Lest we Forget

[+pq273478]

I found a cache in Filey, North Yorkshire (UK), called 'Lest we Forget ~ Filey" it was placed in a public garden near a war memorial. Such a great idea, especially considering 2014 marks the beginning of the First World War.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a cache in sight of more memorials, to honour those who fought.

 

I thinking of placing one near, a memorial in my hometown.

 

Is 'lest we forget' already an established series?

 

Thank you

[+Dogmeat*]

I found a cache in Filey, North Yorkshire (UK), called 'Lest we Forget ~ Filey" it was placed in a public garden near a war memorial. Such a great idea, especially considering 2014 marks the beginning of the First World War.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a cache in sight of more memorials, to honour those who fought.

 

I thinking of placing one near, a memorial in my hometown.

 

Is 'lest we forget' already an established series?

 

Thank you

 

There are three here in town that I've found called "Lest We Forget" or "Our Heroic Dead" either at war memorials or at monuments built for those lost at sea.

[+T.D.M.22]

I found a cache in Filey, North Yorkshire (UK), called 'Lest we Forget ~ Filey" it was placed in a public garden near a war memorial. Such a great idea, especially considering 2014 marks the beginning of the First World War.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a cache in sight of more memorials, to honour those who fought.

 

I thinking of placing one near, a memorial in my hometown.

 

Is 'lest we forget' already an established series?

 

Thank you

 

That's odd. I remember reading about in a history book....

[+Beach_hut]

If you look down Cambridgeshire way, there are lots of "Poppies on Parade" caches. In fact we own one.

[+frinklabs]

It was a humbling experience putting together a series honoring the 16 Canadian recipients of the Victoria Cross in WWII

 

Canadian VCs in WWII

[+Dogmeat*]

It was a humbling experience putting together a series honoring the 16 Canadian recipients of the Victoria Cross in WWII

 

Canadian VCs in WWII

 

I went through and read a few of them. I may read the rest later. Very interesting, and an awesome series I hope to find some day in my travels.

[+humboldt flier]

It was a humbling experience putting together a series honoring the 16 Canadian recipients of the Victoria Cross in WWII

 

Canadian VCs in WWII

 

WOW, Amazing

[JASTA 11]

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a cache in sight of more memorials, to honour those who fought.

 

 

I totally agree with you and hope you can make it happen, but don't be surprised if TPTB give you some push back.

 

We hold an event each year on November 11, Armistice Day (now called Veterans Day in the U.S.)

 

This year we weren't allowed to use an image on the cache page that had the phrase "Honoring All Who Served". It seems that some interpret this as 'an agenda'.

 

Link to the offending image. Use caution when viewing!

[+Ambrosia]

It's important that with a memorial cache, you just state the facts. Try to keep away from words and phrases that could be construed to be asking for a reaction, or a response within the cacher.

[+T.D.M.22]

I found a cache in Filey, North Yorkshire (UK), called 'Lest we Forget ~ Filey" it was placed in a public garden near a war memorial. Such a great idea, especially considering 2014 marks the beginning of the First World War.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a cache in sight of more memorials, to honour those who fought.

 

I thinking of placing one near, a memorial in my hometown.

 

Is 'lest we forget' already an established series?

 

Thank you

 

Nobody ever did say how the First World War began in the future...and I honestly don't know enough about it to figure out what the OP meant to say. Is anyone able to enlighten me?

[+SirDonB]

I am working on a Medal of Honor series to place in and around my area that will incorporated locations specifically for veterans whether they heal them, aid them, are a meeting place to wash away their troubles, etc. My biggest hurdle to placing them is landowner permission at this point. I have my first one ready to go, just need owners permission.

[+larryc43230]

I found a cache in Filey, North Yorkshire (UK), called 'Lest we Forget ~ Filey" it was placed in a public garden near a war memorial. Such a great idea, especially considering 2014 marks the beginning of the First World War.

 

Nobody ever did say how the First World War began in the future...and I honestly don't know enough about it to figure out what the OP meant to say. Is anyone able to enlighten me?

