Jump to content

INTRO APP users are killing the hobby


jshults (Rally Dude)
Followers 15

Recommended Posts

I'm not convinced that the intro app, in and of itself, has any power to attract scorched earth cachers. We are humans, and in any given group of humans you'll find a percentage who believe they must succeed, (however they measure success), at any cost, even if that means destroying the environment. I think the real problem with the intro app is that it offers no means of correcting such behavior.

...I think Intro App users are simply an easy target to blame for any problems. Trouble is that all these problems existed long before there was an Intro App.

 

Groundspeak may have statistics to show these problems are worse since the Intro App or worse in areas with higher numbers of Intro App users. I don't suspect that will be shared. All I see is speculation or anecdotes. Hey, there's a new group to blame for all our woes.

 

There are a couple of issues here.

 

Intro app users are separated from the rest of the geocaching community. This has the potential of setting up a dangerous US vs THEM mentality. What is frustrating is that there is no way for those of us who want to reach out to Intro app users to do so. We don't even know if the Intro app users are being made aware that there is a geocaching community that is willing to warmly welcome them in and offer mentoring. How will they know to seek us out of they don't know that we are here?

 

Perception is reality. One of my mentors told me this and it rings true in many circumstances, including this one. The perception is that Intro app users don't care about the hobby or the environment. The reality is that the Intro app is very successful in exposing a lot of people to geocaching. While it is bring a lot of people who respect the hobby and the environment it is also bring those who don't. The more successful the Intro app is the more of both type of people will show up. But that only increases the number of people who use apply the scorch-the-earth style to geocaching. In fact, it reenforces the perception that Intro app users use a scorched-earth method to find geocaches. The Intro app appears to be a victim of it's own success.

 

So, maybe, it would help to have a way to prevent overly casual use of the Intro app. Make the Intro app cost something to download. It can a very little amount, like 99 cents. If I see a free app and I think I'm even a little bit interested I'll download it. If it turns out that I don't like it I can always remove it. If the app needs to be bought, even if it is something as little as 99 cents, I at least give it a little thought and maybe even read some reviews to see if this is what I really want. When my kids ask me to download an app and it's free a might glance at the description quickly but I don't think I've ever not allowed them to download a free app. If the app cost money, even 99 cents, I take a closer look. If it turns out that it is something I don't think it is appropriate from their age or that they will get board with it quickly I tell them no. If it is something that I think we should be doing together then I tell them to wait until we have time together before downloading the app.

I said it a handful of pages back:

 

3 stages of apps:

-Free App: Only allows certain number of finds (say, like 5) before it "expires". Users are then led to the website to learn more and to sign up.

-99 cent App: Increases the amount of caches that can be found, but is limited to non-PMO caches, etc. REQUIRES validated geocaching.com account.

-$10 App: As is...but requires a validated geocaching.com account.

 

The first two apps have more build in links and how-tos. A nag screen should appear in them to remind them to go to the website to learn more, and also to upgrade.

 

The bottom line is that the website needs to be hard-wired to require validation, and creation of an account on an App should require a valid account from the website.

 

Not unlike many other apps that require existing account info, this one can as well. Think of banking apps, airline flight apps, etc. All of those require that you enter valid credentials to use them. Once the loophole is closed at geocaching.com for valid emails and accounts, then we can see integration into the app.

 

As an aside, did anyone else notice that there is a position open at Groundspeak for an iPhone App developer?

 

Let's summarize the best parts of this thread!! (IMO)

 

Very limited free app-5 finds

$0.99 intro app.

*** Both the free and the intro app should have tutorial elements built in ***

Full app-remains unchanged

 

Must watch a "how to" video before any app is functional. If watching a video is to tiresome or difficult for newbies, then they will not commit to the game anyway.

 

*** validated email address required for ALL users BEFORE any coordinates or maps are made visible and any logging is allowed ***

 

A supportive and welcoming communtiy to the newbies

 

Grayed out txt encouraging better logs

Loved your summation. I injected my own IMO.

 

And I made a change for what I would like to expand on it.

It keeps coming up page after page, so I thought I'd make sure to post again to help those stopping in for the first time and don't want to take the time to read...15 pages. :blink:

 

For those new folks who have come by for a read, or to participate, please know that it isn't "newbies" that there is a "problem" with here. The original poster (OP) was a rant that has not seen them return to the discussion. Most everyone here shot the idea that newbies and the Apple App store official Geocaching.com Intro App are "ruining the game" down.

