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Placing a cache somewhere with an entrance fee


sarahmcmur

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Hello all!

Looking for some guidance as I can't find the answer to my question. Near where i live there are some lovely gardens with historical significance and it's a lovely place to walk around and have a picnic, etc. I am well aware I would need the permission of the landowner and intend to write to them to ask before placing a cache but my question is:

How do people feel about having a cache placed somewhere that you have to pay to get in? The fee is €6 for adults and kids are free. Have you come across caches where you have to pay in? Did you mind or did it annoy you?

I am new to the game and want to hide caches in places that are historically interesting and/or scenic, and I think this place is lovely.

Any thoughts much appreciated :anibad:

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First of all... don't "write" them in order to get permission. Face-to-face communication is most always better received that those faceless emails and/or letters. If I were the administrator and you didn't feel that you had the time for a face-to-face, well... simply put, I wouldn't have the time to allow your silly game! The owner/administrator is going to have questions and you must be prepared to answer them. Doing such with a myriad of emails/letters is not the way to get it done! Add to that, body language speaks volumes.

 

The price of admission question has a number of caveats associated with it. Is the business a for-profit or not-for-profit? Would the placement in any way be considered as a promotion of the business? Is contact with staff required for the finding of the cache?

 

The best answer to those and other questions will come directly from your local reviewer, not from us in the forums. We can mostly provide you with opinions and little more... those opinions will have little bearing considering that it is the reviewer that has the (near) final decision.

 

You should have those reviewer/placement questions answered BEFORE attempting permission from the grounds administrator.

 

That said... I think that a cache within a botanical gardens could be an attractive placement. One that many may well enjoy.

Clear those placement hurdles, get the permission and very carefully plan the placement. It could be a real winner.

:) :) :) :)

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Thanks for the responses thus far and also your advice on face to face communication. When I did a little search for 'contacting landowners for permission', I came across a letter template, so I blindly accepted this was the way to go but perhaps not :)

 

In regards to contacting a local reviewer, I will do that in due course but really my question was just a broad thing to gauge people's reaction to this. Do people not like having to pay to log a cache, etc? ).

 

Thanks again for your help :D

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Do people not like having to pay to log a cache, etc? ).

If it really is personal opinions that you want, then I have to admit that it bugs me to pay to access the cache... but then again, I'm on a fixed income. Perhaps better-off cachers don't mind. It would be one I'd leave until I absolutely HAD to go for it (say it was the only one which would work for a particular challenge). There are occasions when I have paid to get to a cache (toll tunnel cost & event charge), so it's obviously something I'll consider if the circumstances are right! ;)

 

However, if it's somewhere YOU like then try not to think too much about what everyone else wants (you'll never please everyone). Place the cache YOU'd like to find. If YOU'd pay to go in, then doubtless others would too.

 

Having said that, if I had paid and it had been muggled or I had a DNF, then I'd probably be very miffed! Paying once, would annoy me, paying twice would be really quite irritating! What would your positioning/maintenance plan be to stop that happening too often?

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The argument is simple really -

 

Are you likely to pay to get a smiley. We have. Unwittingly on the Isle of Wight. Couldn't find the cache and entered into the fort because we planned to do so anyway. Our surprise came when we entered a room and the GPS which was still on - beeped. It was a great cache location. We were pleased we did it and would certainly recommend the fort. It was excellent and massively extensive. We planned an hour there and spent all day instead. Why did we go in ... Because we had been searching for the cache and because the GPS was lying or so we thought and we happened to notice the other offerings. Would so recommend that fort and the cache was a bonus.

 

Trouble is you have to have a rule. If you circumvent that rule of no caches in a business (the fort was a museum in so many words) but say a shop ... well it opens up the flood gates doesn't it. It makes the job of the reviewers even more nauseating. Then you start whining that you know of other caches etc etc and then those CO's get grief. Does it really have to be inside. Can you not place it in a free area and offer the nearby attraction as a diversion afterwards. Can you get a cuppa there. All these things will be welcomed and applauded. The other way to to go for it and hope people don't kick off. And they will kick off and they will mention they had to pay in their logs and then the reviewer will be approached and .... It's easier the first way to be honest and less hassle for all concerned.

 

If you do decide to put it outside state it's outside on the page. The maps can be fury at times and it may seem inside and put people off. If you have to pay to get it you MUST state this. Driving a fair way to realise it comes with a sting in the tail ... the logs will make miserable reading.

 

Finally - and this is the "oh another newbie goes cache laying crazy" snob in me. But with 93 caches found it might be an idea to do some caching first before sailing close to the wind on the rules. Nothing winds people up more than a newbie bashing caches out wholesale and to bin out of the hobby at 250 finds. And then people moaning log full, muggled cache etc and giving the reviewers, finders, location a bad name. And I can hear your mind going meh meh meh how dare you blah blah blah. But this happens week in week out over and over again and again and ... You're still gonna do it your way aren't you. Pffff they always ask. They always ignore lol.

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In regards to contacting a local reviewer, I will do that in due course but really my question was just a broad thing to gauge people's reaction to this. Do people not like having to pay to log a cache, etc? ).
I can't imagine paying £6 for no other reason than to find a cache - there would have to be something truly spectacular about the cache itself.

 

It IS likely I would look for a cache if I visited a paying location for reasons other than caching. I would be unlikely to visit a botanical gardens, but I'm sure quite a few people might.

 

Rgds, Andy

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If the only reason to visit the location was to find the cache, then no I would not pay. If I had planed to visit anyway then I would search for the cache whilst there.

