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INTRO APP users are killing the hobby


jshults (Rally Dude)
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I understand. But I am curious as to which exact app doesn't require an email address?

It isn't the app, at all. It is the "verification" of membership. All new members are sent an email that they must respond to in order to become a verified member of geocaching.com. If that email is not responded to, they become an "unverified member" and no email will be forwarded to that member's account address.

 

It all comes down to reading up on what one is proposing to partake of/in. It has been asserted that fewer Intro-app users respond to that verification email than do folks who do not use the Intro-app. Apparently some believe the app to be a "git-it and do-it" thing... no reading necessary.

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Once again, our Forum Guidelines come to the rescue:

 

Private discussions: Sometimes, a discussion thread strays off into a friendly dialogue or a heated debate among a very small number of users. For these exchanges, we ask that you please use the Private Message feature that is provided through the Groundspeak forums, or the Geocaching.com e-mail system. Public forum posts should be reserved for matters of interest to the general geocaching community.
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Bumpkins35, the app in question is a free version of the official geocaching app. I know it's available for Apple products. Not sure about Android products. You can read a fairly old review of the app in this article; http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/22/5-apps-for-geocaching/

 

JesseandTodd, in his first post, Bumpkins35 said he read the entire thread. Presumably, because he was unaware that there was a free version available, he didn't make the connection that the phrase "intro app" was discussing a separate app from the one he is used to.

 

Can we get back to the thread now? :unsure:

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Hi everyone. Just got done reading each and every reply to this particular thread. I'm very new to the hobby and have so much to learn still. I know I'll probably hear it for this but after reading all the posts it seems to me that some have forgotten what the definition of "hobby" is. If your not having fun doing it maybe you should look into another hobby.

 

Up to a point the "if you're not having fun try another hobby" works, but only up to a point. If you're trying to play soccer and someone decides to join in but just kicks the ball any which way they fancy the game rapidly reaches a point where it's no fun for anybody except the newcomer. So is the solution for everyone else to abandon the game, or to tell the newcomer how it's supposed to be played? For all geocaching is often a solitary pursuit with little personal interaction between individuals taking part, the interaction just takes place on a different level. If a new player doesn't bother to rehide the cache it disappears, making the game less fun for everybody else. If someone decides that the pretty travel bugs make great keepsakes, the game is degraded for everyone else. And although it's pointless to pretend there's no element of risk involved in leaving things lying around in public where anyone could take them, it surely doesn't hurt to at least look to educate people that for the game to continue to work it needs to be played within some outline parameters.

 

Of course from Groundspeak's perspective every player who tries the game is a potential customer but if the balance tips too far towards getting people to have a go and away from established members who hopefully more likely to stick around then sooner or later caching is just going to become a variation of Munzees but with wet film pots behind signs instead of wet QR codes on the front of signs. If we hit that point it's hard to see it surviving at all - personally I have no interest in scanning QR codes on signs with my phone but neither do I have much interest in hunting an endless succession of film pots stuck to the back of the same signs only to find they aren't even there.

Edited by team tisri
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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

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If you're trying to play soccer and someone decides to join in but just kicks the ball any which way they fancy the game rapidly reaches a point where it's no fun for anybody except the newcomer.

I take exception that characterization of newcommers.

Please explain why.

The very next sentence (you read that too, right?) says, "So is the solution for everyone else to abandon the game, or to tell the newcomer how it's supposed to be played?"

- Sounded okay to me...

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

Oh okay I see now. I get why it is frustrating. Took me a bit to figure it out because I've only found 3 caches so far and I'm not going to hide one til the suggested number of finds is reached. It just never occurred to me why everyone was so upset over the no email thing. Since I myself have not yet hidden my own cache yet I didn't realize that you get notified every time someone finds it or doesn't find it. This post was very helpful. Thanks:-)

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But the right tool for the right job, and the best designed tool for the job. Why settle for mediocrity, amiright?

The problems is that the Intro App is just that.

No. It's not. You missed the part where NeverSummer said the right tool for the job. As it stands, the intro app is not the right tool. As many have mentioned, repeatedly, there are numerous improvements which could be made, which would make the into app a more effective tool for introducing new players to this hobby.

 

If something can be improved, without reducing its effectiveness, shouldn't it be?

You missed the part where I pointed out that there are differing views of the purpose of this tool.

 

For some it is to provide a free and easy way for people to experience geocaching. Download the app, turn it on, and go find your first geocache.

 

For others it appears that they want a tool that takes you through a 12 hour training course to familiarize you with various nuances of geocaching. OK, so nobody has asked for a 12 hour course, but making someone sit through a 10 minute video and read a FAQ before they can find a cache may be just as burdensome for someone who found this as spur of moment thing to try.

 

You also missed where I said that I didn't object to changes to the Intro App. I actually believe that because it can be interactive, it can present information to the users without seeming pedantic.

 

Come on Toz, just a simple validation email that they have to reply to that brings them to a web page that has the links that might be helpful for them. I understand the whole, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink" deal, as evidenced by the quickly locked thread from the guy in the OC, but why not at least try? I added my signature about smartphones nine months ago because I was afraid of this. Geocaching is not just a smartphone game, but the intro app turns it into that.

 

No one should be able to discover an app at the app store and be finding my cache 10 seconds later, unless they have a validated account on the web site! If they don't have the attention span to validate an account, them we don't need them, plain and simple.

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Hi everyone. Just got done reading each and every reply to this particular thread. I'm very new to the hobby and have so much to learn still. I know I'll probably hear it for this but after reading all the posts it seems to me that some have forgotten what the definition of "hobby" is. If your not having fun doing it maybe you should look into another hobby.

 

Up to a point the "if you're not having fun try another hobby" works, but only up to a point. If you're trying to play soccer and someone decides to join in but just kicks the ball any which way they fancy the game rapidly reaches a point where it's no fun for anybody except the newcomer. So is the solution for everyone else to abandon the game, or to tell the newcomer how it's supposed to be played? For all geocaching is often a solitary pursuit with little personal interaction between individuals taking part, the interaction just takes place on a different level. If a new player doesn't bother to rehide the cache it disappears, making the game less fun for everybody else. If someone decides that the pretty travel bugs make great keepsakes, the game is degraded for everyone else. And although it's pointless to pretend there's no element of risk involved in leaving things lying around in public where anyone could take them, it surely doesn't hurt to at least look to educate people that for the game to continue to work it needs to be played within some outline parameters.