 

The discussion has morphed into a discussion about how to help introduce new cachers to the game in light of the new advances in technology and software, as well as the increased general awareness of the game of Geocaching. This includes:

-Mentorship (not a new idea)

-Holding more events that target and welcome an area's new cachers

-Improving the available Apps to provide more knowledge and understanding of how the game is played

-Requiring that new users (and existing users) have a validated email address (so that cachers can reach them to mentor, offer suggestions, answer questions, etc.)

 

If you're new and have questions about the game, or would like to learn more:

-Go to local events! Meet other cachers, and ask to learn from them

-Take a look around in the Geocaching 101 and the "Knowledge Books" (guidelines for the game are outlined there, as well as detailed descriptions of processes and guiding priciples of the game)

-Be open to accepting the fact that you are new to the game, and there are many folks out there who are willing and able to help you learn how to play (better).

-Be ready to receive constructive criticism.

-Understand that everyone has a bad day, and some folks aren't prepared to give you guidance or knowledge in the manner you wish. Know that there are many, many cachers out there, and there are going to be people that you find are better matches than others.

Link to comment

I'm simply calling BS on people saying it is nothing but endless issues with their caches and it being mostly Intro App users. I don't know if it is outright lying or just poorly thought out assumption.

I see that you maintain quite a few adopted geocaches. It may not be so much BS if it were to happen to you and you are taking a chance posting in the forums in a hot topic. Just saying, it could happen to anyone. There are always someone out there making attempts just to ruin everyone's fun because they can and GS left the door open for them with the not a validated email address. :(

Link to comment

I'm simply calling BS on people saying it is nothing but endless issues with their caches and it being mostly Intro App users. I don't know if it is outright lying or just poorly thought out assumption.

I see that you maintain quite a few adopted geocaches. It may not be so much BS if it were to happen to you and you are taking a chance posting in the forums in a hot topic. Just saying, it could happen to anyone. There are always someone out there making attempts just to ruin everyone's fun because they can and GS left the door open for them with the not a validated email address. :(

 

Up to a point, but let's not pretend that having your nice new "spammer49485@hotmail.com" address validated is going to stop anyone who wants to spoil the fun for others.

Link to comment

I'm simply calling BS on people saying it is nothing but endless issues with their caches and it being mostly Intro App users. I don't know if it is outright lying or just poorly thought out assumption.

I see that you maintain quite a few adopted geocaches. It may not be so much BS if it were to happen to you and you are taking a chance posting in the forums in a hot topic. Just saying, it could happen to anyone. There are always someone out there making attempts just to ruin everyone's fun because they can and GS left the door open for them with the not a validated email address. :(

 

Up to a point, but let's not pretend that having your nice new "spammer49485@hotmail.com" address validated is going to stop anyone who wants to spoil the fun for others.

What about NVM's and IP addresses? :unsure: Not really my problem now, but it did take a nudge to get me to make all of my listings PMO. So all you basic members don't blame me, blame the Frog. :D

Link to comment

I'm simply calling BS on people saying it is nothing but endless issues with their caches and it being mostly Intro App users. I don't know if it is outright lying or just poorly thought out assumption.

I see that you maintain quite a few adopted geocaches. It may not be so much BS if it were to happen to you and you are taking a chance posting in the forums in a hot topic. Just saying, it could happen to anyone. There are always someone out there making attempts just to ruin everyone's fun because they can and GS left the door open for them with the not a validated email address. :(

 

Up to a point, but let's not pretend that having your nice new "spammer49485@hotmail.com" address validated is going to stop anyone who wants to spoil the fun for others.

What about NVM's and IP addresses? :unsure: Not really my problem now, but it did take a nudge to get me to make all of my listings PMO. So all you basic members don't blame me, blame the Frog. :D

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

Can Groundspeak contact NVM's? Normally I don't contact or will I respond to other users anymore.

Link to comment

Up to a point, but let's not pretend that having your nice new "spammer49485@hotmail.com" address validated is going to stop anyone who wants to spoil the fun for others.

 

If someone want to circumvent the "system" they are going to find a way. It's a given. But those are not the type of people we are talking about here. We are talking about people who find this great hobby but don't quite understand it. They have miss step with someone else caches. The cache owner just want to contact then to get things correct with their cache and help the person understand the hobby better.

