18th, and then left them in the truck. So this thread was good for something.

[+wmpastor]

Agreed. If you take a trackable, you should log it right away.

IMHO, there are very few things in geocaching that need to be logged online "right away". An angry land owner who wants the geocache and the geocachers gone? Sure, I'll log the NA right away. Serious problems with the cache (e.g., it broke and I took the pieces home with me)? Sure, I'll log the NM right away. But Finds, DNFs, FTFs, TB movement, Notes, etc.? No, I log them when convenient.

Just to clarify, when I said 'right away', I mean 'same day'. Not sure what your definition, but if you wait longer than that, be aware that someone might go looking for it and be disappointed.

As I said, I log routine stuff (including Finds, which includes FTFs and retrieving/dropping TBs) when convenient. Sometimes that's the same day. Usually, it's the same week. Sometimes, it's longer than a week.

 

When I go on a week-long camping trip, it usually takes me at least a few days to settle in once I get home. The logs for any geocaching I did at the beginning of the trip can wait. My field notes and photos will be there when I finally get a chance to log everything online.

Since you're busier than I am, I'd suggest a "placeholder" post ("found, more later") for when timeliness matters. It matters with ftf's and with tb's. Not logging a tb for a couple of weeks potentially produces major inconvenience.

[+wmpastor]

Travel bug hotels are the primary reason I've stopped playing the TB side game. I don't pick them up, or place new ones. So many TBs have gone missing because of TB hotels. A TB hotel acts more like a prison, as if people do leave trackables there, they are likely to stay there longer than in another cache because there are so many to pick from. Additionally, when a cache goes missing - and many do over their life time - they will take down with them a number of bugs.

 

In years past, when I came across a TB hotel I would liberate ALL the bugs in the hotel and move them to other caches.

I too no longer play the TB side of the game. At over $10 each and more than a dozen missing I gave up. I also keep a watch list, and most of the 100 or so I have logged are MIA.

What does MIA mean? Someone said there's a thread on that?

 

[+niraD]

Since you're busier than I am, I'd suggest a "placeholder" post ("found, more later") for when timeliness matters. It matters with ftf's and with tb's. Not logging a tb for a couple of weeks potentially produces major inconvenience.

Really? A major inconvenience?

 

Even when I logged one of my FTFs as soon as possible—later that same day—four other people had already logged their Finds before I logged mine. I don't see how that (unavoidable) delay was a major inconvenience to anyone. I don't see how it would have been a major inconvenience even if I had waited a few days. And it hasn't been a major inconvenience when I've had to wait a few days for others to log TB movements either.

[+Don_J]

Agreed. If you take a trackable, you should log it right away.

IMHO, there are very few things in geocaching that need to be logged online "right away". An angry land owner who wants the geocache and the geocachers gone? Sure, I'll log the NA right away. Serious problems with the cache (e.g., it broke and I took the pieces home with me)? Sure, I'll log the NM right away. But Finds, DNFs, FTFs, TB movement, Notes, etc.? No, I log them when convenient.

 

I log finds and DNFs when convenient, but I try to log TB movements ASAP. That may be several hours or several days. The idea of grabbing a TB and not logging the fact until you drop it is not the way that it's supposed to work. I've moved 485 trackables and have never been contacted by a single owner. despite holding onto some of them for longer than I intended.

[+-CJ-]

Having looked through the previous messages I wonder if everyone is convinced that trackables from a TB hotel are surely stolen by a registered geocaching.com user? Could it be just some local kids who noticed the nice box regularly filled with souvenirs? (Remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?) In situation like that I would move the cache to a new location ASAP and see if it works. Change not only the place but your manner of hiding. See if it works.

[+Don_J]

 

The problem is with the last five in a row, all gone with no trace.

 

 

Was there a log for them being dropped off into the cache? If so, you should be able to look at the "View Past Trackable" link (right side of cache listing page) and see where they are now. As others have mentioned, almost all travelers that were logged in to the cache appear to have been logged out of the cache.

