Best tool or the one you're most comfortable with

[+SirDonB]

And FWIW, Neongeo doesn't implement turn-by-turn navigation itself. Instead, it allows me to link to Google Navigation. Personally, I think this is a better approach than reimplementing turn-by-turn navigation in a geocaching app.

 

Personally I would like to see NeonGeo detect other navigation apps to let you choose. I also use NeonGeo as my caching app, but never use the navigation feature since it only allows me to navigate through Google Maps and Verizon Navigator. I dont subscribe to Verizon for my turn by turns, I use a much better app that is free for that, in my opinion. I do like NeonGeo's approach to the turn by turn directions though.

 

I have successfully navigated to a cache by targeting the cache in Neongeo, then driving to it glancing at the screen to make sure I am on the right path. The disadvantage I can see is that turn by turns may get you to the closest point to the cache, but not the best parking spot. But I have my way to get to the cache that works for me without turn by turn directions, I never felt the need for them. I can however see times when and were they could be of use.

[NottheMuggle]

I recently began geocaching. I'm using both the website and the c:geo app to hunt with. Currently, I'm just hunting caches around my town, so I don't have any problems with the signal on my phone. When I finally start looking for looking for caches in the countryside (or in other countries, one can dream), I'll get a GPS unit. And when the caches on the map starts getting thin, I'll upgrade to a premium account so I can hunt the exclusive caches. That's the plan, anyways.

[+redsox_mark]

One additional point - I've found a number of caches which required something in the field I would not be able to do with the app (at least not with the official iPhone app, or easily) but can do with a GPSr:

 

1. Project a waypoint

2. Change to a different coordinate notation (e.. British Grid).

[+NeverSummer]

One additional point - I've found a number of caches which required something in the field I would not be able to do with the app (at least not with the official iPhone app, or easily) but can do with a GPSr:

 

1. Project a waypoint

2. Change to a different coordinate notation (e.. British Grid).

OOoooh!

So if one makes all of their caches premium only, and only place caches that require a projected waypoint, one can effectively weed out app users finding of their caches! Brilliant!

 

_{And, effectively sharply reduce the amount of overall finds you caches will ever see being a PMO multi.}

[Clan Riffster]

And, effectively sharply reduce the amount of overall finds you caches will ever see

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[+SirDonB]

One additional point - I've found a number of caches which required something in the field I would not be able to do with the app (at least not with the official iPhone app, or easily) but can do with a GPSr:

 

1. Project a waypoint

2. Change to a different coordinate notation (e.. British Grid).

OOoooh!

So if one makes all of their caches premium only, and only place caches that require a projected waypoint, one can effectively weed out app users finding of their caches! Brilliant!

 

_{And, effectively sharply reduce the amount of overall finds you caches will ever see being a PMO multi.}

 

To both quoted posts on this point/topic... Don't get your hopes up, I have successfully projected waypoints several times with my NeonGeo App. Once I figured out how to do it, that is. So depending on the person, and how well they know how to use the app they have, it is not 100% that you will "weed out" us app users.

[+NeverSummer]

One additional point - I've found a number of caches which required something in the field I would not be able to do with the app (at least not with the official iPhone app, or easily) but can do with a GPSr:

 

1. Project a waypoint

2. Change to a different coordinate notation (e.. British Grid).

OOoooh!

So if one makes all of their caches premium only, and only place caches that require a projected waypoint, one can effectively weed out app users finding of their caches! Brilliant!

 

_{And, effectively sharply reduce the amount of overall finds you caches will ever see being a PMO multi.}

 

To both quoted posts on this point/topic... Don't get your hopes up, I have successfully projected waypoints several times with my NeonGeo App. Once I figured out how to do it, that is. So depending on the person, and how well they know how to use the app they have, it is not 100% that you will "weed out" us app users.

Meh, not really serious about it, but that's good to know.

 

Back on topic...I wondered this:

So, aren't GPSrs and smartphones the tools, and the website the host? So, if we're going to discuss "Best tools", shouldn't we just talk about the tools, and not the host?

 

The tools that would be comparable to the website would be more along the lines of GSAK vs the website...but the website still needs to be used to use GSAK.

 

Anyway, that's what I wondered.

[+SirDonB]

Back on topic...I wondered this:

So, aren't GPSrs and smartphones the tools, and the website the host? So, if we're going to discuss "Best tools", shouldn't we just talk about the tools, and not the host?

 

The tools that would be comparable to the website would be more along the lines of GSAK vs the website...but the website still needs to be used to use GSAK.

 

Anyway, that's what I wondered.

 

That is a good point... The website is more the host and the GPS and phone is more the tool. I could also see how the site could be the tool too, with out the site, you could not have the coordinates to load into your GPS or phone. So one is in effect an extension of the other and the software/apps further enhance the tools.