 

Attempting to reach out to someone and getting no response is okay. At least an tempt was made. But not having any way to contact someone just isn't right.

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

Link to comment

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Someone who creates a disposable email account or just doesn't respond to emails is one thing. Someone is never even given the option to provide contact information is complete different. The issue isn't people that don't want to be contacted. The issue is people who wouldn't mind being contacted not even realizing that it is an option. Not even realizing that there is a face, not a corporation, behind each and every cache that is place.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

 

Geocaching has never been a solitary hobby and as long as cache owners are people it never will be a solitary hobby. Cache owners spend their own time and money to make and maintain the geocaches listed here. Geocachers will, and in some cases must, interact with cache owners.

 

Now, if Groundspeak would like to put me on their pay roll as a Cache Hiding Lackey and then make contact between Cache Hiding Lackeys and Geocachers forbidden as part of company policy then I'd be okay with that. However, since Groundspeak isn't paying me to list my geocaches with then nor are they providing services where their employees maintain my caches. Then I don't find it unreasonable for them to provide me, a cache owner, with a way to reach out to those that find or attempt to find the caches that I have listed on their website.

 

As for people who would rather not be contacted. I've stared hobbies that I though were going to be enjoyable but I quickly discovered either took too much of my time, were too expensive, or required interactions that I wasn't comfortable with. By segregating intro app users from the main geocaching population Groundspeak is doing both groups a great disservice. Imagine finding out about event caches after a couple months of geocaching with the intro app. Then when attending your first event no other person is willing to talk to you after learning your cacher name because rightly or wrongly, the community thinks that you have been digging up cache sites, leaving lids off caches, and moving caches to new location. This is only a hypothetical situation and I'd hope it would never happen but cache owners are people too. They can't be treated like they don't exist and then be expected to continue to maintain their caches and hide new ones.

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

When I tried to create an account via the website with a sham email address, I was unable to sign in because it required the validation code sent to the (sham) email.

 

Now, I don't know if that impacts the ability to sign in with the same username or sham email when using the Intro or Full iPhone App.

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

When I tried to create an account via the website with a sham email address, I was unable to sign in because it required the validation code sent to the (sham) email.

 

Now, I don't know if that impacts the ability to sign in with the same username or sham email when using the Intro or Full iPhone App.

Isn't that what JesandTodd were getting at back on page 13?

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

When I tried to create an account via the website with a sham email address, I was unable to sign in because it required the validation code sent to the (sham) email.

 

Now, I don't know if that impacts the ability to sign in with the same username or sham email when using the Intro or Full iPhone App.

Isn't that what JesandTodd were getting at back on page 13?

They were talking about starting "cold" from the app and signing up for an account. If one has already created an account on the website with a sham email, you might be able to use that username when trying to sign in on the app.

 

However, I don't know if that is possible, because when I signed up a sham email with a new account, I couldn't even log into geocaching.com to create a password for that username.

 

Hmmmmmm.....

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

When I tried to create an account via the website with a sham email address, I was unable to sign in because it required the validation code sent to the (sham) email.

 

Now, I don't know if that impacts the ability to sign in with the same username or sham email when using the Intro or Full iPhone App.

Isn't that what JesandTodd were getting at back on page 13?

They were talking about starting "cold" from the app and signing up for an account. If one has already created an account on the website with a sham email, you might be able to use that username when trying to sign in on the app.

 

However, I don't know if that is possible, because when I signed up a sham email with a new account, I couldn't even log into geocaching.com to create a password for that username.

 

Hmmmmmm.....

- You said earlier you used a PC.

When he entered, by phone, he came up with three caches.

Wouldn't you have to re-enter (sign in) for those caches?

Can you simply invent a name and email and immediately have three caches to look at without logging in (via the app) again?

Link to comment

 

They were talking about starting "cold" from the app and signing up for an account. If one has already created an account on the website with a sham email, you might be able to use that username when trying to sign in on the app.

 

However, I don't know if that is possible, because when I signed up a sham email with a new account, I couldn't even log into geocaching.com to create a password for that username.

 

Hmmmmmm.....

- You said earlier you used a PC.

When he entered, by phone, he came up with three caches.

Wouldn't you have to re-enter (sign in) for those caches?

Can you simply invent a name and email and immediately have three caches to look at without logging in (via the app) again?

I think you're right. One can sign up via the Intro app with a sham email and view caches. No verification. I don't know about the "full" App. And I do know that using a computer to sign up on the website required me to register and verify.

