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INTRO APP users are killing the hobby


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Getting an email account is free. Using that email account to create a geocaching account is free. Validation for that email account is also free.

 

I think that's your point, but I'm just driving it home...

Pretty close. My point is that these things need to be REQUIRED in order to establish an account, log on and use the app. YOUR point, that it will STILL be FREE, is also a good point to appease thos who whine, "but..but..but..geocaching is supposed to be FREE." "Free" means "no money changes hands directly for the service," not "you can be anonymous."

 

Just reported yet another log containing "foul language" from one of these new cachers with single digit finds and no email address. They really are ruining this for long time cachers. I hear complaints everytime I talk to another cacher. It;s is quite terrible that this is happening.

 

**E-Mail Address:The "send message" feature is disabled because this email address has not been validated by the user.**

 

I am not looking to fight with them, if i have issues I email a reviewer ..but in general i sometimes email to keep them from posting spoilers and.or posting a log that is more than a TFTC ..

 

If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant) We have had caches ARCHIVED almost INSTANTLY by a reviewer based on a single complaint that its missing by a newbie and that cacher was SO angry they remover an entire historical trail series !

 

I am more than happy to answer/assist any cacher if they ask politely.

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If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant) We have had caches ARCHIVED almost INSTANTLY by a reviewer based on a single complaint that its missing by a newbie and that cacher was SO angry they remover an entire historical trail series !

 

If true, the reviewer in question sounds fairly trigger-happy. That's not the appropriate response, so I wonder if there's more to it than just a newbie DNFing it.

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If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant)

 

The INTRO APP only shows Traditional caches...

So if a newbie is looking for, and cant find a Puzzle cache, they must be using Groundspeaks paid for app... (Or another :app. :unsure: )

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If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant) We have had caches ARCHIVED almost INSTANTLY by a reviewer based on a single complaint that its missing by a newbie and that cacher was SO angry they remover an entire historical trail series !

 

If true, the reviewer in question sounds fairly trigger-happy. That's not the appropriate response, so I wonder if there's more to it than just a newbie DNFing it.

 

I haven't seen that. GC#s please.

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If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant)

 

The INTRO APP only shows Traditional caches...

So if a newbie is looking for, and cant find a Puzzle cache, they must be using Groundspeaks paid for app... (Or another :app. :unsure: )

+1

Noticed quite a few that are about new app users in general.

Thread's become the catch-all for app issues.

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If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant) We have had caches ARCHIVED almost INSTANTLY by a reviewer based on a single complaint that its missing by a newbie and that cacher was SO angry they remover an entire historical trail series !

 

If true, the reviewer in question sounds fairly trigger-happy. That's not the appropriate response, so I wonder if there's more to it than just a newbie DNFing it.

 

I haven't seen that. GC#s please.

 

All of the archived caches in this person's profile were archived by the owner because they couldn't keep up maintenance on them.

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I've read through this forum post, and would like to post from the other side of the spectrum...the intro player. I started playing two months ago, and searched around for a group event to receive more information and guidance. My sibling (also new with around 150 finds)and I ended up traveling to Charlotte, NC (near her home)to attend a group event on August 31. The seasoned cach players at this event made things more difficult, as they seemed more interested in peddling other websites, and trying to force other to play side games rather than explain proper edicit for new geocaching. Now before everyone under the sun jumps on me saying that is not the norm, I will say I am confirmed for one of the 1 million geocach. meet and greet events in Southern Georgia scheduled this Saturday. I'm giving it a second go, of trying to learn more about this hobby and how to better respect it, but from someone just coming in, I would like to give the following comments.

 

1. New players (less than six months) should not be used to peddle other websites similar to geocaching. The whole process of geocaching is overwhelming to new players, please don't add confusion.

2. When hosting events as seasoned veterans, please do not pair a group of adults with a group with children. Those single adults are either having a day out away from their kids, or may not be kid friendly.

3. Encourage new player, but don't ruin it for them! We told the organizer that we were going to head up the street to attempt "octopus garden" (one of the oldest geocaches around our area), and the guy pretty much gave away the location before we even left the parking lot.