 

But again, I say the best tool for geocaching is your mind. Without it, you will find nothing.

[+Ambrosia]

One additional point - I've found a number of caches which required something in the field I would not be able to do with the app (at least not with the official iPhone app, or easily) but can do with a GPSr:

 

1. Project a waypoint

2. Change to a different coordinate notation (e.. British Grid).

OOoooh!

So if one makes all of their caches premium only, and only place caches that require a projected waypoint, one can effectively weed out app users finding of their caches! Brilliant!

 

_{And, effectively sharply reduce the amount of overall finds you caches will ever see being a PMO multi.}

 

To both quoted posts on this point/topic... Don't get your hopes up, I have successfully projected waypoints several times with my NeonGeo App. Once I figured out how to do it, that is. So depending on the person, and how well they know how to use the app they have, it is not 100% that you will "weed out" us app users.

Meh, not really serious about it, but that's good to know.

 

Back on topic...I wondered this:

So, aren't GPSrs and smartphones the tools, and the website the host? So, if we're going to discuss "Best tools", shouldn't we just talk about the tools, and not the host?

 

The tools that would be comparable to the website would be more along the lines of GSAK vs the website...but the website still needs to be used to use GSAK.

 

Anyway, that's what I wondered.

I'd consider the website a tool. I've found lots of geocaches with just the website.

[+tozainamboku]

Back on topic...I wondered this:

So, aren't GPSrs and smartphones the tools, and the website the host? So, if we're going to discuss "Best tools", shouldn't we just talk about the tools, and not the host?

 

The tools that would be comparable to the website would be more along the lines of GSAK vs the website...but the website still needs to be used to use GSAK.

 

Anyway, that's what I wondered.

I think one problem is that we don't have and agreement on the activity, and therefore might have definitions for what is a tool.

 

If the activity is trying to find out about what geocaches are available, the underlying geocache database is what you are searching. You can use the website search, you can get PQs from the website and use them with GSAK or another tool, or you can use the app.

 

If the activity is searching for the cache, you can use a GPSr or you can use the app. Some people may use the website to view a map and get enough information they don't need any other tools.

 

If the activity is logging your experiences and viewing statistics, you can use the website, or you can use the app, or can use GSAK along with PQs from the website.

 

So far the app is the only tool that does it all, though it seems it is currently not the best tool for any of the activities in particular.

 

I expect the sample in the forums is going to be biased, particularly when Groundspeak seems to have ruled out making the forums Tapatalk accessible.

 

It seems to me that if you were a casual geocacher who doesn't need to use the search on the website and PQs to plan for big outings or to eliminate large numbers of cache you don't want to find, that the app providing you with a list of the nearest caches may be all the search you need. It certainly seems that the app provides good enough navigation to find caches, though there may be issues with battery life and use in areas where you can't connect. It allows you to log finds and move travel bugs. This may be all the casual geocacher is interested in. As functionality is added to the app, there will be less of a reason to use other tools.

 

(For full disclosure, I don't use the app. I don't even own a smartphone. I get pocket queries from the website and use GSAK to load a selection of caches onto my Garmin Oregon. I upload field notes directly from the Oregon to the website and use the field notes to help me compose logs which I write online.)

[+redsox_mark]

To both quoted posts on this point/topic... Don't get your hopes up, I have successfully projected waypoints several times with my NeonGeo App. Once I figured out how to do it, that is. So depending on the person, and how well they know how to use the app they have, it is not 100% that you will "weed out" us app users.

 

That is interesting, thanks. I wonder if can be done with the Groundspeak app? I've had 2 recent examples of both projecting a waypoint and changing the coordinate datum where I was caching with an iPhone user using the official app, and we could not see how to do either.

 

But I know this is a specific detail and takes us slightly off topic.. and the apps can get better to take on the full functionality of a GPSr (and more).

[+NeverSummer]

Back on topic...I wondered this:

So, aren't GPSrs and smartphones the tools, and the website the host? So, if we're going to discuss "Best tools", shouldn't we just talk about the tools, and not the host?

 

The tools that would be comparable to the website would be more along the lines of GSAK vs the website...but the website still needs to be used to use GSAK.

 

Anyway, that's what I wondered.

I think one problem is that we don't have and agreement on the activity, and therefore might have definitions for what is a tool.

 

<snip>

We're splitting hairs on what a "tool" is. I'm trying to say that a tool used in the field such as a GPSr, a smartphone, a compass, or just your brain are tools for the field.

 

Tools for research are the website or the app, really. (GSAK needs the website for PQs, so I'm leaving it out. It's a different kind of tool altogether)

 

I believe that the better tool for researching caches and the finer points of the game is better on the website. The reasons are obvious.

 

As for a tool in the field, any of them have proven to be effective. Many of them are better than others for certain applications in the field. However, I have found the niche for my GPSr and my iPhone when caching. They're both great.