 

Are the two geocoins listed as being in the cache not there? As someone mentioned, it could be the finder who grabbed them hasn't had a chance to log them due to their being on vacation in the area.

Yeah, they were logged in. Then vanished. They were still listed in my cache until I marked them missing. Now they are listed as unknown.

 

BZZZT. Wrong answer. The 2 coins are still listed in the inventory, and are the ones that you dropped off on 12/23. I have no idea why you would do that if someone is terrorizing your cache. Also, there are only a grand total of 3 trackables missing from your cache. Here is the history. Look it over carefully.

 

Wow. Put that buzzer away. I'm not sure what you're objecting to here. Yes, several TBs have passed safely through my cache. Until 11-30. Since then, five TBs in a row have gone missing, all vanishing within a day or two of being placed with nothing else being taken from the cache. I haven't marked the last two as missing yet, so the history will show three listed as missing. And yes, I dropped off the last two myself on 12/23 before I recognized what was going on. Once the same thing happened to them, I saw the pattern and I came on here to try to figure out how to solve the problem before any more were stolen.

 

BZZZZT. Wrong answer again. You marked the 3 trackables as missing on 12/2 with a note that someone was collecting them and indicated a problem back then. Three weeks later on 12/23 you visited the cache and dropped 2 coins into it. You are now saying that you revisited the caches since then and discovered the new ones gone? That's a bit quick, the person likely hasn't logged their find yet.

 

Relax, man. I'm not sure why you're so determined to prove that I'm wrong here, unless you're just one of those guys who likes arguing on the internet to try to prove how smart you are. The worst I'm being is impatient, and that has been pointed out to me already in a much less confrontational manner. If that's the case, we don't know if I'm right or wrong about the second incident. I hope I AM wrong about it. But I'm definitely not wrong about the history of the cache. Yes, on 12/2 I recognized an incident. An incident, not a pattern. And yes, I placed more trackables in the cache roughly three weeks later. And yes, I've revisited the cache since placing the last two coins or I would have no way of knowing they vanished right away. And yes, it is possible someone on vacation grabbed them, didn't log anything, and will log them next week when they get home.

 

So, let's put this in perspective here. I think someone is watching my cache and taking trackables from it as soon as they are placed. I'm not putting together a posse to go have an old fashioned hangin'. I came onto a discussion forum to seek advice. Some cachers have offered advice or shared similar experiences and I have appreciated it. It helped me and didn't harm them. You have come on here and tried to nit pick details to show me how wrong I am and how smart you are. Well, if you think I'm wrong about everything, then just don't offer advice. Simple enough.

 

Not to sound too harsh, but it took 45 posts to get to the real details, and that was only because 4WF and others continued to question the history of the trackables that have gone through your cache. It seems that you have had two incidents where TBs have disappeared without being logged. I'd hardly call that terrorism, but I can see how you might be alarmed.

 

Do you have an TBs in your possession? On your next day off, drop them in the cache, then stake it out and see who shows up. Introduce yourself as they open the cache and then say that you can't believe that the TBs are already stolen. You better be quick though, because as you have said several times, they instantly disappear.

[+Don_J]

Agreed. If you take a trackable, you should log it right away.

IMHO, there are very few things in geocaching that need to be logged online "right away". An angry land owner who wants the geocache and the geocachers gone? Sure, I'll log the NA right away. Serious problems with the cache (e.g., it broke and I took the pieces home with me)? Sure, I'll log the NM right away. But Finds, DNFs, FTFs, TB movement, Notes, etc.? No, I log them when convenient.

Just to clarify, when I said 'right away', I mean 'same day'. Not sure what your definition, but if you wait longer than that, be aware that someone might go looking for it and be disappointed.

As I said, I log routine stuff (including Finds, which includes FTFs and retrieving/dropping TBs) when convenient. Sometimes that's the same day. Usually, it's the same week. Sometimes, it's longer than a week.