 

Of course from Groundspeak's perspective every player who tries the game is a potential customer but if the balance tips too far towards getting people to have a go and away from established members who hopefully more likely to stick around then sooner or later caching is just going to become a variation of Munzees but with wet film pots behind signs instead of wet QR codes on the front of signs. If we hit that point it's hard to see it surviving at all - personally I have no interest in scanning QR codes on signs with my phone but neither do I have much interest in hunting an endless succession of film pots stuck to the back of the same signs only to find they aren't even there.

 

Some Lackey needs to print this post and place in on Jeremy's desk.

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If you're trying to play soccer and someone decides to join in but just kicks the ball any which way they fancy the game rapidly reaches a point where it's no fun for anybody except the newcomer.

I take exception that characterization of newcommers.

 

Seriously? I think that it is the greatest sentence I have ever read in these forums.

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If you're trying to play soccer and someone decides to join in but just kicks the ball any which way they fancy the game rapidly reaches a point where it's no fun for anybody except the newcomer.

I take exception that characterization of newcommers.

 

Care to explain why? And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain why you regard it as a characterisation rather than an example?

 

ETA: I see my newly found detractor's only post is to take exception without explaining why.

Edited by team tisri
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If you're trying to play soccer and someone decides to join in but just kicks the ball any which way they fancy the game rapidly reaches a point where it's no fun for anybody except the newcomer.

I take exception that characterization of newcommers.

 

Care to explain why? And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain why you regard it as a characterisation rather than an example?

 

ETA: I see my newly found detractor's only post is to take exception without explaining why.

 

I think perhaps you missed the irony in your comment vs the person who posted that reply. As a Brit you ought to remember who William Webb Ellis was :P

 

 

ETA: I am NOT William Webb Ellis BTW.

Edited by MartyBartfast
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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

It is a pity neither of those two have validated contact info. They each logged a DNF. That alone puts them into the top 2 percentile of intro app users, and likely top 25 percentile of geocachers in general. These are the type of new hobbyists we need, as they seem to be playing by the rules.

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I got half way through page 2 but I felt I needed to put of newbie input in, for what it's worth.

 

I use a free app, I signed up on the site, did a small bit of reading and then went out and found my first cache.

 

Had the app or registration not been free, I would not have done this, simply because the exchange rate is not in my favour and it would not be financially viable for me at my current economical state.

 

I must say, I'm not a beginner PC/app user, but it took me a while of browsing the forums before I came across the geocaching PDF which explains it pretty well in a nutshell. I was suprised that I didn't see it on the main Geocahing site (perhaps I missed it, but then if I missed it, most likely the general n00bs will miss it too). Perhaps making QUICK reads more easily accessable will help?

 

(I have more to suggest but have to run into a meeting now)

Edited by Rat_Tails
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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

It is a pity neither of those two have validated contact info. They each logged a DNF. That alone puts them into the top 2 percentile of intro app users, and likely top 25 percentile of geocachers in general. These are the type of new hobbyists we need, as they seem to be playing by the rules.

Well there you go. That proves need for a geocache mentorship program where someone trained can point them in the right direction. Then a validated email would be required so a mentor could contact them. Geocache mentoring is not a new idea. :ph34r:

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

I have a real problem with the idea that a reviewer would disable a cache based on DNFs. Unless the CO has been inactive for a long time, it's presumptuous for the reviewer to step in like that, in my opinion...just like it's presumptuous for the cacher to say it isn't there just because they can't find it.

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

I have a real problem with the idea that a reviewer would disable a cache based on DNFs. Unless the CO has been inactive for a long time, it's presumptuous for the reviewer to step in like that, in my opinion...just like it's presumptuous for the cacher to say it isn't there just because they can't find it.

Let's focus on what we, as owners of caches, could do in this case.

 

Post an "Owner Maintenance" log to our cache stating what we observed: "The previous cachers could not find the cache, but are very new to the game. I will assume that the cache is there until I receive more notice that there may be an issue. If any of the new cachers have questions about my cache(s), how to find them, how to play the game, etc., please contact me through my profile."

 

It's a little bit of a disappointment to see the responses to some new cachers who have stopped by to defend themselves, and the App. It can seem annoying to have to go over the details of this exhaustive thread, but these new folks may not have any knowledge of forums, this forum specifically, etc. Let's cut them some slack and try to be a little more approachable.

 

For those new folks who have come by for a read, or to participate, please know that it isn't "newbies" that there is a "problem" with here. The original poster (OP) was a rant that has not seen them return to the discussion. Most everyone here shot the idea that newbies and the Apple App store official Geocaching.com Intro App are "ruining the game" down.

 

The discussion has morphed into a discussion about how to help introduce new cachers to the game in light of the new advances in technology and software, as well as the increased general awareness of the game of Geocaching. This includes:

-Mentorship (not a new idea)

-Holding more events that target and welcome an area's new cachers

-Improving the available Apps to provide more knowledge and understanding of how the game is played

-Requiring that new users (and existing users) have a validated email address (so that cachers can reach them to mentor, offer suggestions, answer questions, etc.)

 

If you're new and have questions about the game, or would like to learn more:

-Go to local events! Meet other cachers, and ask to learn from them

-Take a look around in the Geocaching 101 and the "Knowledge Books" (guidelines for the game are outlined there, as well as detailed descriptions of processes and guiding priciples of the game)

-Be open to accepting the fact that you are new to the game, and there are many folks out there who are willing and able to help you learn how to play (better).

-Be ready to receive constructive criticism.

-Understand that everyone has a bad day, and some folks aren't prepared to give you guidance or knowledge in the manner you wish. Know that there are many, many cachers out there, and there are going to be people that you find are better matches than others.

