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Cache in stump


GCTomi

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Hiding it under the stump is fine. You can drill something and bring it to the site - just shouldn't drill what's there.

 

I agree- I believe this type of thing gives people a false sense of what we do. Sure it way not actually hurt anything, but landowners won see it as the stump being dead already, they'll see it as us going around and drilling in trees.

 

Anyway shouldn't you have asked before you did it? :unsure:

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Hiding it under the stump is fine. You can drill something and bring it to the site - just shouldn't drill what's there.

 

I agree- I believe this type of thing gives people a false sense of what we do. Sure it way not actually hurt anything, but landowners won see it as the stump being dead already, they'll see it as us going around and drilling in trees.

 

Anyway shouldn't you have asked before you did it? :unsure:

 

Mybe you didn't understand me :) i didn't cut down that tree. I've founded that stump near the river.

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Hiding it under the stump is fine. You can drill something and bring it to the site - just shouldn't drill what's there.

 

I agree- I believe this type of thing gives people a false sense of what we do. Sure it way not actually hurt anything, but landowners won see it as the stump being dead already, they'll see it as us going around and drilling in trees.

 

Anyway shouldn't you have asked before you did it? :unsure:

 

Mybe you didn't understand me :) i didn't cut down that tree. I've founded that stump near the river.

 

Worthwhile reading, and re-reading, the guidelines...

 

4 Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property.

 

Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find.

 

Always worth a read, and re-read of them!

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It sounds petty.... not being able (according to the guidelines) to drill out a dead stump, I'll admit that... but it isn't your stump to drill out. Whether you did or didn't cut it down is beside the point. Most likely, if you had cut the tree itself, you probably wouldn't have bothered to ask the question because you would've already realized that you were outside of the guideline.

 

It comes down to drawing (and crossing) a line. The wording of that guideline "Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property" is pretty straightforward.

 

It seems the biggest problem people have is assigning a value to that which is to be defaced. Monetary value is immaterial, it is the principle to the wording itself.

To you, that stump has no value... to a chipmunk, squirrel, frog or salamander, it does. One of the basic concepts of Geocaching is to have as little impact on nature and our surroundings as possible.

 

Nit-picky yes, but the nit-pick has to start somewhere... and the guidelines provide the "where".

 

 

While I (personally) believe drilling out the stump has little bearing on the overall course of nature, I feel the guideline and its intent is proper in all aspects.

You asked the question and got the answers... more to come, pro and con, I am sure.

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Hiding it under the stump is fine. You can drill something and bring it to the site - just shouldn't drill what's there.

 

I agree- I believe this type of thing gives people a false sense of what we do. Sure it way not actually hurt anything, but landowners won see it as the stump being dead already, they'll see it as us going around and drilling in trees.

 

Anyway shouldn't you have asked before you did it? :unsure:

 

Mybe you didn't understand me :) i didn't cut down that tree. I've founded that stump near the river.

Maybe it's a wording thing. Do you mean a log?

We've seen numerous logs with holes bored for containers and even had a few ourselves.

Groundspeak even sells them in their store.

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Hi,

I've got one question. Can be cache placed on the bottom side of a stump? I've found a small (20cm) stump and i think it will be a good place to create a new cache. I drilled a hole from the bottom side, so you must pick it up if you want to find it. There's a photo of it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1odmajzdymd3etp/Snapshot_20131201_1.lnk

Not sure of anyone else, but your link won't open (for me) to show what you're referring to.

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Hiding it under the stump is fine. You can drill something and bring it to the site - just shouldn't drill what's there.

 

I agree- I believe this type of thing gives people a false sense of what we do. Sure it way not actually hurt anything, but landowners won see it as the stump being dead already, they'll see it as us going around and drilling in trees.

 

Anyway shouldn't you have asked before you did it? :unsure:

 

Maybe you didn't understand me :) I didn't cut down that tree. I've founded that stump near the river.

 

I understood you perfectly. My point was that others-non cachers, and new cachers won't. They won't care if it was you that cut it down, or if it got chewed down by a beaver-they could see it as you damaging a tree. A new player will see it and attempt a similar hide on a healthy tree.