 

When I go on a week-long camping trip, it usually takes me at least a few days to settle in once I get home. The logs for any geocaching I did at the beginning of the trip can wait. My field notes and photos will be there when I finally get a chance to log everything online.

 

I feel the same way. I'm "unconnected" when on a week long camping trip, but when I get home and settled, I'll make a point to log the bugs because I know I'm several days behind and it does effect other cachers, especially if I picked up a bug and dropped further along my travels. I guess what I'm saying is that while you see two levels of priority for logging, I see a third with the TBs being in the middle.

[+Don_J]

Travel bug hotels are the primary reason I've stopped playing the TB side game. I don't pick them up, or place new ones. So many TBs have gone missing because of TB hotels. A TB hotel acts more like a prison, as if people do leave trackables there, they are likely to stay there longer than in another cache because there are so many to pick from. Additionally, when a cache goes missing - and many do over their life time - they will take down with them a number of bugs.

 

In years past, when I came across a TB hotel I would liberate ALL the bugs in the hotel and move them to other caches.

 

Worse, an undeclared TB Hotel. One of my TBs was making a decent run when it happened to land in the oldest cache in a certain Southern State. Because it's the oldest active cache, everyone thinks that they just have to leave a TB. This cache that has a long list of TBs and coins in it and every other log saying that they dropping TBs. The cache gets at least five or more finds a week and after a month someone finally said that there were no TBs in the cache. I waited another two weeks and then logged my TB as missing.

 

I personally can't stand TB Hotels, and I think that I was probably the forum member that was critical of WarNinjas's Hotel after the cache disappeared right after my coin was dropped into it. I am very happy to see that the new location has been very successful.

[+niraD]

As I said, I log routine stuff (including Finds, which includes FTFs and retrieving/dropping TBs) when convenient. Sometimes that's the same day. Usually, it's the same week. Sometimes, it's longer than a week.

 

When I go on a week-long camping trip, it usually takes me at least a few days to settle in once I get home. The logs for any geocaching I did at the beginning of the trip can wait. My field notes and photos will be there when I finally get a chance to log everything online.

I feel the same way. I'm "unconnected" when on a week long camping trip, but when I get home and settled, I'll make a point to log the bugs because I know I'm several days behind and it does effect other cachers, especially if I picked up a bug and dropped further along my travels. I guess what I'm saying is that while you see two levels of priority for logging, I see a third with the TBs being in the middle.

Actually, a three-level priority system is probably closer to the way I log as well. There have been times when I've gone weeks (or even months) before logging my field notes. That's fine for Find and Attended logs, but I wouldn't do that with TBs. Still, while I generally try to post online logs (especially TB-related online logs) as soon as it's convenient, I don't worry about logging TBs "right away" (that is, in the field using a mobile device) or even the same day if it isn't convenient. A delay of a few days in logging TBs shouldn't cause problems.

[+Don_J]

As mentioned in another thread, I am a horrible TB host. I love moving these guys around, and I am always excited to see a bug in a cache. Always with the best intentions for moving them rapidly along, I snag the bugs, (logging that I have them, of course), and at that point I hit a huge fail. I drop them in my backpack, and promptly forget about them. Doh! A few days, a few weeks, sometimes a few months later, I'll find the poor little bug in my bag, and drop it in a cache. In my case, a nastygram from a Tab owner would likely be perfectly justified. Thankfully, I haven't received any yet.

I'm exactly the same way, unfortunately. I try not to take trackables, because I know this, but I keep caving. Each time I think, "maybe this time I'll be better!". I, on the other hand, have received an owner email a time or two. Although they've always been polite.

 

BTW - I got the trackables from the truck that I hadn't logged yet, and finally went online and retrieved them from the cache. Almost two weeks late. I think that's the longest I've waited to log trackables. I found them on the 16th, didn't have internet until we came home on the 18th, and then left them in the truck. So this thread was good for something.