 

I don't know if the attempted PC-entered account is cached somewhere, and you can use that name to activate within the Apps or not. I'll guess no, but I have no idea! :anicute:

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

When I tried to create an account via the website with a sham email address, I was unable to sign in because it required the validation code sent to the (sham) email.

 

Now, I don't know if that impacts the ability to sign in with the same username or sham email when using the Intro or Full iPhone App.

Isn't that what JesandTodd were getting at back on page 13?

They were talking about starting "cold" from the app and signing up for an account. If one has already created an account on the website with a sham email, you might be able to use that username when trying to sign in on the app.

 

However, I don't know if that is possible, because when I signed up a sham email with a new account, I couldn't even log into geocaching.com to create a password for that username.

 

Hmmmmmm.....

- You said earlier you used a PC.

When he entered, by phone, he came up with three caches.

Wouldn't you have to re-enter (sign in) for those caches?

Can you simply invent a name and email and immediately have three caches to look at without logging in (via the app) again?

 

Cerberus, thanks for the heads up

 

Interesting.

 

I couldn't remember my password for my fake into app, so I had to set up another.

 

FakeUserName

Fake email

 

I could NOT log into GC.com OR into the forums with my unvalidated account

 

It just said, error. Way up in the corner it said, "resend validation"

 

So, if I were reaching out to the website, I couldn't do it if I had a fake/forgotten email addy.

 

There.

 

This brings up a good point though. I couldn't remember my password...and my email was nonsense. So once I logged out of my app, and couldn't get back in, I just sent up a new acct and started over.

 

IIBH, I think I've set up a few accts via the into app to test things out

 

FWIW, I can see info on SIX caches. Maybe I can only 'log' three. But I see 6. Well, I see 30 actually. I bet I could navigate to them all...just not having any info. But I could certainly walk until I got close to the dot on the map and begin searching...

 

Here's my log

http://coord.info/GLD75M96

 

Interesting...the auto prompt has been changed.

 

Here's the problem....I set up a fake addy! So I can't delete this log....eesh. (I'll send a note to the CO)

Link to comment

 

Not sure what an NVM is. IP addresses are unreliable, if people start using internet cafes or the free wifi at McCharbucks or some such they still won't be traceable. If the site was going to go to the lengths of blocking people until their email, IP address and device were fully validated it would make more sense to just say everybody has to pay $10/year to have an account at all without exception. It would probably cause a huge number of members to drop off the system but at least it would be clear that every single member had at least some skin in the game. I don't suppose very many people would create an account and pay $10 just so they could go and throw a film pot in the trash.

 

Of course you might have a few disgruntled former members with recent cache lists who took out their frustration on the caches they could still locate, but that's unrelated to intro app users.

 

NVM = Not Validated Member Those folks who are driving me crazy because they can't be contacted.

 

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

When I tried to create an account via the website with a sham email address, I was unable to sign in because it required the validation code sent to the (sham) email.

 

Now, I don't know if that impacts the ability to sign in with the same username or sham email when using the Intro or Full iPhone App.

Isn't that what JesandTodd were getting at back on page 13?

They were talking about starting "cold" from the app and signing up for an account. If one has already created an account on the website with a sham email, you might be able to use that username when trying to sign in on the app.

 

However, I don't know if that is possible, because when I signed up a sham email with a new account, I couldn't even log into geocaching.com to create a password for that username.

 

Hmmmmmm.....

- You said earlier you used a PC.

When he entered, by phone, he came up with three caches.

Wouldn't you have to re-enter (sign in) for those caches?

Can you simply invent a name and email and immediately have three caches to look at without logging in (via the app) again?

 

Cerberus, thanks for the heads up

 

Interesting.

 

I couldn't remember my password for my fake into app, so I had to set up another.

 

FakeUserName

Fake email

 

I could NOT log into GC.com OR into the forums with my unvalidated account

 

It just said, error. Way up in the corner it said, "resend validation"

 

So, if I were reaching out to the website, I couldn't do it if I had a fake/forgotten email addy.

 

There.

 

This brings up a good point though. I couldn't remember my password...and my email was nonsense. So once I logged out of my app, and couldn't get back in, I just sent up a new acct and started over.

 

IIBH, I think I've set up a few accts via the into app to test things out

 

FWIW, I can see info on SIX caches. Maybe I can only 'log' three. But I see 6. Well, I see 30 actually. I bet I could navigate to them all...just not having any info. But I could certainly walk until I got close to the dot on the map and begin searching...

