Letter sent on geotrash.

[medoug]

I recently sent the below message to an area caching team (details replaced in {} to provide anonimity):

 

"Hi {caching team},

I attended {nearby caching event} last weekend. During the event, it was mentioned by some of the other cachers in attendance that you had recently archived quite a few {local city} area geocaches that you had hidden, but hadn't retrieved the old cache containers. Some, including I, felt that leaving the containers unretrieved is a form of littering. This even has a name in geocaching circles, "geotrash", and is generally frowned upon. Geocaching is often under scrutiny as we utilize many public lands (parks, roads, etc.). To keep on good terms with the managers of these lands, I'm kindly asking you to strongly consider retrieving your archived cache containers.

 

Thank you,

medoug."

 

Note that this team is still quite active and had hidden many newer caches after they had archived their earlier ones. These aren't the type of cache that I enjoy hunting, so I won't be looking for them. Also, most of these caches were cheap plastic vials which aren't particularly good containers worth retrieving for most cachers' use.

 

Was I out-of-line sending this message to them? Was I being a "geocop" and sticking my nose where it's none of my business?

 

medoug.

 

P.S. I did not receive a response, and have no idea if any of their containers had since been retrieved.

Edited November 5, 2013 by medoug

[+WarNinjas]

I know around here many like to log on archived caches they have found to still be there. So maybe not trash. I felt bad once we took a archived container just to clean up the trash when we found the new one nearby and realized later some might have wanted to find it. Not at all saying they shouldn't pick them up just saying others might find fun in finding it.

[+T.D.M.22]

To be honest I believe it crossed the line. First of all, you were told they left them. You didn't see for yourself. Second, they very well could have been removed and someone either want's to make the team look bad, or they just got there before removal. Then how do we know they didn't try? Maybe one person said he would do it, then got sick, or forgot about it. You'd be making the whole team look bad because someone didn't do as they said they would-and the team might not have even knew they hadn't been removed yet.

 

I do think in a situation like this, that letter could come across as trying to cause trouble (I took it as almost accusational). Maybe you could have talked face to face, or even something along the lines of "I heard some of your archived caches are still out. If you want, I could remove XYZ and ABC. They're on my way home from work, so it wouldn't be a problem."

[medoug]

Just for clarity....

 

The members of the caching team share a single geocaching name used for their hides. Also, the message was sent to this single geocahing account only, and was not shared with other area geocachers to further propagate angst against these geocachers as might have been suggested. The above post is the first time my message had been shared with others. I doubt that any of the local cachers visit these forums much and as stated, names and details have been withheld.

 

I guess what bothered me the most was that these hiders were able to find the time to hide many more caches, yet didn't take the time to remove their archived cache containers. A couple of months had passed from the time the old caches were archived and when people had verified that they hadn't actually been retrieved.

[+stijnhommes]

While some people might like to find archived caches, for me archived is archived. Retrieve old caches that are no longer in play.

 

Medoug: you might also want to check what got the caches archived. If the reviewer sent a message that went unanswered by the CO, the chance of them retrieving old caches is slim, since they didn't bother with maintenance either.

[+NeverSummer]

Go pick up the caches from the archived listings. Email the owners telling them that you picked up their old containers, and they are welcome to pick them up from you, or you can deliver them to a predetermined location.

 

Oh, wait. That ship has sailed. Honestly, best of luck rebuilding bridges.

[medoug]

Go pick up the caches from the archived listings. Email the owners telling them that you picked up their old containers, and they are welcome to pick them up from you, or you can deliver them to a predetermined location.

 

In my above post I mentioned that these are not the type of caches I like to find. I also don't have the spare time to spend an hour or more (maybe) finding each micro in the woods. Not in the least bit enjoyable for me.

 

Oh, wait. That ship has sailed. Honestly, best of luck rebuilding bridges.

 

Was it really that bad? That's why I asked about it here. I guess I was trying to share my feelings, educate them (if needed) on proper caching edicate, and suggest that they take action to make it right.

