Letter sent on geotrash.

[+TriciaG]

**removed**

Edited November 7, 2013 by TriciaG

[+L0ne.R]

I look at all the information available to me. If someone emails me and asks me to put their cache back, I'd be happy to do it. Hasn't happened yet.

 

So, in simple words, being not an owner of an archived geocache I still can retrieve it if I believe it's litter. Based on my own knowledge and understanding, whatever the geocaching guidelines say.

 

Logical conclusion would be that I can improve the cache by myself if I believe it's not properly maintained according to the information that I have.

 

Thus, throwdowns are OK. A good guy just places a new container after a series of DNFs. He uses the information he has and his geocaching experience/knowledge. No calls to the CO. No intention to return to the place again. If someone emails the throwdowner that he wasn't right he will go and retrieve his new hide.

 

I'm confused. In your scenario, a cacher visits a cache of yours that you placed then archived. Unbeknownst to him, because you did not put a message on the archived cache that you were re-using the cache and location, he takes the cache because he thinks it's geolitter. How is placing a throwdown a better idea?

 

I still think that it is the responsibility of the cache owner to make people aware that the cache is active and not geolitter. It could be done on the cache page and in the physical container. Removing abandoned archived caches and leaving a note on the archived page offering to return the container, is a much better service then leaving geolitter.

[+alien55]

The distinction between geocache and geotrash probably has meaning only to the geocaching community. To everyone else, all cache containers are probably thought of as litter regardless of whether they are active or archived.

[+MKFmly]

medoug

Was I out-of-line sending this message to them? Was I being a "geocop" and sticking my nose where it's none of my business?

Frankly, yes and yes. As valid as your point is no cacher is seeking to get lectured on cache maintenance etiquette, especially from an unknown online persona.

 

I guess what bothered me the most was that these hiders were able to find the time to hide many more caches, yet didn't take the time to remove their archived cache containers.

...

 

In my above post I mentioned that these are not the type of caches I like to find. I also don't have the spare time to spend an hour or more (maybe) finding each micro in the woods. Not in the least bit enjoyable for me..

...

 

Leaving non-natural, non-biodegradable items in the woods with no continued purpose or no intention to ever remove them is littering. I want beautiful natural areas to stay beautiful... that's why I care.

Fair enough and that is a noble goal however you may find it further your goal by CITOing roads, trails, shorelines, parks, etc., for litter than overly concerning yourself regarding archived "geotrash" (micros in the woods that take hours to find or are not findable). Realistically, anyone CITOing for 10 minutes on any public road, trail or park, would collect 50 times the equivalent litter of a "micro" in the woods...leveraging your impact helping those natural areas to stay beautiful...

 

(It could be argued that (notwithstanding the geotrash perspective) an archived cache in place is much less of an environmental impact than active caches. Sensitive flora/fauna, geotrails, erosion, etc.)

 

I recommend a moment of reflection about what your real motivation was.

QFT, as it appears from the discussion that it is the aledged behaviour of these cachers in particular that is at issue, and not necessarily the overreaching issue of "geotrash".

[+-CJ-]

a cacher visits a cache of yours that you placed then archived.

 

So, he knows that the cache was archived and that most probably the cache has gone. Nevertheless he visits the location and searches for the container. Right?

 

you did not put a message on the archived cache that you were re-using the cache and location, he takes the cache because he thinks it's geolitter

 

First, it's good practice for me as a CO to include a message describing my plans for the hide and its current status. Second, there is a cache hunter who cares about geolitter. Let's say I didn't add that message to my listing. What I say is that this fact doesn't mean that the cache hunter becomes the owner of the cache and is allowed to move the container. It means the lack of information. This problem can be solved by calling the CO. If the cache owner doesn't respond it's also not good but does not automatically mean that he lost his ownership.

 

How is placing a throwdown a better idea?

 

It's just an example. Throwdowning may be explained by the same approach: "Because the thinks". He's not the cache owner to do maintenance, to move or place a container. He did not contact the CO for additional information. However he thinks that the cache was not in its place - so he places a trowdown.

 

I still think that it is the responsibility of the cache owner to make people aware that the cache is active and not geolitter.

 

I agree. I also agree with the idea that geolitterig is bad. (Well, I've organized all CITO events in my area for years ).

 

Removing abandoned archived caches and leaving a note on the archived page offering to return the container, is a much better service

 

The very first message in this thread says that the caches were archived recently. Were they not only archived but also abandoned?

 

I wonder what is so difficult in contacting COs of what you think may be a geolitter?

[medoug]

The very first message in this thread says that the caches were archived recently. Were they not only archived but also abandoned?

 

I actually sent the original message some time ago. 6 of the "archived" caches had been found since then. The last 3 were found nearly 2 months after they were initially archived. Yes, I would say that they were also "abandoned".

[medoug]

**removed**

Edited November 8, 2013 by medoug

[medoug]

**removed**

Edited November 8, 2013 by medoug

[medoug]

Hi,

I'm medoug,

I'm a "geocop",

but I can change,

if I have to,

I guess.

[+TriciaG]

Don't change. Geocops are a needed part of the game.

[4wheelin_fool]

Well you can't nag someone to clean up after themselves, because it doesn't work and they usually get grumpy. Believe me, I've tried (in other venues). You also should not clean up after them without notifying them first. If you want to motivate them, you could open another account and pose as a reporter. Ask them about their archived caches and if leaving the litter behind is normal practice. This may not work, but the scenario is always possible..