 

Here's my log

http://coord.info/GLD75M96

 

Interesting...the auto prompt has been changed.

 

Here's the problem....I set up a fake addy! So I can't delete this log....eesh. (I'll send a note to the CO)

Link to comment

Haha...I'll email the CO in a few days so he can delete it.

You should use one of your own caches to test in the future. ;)

 

None were close enough to me, right then, for the app to "see"

 

Do I have permission to delete that log using my reviewer powers? It would save you having to provide a lengthy explanation to the CO.

 

You may wish to discontinue experiments of that nature.

 

Yes please!

Link to comment

Poof! That log by JesandTodd is gone. For those who are curious, the "default log" for the intro app -- which was intended just as a suggestion to be edited by the user -- has indeed changed. It no longer contains the oft-scorned "TFTC" acronym. The new text is:

That’s one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache.

Maybe thanking the hider would prompt the user to think "hey, there's a person behind that lock 'n lock container."

Link to comment

 

Interesting.

 

I couldn't remember my password for my fake into app, so I had to set up another.

 

FakeUserName

Fake email

 

I could NOT log into GC.com OR into the forums with my unvalidated account

 

It just said, error. Way up in the corner it said, "resend validation"

 

So, if I were reaching out to the website, I couldn't do it if I had a fake/forgotten email addy.

 

There.

 

This brings up a good point though. I couldn't remember my password...and my email was nonsense. So once I logged out of my app, and couldn't get back in, I just sent up a new acct and started over.

 

IIBH, I think I've set up a few accts via the into app to test things out

 

FWIW, I can see info on SIX caches. Maybe I can only 'log' three. But I see 6. Well, I see 30 actually. I bet I could navigate to them all...just not having any info. But I could certainly walk until I got close to the dot on the map and begin searching...

 

snip%<

 

Here's the problem....I set up a fake addy! So I can't delete this log....eesh. (I'll send a note to the CO)

 

Good observation. I wonder how many people set up multiple chains of accounts for the same reason (new players). From the sound of it there is no mechanism to recover passwords or to even receive any mail from ANYONE via that/those email accounts used but not validated, assuming the system requires different ones each time since it does not allow duplicates, or maybe that is just usernames.

 

Getting it sorted out is very important to most cachers, new and old.

 

Doug 7rxc

Link to comment

Gotcha. The same applies to someone who just creates a disposable hotmail or gmail address because they don't want to get spammed by the site they just signed up for, and don't see any reason they would need to be contacted.

 

Someone who creates a disposable email account or just doesn't respond to emails is one thing. Someone is never even given the option to provide contact information is complete different. The issue isn't people that don't want to be contacted. The issue is people who wouldn't mind being contacted not even realizing that it is an option. Not even realizing that there is a face, not a corporation, behind each and every cache that is place.

 

Sure, although it seems like a more obvious fix to put more information into the app so people know right from the outset what is expected, rather than making them provide a validated email address. Requiring a validated email address means those who don't see why anyone would need to contact them will just create a dummy hotmail account for the purpose, and not giving the information means new players are more likely to get messages from cache owners telling them things they apparently need to know but weren't mentioned in the app.

 

From the perspective of a new geocacher how would you react if you had a go at a new game you thought might be fun, found a couple of caches and then got emails from cache owners telling you that you'd done it all wrong? With the best will in the world some cache owners can be pretty snarky when they send emails, so surely it's better to provide the basics of geocaching etiquette within the app to avoid the situation in the first place?

 

Looking at things from the other side, so to speak, it's easy to see why someone using an app could expect the app to tell them everything they needed to know to play the game. If someone subsequently emails them to tell them they did it wrong, how are they to know whether they are dealing with a person who has something useful to say or a precious ego who doesn't like the newbie hunting their cache? After all, if the information was important the app would have told them about it, right?

 

Geocaching has never been a solitary hobby and as long as cache owners are people it never will be a solitary hobby. Cache owners spend their own time and money to make and maintain the geocaches listed here. Geocachers will, and in some cases must, interact with cache owners.

 

Now, if Groundspeak would like to put me on their pay roll as a Cache Hiding Lackey and then make contact between Cache Hiding Lackeys and Geocachers forbidden as part of company policy then I'd be okay with that. However, since Groundspeak isn't paying me to list my geocaches with then nor are they providing services where their employees maintain my caches. Then I don't find it unreasonable for them to provide me, a cache owner, with a way to reach out to those that find or attempt to find the caches that I have listed on their website.