 

Lastly, there are many good and thought-provoking ideas that have come out in this thread. Please take the time to read through this thread if you want to learn more about what suggestions have been made. Also, understand that some of the suggestions won't make much sense to a new cacher because of the necessary context of in-depth knowledge of the game that you will some day have under your own belt.

 

And, toz, I was just joking with you about the "you steer it to the website" thing. Sorry that wasn't clear with the silly winking frog. It's easy to take the wrong context in this heated thread, and my attempt at levity missed its target. That is all to say, I think you and I are on the same chapter, but maybe not yet same page on this subject. That's a good thing!

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I must say, I'm not a beginner PC/app user, but it took me a while of browsing the forums before I came across the geocaching PDF which explains it pretty well in a nutshell. I was suprised that I didn't see it on the main Geocahing site (perhaps I missed it, but then if I missed it, most likely the general n00bs will miss it too).

The main page has an enormous screen image, taking most of the page.

Underlined in the middle is, "Learn more about geocaching and how you can join the adventure".

 

I don't understand how that could be missed.

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Let's focus on what we, as owners of caches, could do in this case.

 

Post an "Owner Maintenance" log to our cache stating what we observed: "The previous cachers could not find the cache, but are very new to the game. I will assume that the cache is there until I receive more notice that there may be an issue. If any of the new cachers have questions about my cache(s), how to find them, how to play the game, etc., please contact me through my profile."

 

It's a little bit of a disappointment to see the responses to some new cachers who have stopped by to defend themselves, and the App. It can seem annoying to have to go over the details of this exhaustive thread, but these new folks may not have any knowledge of forums, this forum specifically, etc. Let's cut them some slack and try to be a little more approachable.

 

For those new folks who have come by for a read, or to participate, please know that it isn't "newbies" that there is a "problem" with here. The original poster (OP) was a rant that has not seen them return to the discussion. Most everyone here shot the idea that newbies and the Apple App store official Geocaching.com Intro App are "ruining the game" down.

 

The discussion has morphed into a discussion about how to help introduce new cachers to the game in light of the new advances in technology and software, as well as the increased general awareness of the game of Geocaching. This includes:

-Mentorship (not a new idea)

-Holding more events that target and welcome an area's new cachers

-Improving the available Apps to provide more knowledge and understanding of how the game is played

-Requiring that new users (and existing users) have a validated email address (so that cachers can reach them to mentor, offer suggestions, answer questions, etc.)

 

If you're new and have questions about the game, or would like to learn more:

-Go to local events! Meet other cachers, and ask to learn from them

-Take a look around in the Geocaching 101 and the "Knowledge Books" (guidelines for the game are outlined there, as well as detailed descriptions of processes and guiding priciples of the game)

-Be open to accepting the fact that you are new to the game, and there are many folks out there who are willing and able to help you learn how to play (better).

-Be ready to receive constructive criticism.

-Understand that everyone has a bad day, and some folks aren't prepared to give you guidance or knowledge in the manner you wish. Know that there are many, many cachers out there, and there are going to be people that you find are better matches than others.

 

Lastly, there are many good and thought-provoking ideas that have come out in this thread. Please take the time to read through this thread if you want to learn more about what suggestions have been made. Also, understand that some of the suggestions won't make much sense to a new cacher because of the necessary context of in-depth knowledge of the game that you will some day have under your own belt.

 

And, toz, I was just joking with you about the "you steer it to the website" thing. Sorry that wasn't clear with the silly winking frog. It's easy to take the wrong context in this heated thread, and my attempt at levity missed its target. That is all to say, I think you and I are on the same chapter, but maybe not yet same page on this subject. That's a good thing!

 

Lovely summary

 

 

For the email validation....(of lack thereof) what about an 'in-app' sort of notification. Like-a pm from within the app?

 

This way they see it when they fire up the app?

 

I mean, my preference would be email, but if this isn't possible...

I get a notification whenever I get a new souvi, this could be the same thing.

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Real quick point of order here:

 

I just went through the steps to create a new account. As I haven't seen the interface in some years, I thought it might be good to see what happens.

 

I signed up a new user name, and used a sham email address. I was able to create the account, and then was taken to this screen:

7d35a390-c203-423a-a1cd-c2714f090643.jpg?rnd=0.06682992

 

Once at that screen, I tried to sign in with the username and was twarted by a prompt saying that I had to validate my email address. :blink: Awesome! (I didn't remember what the steps are when signing up at the website, so this was a nice refresher and provides some context to part of the discussion here)

 

But, does anyone have first-hand knowledge about the creation of an account via the smartphone apps?

 

My experience is not applicable, as I started with c:geo, then the official app on my Android phone as my first App experiences. Then, once I got an iPhone, I installed that official, full App. I already had an account, and that made the signup and pairing process for all Apps and platforms rather unremarkable for me.

 

So, can anyone confirm what happens when one signs up to play the game via the Intro App, or other full-level Apps on iPhone, Android or Windows phones?

 

And, I think this page is a good starter for folks who sign up. My two cents of design advice would be to have the next page after account creation be only the validation prompt section of that screenshot. After validation, one should be taken to a much clearer and obvious "next step" page, with prominent links like what you see in the left column. It seems a bit hidden, and knowing how to play the game and understanding how it works are going to be great ways to promote upgrading to Premium. The good-looking center column clearly has had some attention to design, and it draws my attention much more than the other columns do.

 

So, just a note about design and implied prompts for where to go next as a "new" user.

 

Please let us know what your expereinces have been (with screen shots, if you can) of signing up a new, non-exisitng account to play the game via the Apps. I'm interested to see what that looks like, and how it routes people. It seems that the signup via the website is pretty tightly controlled for confirmation of email account, but are we to believe that it is easier to bypass this with the Apps?

Edited by NeverSummer
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Did anyone ever stop and think that the validated email was left out of the intro app on purpose? We know that it is to attract new members, we as cache owners see the problems that it has caused. It may be best to just post owner maintaince on our listings, deltete unwarranted NM & NA's, make our listings PMO and not worry about contacting the intro app user. :anicute:

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Did anyone ever stop and think that the validated email was left out of the intro app on purpose? We know that it is to attract new members, we as cache owners see the problems that it has caused. It may be best to just post owner maintaince on our listings, deltete unwarranted NM & NA's, make our listings PMO and not worry about contacting the intro app user. :anicute:

I think this is what Moun10bike was talking about when he said that there was a "no" from TPTB when the idea of email validation for Apps (just intro App?) was mentioned in their meetings.