I assume the OP was referring to a major anniversary. July 28, 2014 will mark 100 years since the outbreak of World War I. Most sources give that date in 1914, when the first shots were fired by Austria-Hungary, as the beginning of what was then called "The Great War." or "The War to End all Wars". If only.

 

--Larry

[+terratin]

I am working on a Medal of Honor series to place in and around my area that will incorporated locations specifically for veterans whether they heal them, aid them, are a meeting place to wash away their troubles, etc. My biggest hurdle to placing them is landowner permission at this point. I have my first one ready to go, just need owners permission.

 

Doesn't really sound like light family friendly entertainment, to be honest

[+basscat5]

I am working on a Medal of Honor series to place in and around my area that will incorporated locations specifically for veterans whether they heal them, aid them, are a meeting place to wash away their troubles, etc. My biggest hurdle to placing them is landowner permission at this point. I have my first one ready to go, just need owners permission.

 

Doesn't really sound like light family friendly entertainment, to be honest

 

I totally disagree...What better way to educate families on the sacrifices that have been made so that we have the Freedoms to enjoy our past times...Like Geocaching.... Those freedoms came at a heavy cost and the more we can do to educate future generations the better off we will be.....If it comes while doing a great past time like Geocaching even the better...They will probably retain the message better when in the field than in a classroom..

 

As far as using Geocaching to bring Vets together, I think it is an awesome idea....If I ever get in the area I would make it a point to be there..

Edited November 22, 2013 by basscat5

[+terratin]

well.. might be a case of different mentality... Just keep the solicitation guideline into mind when placing these caches:

"4. Solicitation and Commercial Content

 

Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose.

 

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable."

[+basscat5]

well.. might be a case of different mentality... Just keep the solicitation guideline into mind when placing these caches:

"4. Solicitation and Commercial Content

 

Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose.

 

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable."

Where does it say anything about historical??? Fact...Country was at War...Soldier went to war...Soldier committed an act of Valor that warranted a MOH....Cache Hider included the citation in the Cache Description..

 

How is that any different than the millions of Caches that have some historical Data or theme...???

 

I question who has the Agenda.....??? If you don't want to participate in a Veteran themed Cache, then don't...That's your right....but why restrict those that enjoy reading and participating in something that recognizes that part of history??

 

By your logic we should restrict the Easter, Christmas, Halloween, St Patricks day, etc etc Caches because those could be construed as promomting a Religous agenda....Give me a break...

Edited November 22, 2013 by basscat5

[+wmpastor]

^

 

We've got a cache here on a tank at a VFW post called "Tanks for your Service." (Magnetic, I think.)

[JASTA 11]

well.. might be a case of different mentality... Just keep the solicitation guideline into mind when placing these caches:

"4. Solicitation and Commercial Content

 

Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose.

 

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable."

Where does it say anything about historical??? Fact...Country was at War...Soldier went to war...Soldier committed an act of Valor that warranted a MOH....Cache Hider included the citation in the Cache Description..

 

How is that any different than the millions of Caches that have some historical Data or theme...???

 

I question who has the Agenda.....??? If you don't want to participate in a Veteran themed Cache, then don't...That's your right....but why restrict those that enjoy reading and participating in something that recognizes that part of history??

 

By your logic we should restrict the Easter, Christmas, Halloween, St Patricks day, etc etc Caches because those could be construed as promomting a Religous agenda....Give me a break...

 

+ 1

 

Here's a link to our event that I mentioned earlier: http://coord.info/GC4PWTZ

 

I was told that the only reason I couldn't get the event published was because of the image that was near the top of the page originally. You can find the image on our previous post, or in the gallery.

 

Take a look at both and tell me what 'agenda' is being put forth?

[+terratin]

Ok, I admit I was not clear enough. I think it's ok to place a cache next to a memorial and write about it's history. But adding a text like "I placed this cache so you all can honour those who fought" would be agenda. Note to self: don't post on forums after a bad night.

[+basscat5]

Jasta 11...I looked at your post and I dont get what the issue was....Isnt Veterans day a nationally recognized Holiday that was enacted to honor our Veterans???....

This concerns me greatly and makes me question if this is an organization that I wish to continue to support...

If they are going to censor one Holiday over other Holidays that clearly have a message that violates their own rules I have to question their stance..