Edited November 5, 2013 by medoug

[+dprovan]

Go pick up the caches from the archived listings. Email the owners telling them that you picked up their old containers, and they are welcome to pick them up from you, or you can deliver them to a predetermined location.

 

Oh, wait. That ship has sailed. Honestly, best of luck rebuilding bridges.

+1. Instead of criticizing, the OP should have explained what they heard and offered to help, either by picking up the containers or adopting the caches. That would be the friendly way to convey the same idea, but without accusing or antagonizing.

[medoug]

Medoug: you might also want to check what got the caches archived. If the reviewer sent a message that went unanswered by the CO, the chance of them retrieving old caches is slim, since they didn't bother with maintenance either.

 

Looking at some of the archiving posts, it sounds like they were tired of those old caches and felt it was time to put out new fresh ones. Archiving appeared to be voluntary. No signs of being asked or forced to archive them. As I mentioned, this team appears to be active cache hiders, not ones that started caching and have since grew tire of it.

[+NeverSummer]

Go pick up the caches from the archived listings. Email the owners telling them that you picked up their old containers, and they are welcome to pick them up from you, or you can deliver them to a predetermined location.

 

In my above post I mentioned that these are not the type of caches I like to find. I also don't have the spare time to spend an hour or more (maybe) finding each micro in the woods. Not in the least bit enjoyable for me.

 

Oh, wait. That ship has sailed. Honestly, best of luck rebuilding bridges.

 

Was it really that bad? That's why I asked about it here. I guess I was trying to share my feelings, educate them (if needed) on proper caching edicate, and suggest that they take action to make it right.

 

If you are unwilling unable not going to be bothered to... If you aren't interested in even finding them, why are you so concerned?

 

Honestly, if you took the time to get in a mood to write that mail to them, you have the energy to go out and retrieve the geotrash. If it mattered enough to you to write what you did, you should have the conviction to back it up. Go, pick up the geotrash, and move along.

 

It's not that your email was "that bad", it's that it was a bit misguided. Try to be constructive. And if you can't be bothered to remove the very geotrash you are reporting, what's the point? When someone asks me to do something and won't do so themselves, they are a nag. When they do it, then call it to my attention, they've got my attention.

[+fizzymagic]

<snotty letter snipped>

 

Was I out-of-line sending this message to them?

 

Yes.

 

Was I being a "geocop" and sticking my nose where it's none of my business?

 

Yes.

[+tallglenn]

Sorry, but your eMail sounds preachy and arrogant. I'm surprised you had no shame in posting it here.

 

You went to an event and participated in gossip about someone, then lectured them about something you HEARD??? I'm not a social genious, but I would never put myself in that position.

 

[Edited by Moderator]

 

Go and investigate - oh wait, you don't care for that type of hide. You have no proof what you heard is true.

 

There is no rush to pick up archived caches. I remember taking months to pick up in the past. I have a few I need to pick up currently as we have been on the road lately. Just as they didn't harm anyone while they were active, they don't harm anyone while they are archived. I'll get to them when I get to them. We would all probably be shocked at the percentage of archived caches still in place around the country.

 

You may consider a follow-up eMail apologizing for your impropriety and offer to help.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Keystone
Potty language removed by moderator

[JASTA 11]

If it's archived, it needs to be removed regardless if somebody thinks it's really cool to find archived caches later on.

 

Chances are that if they didn't go out and recover the containers when they archived them, then your little message fell on deaf ears.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Scenario:

Cacher "X" has 36 hides, archives eight and retrieves all but one those (for whatever reason);

Cacher "A" finds that single, archived cache placement still in place;

(BINGO -- rumor starts as per the story given by OP);

Cacher "0", with no first-hand knowledge of anything regarding this issue, of his/her own volition, ventures forth and creates a new enemy (at least one)...

 

 

Sounds to me as though grovelling and "eating of crow" may be in order...

Edited November 5, 2013 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+TriciaG]

Organize a CITO event!