 

So, are there any validation steps when using the Apps? Or, as we might have guessed, only the Intro App has no requirement for account and email validation?

 

If either is the case, Groundspeak should have made this more clear to users that the caches and listings the user owns might be subject to unverified use. I signed up and put caches out with the understanding that geocachers were validated and could be contacted if issues came up. If they are not going to require valid accounts and/or email, there should be an "opt out" selection. If Geocaching.com is "just a listing service", then users should have more control over how Groundspeak decides to market themselves to prospective users. Willfully allowing unregistered users to access the listings without owner permission as a matter of promotion or outreach seems like an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I'm not that worried about it overall. However, it seems that there are some things left in the shade (or dark) that need to be brought to light for users. :lostsignal:

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Did anyone ever stop and think that the validated email was left out of the intro app on purpose? We know that it is to attract new members, we as cache owners see the problems that it has caused. It may be best to just post owner maintaince on our listings, deltete unwarranted NM & NA's, make our listings PMO and not worry about contacting the intro app user. :anicute:

I think this is what Moun10bike was talking about when he said that there was a "no" from TPTB when the idea of email validation for Apps (just intro App?) was mentioned in their meetings.

 

So, are there any validation steps when using the Apps? Or, as we might have guessed, only the Intro App has no requirement for account and email validation?

 

If either is the case, Groundspeak should have made this more clear to users that the caches and listings the user owns might be subject to unverified use. I signed up and put caches out with the understanding that geocachers were validated and could be contacted if issues came up. If they are not going to require valid accounts and/or email, there should be an "opt out" selection. If Geocaching.com is "just a listing service", then users should have more control over how Groundspeak decides to market themselves to prospective users.

 

Remember the geomate jr.? Kinda similar?

I know we never got an email asking if we wanted to participate in nameless, unreachable people accessing our hides.

Only way to opt out is up the D/T or make 'em pmo.

 

- Or maybe that's been the plan all along.

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Did anyone ever stop and think that the validated email was left out of the intro app on purpose? We know that it is to attract new members, we as cache owners see the problems that it has caused. It may be best to just post owner maintaince on our listings, deltete unwarranted NM & NA's, make our listings PMO and not worry about contacting the intro app user. :anicute:

I think this is what Moun10bike was talking about when he said that there was a "no" from TPTB when the idea of email validation for Apps (just intro App?) was mentioned in their meetings.

 

So, are there any validation steps when using the Apps? Or, as we might have guessed, only the Intro App has no requirement for account and email validation?

 

If either is the case, Groundspeak should have made this more clear to users that the caches and listings the user owns might be subject to unverified use. I signed up and put caches out with the understanding that geocachers were validated and could be contacted if issues came up. If they are not going to require valid accounts and/or email, there should be an "opt out" selection. If Geocaching.com is "just a listing service", then users should have more control over how Groundspeak decides to market themselves to prospective users.

 

Remember the geomate jr.? Kinda similar?

I know we never got an email asking if we wanted to participate in nameless, unreachable people accessing our hides.

Only way to opt out is up the D/T or make 'em pmo.

 

- Or maybe that's been the plan all along.

Kinda similar.

 

Upping the D/T can be misleading to actual D/T...and making them PMO will make fewer and fewer geocaches available to the public for "free".

 

I do wonder if this is a move to make more people see that they should pay the premium membership so that they can find "all of those other caches" out there. But, doesn't this go against what Jeremy has been quoted saying that geocaching.com will never be a complete "pay to play only" website? :unsure:

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Did anyone ever stop and think that the validated email was left out of the intro app on purpose? We know that it is to attract new members, we as cache owners see the problems that it has caused. It may be best to just post owner maintaince on our listings, deltete unwarranted NM & NA's, make our listings PMO and not worry about contacting the intro app user. :anicute:

I think this is what Moun10bike was talking about when he said that there was a "no" from TPTB when the idea of email validation for Apps (just intro App?) was mentioned in their meetings.

 

So, are there any validation steps when using the Apps? Or, as we might have guessed, only the Intro App has no requirement for account and email validation?

 

If either is the case, Groundspeak should have made this more clear to users that the caches and listings the user owns might be subject to unverified use. I signed up and put caches out with the understanding that geocachers were validated and could be contacted if issues came up. If they are not going to require valid accounts and/or email, there should be an "opt out" selection. If Geocaching.com is "just a listing service", then users should have more control over how Groundspeak decides to market themselves to prospective users.

 

Remember the geomate jr.? Kinda similar?

I know we never got an email asking if we wanted to participate in nameless, unreachable people accessing our hides.

Only way to opt out is up the D/T or make 'em pmo.

 

- Or maybe that's been the plan all along.

Kinda similar.

 

Upping the D/T can be misleading to actual D/T...and making them PMO will make fewer and fewer geocaches available to the public for "free".

 

I do wonder if this is a move to make more people see that they should pay the premium membership so that they can find "all of those other caches" out there. But, doesn't this go against what Jeremy has been quoted saying that geocaching.com will never be a complete "pay to play only" website? :unsure:

I see that often, but wasn't that in 2001?

Haven't things changed a bit since then?

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Did anyone ever stop and think that the validated email was left out of the intro app on purpose? We know that it is to attract new members, we as cache owners see the problems that it has caused. It may be best to just post owner maintaince on our listings, deltete unwarranted NM & NA's, make our listings PMO and not worry about contacting the intro app user. :anicute:

I think this is what Moun10bike was talking about when he said that there was a "no" from TPTB when the idea of email validation for Apps (just intro App?) was mentioned in their meetings.

 

So, are there any validation steps when using the Apps? Or, as we might have guessed, only the Intro App has no requirement for account and email validation?