 

As for people who would rather not be contacted. I've stared hobbies that I though were going to be enjoyable but I quickly discovered either took too much of my time, were too expensive, or required interactions that I wasn't comfortable with. By segregating intro app users from the main geocaching population Groundspeak is doing both groups a great disservice. Imagine finding out about event caches after a couple months of geocaching with the intro app. Then when attending your first event no other person is willing to talk to you after learning your cacher name because rightly or wrongly, the community thinks that you have been digging up cache sites, leaving lids off caches, and moving caches to new location. This is only a hypothetical situation and I'd hope it would never happen but cache owners are people too. They can't be treated like they don't exist and then be expected to continue to maintain their caches and hide new ones.

 

And how is a new geocacher supposed to know all this, if it isn't in the app?

 

When I've told people about geocaching I've seen that quite a few people assume that some central organisation places the caches and seem surprised when they realise that anyone can hide a cache. Once in a while someone struggles with the concept that the idea is to sign the log and put the cache back, they assume the idea must be that you take it away and hide it somewhere else.

 

So once again, if the only exposure to geocaching someone has is a single source of information that source of information needs to be accurate and it needs to tell the new player what they need to know to play the game. Providing incomplete information that doesn't make clear what is expected to play the game does everybody a disservice - cache owners are more likely to find their caches taken away or inadequately rehidden, new players are more likely to annoy the more established players, and both sides get upset with each other. Instead of everybody blaming Some Other Group, perhaps we need to ask why intro app users apparently don't understand what they are supposed to be doing.

 

I agree email addresses should be validated but think the problem is bigger than cache owners not having the chance to tell a new cacher they are doing it wrong.

Link to comment

I agree email addresses should be validated but think the problem is bigger than cache owners not having the chance to tell a new cacher they are doing it wrong.

 

We are in agreement here. I was representing that not validating email addresses like they do on the website is ONE of the issues. I never meant to claim that it was the only issue.

Link to comment

I agree email addresses should be validated but think the problem is bigger than cache owners not having the chance to tell a new cacher they are doing it wrong.

 

We are in agreement here. I was representing that not validating email addresses like they do on the website is ONE of the issues. I never meant to claim that it was the only issue.

 

(Yes, I know I'm replying to myself.) I wonder why Groundspeak doesn't think it is such a big deal to validate the email address of those who use the intro app but at the same time they enforce email validation on the website. If the intro app works fine without email validation then why can't we get rid of email validation on the website as well? (I'm just thinking out loud. Groundspeak please don't do this!)

Link to comment

These hundreds and thousands of INTRO user are killing the hobby....

 

They are stealing caches, hiding caches without ever FINDING one.

They show up for a few days and reek havoc and they are GONE....

 

I'm tempter to go make all 900 of my hides into PREMIUM to keep INTRO people from finding the...

 

NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.

You also seem to be unaware that there are many free geocaching apps on Android and Windows Phone which are just like the normal app on iOS, so if it was removed on iPhones there would still be people using the free app on other operating systems.

Link to comment

These hundreds and thousands of INTRO user are killing the hobby....

 

They are stealing caches, hiding caches without ever FINDING one.

They show up for a few days and reek havoc and they are GONE....

 

I'm tempter to go make all 900 of my hides into PREMIUM to keep INTRO people from finding the...

I invite you to join the many of us that have went PMO with our listings and let Groundspeak keep their Intro App and let us not complain about it. We are given a choice to work around it. :)

Link to comment
NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.

You also seem to be unaware that there are many free geocaching apps on Android and Windows Phone which are just like the normal app on iOS, so if it was removed on iPhones there would still be people using the free app on other operating systems.

Last I saw, the official GC.com Windows app was still free and yes, there are other apps that are free.

It's possible that new folks, unaware of what geocaching really is are using those free apps too.

- The problem is never having to validate email in the intro app to access hides, maybe not the app itself.

 

Geocaching will not "die out" due to a removed app idea.

Edited by cerberus1
Link to comment
NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.
Yeah, because geocaching was on the verge of fading into oblivion before Groundspeak's Geocaching Intro app for iPhone came out...
Link to comment
NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.
Yeah, because geocaching was on the verge of fading into oblivion before Groundspeak's Geocaching Intro app for iPhone came out...