 

Yes, good for something. A few years ago, I found a TB, logged it into my inventory, then had no idea where it was. Three months later, I found it behind my sofa during spring cleaning. My guess is that my cat picked it up off of the coffee table, jumped on the sofa and then dropped it into in unknown cache behind my sofa. Three months, it was back there. I felt bad and got it into a cache quickly. Never heard a word from the owner. I'm curious why Fizzy attracts these whiny TB emails?

[+Don_J]

Having looked through the previous messages I wonder if everyone is convinced that trackables from a TB hotel are surely stolen by a registered geocaching.com user? Could it be just some local kids who noticed the nice box regularly filled with souvenirs? (Remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?) In situation like that I would move the cache to a new location ASAP and see if it works. Change not only the place but your manner of hiding. See if it works.

 

Reading further into this thread, it's on commercial property in a busy area. I wondering about permission, and if the landscapers that will eventually show up know not to take the cache and throw it in the trash?

[+wmpastor]

Since you're busier than I am, I'd suggest a "placeholder" post ("found, more later") for when timeliness matters. It matters with ftf's and with tb's. Not logging a tb for a couple of weeks potentially produces major inconvenience.

Really? A major inconvenience?

 

Even when I logged one of my FTFs as soon as possible—later that same day—four other people had already logged their Finds before I logged mine. I don't see how that (unavoidable) delay was a major inconvenience to anyone. I don't see how it would have been a major inconvenience even if I had waited a few days. And it hasn't been a major inconvenience when I've had to wait a few days for others to log TB movements either.

Yes. I stand by my statement & I'll explain why.

 

First, notice that I said potentially a major inconvenience. In some cases it may not affect anyone if a TB is not logged for many weeks. Unfortunately, there's no way to know that ahead of time.

 

The greatest problem is if someone picks up a TB, fails to log, & places it in another cache where it is picked up before the prior moves are logged. The finder then needs to wait to place it elsewhere (checking the history), or drop it and cause a glitch in the travel history. The second scenario is where someone in planning a trip to "x," sees that there is a TB whose goal is to travel that direction, makes a trip to the cache to pick up the TB to take with them, & it's not there. This applies equally where someone sees a TB listed in a cache and that TB is of interest for any other reason & they travel to the cache specifically to pick up the TB, which is no longer there.

Edited December 29, 2013 by wmpastor

[mocrash]

Okay, well, good news on the original topic. Everyone who had their money on "he's being impatient and it's probably just a delayed log" was right. They were finally logged out, and it appears that I was connecting two independent incidents and seeing a pattern that was just a coincidence.

 

...It seems that you have had two incidents where TBs have disappeared without being logged. I'd hardly call that terrorism, but I can see how you might be alarmed.

 

Yeah, exactly right. Two consecutive incidents where all the TBs in the cache disappeared right after being placed. The first time TBs went missing without logs, I waited a week to mark them missing and they never showed up, so I just assumed it was the same thing. Perhaps "terrorism" was a little strong, but it really felt like that at the time. As you probably noticed, I've only hidden 7 caches, and this was a first for me.

 

Thanks so much to everyone for the advice and understanding. I definitely learned a lot from this experience. For the most part, cachers around here seem to log everything pretty quickly, and I myself log trackables the same day I grab them, so it never occurred to me that some people might not. I feel the same way as wmpastor, I think. Even when I'm out of the country, as long as I have internet or cell phone access, I try to log TBs same day to avoid any problems or inconveniences. And I guess we should add one more item to wmpastor's list of possible inconveniences: "over-reactive CO's freaking out and posting threads about how their caches are being terrorized."

Edited December 29, 2013 by mocrash

[mocrash]

Having looked through the previous messages I wonder if everyone is convinced that trackables from a TB hotel are surely stolen by a registered geocaching.com user? Could it be just some local kids who noticed the nice box regularly filled with souvenirs? (Remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?) In situation like that I would move the cache to a new location ASAP and see if it works. Change not only the place but your manner of hiding. See if it works.

 

Reading further into this thread, it's on commercial property in a busy area. I wondering about permission, and if the landscapers that will eventually show up know not to take the cache and throw it in the trash?