 

If either is the case, Groundspeak should have made this more clear to users that the caches and listings the user owns might be subject to unverified use. I signed up and put caches out with the understanding that geocachers were validated and could be contacted if issues came up. If they are not going to require valid accounts and/or email, there should be an "opt out" selection. If Geocaching.com is "just a listing service", then users should have more control over how Groundspeak decides to market themselves to prospective users.

 

Remember the geomate jr.? Kinda similar?

I know we never got an email asking if we wanted to participate in nameless, unreachable people accessing our hides.

Only way to opt out is up the D/T or make 'em pmo.

 

- Or maybe that's been the plan all along.

Kinda similar.

 

Upping the D/T can be misleading to actual D/T...and making them PMO will make fewer and fewer geocaches available to the public for "free".

 

I do wonder if this is a move to make more people see that they should pay the premium membership so that they can find "all of those other caches" out there. But, doesn't this go against what Jeremy has been quoted saying that geocaching.com will never be a complete "pay to play only" website? :unsure:

I see that often, but wasn't that in 2001?

Haven't things changed a bit since then?

Something like that. It was early on in the site's life.

 

Yes, they have. But one thing that hasn't changed is that quote. There hasn't been anything discussed to the contrary, and we've got an example here that the contrary may be the direction this site is going. But, that quote is still paraded out, and Jeremy hasn't said anything to the contrary in public.

 

So, this is where I wonder what the plan is. Either we have a hand-in-the-cookie-jar story here, or we've simply uncovered a repairable inconsistency.

Edited by NeverSummer
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I picked up a container after I archived a listing that a group of catchers with 7 finds that lasted for 8 days. That makes two listings that I have checked and removed. I'm not playing this game if I have to pay to have an account to hide headaches here.

I'm not sure I understand what you just said, but I think I get the gist of it.

 

You don't want to have to pay to play. I think there are many people in your same camp on that one.

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Remember the geomate jr.? Kinda similar?

I know we never got an email asking if we wanted to participate in nameless, unreachable people accessing our hides.

Only way to opt out is up the D/T or make 'em pmo.

 

- Or maybe that's been the plan all along.

 

I never owned or used a geomate jr. but wasn't that a GPS with preloaded caches? Didn't you still have to access the webpage to get the latest caches? That's one of the issues identified with the intro app. It either doesn't at all or doesn't adequately let intro app users know that there is an entire geocaching community. Geocaching isn't an entirely solitary activity. People hide, care for, and care about the caches they place. These caches are not hidden by some faceless corporation who doesn't care if they are found or not.

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1. The logic driving towards becoming a "pay to play" site assumes that Groundspeak would create a free intro app with no email validation on the assumption that this would cause a high percentage of cache owners to make their caches PMO. I think that's a stretch.

 

2. I think that top management at Groundspeak felt strongly about making the intro app hassle-free in the hope that it would convert the maximum number of users to the paid version of the app and/or premium membership. That is a simple, one-step analysis.

 

3. Lackeys are on record as having concerns about the ability to use the intro app with no validation. While these concerns were overruled initially, the argument continues to be pressed. Constructive posts in this thread about the practical problems caused by an app with no required email validation help that cause.

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

It is a pity neither of those two have validated contact info. They each logged a DNF. That alone puts them into the top 2 percentile of intro app users, and likely top 25 percentile of geocachers in general. These are the type of new hobbyists we need, as they seem to be playing by the rules.

Well there you go. That proves need for a geocache mentorship program where someone trained can point them in the right direction. Then a validated email would be required so a mentor could contact them. Geocache mentoring is not a new idea. :ph34r:

 

WOW!

Volunteer local mentors...just like volunteer local reviewers?

What a bizarre concept.

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

It is a pity neither of those two have validated contact info. They each logged a DNF. That alone puts them into the top 2 percentile of intro app users, and likely top 25 percentile of geocachers in general. These are the type of new hobbyists we need, as they seem to be playing by the rules.

Well there you go. That proves need for a geocache mentorship program where someone trained can point them in the right direction. Then a validated email would be required so a mentor could contact them. Geocache mentoring is not a new idea. :ph34r:

 

WOW!

Volunteer local mentors...just like volunteer local reviewers?

What a bizarre concept.

I don't find it bizarre at all. Been there and done it before with local events here and the idea of being a cache mentor was presented to me by the community coordinator of another geocache listing service. I was mentored by a geocacher with over 700 hides and 10K finds. We all start somewhere. I never wanted to make my listings PMO, and I never intended the mass archival that I have did recently either. I have good working relations with land managers and I know how to fill out permits and keep them on file, work with my local reviewer and post on my cache pages that I have said permits on file, then chance some noob come in and trash the area like I have witnessed with some of my geocaches.... NO, just ain't gonna happen. Let someone else be responseable for the actions of others. :mad:

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1. The logic driving towards becoming a "pay to play" site assumes that Groundspeak would create a free intro app with no email validation on the assumption that this would cause a high percentage of cache owners to make their caches PMO. I think that's a stretch.

While most users aren't going make their caches PMO, or opt out of being visible on the intro app, there are already enough impediments in both the intro app and the full priced app for basic members to feel pressured into getting a premium membership. So it is certainly reasonable to assume that Groundspeak intends to push more people toward paying to geocache.

 

2. I think that top management at Groundspeak felt strongly about making the intro app hassle-free in the hope that it would convert the maximum number of users to the paid version of the app and/or premium membership. That is a simple, one-step analysis.

Agreed.

 

There seems to be quite of few current memebers who also feel the Intro App should train geocachers and not just let them sample geocaching. While that is certainly possible with the Intro App, my guess is that if using it seems more like getting a lesson on geocaching and less like trying it out, it will turn off a significant number of these new users.

 

3. Lackeys are on record as having concerns about the ability to use the intro app with no validation. While these concerns were overruled initially, the argument continues to be pressed. Constructive posts in this thread about the practical problems caused by an app with no required email validation help that cause.