So what is the point of the intro app? I thought the majority of new cachers use a smart phone device and not a GPS unit. Am I very wrong about this? :unsure: I use both myself and prefer my phone over my vista.

Link to comment
NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.
Yeah, because geocaching was on the verge of fading into oblivion before Groundspeak's Geocaching Intro app for iPhone came out...

So what is the point of the intro app?

 

To get people to pay $9.99 for the full app?

Link to comment
NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.
Yeah, because geocaching was on the verge of fading into oblivion before Groundspeak's Geocaching Intro app for iPhone came out...

So what is the point of the intro app?

 

To get people to pay $9.99 for the full app?

Yep.

The intro app's simply a teaser, attracting customers with something offered for free.

Link to comment
NO! Keep the intro app. I think this is the only way to get most iPhone users into geocaching. If the app was removed no one else would find out about geocaching and geocachers would die out.

You also seem to be unaware that there are many free geocaching apps on Android and Windows Phone which are just like the normal app on iOS, so if it was removed on iPhones there would still be people using the free app on other operating systems.

Last I saw, the official GC.com Windows app was still free and yes, there are other apps that are free.

It's possible that new folks, unaware of what geocaching really is are using those free apps too.

- The problem is never having to validate email in the intro app to access hides, maybe not the app itself.

 

Geocaching will not "die out" due to a removed app idea.

 

Yes, geocaching was doing quite well before I-Phone Apps.

Here is a photo of a cache I found recently:

 

f03e7cb8-365d-433b-a3fe-3562d6350be6.jpg

 

Nice cache (for being a peanut butter jar). Nice hide. Nice walk in the park! I enjoyed it.

Previous finder found two caches on his Geocaching Intro App. Does not seem to have been back since.

Someone (of course I can not say that it was the Geocaching Intro App user) left the top off the bottle. It filled with water, which froze. CO is not a prolific geocacher, but has been on recently. She has not yet done anything about my NA log. (It's only been a few weeks.)

Dare I ask? Without Intro App users, this cache would probably still be in good condition? (Or course, it could have been a muggle... But somehow, I doubt that...)

Link to comment

While I agree that the intro app allows a lot of people who will quickly lose interest or not take care while caching, a lot of you are simply calling them "smart phone users". I am not a premium member (yet, I have been really considering it lately), and I also use my smart phone. I paid for my app tho, and I use it a ton as I find it very convenient. I do log into the the GC website from time to time, but not often at all. My point is that not all "smart phone cachers" are bad cachers, or are going to "kill the game". Please stop making it sound like cachers that use smart phones are bad. Cache on!

Link to comment

I had some very concrete thoughts on this thread, and after reading several pages (did not go through all 15), my thoughts have already been stated.

 


  •  
  • Charging 99 cents for the app. Spending money, no matter how nominal, makes people do some research before buying.
  • If the app is to remain free, limit to 10 caches, and require a valid email.
  • Prior to the free app opening, EVERY time, place a disclaimer that the person must agree to that states "Caches are placed and paid for by volunteer members of the caching community. Please respect the cache and the people who placed them." I wonder how many free app users think that Groundspeak pays people to place caches, and pays for the containers.

 

I also believe that Groundspeak should have a live strategy meeting/conference call with GoTo Meeting/or the like with members of the Geocaching community who are IT professionals (and there are a LOT of us here) who specialize in application development, user experience, business/system analysis, and have already conquered the problems around free apps in the business world. The professionals will attend on a voluntary basis, and will help generate/guide Groundspeak toward a solution for the uproar. By asking for volunteers, it would save Groundspeak BIG bucks over calling in consultants to do this for you.

Link to comment

While I agree that the intro app allows a lot of people who will quickly lose interest or not take care while caching, a lot of you are simply calling them "smart phone users". I am not a premium member (yet, I have been really considering it lately), and I also use my smart phone. I paid for my app tho, and I use it a ton as I find it very convenient. I do log into the the GC website from time to time, but not often at all. My point is that not all "smart phone cachers" are bad cachers, or are going to "kill the game". Please stop making it sound like cachers that use smart phones are bad. Cache on!

Thanks for stopping by this thread and offering your story.

 

I'd urge you to read the entire thread to see what has been going on, and what has been suggested. The topic may sound like "cachers that use smart phones are bad," but it has moved away from that rather quickly.

 

Also, there is a nice summary of the positive things that have come out of this thread up the page from your post.