[+jellis]

It is the COs responsibility to clean up their cache. If it is a good location someone will put a new cache there. You don't have to but if you want you can pick them up if your nearby them, but you don't have to go out of your way to retrieve them.

[+L0ne.R]

It is the COs responsibility to clean up their cache.

 

Exactly.

 

They set a poor example. I can understand calling them out on their poor caching practices but I also see how the letter oversteps. But I also understand why medoug wanted to help the community by hopefully making the COs aware that people are commenting on their poor cachemanship and it's not acceptable.

Edited November 5, 2013 by L0ne R

[+L0ne.R]

What would be worse is if the COs leave their archived caches, plant near their archived caches, then encourage people to find both and log both. That could be circumventing the .1 mile guideline. Is that happening?

Edited November 5, 2013 by L0ne R

[+uxorious]

Honestly, if you took the time to get in a mood to write that mail to them, you have the energy to go out and retrieve the geotrash. If it mattered enough to you to write what you did, you should have the conviction to back it up. Go, pick up the geotrash, and move along.

 

Why is it the OPs duty to go pick up the trash? I get quite upset if I see someone throw trash out of their car, but that doesn't mean I have to go pick it up. Someone has been tossing empty beer cans on the private road that several home back in here share. If I ever found out who it was I might just write a similar letter. That doesn't mean it becomes my duty to pick up after the pigs. (I usually do though.)

 

If the owners of these caches really did archive them and leave them out to be trash, They are slobs that can bring a bad rep. to Geocaching. I have no sympathy for them if someone calls them out on it. It still doesn't make it anybody's responsibility other than their own to clean up their own mess.

[+SwineFlew]

Organize a CITO event!

Uh huh... that what I though.

[+SwineFlew]

Something to think about... is it geo litter if the wind, animal, or muggle move the cache out of the hiding place to a place where cachers cant find it? I am sure this happen plenty of time. If you don't secure your cache, is it geo litter if it got moved?

[+uxorious]

Something to think about... is it geo litter if the wind, animal, or muggle move the cache out of the hiding place to a place where cachers cant find it? I am sure this happen plenty of time. If you don't secure your cache, is it geo litter if it got moved?

 

Litter is litter. However, some litter we can do something about, and some is going to happen as life is lived.

 

I was following my brother on the freeway one day, and a piece of paper blew out of his sunroof. He didn't know until we got to where we were going, and I teased him about it. But neither of us were going to go out on the freeway to pick it up.

 

I hope, though, you can see the difference between someone failing to pick up their litter when they should, and unintended litter.

[+dprovan]

Why is it the OPs duty to go pick up the trash?

It's the attitude. Declaring the CO a slob (you) or a litterer (the OP) creates animosity and will typically work against solving the problem. The friendly approach is that this is a shared problem that we're all working on together. Sure, it's the CO's responsibility, but asking if they need assistance keeps the focus on the real problem, the geolitter, and avoids making this about the CO being a bad person who must repent.

 

It's just gravy that you come off looking like a hero if it turns out the CO really wants to clean up the caches and has a legitimate problem he needs help with. I'd hate to send a note like the OP's to someone only to have the response be, "Sorry, I was in a terrible accident, so I haven't been able to maintain or cleanup my caches."

[+bflentje]

I just archived a few caches but left them listed on a competitor geocaching site. If I archive caches, mind your own business unless you have ALL of the facts.

[JASTA 11]

If the OP really wants to irk the CO: Go find the caches, log as found to get the smilies, then remove the geolitter.

 

Maybe they could score a good container or two out of the deal?

 

Just sayin'.

 

[+-CJ-]

I just archived a few caches but left them listed on a competitor geocaching site. If I archive caches, mind your own business unless you have ALL of the facts.

 

Good point.