Maybe. It seems most people want to take Jayme's advice back in post #16 and find ways to be helpful to newbies. It seems the biggest concern right now is there is no way to contact someone who has not validated their email account. It seems to me that there could be other ways to contact a newbie using the Intro App that doesn't require email and perhaps even give the newbie tools to prevent being harassed by some owner is angry over a DNF or a missing TB. Something along the lines of a PM in the forums. The app could display a list of messages from other cachers. The app user could click on these to read the message in the app. If they feel the message is harassing, they could block further message from that user or even block all messages. Perhaps even extend this kind of private messaging to users of the website, so the app user could reply.
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Maybe. It seems most people want to take Jayme's advice back in post #16 and find ways to be helpful to newbies. It seems the biggest concern right now is there is no way to contact someone who has not validated their email account. It seems to me that there could be other ways to contact a newbie using the Intro App that doesn't require email and perhaps even give the newbie tools to prevent being harassed by some owner is angry over a DNF or a missing TB. Something along the lines of a PM in the forums. The app could display a list of messages from other cachers. The app user could click on these to read the message in the app. If they feel the message is harassing, they could block further message from that user or even block all messages. Perhaps even extend this kind of private messaging to users of the website, so the app user could reply.

Exactly. Non-email messaging was mentioned a number of time throughout the thread as an alternative option, though I believe that falls in line with 'not becoming a social networking site' - even though a profile-based simple messaging feature is far social networking :P

That feature shouldn't be specific to the intro app, but it would allow the intro app to at least open that form of communication, whether an email has been validated or not; and the feature would exist for 'newbies' who have never even touched the intro app. Profile messaging would be tool-agnostic. It just comes with the gc.com account. It would make quick and emergency communication that much better (providing email notifications of new messages, for instance). Retaining an inbox of messages isn't that big of a deal programmatically. And if space is a concern, the inbox messages can expire after a time, unless a message is explicitly saved or moved to another box. (sort of like the auto-archival of caches being saved by a quick edit, natch).

 

IMO the two least impactful, best and easiest possible resolutions to the email issue:

1) Require email validation, or 2) Provide an account-based messaging feature.

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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.

I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer. :anibad:

Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers. :ph34r:

 

It is a pity neither of those two have validated contact info. They each logged a DNF. That alone puts them into the top 2 percentile of intro app users, and likely top 25 percentile of geocachers in general. These are the type of new hobbyists we need, as they seem to be playing by the rules.

Well there you go. That proves need for a geocache mentorship program where someone trained can point them in the right direction. Then a validated email would be required so a mentor could contact them. Geocache mentoring is not a new idea. :ph34r:

 

WOW!

Volunteer local mentors...just like volunteer local reviewers?

What a bizarre concept.

 

Who's going to determine who makes a good mentor? I know people who are quite active in the GC community and mentor, but plant poor quality caches, plant PTs, and all of which barely get maintained (usually by the GC community or archived by the CO when the NMs and NAs come in). The philosophy - geocaching is about getting outside for a hike, the cache is low on the totem pole of importance.

 

At least Reviewers are hand selected by Groundspeak, and from what I see it's because they understand the game, the guidelines and deal with people professionally. How would a mentorship program work? I doubt Groundspeak would officially endorse it. Might get them into trouble if people are paired up with strangers who are not vetted.

 

Personally, I think events are the best way to provide mentorship. At events the new cacher gets a broader perspective on geocaching.

 

Maybe the intro app can include a list of nearby events.

Edited by L0ne.R
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Who's going to determine who makes a good mentor? I know people who are quite active in the GC community and mentor, but plant poor quality caches, plant PTs, and all of which barely get maintained (usually by the GC community or archived by the CO when the NMs and NAs come in). The philosophy - geocaching is about getting outside for a hike, the cache is low on the totem pole of importance.

 

At least Reviewers are hand selected by Groundspeak, and from what I see it's because they understand the game, the guidelines and deal with people professionally. How would a mentorship program work? I doubt Groundspeak would officially endorse it. Might get them into trouble if people are paired up with strangers who are not vetted.

 

Personally, I think events are the best way to provide mentorship. At events the new cacher gets a broader perspective on geocaching.

Agreed - and then some...

A very popular long-time cacher with awesome locations, but cookie tin caches wrapped in black garbage bags was our first experience.

Often giving seminars sponsored by natural areas, we attended one.

Everything this person said was so outdated we kept offering corrections (no, Virtuals cannot be placed now, yes we have power trails, you can cache with cell phones now....).

- It was the first time I've ever been asked to leave for being disruptive.

Four more cachers we didn't see in the room, got up and left with us.

So all those people still paying attention to this "mentor/educator" were being fed information, some that wasn't true before they last cached in '04.

 

I like the event idea. A few times we had a new person cache with us afterwards. Surprising, most are still caching. :lol:

Gives a new person a well-rounded group of options, with maybe the same type of experiences in mind (hikers with hikers, numbers with numbers, age groups...)

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Who's going to determine who makes a good mentor? I know people who are quite active in the GC community and mentor, but plant poor quality caches, plant PTs, and all of which barely get maintained (usually by the GC community or archived by the CO when the NMs and NAs come in). The philosophy - geocaching is about getting outside for a hike, the cache is low on the totem pole of importance.

 

At least Reviewers are hand selected by Groundspeak, and from what I see it's because they understand the game, the guidelines and deal with people professionally. How would a mentorship program work? I doubt Groundspeak would officially endorse it. Might get them into trouble if people are paired up with strangers who are not vetted.

 

Personally, I think events are the best way to provide mentorship. At events the new cacher gets a broader perspective on geocaching.

 

Maybe the intro app can include a list of nearby events.

 

Selecting mentors looks like a legal minefield, especially where children or anyone deemed "vulnerable" was concerned. It's hard to imagine a disclaimer tight enough to protect Groundspeak from lawsuits if a mentor were to take advantage of a minor who wanted to get to grips with geocaching and Groundspeak had had anything even remotely to do with putting the two together. And, let's be brutal here, anyone inclined to abuse a child would love another possible way to get close to children.

 

Letting people be entirely self-selecting, and requiring people to take their own precautions when selecting and meeting a mentor, could work. But even then the mentors would need to watch their own backs - I wouldn't want to be the guy who agrees to meet a novice geocacher, only to find myself in the woods with a woman I never met before who figures she's got a chance to get some money by making a false accusation against me.