I am definetly willing to listen to the other side of the story but right now I am confused....

Edited November 22, 2013 by basscat5

[+redsox_mark]

 

Here's a link to our event that I mentioned earlier: http://coord.info/GC4PWTZ

 

I was told that the only reason I couldn't get the event published was because of the image that was near the top of the page originally. You can find the image on our previous post, or in the gallery.

 

Take a look at both and tell me what 'agenda' is being put forth?

 

Firstly I have no issue with the image myself and mean no disrespect to Veterans.

 

The "agenda" is a judgement call by the reviewer. I can see how the image and the text on it could be seen as an "agenda".

 

In a similar way that there will be lots of Christmas themed caches. But a cache with image depicting the birth of Jesus with text "celebrating the birth of Jesus" would likely be rejected.

 

While there will be some inconsistency as different individuals have to judge each case, anything seen as an agenda - no matter how noble the cause - will likely be rejected.

[Keystone]

Ok, I admit I was not clear enough. I think it's ok to place a cache next to a memorial and write about it's history. But adding a text like "I placed this cache so you all can honour those who fought" would be agenda. Note to self: don't post on forums after a bad night.

Terratin, your posts have been fine -- especially this one, since it's so succinct. Thank you for pointing out that the solicitation/agenda section of the listing guidelines is the main issue here. The way to avoid it is to remain factual.

 

Other posters are cautioned to remain respectful of this guideline and of Terratin's efforts to explain it.

[+pq273478]

I found a cache in Filey, North Yorkshire (UK), called 'Lest we Forget ~ Filey" it was placed in a public garden near a war memorial. Such a great idea, especially considering 2014 marks the beginning of the First World War.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was a cache in sight of more memorials, to honour those who fought.

 

I thinking of placing one near, a memorial in my hometown.

 

Is 'lest we forget' already an established series?

 

Thank you

 

Perhaps I should have said that it marks the centenary of the beginning of the First World War.

 

It has been really interesting to read everyone's replies. When I thought about posting this topic, I didn't consider the aspect of 'an agenda', an totally agree that GC should be kept free from political, religious and charity agendas. That said a 'Lest we Forget' type cache is about people visiting a monument/place, the same as any other cache placed near any type of monument.

 

Most cities, towns and villages have a memorial, some with hundreds of names, others have just a couple of names. Many people walk by these memorials every day. Caches placed near them could encourage people to find out more about their local community and it's history.

 

Thanks for all the replies!

[+basscat5]

Trying to educate myself here...I am going to start hiding Caches and wouldn't want to cross a line......Would this statement from the History channel be inline with the guidelines set by Groundspeak???

 

On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918, an armistice, or temporary cessation of hostilities, was declared between the Allied nations and Germany in the First World War, then known as "the Great War." Commemorated as Armistice Day beginning the following year, November 11th became a legal federal holiday in the United States in 1938. In the aftermath of World War II and the Korean War, Armistice Day became Veterans Day, a holiday dedicated to American veterans of all wars.

 

Or how about this historical fact on the Christmas Holiday, it mentions Jesus in a Historical context not meant to promote an agenda..??? Also from the History Channel's website..

 

Christmas is both a sacred religious holiday and a worldwide cultural and commercial phenomenon. For two millennia, people around the world have been observing it with traditions and practices that are both religious and secular in nature. Christians celebrate Christmas Day as the anniversary of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, a spiritual leader whose teachings form the basis of their religion. Popular customs include exchanging gifts, decorating Christmas trees, attending church, sharing meals with family and friends and, of course, waiting for Santa Claus to arrive. December 25–Christmas Day–has been a federal holiday in the United States since 1870..

 

I did a quick search of titles under Veteran...and Jesus(just to see) There are multiple Caches under both titles(some having Military or Religous context in the Cache Description) so obviously it is left up to the discretion of the reviewer and consistency across the board may be lacking...If Jasta 11 would have had a different reviewer with a different mindset from what I have seen in my search there is a pretty good chance his Cache could have been posted "as is"...

 

I'm done with this subject and I get the gist of the wording on the language put out from Groundspeak on their concerns with someone promoting an agenda....I will "Rock on" and see you all on the trail...