 

I had similar experience with a series of geocaches that I've archived at the other geocaching website. Some of them have been published at geocaching.com already. Some of them are still out of the game, mostly because I need to check them, or to change them so they are completely within the gc.com guidelines, and for all of them I need to provide translation into English (since they were originally in Russian language only). Thus, I have some geocaches archived. Almost immediately folks at that website's forum started discussion whether I had taken my containers away or they could just take them, move them, etc. "because they were archived already". It took me some time to persuade the most active local "geocops" that their website was not the only geocaching resource in the whole world.

 

Please mind that there may also be different situations with archiving of geocaches. I know at least one case when a cache was archived because there started a long-term construction works in the area and the access to the GZ was closed. That meant that the CO could not access it anymore too. Or, there might be a situation when a CO archives a geocache with intention to publish a new cache of other type using the same container, e.g. a puzzle cache instead of a traditional cache. There might be different stories. So, if I'm in shoes of the OP I will most probably not write to the COs at all or send them questions instead of suggestions/demands. What if a person needs help with his/her geocache rather then my advice not to litter anymore? The letter says "recently archived". Not "half a year ago".

Edited November 5, 2013 by -CJ-

[+uxorious]

Why is it the OPs duty to go pick up the trash?

Declaring the CO a slob

 

I didn't exactly declare the CO a slob. I have no idea if they left the caches out after archiving, or if they archived the caches from this site and list them somewhere else. However, I did say "IF" they archived the caches and left them to rot they are slobs.

 

I also would have no problem picking up the caches to help, but the attitude on here seems to indicate it is not the COs problem, it is everyone else that should take care of it.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Good for you for telling them off. They will probably hate you for it, but too bad, maybe it will make them think twice about their behavior.

 

We have a prolific cacher here who archives caches then puts new ones out, without retrieving the old containers. I actually delivered a couple of archived caches to her door once. She thanked me, but was embarrassed. My 5 year old is learning to clean up after himself. It's just sad when an 'adult' places new caches 10 meter away from the old ones (in one case, she placed a new cache under a bench and left the old one there...centimeters away...)

[JASTA 11]

 

I also would have no problem picking up the caches to help, but the attitude on here seems to indicate it is not the COs problem, it is everyone else that should take care of it.

 

Not true. A responsible CO does maintenance on their caches, that includes recovering archived caches.

 

Our point continues to be that if they couldn't be bothered to pick up their geotrash in the first place then your efforts to remind them of their responsiblity is probably futile.

[+Glenn]

If the OP really wants to irk the CO: Go find the caches, log as found to get the smilies, then remove the geolitter.

 

Maybe they could score a good container or two out of the deal?

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

I thought people stopped doing that in 2006.

[+The_Incredibles_]

If the OP really wants to irk the CO: Go find the caches, log as found to get the smilies, then remove the geolitter.

 

Maybe they could score a good container or two out of the deal?

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

I thought people stopped doing that in 2006.

 

Actually, no. I have a good collection of archived cache containers in my possession. Some I can recycle into new caches. One got turned into a donations box. I quite enjoy going out and finding and retrieving archived caches. I always leave a note on the cache page saying I've got your container if you want it, but nobody ever contacts me....

[+cerberus1]

I just archived a few caches but left them listed on a competitor geocaching site. If I archive caches, mind your own business unless you have ALL of the facts.

Yep.

I know one who used to re-supply with archived hides, some even ammo cans and stopped after a few heated emails.

Guess many think this is the only game in Town.

[+TriciaG]

It may not be the only game in town, but it is certainly the biggest. The chances that the cache is listed on another site is a lot less than that it has been totally abandoned.

 

I like the idea of picking up the container, then posting a log (or emailing the CO) that you have it, if they want to pick it up. That eliminates the geo-trash if it's not listed elsewhere, yet allows the CO to retrieve it if it is.

[+cerberus1]

It may not be the only game in town, but it is certainly the biggest. The chances that the cache is listed on another site is a lot less than that it has been totally abandoned.

 

I like the idea of picking up the container, then posting a log (or emailing the CO) that you have it, if they want to pick it up. That eliminates the geo-trash if it's not listed elsewhere, yet allows the CO to retrieve it if it is.

Why can't you email the CO before you take it?