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I like the event idea. A few times we had a new person cache with us afterwards. Surprising, most are still caching. :lol:

Gives a new person a well-rounded group of options, with maybe the same type of experiences in mind (hikers with hikers, numbers with numbers, age groups...)

 

Events seem like an obvious chance to teach people the basics, and being a group also overcome a lot of the potential issues of arranging personal meetings with strangers. An event held near a variety of caches would be great, as it would give people the chance to see a variety of hides, container sizes, hiding approaches and so on. People could then see for themselves the difference in enjoyment between a lunch box in the woods, and a film pot behind a sign.

 

I think the event guidelines would need to change, as I understand things there can be no requirement to go out and geocache, and a group of people meeting to go out caching doesn't count as an event. Maybe a new cache type would do the trick, or maybe the guidelines for an event cache could change.

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Events are the best way to get newcomers introduced and have a sense of the community and how geocaching works in their area.

The problem is, they're not a "geocache". Unless specifically looking for them or coming across one by chance nearby or by browsing a map, newcomers won't even know they exist, let alone feel confident to meet new people in this simple 'treasure-hunting' game.

 

I'm not too keen on an official 'mentor' program condoned by Groundspeak. I don't see that working at all, for many reasons.

 

But I do think bringing focus to local events within the Intro app, above and beyond the limited geocache search, is an absolutely wonderful idea, and would fully support the move to implement some way of doing that.

 

Get new players out to events! Who cares if they have a full account or not; heck it wouldn't even matter if they have a validated email or not :ph34r:

Edited by thebruce0
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Who's going to determine who makes a good mentor? I know people who are quite active in the GC community and mentor, but plant poor quality caches, plant PTs, and all of which barely get maintained (usually by the GC community or archived by the CO when the NMs and NAs come in). The philosophy - geocaching is about getting outside for a hike, the cache is low on the totem pole of importance.

 

At least Reviewers are hand selected by Groundspeak, and from what I see it's because they understand the game, the guidelines and deal with people professionally. How would a mentorship program work? I doubt Groundspeak would officially endorse it. Might get them into trouble if people are paired up with strangers who are not vetted.

 

Personally, I think events are the best way to provide mentorship. At events the new cacher gets a broader perspective on geocaching.

 

Maybe the intro app can include a list of nearby events.

 

Selecting mentors looks like a legal minefield, especially where children or anyone deemed "vulnerable" was concerned. It's hard to imagine a disclaimer tight enough to protect Groundspeak from lawsuits if a mentor were to take advantage of a minor who wanted to get to grips with geocaching and Groundspeak had had anything even remotely to do with putting the two together. And, let's be brutal here, anyone inclined to abuse a child would love another possible way to get close to children.

 

Letting people be entirely self-selecting, and requiring people to take their own precautions when selecting and meeting a mentor, could work. But even then the mentors would need to watch their own backs - I wouldn't want to be the guy who agrees to meet a novice geocacher, only to find myself in the woods with a woman I never met before who figures she's got a chance to get some money by making a false accusation against me.

:rolleyes:

 

I don't think the suggestion for mentors is intended to be a physical presence assigned to new cachers.

 

Mentors develop out of many situations, and most of what people seem to be suggesting isn't predatory like you keep reminding us to be wary of. <_<

 

I think the idea that we should all be inpired to mentor new cachers if the opportunity arises is the goal. Be willing to help, and be ready to be asked questions and for advice by new geocachers. Sometimes this comes naturally out of meeting new people at events, sometimes it happens when you start an email back-and-forth with someone about one of your caches they are struggling with, sometimes it happens when we simply reach out when we notice that someone is struggling.

 

It doesn't have to be a physical presnence, either. Mentorship can happen over emails or phone calls. I think most of what is being suggested is geared more toward an informal awareness of the need to help new cachers learn the ropes; a fostering of a helpful community. I don't think that, for reasons you have outlined and others, that "mentorship" will become a Groundspeak-required part of this game. I'm guessing that most people are just saying that mentorship is something that works for people new to a situation, and we should all be ready to reach out and help so that the game can continue within the guidelines and general community common practices.

 

It sounds to me like you know your limitiations and comfort level for mentoring a new cacher. If your instincts guide you to not be available for certain people, so be it. I would guess that the rest of us agree and don't need reminders about mentoring strange women in the woods, or young vulnerable kids in our cars. <_<:blink:

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Events are the best way to get newcomers introduced and have a sense of the community and how geocaching works in their area.

The problem is, they're not a "geocache". Unless specifically looking for them or coming across one by chance nearby or by browsing a map, newcomers won't even know they exist, let alone feel confident to meet new people in this simple 'treasure-hunting' game.

 

I'm not too keen on an official 'mentor' program condoned by Groundspeak. I don't see that working at all, for many reasons.

 

But I do think bringing focus to local events within the Intro app, above and beyond the limited geocache search, is an absolutely wonderful idea, and would fully support the move to implement some way of doing that.

 

Get new players out to events! Who cares if they have a full account or not; heck it wouldn't even matter if they have a validated email or not :ph34r:

 

I agree completely about events. And I don't think that an "official" mentoring program would ever fly.

 

As far as the Intro App is concerned, I still think that, rather than having it allow more finds after your first 3 or whatever, that the Intro App, because it is free, should just allow 3-5 caches period. Then, once the new user has found out about the game, they are directed to the website to sign up for an official account, and told about the options for play: Full App or a GPS, and both requiring a verified account.

 

This would address the "keeping it free" part (buying a $10 app will be bemoaned as "not free to play", but the alternative is getting a used or new GPS for $50-$600), and would address the ability for unverified users to keep finding more caches. People wouldn't have to feel like they needed to up the D/T or make PMO caches to get away from the misguided use by the few "bad eggs" that might come to the game through the Intro App.

 

This would also make the Intro App the "gateway" Groundspeak is likely hoping for. If someone isn't interested in the game after 3 finds enough to consider a GPS or starting an account, I don't really know that they will be a user who will stick with the game for long anyway.