 

Good question. And actually, that's been a problem for me once before with a different cache. I did get permission for the cache, but that wasn't relayed to landscapers who did find and dispose of the cache. This cache is the same basic idea. I have permission, but I have no way to make sure that gets relayed to landscapers.

Edited December 29, 2013 by mocrash

[mocrash]

As mentioned in another thread, I am a horrible TB host. I love moving these guys around, and I am always excited to see a bug in a cache. Always with the best intentions for moving them rapidly along, I snag the bugs, (logging that I have them, of course), and at that point I hit a huge fail. I drop them in my backpack, and promptly forget about them. Doh! A few days, a few weeks, sometimes a few months later, I'll find the poor little bug in my bag, and drop it in a cache. In my case, a nastygram from a Tab owner would likely be perfectly justified. Thankfully, I haven't received any yet.

I'm exactly the same way, unfortunately. I try not to take trackables, because I know this, but I keep caving. Each time I think, "maybe this time I'll be better!". I, on the other hand, have received an owner email a time or two. Although they've always been polite.

 

BTW - I got the trackables from the truck that I hadn't logged yet, and finally went online and retrieved them from the cache. Almost two weeks late. I think that's the longest I've waited to log trackables. I found them on the 16th, didn't have internet until we came home on the 18th, and then left them in the truck. So this thread was good for something.

 

Yes, good for something. A few years ago, I found a TB, logged it into my inventory, then had no idea where it was. Three months later, I found it behind my sofa during spring cleaning. My guess is that my cat picked it up off of the coffee table, jumped on the sofa and then dropped it into in unknown cache behind my sofa. Three months, it was back there. I felt bad and got it into a cache quickly. Never heard a word from the owner. I'm curious why Fizzy attracts these whiny TB emails?

 

Okay, so if I can ask another question then. As a TB owner who has sent out several TBs, most of which have been retrieved by one cacher and have not been moved, at what point is a polite inquiry justified? I have a couple that are just a month now, and one that's going on three months. Again, I personally try to move a TB within a month, or at least log some visits so the owner knows it's still active, but apparently that's not always the case. And I know it's winter, so people tend to be out caching less too. So, how/when do you guys address that situation?

[7rxc]

Okay, so if I can ask another question then. As a TB owner who has sent out several TBs, most of which have been retrieved by one cacher and have not been moved, at what point is a polite inquiry justified? I have a couple that are just a month now, and one that's going on three months. Again, I personally try to move a TB within a month, or at least log some visits so the owner knows it's still active, but apparently that's not always the case. And I know it's winter, so people tend to be out caching less too. So, how/when do you guys address that situation?

 

In the case where someone holds a TB for a while, one of the first things to look at is the weather conditions in the holders area ( you can check their information via their profile). Are they in nice pleasant weather? Or are they say up this way where we were having high snow and -30 C temperatures recently. It won't encourage many to get out when it's that bad, but a wee bit nicer and we are out there, trying to find the mostly new micros in several feet of snow. Same for the Northeast US and Canada... that ice storm isn't conducive to caching, but many will go when they get under control. Getting a feel for both the weather and related safety concerns will ease your mind a bit. Some simply are not aware of that aspect, and it relates to flooding, tornadoes, hurricanes, wildfires, landslides and avalanches etc. as well... and the recovery periods also.

 

I've been involved with Search and Rescue for many years, and I can say that often looking for people takes priority over caches and TBs fairly often... however, since I keep a few caches on my GPS, I've managed to take advantage of 'rest' breaks to log a cache or two while on duty as well. It's all relative of course. When it comes to simple sloth and carelessness, not much you can do of course, but hope. As you've seen there are several common techniques used for various valid reasons when it comes to logging trackables, but doing so as promptly as practicable is probably best. That doesn't mean the same as practical or even possible. But it is intended to be a combination of things.