4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

5. Own your caches! I've got a whoppping total of 52 completed, I've attempted at least a dozen that were gone. Over half the ones I found were in such poor shape, it's clear they have not received much love lately. ...and yes I bring spare logs to replace if needed.

6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

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I've read through this forum post, and would like to post from the other side of the spectrum...the intro player. I started playing two months ago, and searched around for a group event to receive more information and guidance. My sibling (also new with around 150 finds)and I ended up traveling to Charlotte, NC (near her home)to attend a group event on August 31. The seasoned cach players at this event made things more difficult, as they seemed more interested in peddling other websites, and trying to force other to play side games rather than explain proper edicit for new geocaching. Now before everyone under the sun jumps on me saying that is not the norm, I will say I am confirmed for one of the 1 million geocach. meet and greet events in Southern Georgia scheduled this Saturday. I'm giving it a second go, of trying to learn more about this hobby and how to better respect it, but from someone just coming in, I would like to give the following comments.

 

1. New players (less than six months) should not be used to peddle other websites similar to geocaching. The whole process of geocaching is overwhelming to new players, please don't add confusion.

2. When hosting events as seasoned veterans, please do not pair a group of adults with a group with children. Those single adults are either having a day out away from their kids, or may not be kid friendly.

3. Encourage new player, but don't ruin it for them! We told the organizer that we were going to head up the street to attempt "octopus garden" (one of the oldest geocaches around our area), and the guy pretty much gave away the location before we even left the parking lot.

4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

5. Own your caches! I've got a whoppping total of 52 completed, I've attempted at least a dozen that were gone. Over half the ones I found were in such poor shape, it's clear they have not received much love lately. ...and yes I bring spare logs to replace if needed.

6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

 

Rare to see one of these specimens in action.

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I've read through this forum post, and would like to post from the other side of the spectrum...the intro player. I started playing two months ago, and searched around for a group event to receive more information and guidance. My sibling (also new with around 150 finds)and I ended up traveling to Charlotte, NC (near her home)to attend a group event on August 31. The seasoned cach players at this event made things more difficult, as they seemed more interested in peddling other websites, and trying to force other to play side games rather than explain proper edicit for new geocaching. Now before everyone under the sun jumps on me saying that is not the norm, I will say I am confirmed for one of the 1 million geocach. meet and greet events in Southern Georgia scheduled this Saturday. I'm giving it a second go, of trying to learn more about this hobby and how to better respect it, but from someone just coming in, I would like to give the following comments.

 

1. New players (less than six months) should not be used to peddle other websites similar to geocaching. The whole process of geocaching is overwhelming to new players, please don't add confusion.

2. When hosting events as seasoned veterans, please do not pair a group of adults with a group with children. Those single adults are either having a day out away from their kids, or may not be kid friendly.

3. Encourage new player, but don't ruin it for them! We told the organizer that we were going to head up the street to attempt "octopus garden" (one of the oldest geocaches around our area), and the guy pretty much gave away the location before we even left the parking lot.

4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

5. Own your caches! I've got a whoppping total of 52 completed, I've attempted at least a dozen that were gone. Over half the ones I found were in such poor shape, it's clear they have not received much love lately. ...and yes I bring spare logs to replace if needed.

6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

Hey, it's great to see a newcomer wanting to learn more about Geocaching and the etiquette the game entails.

 

The specific guidelines are quite lengthy, so I won't post them here. However, here is a direct link to all you'll need to know about it: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

Some Geocachers are super stingy about it and will go as far as to request your cache archived if you put even a nail into a tree. So read them thoroughly.

 

I don't really have any abnormal tools which I use to Geocache but I do have some typical items to take along. I always have tweezers, a multitool, small flashlight, and spare logs with me. You can carry whatever it is that you feel is necessary for your caching experience, but I do recommend tweezers and a multitool.

 

As for your inquiry about events, I don't have any hard references. I have heard Geo Woodstock is a great one, but that's about it. I've only been to two local events since I started caching.

 

I hope you can find some good answers from other cachers. Happy caching.