 

It's the fact that it could make geocachers look like a bunch of careless people-put a cache wherever they feel like it. And for this reason, it doesn't matter if the cache is on your property, a public park, or a forest-others won't care.

 

The newbie will copy it on someone else's property, and the landowner will think "If that's how they treat their property, I don't want to find out how they treat mine."

 

And anyway-Unless you had permission from the landowner, it's vandalism, or defacing property/nature, or whatever term you want to call it. It doesn't matter that the tree is dead, or that you're not the one who killed it. You wouldn't go paint racist messages on the stump, just because it was already there...

 

Now if you put a cache in a branch, or log and brought the log to another location, then you just added something that wasn't there. It would be not different than an ammo can, other than the shape and material. You mentioned picking up the stump- Are you actually talking about a stump (first picture-defined as the part left in the ground) or are you talking a branch or log?(second picture-sold by Groundspeak) This is one of those times that using the correct word will change the answers.

 

stump.jpg

 

large-log-cache_500.jpg

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While waiting for a response to TDM22's query...

 

I would mention that the concept of bringing a log to the site from somewhere else has it's own problem...

 

Ever notice the highway signs that mention NOT bringing in things like firewood and similar bio material from other locations... Around here that can lead to a big fine if caught. Even within the province boundary.

There are bans from moving firewood from districts as well. Campers are often tempted to bring their own from home to burn at our campsites, or to take some obtained locally home... they do get caught from time to time.

Single pieces would be harder to get caught out with, but possible if you mix species. Just something to think about. We see it in logging country due to bug infestations... The BC/AB border is fairly tight about this in either direction... don't even think about US/CAN border.

 

If you do something like bringing one of your own to hide, make sure it is locally sourced and species compatible.

 

Doug 7rxc

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make sure it is locally sourced and species compatible.

And keep in mind that plant material is biodegradable. I placed four nice, sturdy log sections in my backyard last year, and a single spongy little piece remains. I wouldn't want to place a cache where I had to transport a new stump every few months. Your mileage may vary. :anicute:

 

Considering the issues of moving a nest of critters into a forest where it doesn't belong, and the deterioration of wood, a fake log may be a better plan. Hollow material shaped and colored like a stump might even hold a rather large container.

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Hi,

I've got one question. Can be cache placed on the bottom side of a stump? I've found a small (20cm) stump and i think it will be a good place to create a new cache. I drilled a hole from the bottom side, so you must pick it up if you want to find it. There's a photo of it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1odmajzdymd3etp/Snapshot_20131201_1.lnk

Not sure of anyone else, but your link won't open (for me) to show what you're referring to.

 

Me neither...

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make sure it is locally sourced and species compatible.

And keep in mind that plant material is biodegradable. I placed four nice, sturdy log sections in my backyard last year, and a single spongy little piece remains. I wouldn't want to place a cache where I had to transport a new stump every few months. Your mileage may vary. :anicute:

 

Considering the issues of moving a nest of critters into a forest where it doesn't belong, and the deterioration of wood, a fake log may be a better plan. Hollow material shaped and colored like a stump might even hold a rather large container.

Thanks for making the 'right way' information available... I was focused on the problems of the wrong way.

 

While here I'll mention that the biodegrading also affects 'real' stumps and downed logs. In addition to animals looking for food and tearing them apart, I've seen more than a few stumps pulled apart by over zealous finders that can't quite reach in far enough. Not entirely malice though, just the act of trying to reach in all the way and failing... or even simply leaning on it for balance. Under something may be the betterway or at least better in the short run. Given that bears here seem to pull apart stumps with caches inside while ignoring others nearby, I suspect that they smell 'human' scent on the stump/cache and are curious at very least, snacks are a bonus. Simply handling something or being there is enough to scent it for a good nose.

 

Doug 7rxc

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And keep in mind that plant material is biodegradable. I placed four nice, sturdy log sections in my backyard last year, and a single spongy little piece remains. I wouldn't want to place a cache where I had to transport a new stump every few months. Your mileage may vary. :anicute:

Wow. Vary is right!