 

But, without the overall "tool" of the internet website, the search tools lose a bit of their usefulness.

 

Think of it this way: I am handed a GPSr with coordinates loaded, and my buddy just says, "There's a treasure at the coordinates. Find it, and sign the logbook." I'd have no idea what the game was about without reading about it on the website, or having a GPSr that displays descriptions and/or cache details. The same goes for the app. I can walk right outside with my phone, download the app, and then simply head out and find "the treasure". But that provides no background, doesn't give a bigger picture, and won't leave the "me" in these cases any more prepared for the rules of the game, or nuances of the hunt.

 

That's all I'm trying to say when I parse out what kinds of tools we are talking about here.

[+Heli Leo]

I load caches into my Garmin Nuvii 500, and my Montana 600. The Nuvii gets me to the area of GZ where when I get out on foot I switch to the 600 to search for the cache. If I need further help the phone comes out with the satellite picture. I use the web site to choose the caches that I want to look for, and to log the caches as I like to say something on the log about the experience and the shape the cache and log are in.

[+JesandTodd]

One additional point - I've found a number of caches which required something in the field I would not be able to do with the app (at least not with the official iPhone app, or easily) but can do with a GPSr:

 

1. Project a waypoint

2. Change to a different coordinate notation (e.. British Grid).

OOoooh!

So if one makes all of their caches premium only, and only place caches that require a projected waypoint, one can effectively weed out app users finding of their caches! Brilliant!

 

_{And, effectively sharply reduce the amount of overall finds you caches will ever see being a PMO multi.}

Projection is easy. I use iGCT for that. Free app

Same with coordinate conversion. Easy peasy. Same app

[+giddeanx]

A tool is anything used as a means of accomplishing a task or purpose. As a web developer, I would consider the website, GSAK and the app as different interfaces to the same database. With that I would consider them all as tools as they are all used manipulate and view the information on the database.

[+SirDonB]

The app I use (see previous posts for name) will also allow me to load and view PQs in it, I have not done this as of yet since I am not being all that picky to the caches I find. When I get to that point, I will play with PQs. As I see it, the smartphone is a compromise to a tool specific for any given application. The smartphone is a good general purpose tool that works in most situations, but when you get out of cell coverage or in an area with a thick canopy, the phone's usefulness diminishes. There are very few exceptions to this, my phone being one, however the one thing my phone will never compete with a true GPSr on is battery life. Untethered to a charger, I will get about 6 hours from my battery, where as a GPSr can give me days from a set of batteries. I am currently on the hunt for a decent GPSr at a reasonable price.

 

So as far as the topic of tools go, the best tool for the job is always the one that was designed to do that job. Short of that, smartphones can still get the job done.

 

From my phone, I can access the full site, as long as I am in coverage, the app relies on the site for all its information as well as cell coverage to update the map and nearest caches. Also the advantage the app on the smartphone has in todays world is that it is portable where the computer to view the site is less portable (yes there are laptops), but they still require you to have an internet connection (yes, a smartphone can over come that as well).

 

Maybe I am a bit old fashioned, but I would rather have the GPSr in my hand to search for a geocache rather than my phone, but till I can change that, I am thankful to have had the exposure to the hobby through my cell phone. If it was not for that, and the research I have done on all Groundspeak sites before I found my first cache, I still would not be out there finding caches and having a good time meeting fellow cachers once in a while along the way. As I go, I am discovering other tools to use, like apps I have to help with some puzzle caches, one app to help with lat/long when placing a cache, etc. I have found people that have a specialty skill that I can use and learn from, particularly with the caches I plan to place, so in a sense the person becomes the tool.

[+tozainamboku]

I believe that the better tool for researching caches and the finer points of the game is better on the website. The reasons are obvious.

Not really.

 

If you're an active cacher who caches over a large area with many caches and wants to select specific types you might require Pocket Queries and perhaps GSAK. The current apps (and perhaps the Geocaching API) don't support these kinds of searches.

 

If you are a casual geocacher who just wants to see if there are any caches near your current location, the app seems superior since it knows your location and can instantly give you a list of the closest caches.

 

The fact is that today there are many websites (Facebook, Google search, etc.) that have apps that provide all the content you can get in a browser and sometimes even more. Many people find the apps are easier to use. Clearly the Geocaching apps that currently exist don't provide all the content of website (at least without having to launch a browser) and may not always provide a better user experience for someone who is used to the website.

 

The point I was making with tools is that the app can be used in place of a number of other tools: the website, a GPSr, and even some parts of GSAK. For many users the app becomes the only tool they need. As suggested by the title of this thread, one tool may not be using the best tool for every task. I have often found myself some place where I hadn't loaded caches into my Garmin, or where the data I had was out of date. Clearly in these instances a smartphone app would have been the better tool.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I like the surplus fold shovels

[+NeverSummer]

I believe that the better tool for researching caches and the finer points of the game is better on the website. The reasons are obvious.