 

Best goal is to make sure that anyone you introduce to geocaching understands the simple goals of TB's and caches in general... thoroughly, before you let go of them. Same for the process of learning it yourself.

Patience required for both sides of the coin though.

 

Hope that helps... me I TRY to move them promptly, but sometimes you simply can't find a spot.

I do try to stay in touch with the often unresponsive TOwners... makes it hard. So my last advice is, answer queries about your TB's and try to maintain contact with any you hold longer than a few weeks.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+niraD]

The greatest problem is if someone picks up a TB, fails to log, & places it in another cache where it is picked up before the prior moves are logged. The finder then needs to wait to place it elsewhere (checking the history), or drop it and cause a glitch in the travel history.

Well, if it's any consolation, I generally take retrieved TBs home and log them before I drop them anywhere. But that's just because I want to be sure I copy their tracking numbers correctly, not because I think TB logs are urgent, Urgent, URGENT!

 

And multiple times I've waited a few days for someone else to drop a TB or geocoin, before I logged my retrieval. And multiple times, I've gotten home to discover that someone else grabbed a TB or geocoin from me rather than waiting, so I grabbed it back, fixed the TB history as best I could, and sent email to the other geocacher explaining what I had done and why.

 

None of this is a major inconvenience.

 

The second scenario is where someone in planning a trip to "x," sees that there is a TB whose goal is to travel that direction, makes a trip to the cache to pick up the TB to take with them, & it's not there. This applies equally where someone sees a TB listed in a cache and that TB is of interest for any other reason & they travel to the cache specifically to pick up the TB, which is no longer there.

Like getting an FTF, there are no guarantees that you'll find a TB or geocoin that is listed as being in a cache. If that's the only reason you're visiting the cache, then you're taking your chances, whether someone else gets it a few days or a few minutes beforehand.

 

I've gone out of my way to visit and revisit caches for various reasons. Sometimes, whatever the reason is, it works out. Sometimes it doesn't. Again, this is no major inconvenience.

[+The Leprechauns]

Okay, well, good news on the original topic. Everyone who had their money on "he's being impatient and it's probably just a delayed log" was right. They were finally logged out, and it appears that I was connecting two independent incidents and seeing a pattern that was just a coincidence.

 

...It seems that you have had two incidents where TBs have disappeared without being logged. I'd hardly call that terrorism, but I can see how you might be alarmed.

 

Yeah, exactly right. Two consecutive incidents where all the TBs in the cache disappeared right after being placed. The first time TBs went missing without logs, I waited a week to mark them missing and they never showed up, so I just assumed it was the same thing. Perhaps "terrorism" was a little strong, but it really felt like that at the time. As you probably noticed, I've only hidden 7 caches, and this was a first for me.

 

Thanks so much to everyone for the advice and understanding. I definitely learned a lot from this experience. For the most part, cachers around here seem to log everything pretty quickly, and I myself log trackables the same day I grab them, so it never occurred to me that some people might not. I feel the same way as wmpastor, I think. Even when I'm out of the country, as long as I have internet or cell phone access, I try to log TBs same day to avoid any problems or inconveniences. And I guess we should add one more item to wmpastor's list of possible inconveniences: "over-reactive CO's freaking out and posting threads about how their caches are being terrorized."

I was one of those people who felt you were overreacting. I hope that my feedback was one of the constructive posts that helped you.

 

I just wanted to post to give you props for your follow-up post. Too many forum posters start a thread and then get angry when they discover that people don't agree with their position. You learned from the feedback and stayed respectful. I hope that you continue participating in these Forums when you have questions or issues to discuss. I am happy to help people like you.

[+Ambrosia]

Having looked through the previous messages I wonder if everyone is convinced that trackables from a TB hotel are surely stolen by a registered geocaching.com user? Could it be just some local kids who noticed the nice box regularly filled with souvenirs? (Remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?) In situation like that I would move the cache to a new location ASAP and see if it works. Change not only the place but your manner of hiding. See if it works.