We archived a series in March of this year using logs, that was placed 5/'06 .

We did have to replace the original containers (film cans) in '11 that were bored in them, but simply filled the larger hole with epoxy, hammered in matchstick holders and they were good-to-go again.

 

We just gave them to another to start a series of their own.

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Are you actually talking about a stump (first picture-defined as the part left in the ground) or are you talking a branch or log?(second picture-sold by Groundspeak) This is one of those times that using the correct word will change the answers.

No, not really.

A log could be anything from a large branch to a trunk cut two inches from the root end.

- A stump simply includes the roots.

 

What would be the difference if one were to place a small driftwood stump ("found it near the river") or a log?

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And keep in mind that plant material is biodegradable. I placed four nice, sturdy log sections in my backyard last year, and a single spongy little piece remains. I wouldn't want to place a cache where I had to transport a new stump every few months. Your mileage may vary. :anicute:

Wow. Vary is right!

We archived a series in March of this year using logs, that was placed 5/'06 .

We did have to replace the original containers (film cans) in '11 that were bored in them, but simply filled the larger hole with epoxy, hammered in matchstick holders and they were good-to-go again.

 

We just gave them to another to start a series of their own.

There seem to be a whole lot of variables. In my yard, I get opossums, squirrels, deer, rabbits, pretty much two of everything. I expect Noah to show up at any moment. And I live in town and have a small yard. Animals break up the logs. I think I had a couple of termites, too. :anicute:

 

If the OP finds a loose stump that is holding together, it may be suitable for a cache, and not degrade so much (stump ownership being a separate issue). How long it lasts depends on what eats the stump. Maybe cedar would be good. But then you move it to a stump-less spot, and maybe discover there's a reason there was no wood there.

Edited by kunarion
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And keep in mind that plant material is biodegradable. I placed four nice, sturdy log sections in my backyard last year, and a single spongy little piece remains. I wouldn't want to place a cache where I had to transport a new stump every few months. Your mileage may vary. :anicute:

Wow. Vary is right!

We archived a series in March of this year using logs, that was placed 5/'06 .

We did have to replace the original containers (film cans) in '11 that were bored in them, but simply filled the larger hole with epoxy, hammered in matchstick holders and they were good-to-go again.

 

We just gave them to another to start a series of their own.

There seem to be a whole lot of variables. In my yard, I get opossums, squirrels, deer, rabbits, pretty much two of everything. I expect Noah to show up at any moment. And I live in town and have a small yard. Animals break up the logs. I think I had a couple of termites, too. :anicute:

 

If the OP finds a loose stump that is holding together, it may be suitable for a cache, and not degrade so much (stump ownership being a separate issue). How long it lasts depends on what eats the stump. Maybe cedar would be good.

Yeah, variables I guess...

I'm rural.

CJ has a hunting treestand in the back of our yard and at my Mother's a couple miles away.

We hunt on our properties, there's so many animals (and property to play).

Though we have high humidity, I still have solid stumps left from Ivan in '04.

Finally got fed up waiting and burned two out this Fall. A good ten or so left.

My Mother refuses to burn her wood stove unless power's out. The last wood I cut for her was in '06. Lean-to wood shed, some logs on the far edge from '98 are starting to get white rot. Have to barrel burn 'em.

We no longer have a wood stove (gas now), so I place downed trees in forks of others to dry for someone else to pick up. :)

We don't have critters eating wood - But forget a garden and they eat our mums ! :D

 

Of five log hides we had, two were cedar, one hemlock, one locust and one oak.

- Not sure why the difference.

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To you, that stump has no value... to a chipmunk, squirrel, frog or salamander, it does.

FYI, everyone: For those with questions about caches in fox-dens, there's another forum thread in progress. As for the guy placing caches in bear-caves, well, he's no longer with us.... Sadly, the bear didn't follow the "live-and-let-live" guidelines.... :o

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Are you actually talking about a stump (first picture-defined as the part left in the ground) or are you talking a branch or log?(second picture-sold by Groundspeak) This is one of those times that using the correct word will change the answers.

No, not really.

A log could be anything from a large branch to a trunk cut two inches from the root end.