- That eliminates the question of listings and the owner doesn't have the bother of now retrieving a hide from another, when he left it there intentionally.

Edited November 6, 2013 by cerberus1

[+L0ne.R]

If the OP really wants to irk the CO: Go find the caches, log as found to get the smilies, then remove the geolitter.

 

Maybe they could score a good container or two out of the deal?

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

I thought people stopped doing that in 2006.

 

Actually, no. I have a good collection of archived cache containers in my possession. Some I can recycle into new caches. One got turned into a donations box. I quite enjoy going out and finding and retrieving archived caches. I always leave a note on the cache page saying I've got your container if you want it, but nobody ever contacts me....

 

Same here. Picked up 3 abandoned and archived-by-the-reviewer caches. Left notes offering to return them by a certain date (one month). Nobody contacted me either. Holding on to the cache and offering to return it should work for caches that may turn out to be listed on another site.

[+L0ne.R]

It may not be the only game in town, but it is certainly the biggest. The chances that the cache is listed on another site is a lot less than that it has been totally abandoned.

 

I like the idea of picking up the container, then posting a log (or emailing the CO) that you have it, if they want to pick it up. That eliminates the geo-trash if it's not listed elsewhere, yet allows the CO to retrieve it if it is.

Why can't you email the CO before you take it?

- That eliminates the question of listings and the owner doesn't have the bother of now retrieving a hide from another, when he left it there intentionally.

 

When I put an NA on a cache that has been abandoned, I also offer to retrieve it if the reviewer ends up archiving it, so it doesn't become geolitter. That gives the owner at least a couple of months of a heads-up before it ends up archived and I remove it. Then I keep the cache for another month before tossing it (the containers have never been good quality, the the owners have always been fly-by-nighters). 3 months is plenty of time to let people know that it's viable and listed on another site. It's highly likely if the CO abandoned their cache and listing on GC that it's also abandoned on the other site.

 

If someone lists their cache on another site, perhaps it's a good idea to include that information on the cache page.

Edited November 6, 2013 by L0ne R

[+Ma & Pa]

I will soon be archiving a bike series of ours that has been there for a while. I added a note to all the cache pages that this will be happening, and posted information on local caching forums. A local caching couple has not done the series yet, and they will be going out to do the series next month and picking up all the caches for us. We will be able to re-use any container that is still in good shape

[+-CJ-]

It may not be the only game in town, but it is certainly the biggest. The chances that the cache is listed on another site is a lot less than that it has been totally abandoned.

I like the idea of picking up the container, then posting a log (or emailing the CO) that you have it, if they want to pick it up. That eliminates the geo-trash if it's not listed elsewhere, yet allows the CO to retrieve it if it is.

 

Sorry, but your scenario doesn't not necessarily work for the whole world. Here in Russia if you leave Moscow and go to the country you will see much, much more geocaches listed at the national website then at geocaching.com. No, this game is not the biggest one. At the same time, we (geocachers) are in the rather complex period when some caches are published at one site, some caches at another site, some are archived there and moved here, and vice versa. If you go to the Ukraine you may probably notice there's one more prominent geocaching website in this country with its own database. While geocaching.com surely dominates in western regions of the country it cannot compete in its eastern regions.

 

I cannot imagine that someone could seriously speak about picking up someone's recently archived cache without even asking any questions to the CO. I just gave you an example of people discussing such geocop actions at the different geocaching resource: "The cache was archived here so we can just go and pick up containers". No thoughts about any possibility of these caches being involved in some different game. No ideas about them being significantly changed/revised/transferred. No attempts to call me and ask a question. Why, our game is the biggest one. Maybe such approach lacks respect but who cares. And yes, there are some chances this action could be considered as stealing a geocache but these chances aren't so high.

 

From my point of view, if this situation bothers you then first ask questions, then take actions. You may just don't have enough facts. One short conversation may make situation crystal clear. Maybe the CO will even thank you for your assistance in retrieving his boxes.