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I disagree about events. I find them highly exclusionary, awkward, and full of the same people every time. My first event was so intimidating and uncomfortable, that I generally avoid them now. Hate, hate, hate them.

 

As far as the fixed limitation on caches...would this include DNFs? Can you imagine 3 DNFs and you're out?

If they didn't include DNFs would people wise up, log it as a DNF, and keep caching. Then later change it to finds?

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Who's going to determine who makes a good mentor? I know people who are quite active in the GC community and mentor, but plant poor quality caches, plant PTs, and all of which barely get maintained (usually by the GC community or archived by the CO when the NMs and NAs come in). The philosophy - geocaching is about getting outside for a hike, the cache is low on the totem pole of importance.

 

At least Reviewers are hand selected by Groundspeak, and from what I see it's because they understand the game, the guidelines and deal with people professionally. How would a mentorship program work? I doubt Groundspeak would officially endorse it. Might get them into trouble if people are paired up with strangers who are not vetted.

 

Personally, I think events are the best way to provide mentorship. At events the new cacher gets a broader perspective on geocaching.

 

Maybe the intro app can include a list of nearby events.

 

Selecting mentors looks like a legal minefield, especially where children or anyone deemed "vulnerable" was concerned. It's hard to imagine a disclaimer tight enough to protect Groundspeak from lawsuits if a mentor were to take advantage of a minor who wanted to get to grips with geocaching and Groundspeak had had anything even remotely to do with putting the two together. And, let's be brutal here, anyone inclined to abuse a child would love another possible way to get close to children.

 

Letting people be entirely self-selecting, and requiring people to take their own precautions when selecting and meeting a mentor, could work. But even then the mentors would need to watch their own backs - I wouldn't want to be the guy who agrees to meet a novice geocacher, only to find myself in the woods with a woman I never met before who figures she's got a chance to get some money by making a false accusation against me.

:rolleyes:

 

I don't think the suggestion for mentors is intended to be a physical presence assigned to new cachers.

 

Mentors develop out of many situations, and most of what people seem to be suggesting isn't predatory like you keep reminding us to be wary of. <_<

 

I think the idea that we should all be inpired to mentor new cachers if the opportunity arises is the goal. Be willing to help, and be ready to be asked questions and for advice by new geocachers. Sometimes this comes naturally out of meeting new people at events, sometimes it happens when you start an email back-and-forth with someone about one of your caches they are struggling with, sometimes it happens when we simply reach out when we notice that someone is struggling.

 

It doesn't have to be a physical presnence, either. Mentorship can happen over emails or phone calls. I think most of what is being suggested is geared more toward an informal awareness of the need to help new cachers learn the ropes; a fostering of a helpful community. I don't think that, for reasons you have outlined and others, that "mentorship" will become a Groundspeak-required part of this game. I'm guessing that most people are just saying that mentorship is something that works for people new to a situation, and we should all be ready to reach out and help so that the game can continue within the guidelines and general community common practices.

 

It sounds to me like you know your limitiations and comfort level for mentoring a new cacher. If your instincts guide you to not be available for certain people, so be it. I would guess that the rest of us agree and don't need reminders about mentoring strange women in the woods, or young vulnerable kids in our cars. <_<:blink:

Exactly. Mentorship can happen over emails or phone calls. I don't need reminders about mentoring strange women in the woods, or young vulnerable kids in our cars either. :blink:

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I disagree about events. I find them highly exclusionary, awkward, and full of the same people every time. My first event was so intimidating and uncomfortable, that I generally avoid them now. Hate, hate, hate them.

To say that ALL events are like that, let alone ALL people who attend or ALL newcomers who may attend - highly biased. Events around here are very much different. It all depends on what the event is all about, whether it's limited attendance, whether it's even intended to be for beginners, etc.

 

I see zero issue with encouraging newcomers by highlighting a list of upcoming local events they can decide whether to attend, which they may never even have known about otherwise.

 

Also, if you had a bad experience with events because of the people that went, then go, and be the kind of person that is welcoming to beginners ;) be the change! :P

Edited by thebruce0
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Ok well, that was my based on being a newbie twice. In the beginning in S Az, and then once I moved here.

 

Just sayin. It's hard to be a newbie. And if there were expectations for me to attend more events ...I think I'd die.

 

Maybe a kind soul can hold a 'Mentoring Newbies event' twice a year or something like that...where the focus is on the new cachers.

 

But, like mentioned above, events are very hard to find! I think there's a link or something, or somewhere, but if I still can't figure it out (other than looking around on the map) imagine how hard it is for new cachers?

 

And if they don't have a validated email, Then no newsletter will reach them

 

 

Eta: spelling and punctuation, of course

Edited by JesandTodd
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I disagree about events. I find them highly exclusionary, awkward, and full of the same people every time. My first event was so intimidating and uncomfortable, that I generally avoid them now. Hate, hate, hate them.

Sounds like you have the perfect opportunity to buck the trend. Have your own events, and make them less awkward; you'll be in control. Be welcoming, be warm, and reach out to new people.

 

As far as the fixed limitation on caches...would this include DNFs? Can you imagine 3 DNFs and you're out?

If they didn't include DNFs would people wise up, log it as a DNF, and keep caching. Then later change it to finds?

Sounds like we have a bug to consider. So, if they don't find it, they should be provided with a link to the cache owner's account and reminded that they can reach out to the owner to ask for help.

 

5 caches to find, 5 "found its", and expires in 30 days?

 

You tell us: how would we make it work, or what is an alternative idea?

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And, let's be honest. If someone goes to the app store, wants a plug-and-play free location-based game to play, there is a QR-based option for them.

 

Geocaching is older and refined, and is a completely different beast than just going to a spot and saying that you've been there. That's Waymarking. That's the QR-competitor. That isn't geocaching. There is nuance and strategy.

 

We're talking about a game and related apps where the goal is to find a container at a location, sign a logbook, possibly trade some items, move a trackable, and log it online. This isn't a smash-and-dash game, and the apps shouldn't allow it to become that.

 

There are guidelines, rules, and complications that set it apart from the rest. Groundspeak should embrace this, and not try to make people join the game that it isn't.

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