- A stump simply includes the roots.

 

What would be the difference if one were to place a small driftwood stump ("found it near the river") or a log?

 

The difference? When I hear stump I think the thing on the ground. The CO could not have placed that, as it was previous there as a tree ( unless they planted it) so it would be the same as drilling into a live tree, or street sign for tha matter. What I'm getting at is that you are defacing something that isn't yours. The OP admitted to drilling a hole. While it may or may not do any actual damage, someone sees a hide like that and does it to a live tree.

 

Now if you put a cache in an existing hole , or bring something to place that wasnt there beforethat's different.

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Are you actually talking about a stump (first picture-defined as the part left in the ground) or are you talking a branch or log?(second picture-sold by Groundspeak) This is one of those times that using the correct word will change the answers.

No, not really.

A log could be anything from a large branch to a trunk cut two inches from the root end.

- A stump simply includes the roots.

 

What would be the difference if one were to place a small driftwood stump ("found it near the river") or a log?

 

The difference? When I hear stump I think the thing on the ground. The CO could not have placed that, as it was previous there as a tree ( unless they planted it) so it would be the same as drilling into a live tree, or street sign for tha matter. What I'm getting at is that you are defacing something that isn't yours. The OP admitted to drilling a hole. While it may or may not do any actual damage, someone sees a hide like that and does it to a live tree.

 

Now if you put a cache in an existing hole , or bring something to place that wasnt there beforethat's different.

The OP stated "I've found a small (20cm) stump and i think it will be a good place to create a new cache. I drilled a hole from the bottom side, so you must pick it up if you want to find it."

What part didn't some here understand ?

- If "you must pick it up if you want to find it" doesn't tell you he found an almost 8" "stump or log" and drilled a hole in it for a hide...

At no time did he ever say he drilled a hole into a stump that was still fast to the ground.

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While waiting for a response to TDM22's query...

 

I would mention that the concept of bringing a log to the site from somewhere else has it's own problem...

 

Ever notice the highway signs that mention NOT bringing in things like firewood and similar bio material from other locations... Around here that can lead to a big fine if caught. Even within the province boundary.

There are bans from moving firewood from districts as well. Campers are often tempted to bring their own from home to burn at our campsites, or to take some obtained locally home... they do get caught from time to time.

Single pieces would be harder to get caught out with, but possible if you mix species. Just something to think about. We see it in logging country due to bug infestations... The BC/AB border is fairly tight about this in either direction... don't even think about US/CAN border.

 

If you do something like bringing one of your own to hide, make sure it is locally sourced and species compatible.

 

Doug 7rxc

 

Local laws still apply and trump any guidelines by Groundspeak. If you drop a micro five feet from a "No Littering" sign, directing the police to contact Groundspeak won't help your case.

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I do think the "others might see it and might do something stupid" kind of argument is worthless. One can only decide on a case by case basis. IF the OP found a driftwood stump and IF collecting said driftwood was legal in his municipality and IF there is no problem importing wood foreign to the area and IF the landowner gave his permission and IF no other law or regulation is broken it is a legitimate hide no matter what anybody might think.

Right?

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If you follow the guidelines then 99% of all caches would have to be removed. Use common sense.
Really? I've found a few that clearly violated guidelines, and I reported them. I've found others that were questionable, and sometimes I've followed up on those. But 99%? You must have a lot of COs flouting the guidelines in your area.
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If you follow the guidelines then 99% of all caches would have to be removed. Use common sense.
Really? I've found a few that clearly violated guidelines, and I reported them. I've found others that were questionable, and sometimes I've followed up on those. But 99%? You must have a lot of COs flouting the guidelines in your area.

 

Why yes. Yes we do. Since some were placed on my property and they were never asked to be placed there and they were approved even though I e-mailed the CO and asked them to remove them, then I'd say that we here in this area have a problem. Plus, I know of a team in our area that has placed quite a few in obvious areas that are off limits. In fact, when you go look for theirs, that is the best place to start (in the off limit areas). What about all those electrical enclosures and sprinkler heads? Have approval? I doubt it. Grave sites? Near/on school property? The list goes on.

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