[+-CJ-]

I decided to change the type of the cache. It was traditional and I archived it; then re-published it with similar description but different tasks as a puzzle cache. The container was the same. Now imagine that someone can see traditional geocaches (and he visited this particular cache earlier, before archiving) but doesn't see its new puzzle replacement. (E.g. he doesn't like puzzles and filter them out in his PQs). He passes the place by, checks the hiding place, finds a box there and says: "Hey, I know it was archived so it must be litter now! I should take care of it and pick it up".

[+TriciaG]

I would think that the locals would know whether or not another site is more popular than this one. I wouldn't expect out-of-towners to go pick up archived cache containers.

 

I just gave you an example of people discussing such geocop actions at the different geocaching resource: "The cache was archived here so we can just go and pick up containers". No thoughts about any possibility of these caches being involved in some different game. No ideas about them being significantly changed/revised/transferred. No attempts to call me and ask a question.

If the CO is active, I would expect that he/she would post these things in their archive post. "I'm archiving this cache here and transferring the listing to XYZ.com" or "I'm archiving this cache and using the location for something else" would keep the geotrash retrievers at bay, methinks.

 

I think that the vast majority of archived caches are not reused or relisted, but abandoned completely. Thus if their container is left out there, it's litter in the vast majority of cases. What you are referring to are exceptions to the general rule, IMHO.

 

And in the rare case where such an exception is the case, popping off a note to the CO saying, "I've got your abandoned container" gives the CO the chance to respond and say, "It wasn't abandoned. Please put it back."

[+The_Incredibles_]

I would think that the locals would know whether or not another site is more popular than this one. I wouldn't expect out-of-towners to go pick up archived cache containers.

 

I just gave you an example of people discussing such geocop actions at the different geocaching resource: "The cache was archived here so we can just go and pick up containers". No thoughts about any possibility of these caches being involved in some different game. No ideas about them being significantly changed/revised/transferred. No attempts to call me and ask a question.

If the CO is active, I would expect that he/she would post these things in their archive post. "I'm archiving this cache here and transferring the listing to XYZ.com" or "I'm archiving this cache and using the location for something else" would keep the geotrash retrievers at bay, methinks.

 

I think that the vast majority of archived caches are not reused or relisted, but abandoned completely. Thus if their container is left out there, it's litter in the vast majority of cases. What you are referring to are exceptions to the general rule, IMHO.

 

And in the rare case where such an exception is the case, popping off a note to the CO saying, "I've got your abandoned container" gives the CO the chance to respond and say, "It wasn't abandoned. Please put it back."

 

Agree with Tricia. At least in my area, the chance of it being listed on another site are slim to none. Plus, if you take into account WHY the caches are being archived, you'll see the owner has demonstrated no interest in their cache. The ones I've picked up are usually in bad shape, cracked containers, moldy contents etc. or ones where the property owner requested archival due to lack of permission or where stages of a multicache are missing. Other archived caches I picked up were where the CO is an active geocacher and archived the cache to make room for the new one-but is a slob about cleaning up after themselves.

Edited November 6, 2013 by The_Incredibles_

[+-CJ-]

I would think that the locals would know whether or not another site is more popular than this one. I wouldn't expect out-of-towners to go pick up archived cache containers.

 

In my example it was the case when the community members were locals, not out-of-towners. They just didn't think there could be someone playing another game. Their game was "bigger".

 

If the CO is active, I would expect that he/she would post these things in their archive post. "I'm archiving this cache here and transferring the listing to XYZ.com" or "I'm archiving this cache and using the location for something else"

 

I definitely agree with you in this point. This is what I started to do with my geocaches published first at our national website, then at geocaching.com. When I archived some geocache I always put a line telling that the cache was active and available now at (hyperlink).

 

I think that the vast majority of archived caches are not reused or relisted, but abandoned completely

 

Maybe. However "vast majority" is not enough for me to make such decisions upon a particular cache.

 

popping off a note to the CO saying, "I've got your abandoned container" gives the CO the chance to respond and say, "It wasn't abandoned. Please put it back."