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I've read through this forum post, and would like to post from the other side of the spectrum...the intro player. I started playing two months ago, and searched around for a group event to receive more information and guidance. My sibling (also new with around 150 finds)and I ended up traveling to Charlotte, NC (near her home)to attend a group event on August 31. The seasoned cach players at this event made things more difficult, as they seemed more interested in peddling other websites, and trying to force other to play side games rather than explain proper edicit for new geocaching. Now before everyone under the sun jumps on me saying that is not the norm, I will say I am confirmed for one of the 1 million geocach. meet and greet events in Southern Georgia scheduled this Saturday. I'm giving it a second go, of trying to learn more about this hobby and how to better respect it, but from someone just coming in, I would like to give the following comments.

 

1. New players (less than six months) should not be used to peddle other websites similar to geocaching. The whole process of geocaching is overwhelming to new players, please don't add confusion.

2. When hosting events as seasoned veterans, please do not pair a group of adults with a group with children. Those single adults are either having a day out away from their kids, or may not be kid friendly.

3. Encourage new player, but don't ruin it for them! We told the organizer that we were going to head up the street to attempt "octopus garden" (one of the oldest geocaches around our area), and the guy pretty much gave away the location before we even left the parking lot.

4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

5. Own your caches! I've got a whoppping total of 52 completed, I've attempted at least a dozen that were gone. Over half the ones I found were in such poor shape, it's clear they have not received much love lately. ...and yes I bring spare logs to replace if needed.

6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

Hey, it's great to see a newcomer wanting to learn more about Geocaching and the etiquette the game entails.

 

The specific guidelines are quite lengthy, so I won't post them here. However, here is a direct link to all you'll need to know about it: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

Some Geocachers are super stingy about it and will go as far as to request your cache archived if you put even a nail into a tree. So read them thoroughly.

 

I don't really have any abnormal tools which I use to Geocache but I do have some typical items to take along. I always have tweezers, a multitool, small flashlight, and spare logs with me. You can carry whatever it is that you feel is necessary for your caching experience, but I do recommend tweezers and a multitool.

 

As for your inquiry about events, I don't have any hard references. I have heard Geo Woodstock is a great one, but that's about it. I've only been to two local events since I started caching.

 

I hope you can find some good answers from other cachers. Happy caching.

 

Thanks for the reply. It was a tough pill to swallow to drive 30 minutes from home to find a cach, only to discover its hiding spot is 20 feet up in a tree. No mention on the description/hint about needing special tools to access. So It's made me curious of what some people carry in their kits.

 

The link will be useful, and thank you for the easy hyperlink.

 

Lastly, with all the horror stories of caches coming up missing I have elected to purchase a set of four realitor lock boxs that nothing short of a hacksaw is going to remove. I figure they will give me a good starter set to built some puzzle caches with.

 

Happy hunting

 

Springs 21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

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So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

- Hiding a Geocache

- Abnormal? Guess that depends on what hides you enjoy doing.

Basics may include static rope, ascenders/descenders and anchor straps.

I haven't used tweezers for a cache in years. :)

- Geowoodstock and Geocoinfest (if you ever get into trackables).

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1. New players (less than six months) should not be used to peddle other websites similar to geocaching. The whole process of geocaching is overwhelming to new players, please don't add confusion.

 

Personally, I don't think events should be used to peddle other websites, especially one that is commercial in nature. On the other hand, creating a list of "good sites for puzzle solving" or places to get geocaching gear and placing it on a table wouldn't be intrusive. If some is attending an event for the purpose of soliciting business for their web site, I'd make it a point to never visit their web site.

 

2. When hosting events as seasoned veterans, please do not pair a group of adults with a group with children. Those single adults are either having a day out away from their kids, or may not be kid friendly.

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. If the organizers of the event are "pairing" groups of caches for the purpose of going geocaching they're missing the point of events. Geocaching events are supposed to be about geocaching, not for geocaching.

 

3. Encourage new player, but don't ruin it for them! We told the organizer that we were going to head up the street to attempt "octopus garden" (one of the oldest geocaches around our area), and the guy pretty much gave away the location before we even left the parking lot.

 

It's hard to avoid this one. If you're first meeting another geocacher they have no idea how much help you might want. I used to have a cache in the park across the road from my house. I'd occasionally see someone searching for it. I saw someone poking around the area as I was coming home and stopped and gave my standard greeting to someone that appears to be looking for a cache (Found it yet?). He said, "leave me alone. I want to find it myself". Okay....not exactly friendly, but I game him his space.