Edited November 22, 2013 by basscat5

[+SirDonB]

well.. might be a case of different mentality... Just keep the solicitation guideline into mind when placing these caches:

"4. Solicitation and Commercial Content

 

Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose.

 

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable."

 

Here is the first cache of the series I am looking to place http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4HGVF_moh-dunham-jason-l?guid=e67adf79-52ed-4d18-bcf3-7b63399e4eab, tell me how in anyway this will violate the rules? This listing is with the exception of the citation, will be exactly how each cache listing in the series will be laid out.

Edited November 22, 2013 by SirBowen

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Here is the first cache of the series I am looking to place http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4HGVF_moh-dunham-jason-l?guid=e67adf79-52ed-4d18-bcf3-7b63399e4eab, tell me how in anyway this will violate the rules?

It's not published, remember?

[+SirDonB]

Here is the first cache of the series I am looking to place http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4HGVF_moh-dunham-jason-l?guid=e67adf79-52ed-4d18-bcf3-7b63399e4eab, tell me how in anyway this will violate the rules?

It's not published, remember?

 

didnt know if folks could still view it, just not find it. I am use to it showing up on my account.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Here is the first cache of the series I am looking to place http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4HGVF_moh-dunham-jason-l?guid=e67adf79-52ed-4d18-bcf3-7b63399e4eab, tell me how in anyway this will violate the rules?

It's not published, remember?

 

didnt know if folks could still view it, just not find it. I am use to it showing up on my account.

Still curious. Maybe post the text.

[+SirDonB]

I could do that... but you loose the full affect of the page with out the graphics. I am gonna try and get on the land owner this weekend to see what is taking so long. The location is on land owned my a veteran organization, so there is a chain I have to go through for permission. I want to get the cache up soon ASAP as I am tired of looking at it sitting in my house and want to share it with the caching community.

[+SirDonB]

Here is the basic page

 

GC4HGVF ▼

 

Traditional Cache

MOH - DUNHAM, JASON L.

A cache by Bandit1979 Hidden : 2013-07-30

Difficulty: 1 out of 5

Terrain: 1.5 out of 5

Size: Size: small (small)

 

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Coords with held till it is published

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In New York, United States

NE NE 0.3 mi from your home location

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Please note Use of geocaching.com services is subject to the terms and conditions in our disclaimer.

Personal Cache Note Click to enter a note

Geocache Description:

 

A simple Traditional Cache located not far from the train station. This cache will be part of a short series honoring the living and dead Metal of Honor recipients. Cache honorees will be from the State of New York.

 

What is the Metal of Honor?

 

On December 9, 1861 Iowa Senator James W. Grimes introduced S. No. 82 in the United States Senate, a bill designed to "promote the efficiency of the Navy" by authorizing the production and distribution of "medals of honor". On December 21st the bill was passed, authorizing 200 such medals be produced "which shall be bestowed upon such petty officers, seamen, landsmen and marines as shall distinguish themselves by their gallantry in action and other seamanlike qualities during the present war (Civil War)." President Lincoln signed the bill and the (Navy) Medal of Honor was born.

 

Two months later on February 17, 1862 Massachusetts Senator Henry Wilson introduced a similar bill, this one to authorize "the President to distribute medals to privates in the Army of the United States who shall distinguish themselves in battle." Over the following months wording changed slightly as the bill made its way through Congress. When President Abraham Lincoln signed S.J.R. No. 82 on July 12, 1862, the Army Medal of Honor was born. It read in part:

 

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President of the United States be, and he is hereby, authorized to cause two thousand "medals of honor" to be prepared with suitable emblematic devices, and to direct that the same be presented, in the name of the Congress, to such non--commissioned officers and privates as shall most distinguish themselves by their gallantry in action, and other soldier-like qualities, during the present insurrection (Civil War).

 

DUNHAM, JASON L.

 

Rank: Corporal

 

Organization: U.S. Marine Corps

 

Company: Company K, 3d Battalion

 

Division: 7th Marines

 

Born: 10 November 1981, Scio, N.Y.

 

Departed: Yes (04/22/2004)

 

Entered Service At: Scio, N.Y.