 

Then the difference between our approaches is very simple. I suggest first asking, then acting, You suggest first acting, then asking. Who (or what) prevents you from sending an email message before picking someone's container up?

 

If I say "please put it back" will you be happy with the necessity of traveling to the same location again to replace the cache? Is this trip less time consuming then a brief email request? What if you spoil my plans to go to the site the same day to retrive the container by myself? And if this cache is still active at some other website (exception, right), how about people who will fail to find it there because you grabbed it?

 

There was a discussion in this forum when a newbie asked about whether he could help maintaining some geocaches in his area. Some people hurried to advise him not to do this. "It's the responsibility of COs, not yours", - they said. I opposed to this approach. If one has intention to do some good for a cache but isn't sure the best first step would be to contact the CO and ask questions.

 

One more question relates to the ownership and regulations. As far as I understood, the CO must be responsible for his/her cache. If the cache is archived, does this mean that the cache is not owned by anyone? If yes, then your approach fits into the guidelines. If not, then your actions violate the guidelines: the ownership wasn't cancelled and what you suggest is to move the cache from its original location without any prior approval from its owner.

Edited November 6, 2013 by -CJ-

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

Then the difference between our approaches is very simple. I suggest first asking, then acting, You suggest first acting, then asking. Who (or what) prevents you from sending an email message before picking someone's container up?

 

OK, so let's consider the most common case in my area (cache hasn't been maintained, container is cracked, contents are wet with no action from the CO so the reviewer archives it). You email the cache owner and they respond 'Thanks for the offer, but I will pick it up...'. You haven't found the cache yet, so you go there to find the cache and log a find. You leave the cache in place. You place the cache on your watchlist. Nothing for months. The cache owner didn't bother to maintain their cache, they are unlikely to go retrieve it after archival. 6 months later you drop by and sure enough, the cache is still there, so you retrieve it. Why bother taking 2 trips to GZ when 1 would do.

 

Certain cache owners are notorious for not maintaining their caches/retrieving after archival. Local people will know who these people are. There was team here that left lots of archived caches still in place when they quit geocaching. These caches are not on another site. I found one of their caches that was still there, years after archiving. In fact, they were so predictable about not picking up their caches after archival, I have a bookmark list and various locals are going through it, searching for the caches with good success.

 

I think the main thing is, know your area, know the COs in your area and you will be able to decide what's the appropriate action to take.

Edited November 6, 2013 by The_Incredibles_

[+-CJ-]

I think the main thing is, know your area, know the COs in your area and you will be able to decide what's the appropriate action to take.

 

Are you judging other's geocaches' future based on your "knowledge of the area"? This is exactly what I experienced here in my area. People were sure they knew the situation well enough to retrieve my geocaches.

[+-CJ-]

OK, so let's consider the most common case in my area (cache hasn't been maintained, container is cracked, contents are wet with no action from the CO so the reviewer archives it). You email the cache owner and they respond 'Thanks for the offer, but I will pick it up...'. You haven't found the cache yet, so you go there to find the cache and log a find. You leave the cache in place. You place the cache on your watchlist. Nothing for months. The cache owner didn't bother to maintain their cache, they are unlikely to go retrieve it after archival. 6 months later you drop by and sure enough, the cache is still there, so you retrieve it. Why bother taking 2 trips to GZ when 1 would do.

 

Again, you take some situation (perhaps rather typical in your area) and expands it to all possible cases. I regret that such COs are most common in your area

[medoug]

First of all, you were told they left them. You didn't see for yourself. Second, they very well could have been removed and someone either want's to make the team look bad, or they just got there before removal.

 

Apparently at least one local cacher has still been looking for (and sometimes finding) these archived caches. He must had also heard that they hadn't actually been removed. So far, he has found 6 of these archived caches. The last 3 were found nearly 2 months after they were archived. So, I think it's safe to say that the caches are still unretrieved (unless you believe that this finder is also part of this "scheme" to make the cache owner look bad).