 

Reading further into this thread, it's on commercial property in a busy area. I wondering about permission, and if the landscapers that will eventually show up know not to take the cache and throw it in the trash?

 

Good question. And actually, that's been a problem for me once before with a different cache. I did get permission for the cache, but that wasn't relayed to landscapers who did find and dispose of the cache. This cache is the same basic idea. I have permission, but I have no way to make sure that gets relayed to landscapers.

I have that problem with one of my caches. I was actually asked to place the cache from one of the overseers of the property where the cache is at. I've told the most important people involved with the property that it's there, yet every year it disappears to the landscapers. They employ teenagers and others who have no clue about the cache and must be tossing it (it always disappears during plant trimmings). Drives me batty, and I'd be tempted to archive it if it wasn't a requested cache, and hadn't been published in a regional historical booklet that utilizes caches.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Ambrosia

[+Don_J]

Having looked through the previous messages I wonder if everyone is convinced that trackables from a TB hotel are surely stolen by a registered geocaching.com user? Could it be just some local kids who noticed the nice box regularly filled with souvenirs? (Remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?) In situation like that I would move the cache to a new location ASAP and see if it works. Change not only the place but your manner of hiding. See if it works.

 

Reading further into this thread, it's on commercial property in a busy area. I wondering about permission, and if the landscapers that will eventually show up know not to take the cache and throw it in the trash?

 

Good question. And actually, that's been a problem for me once before with a different cache. I did get permission for the cache, but that wasn't relayed to landscapers who did find and dispose of the cache. This cache is the same basic idea. I have permission, but I have no way to make sure that gets relayed to landscapers.

I have that problem with one of my caches. I was actually asked to place the cache from one of the overseers of the property where the cache is at. I've told the most important people involved with the property that it's there, yet every year it disappears to the landscapers. They employ teenagers and others who have no clue about the cache and must be tossing it (it always disappears during plant trimmings). Drives me batty, and I'd be tempted to archive it if it wasn't a requested cache, and hadn't been published in a regional historical booklet that utilizes caches.

 

Would it be possible to get the yearly trimming schedule and just remove and disable the cache until it is finished?

[+NanCycle]

 

I just wanted to post to give you props for your follow-up post. Too many forum posters start a thread and then get angry when they discover that people don't agree with their position. You learned from the feedback and stayed respectful. I hope that you continue participating in these Forums when you have questions or issues to discuss. I am happy to help people like you.

 

Thanks, Leprechauns, for expressing what I was thinking this morning but didn't take the time to say myself. Yes, I too was impressed with the tone of the follow-up posts; even after it took some extended questioning to get to the heart of the issue, there was never that "you people are so mean" that comes up so often when the poster doesn't get the answer they wanted, and sugar-coated at that.

 

Well, that came out awfully convoluted, but I hope you can understand what I was getting at.

[+Ambrosia]

Having looked through the previous messages I wonder if everyone is convinced that trackables from a TB hotel are surely stolen by a registered geocaching.com user? Could it be just some local kids who noticed the nice box regularly filled with souvenirs? (Remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?) In situation like that I would move the cache to a new location ASAP and see if it works. Change not only the place but your manner of hiding. See if it works.

 

Reading further into this thread, it's on commercial property in a busy area. I wondering about permission, and if the landscapers that will eventually show up know not to take the cache and throw it in the trash?

 

Good question. And actually, that's been a problem for me once before with a different cache. I did get permission for the cache, but that wasn't relayed to landscapers who did find and dispose of the cache. This cache is the same basic idea. I have permission, but I have no way to make sure that gets relayed to landscapers.

I have that problem with one of my caches. I was actually asked to place the cache from one of the overseers of the property where the cache is at. I've told the most important people involved with the property that it's there, yet every year it disappears to the landscapers. They employ teenagers and others who have no clue about the cache and must be tossing it (it always disappears during plant trimmings). Drives me batty, and I'd be tempted to archive it if it wasn't a requested cache, and hadn't been published in a regional historical booklet that utilizes caches.