Not really.

 

If you're an active cacher who caches over a large area with many caches and wants to select specific types you might require Pocket Queries and perhaps GSAK. The current apps (and perhaps the Geocaching API) don't support these kinds of searches.

 

If you are a casual geocacher who just wants to see if there are any caches near your current location, the app seems superior since it knows your location and can instantly give you a list of the closest caches.

 

The fact is that today there are many websites (Facebook, Google search, etc.) that have apps that provide all the content you can get in a browser and sometimes even more. Many people find the apps are easier to use. Clearly the Geocaching apps that currently exist don't provide all the content of website (at least without having to launch a browser) and may not always provide a better user experience for someone who is used to the website.

 

The point I was making with tools is that the app can be used in place of a number of other tools: the website, a GPSr, and even some parts of GSAK. For many users the app becomes the only tool they need. As suggested by the title of this thread, one tool may not be using the best tool for every task. I have often found myself some place where I hadn't loaded caches into my Garmin, or where the data I had was out of date. Clearly in these instances a smartphone app would have been the better tool.

Sure, but not for learning more about the game.

 

Knowledge Books, Guidelines, Forums, easy access to bookmark listings, contacting other players, viewing your own account... Can't get that from apps. At least not the ones I've used

[+tozainamboku]

 

Sure, but not for learning more about the game.

 

Knowledge Books, Guidelines, Forums, easy access to bookmark listings, contacting other players, viewing your own account... Can't get that from apps. At least not the ones I've used

I'm not sure if you are trying to bring the other thread over here. In my OP I said I didn't really want this thread to debate whether the Intro App contributes to bad geocaching habits. Instead it was to discuss what technology people use and whether it is the best for a task.

 

If the task is "learning the finer points of the game", then perhaps the existing apps fall short of the capabilities of the website. There is certainly material on the website including Geocaching 101, Help Center, cache placement guidelines, and these forums, which cannot be accessed directly from the apps.

 

The Intro App however does provide tips and instructions. The other thread may be the better place to debate if the tips and instructions are not going deep enough or if players who discover geocaching through the Intro App aren't being directed to website to find out more. As far as this thread goes, I will concede that if someone wants to dig deeper that than the basic information needed to do an occasional casual cache hunt, than the website provides far more information than the apps.

[+NeverSummer]

 

Sure, but not for learning more about the game.

 

Knowledge Books, Guidelines, Forums, easy access to bookmark listings, contacting other players, viewing your own account... Can't get that from apps. At least not the ones I've used

I'm not sure if you are trying to bring the other thread over here. In my OP I said I didn't really want this thread to debate whether the Intro App contributes to bad geocaching habits. Instead it was to discuss what technology people use and whether it is the best for a task.

 

If the task is "learning the finer points of the game", then perhaps the existing apps fall short of the capabilities of the website. There is certainly material on the website including Geocaching 101, Help Center, cache placement guidelines, and these forums, which cannot be accessed directly from the apps.

 

The Intro App however does provide tips and instructions. The other thread may be the better place to debate if the tips and instructions are not going deep enough or if players who discover geocaching through the Intro App aren't being directed to website to find out more. As far as this thread goes, I will concede that if someone wants to dig deeper that than the basic information needed to do an occasional casual cache hunt, than the website provides far more information than the apps.

I disagree. This thread is talking about which tool is the best, or one I'm most comfortable. As we debate what is meant by "tool", it is an important differentiation to address where a tool falls short versus another one.

 

Otherwise, we're comparing apples to internal combustion.

 

So, as a tool for the overall game, the website is where I'm noting my "best" or "most comfortable" vote. For in-the-field use of a tool,

 

I would say that the Apps are great for finding caches, especially if one needs to have a paperless option and if you're an experienced cacher. I believe that a GPS is the best tool for the overall geocaching game, as they are waterproof, have long battery life, have dedicated GPS function, and are very durable.

 

I think all three tools I mention have their strengths within their niche. But I would say that the best combination of tools is the website and a GPSr. Simply using the apps is not going to do the most effective job of fostering well-rounded cachers. But, that's just my opinion.

 

And, before the usual suspects get their undies in a bundle claiming that I must have it out for app users, let me say again that I use my iPhone with apps to cache about 95% of the time now. However, whenever I'm placing a cache or on a hike where cell service or weather/durability questions come into play, I'm bringing my GPSr. I like the apps. I enjoy using them. But I think my experience as a geocacher is set up for success because of the background of using the website for instruction, reference and research, and my GPS to help me understand how to use a GPS-enabled tool to find a waypoint, record a waypoint, and navigate to multiple points in space. Now that the apps are around, I already have my GPS, and I am quite familiar with the guidelines, I think my iPhone makes for a great fit for me.