 

Medoug: you might also want to check what got the caches archived. If the reviewer sent a message that went unanswered by the CO, the chance of them retrieving old caches is slim, since they didn't bother with maintenance either.

 

The typical archiving note has been "Sorry, past its prime." Nothing about it sounded like it was a forced archival due to unresponsiveness.

 

If you aren't interested in even finding them, why are you so concerned?

 

Honestly, if you took the time to get in a mood to write that mail to them, you have the energy to go out and retrieve the geotrash. If it mattered enough to you to write what you did, you should have the conviction to back it up. Go, pick up the geotrash, and move along.

 

Leaving non-natural, non-biodegradable items in the woods with no continued purpose or no intention to ever remove them is littering. I want beautiful natural areas to stay beautiful... that's why I care.

 

Let me emphasize that these were not quick easy caches to find. They typically have high difficulty/terrain ratings. Most were micros in the woods. Many have had around 50% DNF logs. A few never were found.

 

Why would I spend 30 minutes, 1 hour, or 2 hours looking for something that isn't my responsibility to retrieve, especially when they aren't my kind of cache? (My email to them took maybe 10 minutes to write.) It would be much simpler/quicker for the cache owner to show some responsibility and spend one day to quickly retrieve all of their archived caches.

[+fizzymagic]

Why would I spend 30 minutes, 1 hour, or 2 hours looking for something that isn't my responsibility to retrieve, especially when they aren't my kind of cache? (My email to them took maybe 10 minutes to write.) It would be much simpler/quicker for the cache owner to show some responsibility and spend one day to quickly retrieve all of their archived caches.

 

I see your attitude remains unchanged.

 

Why did you bother to post in the first place? Were you just trying to reassure yourself that it was not rude or something? Sorry to disappoint. It was rude.

 

Your environmental concerns, btw, don't seem to correspond well with your description of the caches as "micros in the woods." I recommend a moment of reflection about what your real motivation was.

[+The_Incredibles_]

OK, so let's consider the most common case in my area (cache hasn't been maintained, container is cracked, contents are wet with no action from the CO so the reviewer archives it). You email the cache owner and they respond 'Thanks for the offer, but I will pick it up...'. You haven't found the cache yet, so you go there to find the cache and log a find. You leave the cache in place. You place the cache on your watchlist. Nothing for months. The cache owner didn't bother to maintain their cache, they are unlikely to go retrieve it after archival. 6 months later you drop by and sure enough, the cache is still there, so you retrieve it. Why bother taking 2 trips to GZ when 1 would do.

 

Again, you take some situation (perhaps rather typical in your area) and expands it to all possible cases. I regret that such COs are most common in your area

 

No, I gave one example. I realize there are all sorts of situations.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I think the main thing is, know your area, know the COs in your area and you will be able to decide what's the appropriate action to take.

 

Are you judging other's geocaches' future based on your "knowledge of the area"? This is exactly what I experienced here in my area. People were sure they knew the situation well enough to retrieve my geocaches.

 

I take each cache as an individual. Before retrieving an archived cache, I look at all the information available to me. If someone emails me and asks me to put their cache back, I'd be happy to do it. Hasn't happened yet.

Edited November 7, 2013 by The_Incredibles_

[+-CJ-]

I look at all the information available to me. If someone emails me and asks me to put their cache back, I'd be happy to do it. Hasn't happened yet.

 

So, in simple words, being not an owner of an archived geocache I still can retrieve it if I believe it's litter. Based on my own knowledge and understanding, whatever the geocaching guidelines say.

 

Logical conclusion would be that I can improve the cache by myself if I believe it's not properly maintained according to the information that I have.

 

Thus, throwdowns are OK. A good guy just places a new container after a series of DNFs. He uses the information he has and his geocaching experience/knowledge. No calls to the CO. No intention to return to the place again. If someone emails the throwdowner that he wasn't right he will go and retrieve his new hide.

Edited November 7, 2013 by -CJ-