 

I'm a smarthphone user, and I also have a GPS that I use. If this thread were really calling smartphone cachers "bad", I'd have a completely different contribution to this thread. Fortunately, that is not what this thread is saying, or what the vast majority of the content would lead one to believe.

Link to comment

Here is another issue with the Intro App: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=319161

 

If you haven't already, be sure to keep tabs on that thread, as well as its sibling topic for the Intro App. The topic for the Full iPhone App is here at this link.

 

Intro App users are confused about how to get the "full App", and they are "duped" into Premium Membership.

 

Does that upgrade process include validation of an email address for creation of a Premium Account?

 

I know that one can download and install any App without any memberships (other than your iTunes account), but how does the interface with the website and its server happen for each App? (iPhone Intro, iPhone, Android, Windows)

 

Also, why is the Windows App free, but the other full Apps are for a charge?

 

I can't help but feel like if they had a sign-in process like in c:geo, there wouldn't be a problem with validation. Users would have to be owners of an active, validated account created on the website to be able to log onto the apps to search and find geocaches.

 

The Intro (and any other App), should direct people to the website first to create and validate an account. It shouldn't just boot up and take you to geocaches without becoming a member to view the caches we have placed and voluntarily chosen to list on this website and their servers.

Link to comment

I also believe that Groundspeak should have a live strategy meeting/conference call with GoTo Meeting/or the like with members of the Geocaching community who are IT professionals (and there are a LOT of us here) who specialize in application development, user experience, business/system analysis, and have already conquered the problems around free apps in the business world. The professionals will attend on a voluntary basis, and will help generate/guide Groundspeak toward a solution for the uproar. By asking for volunteers, it would save Groundspeak BIG bucks over calling in consultants to do this for you.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This thread is like herding cats. Now bring in professional cats! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

No disrespect as I'm sure you are great at what you do, but I'm sure the professionals that set-up the Obama Care sites are professionals in their own minds also. :D

Link to comment

Whewwwwww!!!!

 

I did some experimenting with the intro app. DONT DO THIS!!

 

I wanted to see if I could get into the website by sending a validation code to a different address other than fake address I've set up (wanted to see if I can post in the forums without ever having a validated email address ) unfortunately my iPad repopulated my username into field each time I tried, and therefore I 'validated' myself right out of the website and the forums!! The website I was able to get back into, but the forums have taken me almost 3 days to get back. Eegads!!!

 

Thank you HQ developers for your help!

 

So, can a unvalidated, intro user send a validation code to another email, gain access to the website and forums, and still not have any viable way to be contacted??

 

Well. I'll never know!! :blink: But I suspect that they can!

Link to comment

:laughing:

Whewwwwww!!!!

 

I did some experimenting with the intro app. DONT DO THIS!!

 

I wanted to see if I could get into the website by sending a validation code to a different address other than fake address I've set up (wanted to see if I can post in the forums without ever having a validated email address ) unfortunately my iPad repopulated my username into field each time I tried, and therefore I 'validated' myself right out of the website and the forums!! The website I was able to get back into, but the forums have taken me almost 3 days to get back. Eegads!!!

 

Thank you HQ developers for your help!

 

So, can a unvalidated, intro user send a validation code to another email, gain access to the website and forums, and still not have any viable way to be contacted??

 

Well. I'll never know!! :blink: But I suspect that they can!

Thanks for yet another riotous report.

:laughing:

Link to comment

Poof! That log by JesandTodd is gone. For those who are curious, the "default log" for the intro app -- which was intended just as a suggestion to be edited by the user -- has indeed changed. It no longer contains the oft-scorned "TFTC" acronym. The new text is:

That’s one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache.

Maybe thanking the hider would prompt the user to think "hey, there's a person behind that lock 'n lock container."

 

I just read the description for the Into app ant the Apple store. In my opinion, adding a single sentence to it might be beneficial. Something along the lines of, "Geocaching is an interactive game where players hide caches for other players to find". Currently, I could understand how new app users could get the idea that some faceless corporation is placing the caches with the idea that the new user will hopefully upgrade and pay them money.

Link to comment

I was thinking the other day, what keeps a geocacher from getting angry, going rogue and stealing caches? Nothing. There's not much you can do about it. People don't need the app (whether free or not) to do as the OP described here. They can log on to the website and get the info and do it. Has nothing to do with an app.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 15
×
×
  • Create New...