 

Date of Issue: 01/11/2007

 

Place / Date: Karabilah, Iraq, 14 April 2004

 

Citation:

 

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as Rifle Squad Leader, 4th Platoon, Company K, Third Battalion, Seventh Marines (Reinforced), Regimental Combat Team 7, First Marine Division (Reinforced), on 14 April 2004. Corporal Dunham's squad was conducting a reconnaissance mission in the town of Karabilah, Iraq, when they heard rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire erupt approximately two kilometers to the west. Corporal Dunham led his Combined Anti-Armor Team towards the engagement to provide fire support to their Battalion Commander's convoy, which had been ambushed as it was traveling to Camp Husaybah. As Corporal Dunham and his Marines advanced, they quickly began to receive enemy fire. Corporal Dunham ordered his squad to dismount their vehicles and led one of his fire teams on foot several blocks south of the ambushed convoy. Discovering seven Iraqi vehicles in a column attempting to depart, Corporal Dunham and his team stopped the vehicles to search them for weapons. As they approached the vehicles, an insurgent leaped out and attacked Corporal Dunham. Corporal Dunham wrestled the insurgent to the ground and in the ensuing struggle saw the insurgent release a grenade. Corporal Dunham immediately alerted his fellow Marines to the threat. Aware of the imminent danger and without hesitation, Corporal Dunham covered the grenade with his helmet and body, bearing the brunt of the explosion and shielding his Marines from the blast. In an ultimate and selfless act of bravery in which he was mortally wounded, he saved the lives of at least two fellow Marines. By his undaunted courage, intrepid fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty, Corporal Dunham gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.

 

Additional Hints (No hints available.)

[JASTA 11]

Jasta 11...I looked at your post and I dont get what the issue was....Isnt Veterans day a nationally recognized Holiday that was enacted to honor our Veterans???....

This concerns me greatly and makes me question if this is an organization that I wish to continue to support...

If they are going to censor one Holiday over other Holidays that clearly have a message that violates their own rules I have to question their stance..

I am definetly willing to listen to the other side of the story but right now I am confused....

 

I don't get was the issue was either. Especially since the event cache page was almost identical to the ones published for the two prior years. This 'agenda' guideline has been around longer than that.

 

So I posted this Reviewer Note to help state my case:

 

There is no religious, political, charitable or other 'agenda' in this listing. It is not 'pro or 'anti' anything.

 

The event is on November 11th. Veterans Day, formerly known as Armistice Day in rememberance of the end of the First World War.

 

Towns and cities across the country recognize Veterans in many different ways. Without an agenda.

 

Would this still be an issue if it referred to a different holiday? What about Christmas or St. Patricks Day? You have published listings with those themes. Religious? Maybe political? I don't think they had an 'agenda' either, but they were published nonethe less.

 

What if it was 'honoring' some other person or group? You've published listings for firefighters (visit link) , a soldier killed in Vietnam (visit link) , friends who have passed away (visit link) .

 

Then there's groups that do have an agenda. Like the Boy Scouts (visit link) , with their references to 'God' and exclusion of gays. And Girl Scouts (visit link) . Again I don't think that there are any 'agendas' with these listings either but why are they published but this one will not?

 

A quick search of active listings show:

 

- At least six with the title 'Honor our Veterans'

- At least twenty-five titled 'Veterans Day' Including an event (visit link)

- At least seven with the title 'Honor the Fallen'. This includes GC3J2RH (visit link) which you published 18 months ago.

 

'Honor the Fallen' in the title is not dissimilar to the 'Honoring All Who Served' in the graphic.

 

In summary, there is no agenda (actual or implied) in this listing. Should you continue to dissagree after reading what I've pointed out, it's clear that you are interpreting this 'guideline' not only too broadly but selectively and unfairly.

 

I hope that you will consider what I've presented here and publish the listing as is.

 

Thanks.

 

(Sorry the links don't work, but you probably have similarly titled caches in your area also)

 

The Reviewers response was to appeal to Groundspeak, which we did.

[+fuzziebear3]

I don't see a violation, but I don't know about that, or if you had other links or graphics that were the concern.

 

But it is a Medal, not a metal.