 

Would it be possible to get the yearly trimming schedule and just remove and disable the cache until it is finished?

It's not really a schedule, as it has to do with weather and when spring starts, generally. But you're right, I could communicate with the head of maintenance better and find out when they're doing things. But that would take organization!

[+TeamSeekAndWeShallFind]

If the trackables are being moved on eventually, then there is no issue. If someone is stealing them and collecting them then there isn't much you can do.

 

I never liked the idea of TB "hotels" in the first place. If a "Hotel" goes missing a lot of trackables go with it. For a "hotel" to be of any use then it needs to be in a high traffic, easily accessible area, precisely the sort of area that is a target for cache thieves.

 

I think if you just forget the idea that your cache is a TB hotel you will get more pleasure out of it.

Forget the idea that your cache is a TB hotel? Is that supposed to be good advice? That's so wrong and a very typical/common answer/advice to issues such as this....stealing TB's, pilfering caches, vandalizing caches, stealing caches etc... In simpler words...we're supposed to turn the other cheek...take the high road....change your cache to something other than what you originally wanted it to be or hoped it to be because there are those in the game who are simply out to ruin it for others or have it in for you or better yet, hide your TB hotel under a different user name so maybe the person(s) who's stealing the TBs from your TB hotel won't know that you own it. That's the advice we received in reference to our stolen caches. Those of us in the game who don't steal and/or pilfer or vandalize, are somehow responsible for those bad apples who do. It's up to us to conform to THEM? I don't think so. Don't ever allow yourself to be bullied.

Edited December 30, 2013 by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind

[+Don_J]

If the trackables are being moved on eventually, then there is no issue. If someone is stealing them and collecting them then there isn't much you can do.

 

I never liked the idea of TB "hotels" in the first place. If a "Hotel" goes missing a lot of trackables go with it. For a "hotel" to be of any use then it needs to be in a high traffic, easily accessible area, precisely the sort of area that is a target for cache thieves.

 

I think if you just forget the idea that your cache is a TB hotel you will get more pleasure out of it.

Forget the idea that your cache is a TB hotel? Is that supposed to be good advice? That's so wrong and a very typical/common answer/advice to issues such as this....stealing TB's, pilfering caches, vandalizing caches, stealing caches etc... In simpler words...we're supposed to turn the other cheek...take the high road....change your cache to something other than what you originally wanted it to be or hoped it to be because there are those in the game who are simply out to ruin it for others or have it in for you or better yet, hide your TB hotel under a different user name so maybe the person(s) who's stealing the TBs from your TB hotel won't know that you own it. That's the advice we received in reference to our stolen caches. Those of us in the game who don't steal and/or pilfer or vandalize, are somehow responsible for those bad apples who do. It's up to us to conform to THEM? I don't think so. Don't ever allow yourself to be bullied.

 

That's because in your case, you are the target. In the case of someone raiding a TB hotel, the bugs are the target. Your situation has nothing to do with this.

 

If I knew that a cache was getting raided, hotel or not, I wouldn't put a bug in it, and if I owned a TB Hotel and was certain that it was being raided, the simplest solution would be to change it and not have people put other people's property in it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Don_J

[mocrash]

 

I just wanted to post to give you props for your follow-up post. Too many forum posters start a thread and then get angry when they discover that people don't agree with their position. You learned from the feedback and stayed respectful. I hope that you continue participating in these Forums when you have questions or issues to discuss. I am happy to help people like you.

 

Thanks, Leprechauns, for expressing what I was thinking this morning but didn't take the time to say myself. Yes, I too was impressed with the tone of the follow-up posts; even after it took some extended questioning to get to the heart of the issue, there was never that "you people are so mean" that comes up so often when the poster doesn't get the answer they wanted, and sugar-coated at that.

 

Well, that came out awfully convoluted, but I hope you can understand what I was getting at.

Thank you both for the kind words. That's really nice of you to say, and I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.

 

Happy New Years!

Edited December 31, 2013 by mocrash