I did have a cache in an arboretum owned by Oxford University, when they changed their policy and started charging for entry I archived this cache as 1) I didn't like the idea of people having to pay to visit my cache and 2) I would have to pay each time I visited to maintain it.

Edited by Mad H@ter
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Whatever the reviewer's thoughts, the best placement would be somewhere close to the car park for the gardens (assuming that parking is free); but not actually inside the gardens. So if you're interested in visiting and can afford the €6 then you can go ahead, AND log the cache. If you just want to log the cache then there's no problem with that either.

 

Although it might seem better to actually place the cache inside, you're likely to be discouraged when it very rarely gets found. And even though the management may seem enthusiastic at first, after a couple of years they may forget about it and it may become buried or moved. In the meantime you'll have to keep on spending €6 just to check on the cache. I'd advise just writing a good cache description with a well-presented history of the gardens and whet peoples' appetite for a visit, but make it clear that the don't have to pay to find the cache.

 

As far as having to actually meet the owners; it might be best in this case but an e-mail or letter is normal.

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Thanks everyone for your input. I drove past the place on the way home last night and noticed a potential spot to leave the cache outside the grounds, as someone mentioned. This way, I can still give the history of the place and give info on what you can do/see inside, without people having to pay for the cache. I think this is what I'll do if I decide to definitely put a cache there.

 

Thanks again

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I can still give the history of the place and give info on what you can do/see inside, without people having to pay for the cache.

I think you may have to be careful how you phrase it, else the reviewer may see it as promoting the gardens. It's a fine line between giving useful information to cachers, and promoting a business.

 

Rgds, Andy

Edited by Amberel
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I can still give the history of the place and give info on what you can do/see inside, without people having to pay for the cache.

I think you may have to be careful how you phrase it, else the reviewer may see it as promoting the gardens. It's a fine line between giving useful information to cachers, and promoting a business.

 

Rgds, Andy

I agree with that but don't be put off. E-mail the reviewer with a proposed wording and he/she may just advise on any necessary adjustments. But if it's clearly just informational then it should be fine. Avoid mentioning opening times, entrance fees etc (even though it would be most useful).

 

A trick I've seen used is to set up a companion Waymark with all this info (in the Botanical Gardens category) and then simply reference the Waymark on the cache page. Geocaching.com is very sensitive to any hint of commerciality, whereas Waymarking.com isn't (even though they're both Groundspeak really).

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Saying that though Humphrey our TB was in a TB hotel in Germany the other day and the translation said it was in a cinema. The owner emailed us about the TB and we replied asking how they got their cache published. Considering it was in a cinema. The owner replied that I was incorrect. Google translate had translated it wrong. It was in fact a 'stationary' shop. That they had informed the reviewer that not only would it be there but it would also have odd opening times and was granted permission to place another cache container down the road when the shop was shut. They also said that a cache in Hanover airport was archived for the same reason but that it was reinstated with Jeremy Irish's permission.

 

So it seems Groundspeak are funny about these cache placements ... In the uk lol but not Germany.

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Saying that though Humphrey our TB was in a TB hotel in Germany the other day and the translation said it was in a cinema. The owner emailed us about the TB and we replied asking how they got their cache published. Considering it was in a cinema. The owner replied that I was incorrect. Google translate had translated it wrong. It was in fact a 'stationary' shop. That they had informed the reviewer that not only would it be there but it would also have odd opening times and was granted permission to place another cache container down the road when the shop was shut. They also said that a cache in Hanover airport was archived for the same reason but that it was reinstated with Jeremy Irish's permission.

 

So it seems Groundspeak are funny about these cache placements ... In the uk lol but not Germany.

 

Not just Germany. Coming from the Czech Republic, I have seen a lot of caches there that wouldn't be allowed here because of their nature or placement. And everyone is fine with them, the reviewers, the COs, the finders... Actually, I was quite surprised by things I needed to remove from listings/wasn't able to get published at all here because the reviewers deemed them "commercial" or otherwise against the rules. I don't know much about what is the norm elsewhere, but based on what I've seen abroad and heard from other foreign cachers, there are huge differences between countries, and so far the UK reviewers are the most strict ones I've heard about (no idea about the US).

That said, please note I'm not saying if that's a good or bad thing. This is just an honest comment, and I have no intention of starting any fights.

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Saying that though Humphrey our TB was in a TB hotel in Germany the other day and the translation said it was in a cinema. The owner emailed us about the TB and we replied asking how they got their cache published. Considering it was in a cinema. The owner replied that I was incorrect. Google translate had translated it wrong. It was in fact a 'stationary' shop. That they had informed the reviewer that not only would it be there but it would also have odd opening times and was granted permission to place another cache container down the road when the shop was shut. They also said that a cache in Hanover airport was archived for the same reason but that it was reinstated with Jeremy Irish's permission.

 

So it seems Groundspeak are funny about these cache placements ... In the uk lol but not Germany.

 

Not just Germany. Coming from the Czech Republic, I have seen a lot of caches there that wouldn't be allowed here because of their nature or placement. And everyone is fine with them, the reviewers, the COs, the finders... Actually, I was quite surprised by things I needed to remove from listings/wasn't able to get published at all here because the reviewers deemed them "commercial" or otherwise against the rules. I don't know much about what is the norm elsewhere, but based on what I've seen abroad and heard from other foreign cachers, there are huge differences between countries, and so far the UK reviewers are the most strict ones I've heard about (no idea about the US).

That said, please note I'm not saying if that's a good or bad thing. This is just an honest comment, and I have no intention of starting any fights or criticizing anyone.

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