4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

But those are the *real* geocachers. Would you really trust geocaching advice from someone that was doused in Ushers new cologne? You might might to avoid any events attended by Clan Riffster. I hear he has a smelly hat. Joking aside, it sounds like the event you attended was too focused on finding nearby caches. The original purpose of geocaching events was to provide a venue and time for geocachers to socialize, perhaps get advice, but not specifically for the purpose of finding caches. Unfortunately, that's becoming less and less the case.

 

 

6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

Perhaps not, but dealing with reviewers is part of the game. It's hard to say whether or not the local reviewer was being overly strict but I wouldn't be surprised if the reviewer was just "doing their job". I think that if you asked most reviewer what their "job" was they'd say it was to help geocachers get caches published. One thing that you'll learn about being a cache hider is to work with your reviewer, and don't just blame them if an attempt to have a cache published doesn't work the first time.

 

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

 

Someone else posted the link to the Cache Listing Requirement and Guidelines. Before submitting a cache, read them. Then read them again, Then try to understand the reasoning behind each guideline. The forums have had quite a few threads related to "tools of the trade (TOTT)". The "best national events to attend" is debatable, but it's hard to go wrong with Geowoodstock events.

 

 

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6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

Perhaps not, but dealing with reviewers is part of the game. It's hard to say whether or not the local reviewer was being overly strict but I wouldn't be surprised if the reviewer was just "doing their job". I think that if you asked most reviewer what their "job" was they'd say it was to help geocachers get caches published. One thing that you'll learn about being a cache hider is to work with your reviewer, and don't just blame them if an attempt to have a cache published doesn't work the first time.

 

I'm in Atlanta and don't know if yours is the same reviewer, but if so, he's very fair, but gets **** from a lot of folks because he'll occasionally do broad sweeps, disable a ton of caches and threaten archival if maintenance is not kept up...even on some of the older caches people seem sentimentally attached to. Personally, that's one of the reasons I admire him.

 

As for your tree cache...always check the attributes on a cache. It's possible (even likely) there is a tree-climbing attribute you may not have noticed. I've been guilty of overlooking that stuff before...but it's entirely possible the CO just didn't mark it that way. It's always best to at least skim the D/T ratings and the attributes to see if anything stands out. You can save yourself a fair amount of frustration in some instances.

Edited by J Grouchy
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4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

But those are the *real* geocachers. Would you really trust geocaching advice from someone that was doused in Ushers new cologne? You might might to avoid any events attended by Clan Riffster. I hear he has a smelly hat. Joking aside, it sounds like the event you attended was too focused on finding nearby caches. The original purpose of geocaching events was to provide a venue and time for geocachers to socialize, perhaps get advice, but not specifically for the purpose of finding caches. Unfortunately, that's becoming less and less the case.

 

I've shown up to events covered head-to-toe in mud, and I don't give a flying carp what some n00b thinks about that.

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4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

But those are the *real* geocachers. Would you really trust geocaching advice from someone that was doused in Ushers new cologne? You might might to avoid any events attended by Clan Riffster. I hear he has a smelly hat. Joking aside, it sounds like the event you attended was too focused on finding nearby caches. The original purpose of geocaching events was to provide a venue and time for geocachers to socialize, perhaps get advice, but not specifically for the purpose of finding caches. Unfortunately, that's becoming less and less the case.

 

I've shown up to events covered head-to-toe in mud, and I don't give a flying carp what some n00b thinks about that.

He just voiced an opinion. It's no big deal. Edited by KaRue
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If they cant find a cache they assume its missing and post horrible logs. Well, just because you can not find it does NOT mean that it is missing. Perhaps they should, at the very least, read the cache page! OH! its a puzzle? theres no container here? (face-plant) We have had caches ARCHIVED almost INSTANTLY by a reviewer based on a single complaint that its missing by a newbie and that cacher was SO angry they remover an entire historical trail series !

 

If true, the reviewer in question sounds fairly trigger-happy. That's not the appropriate response, so I wonder if there's more to it than just a newbie DNFing it.

 

I haven't seen that. GC#s please.

 

All of the archived caches in this person's profile were archived by the owner because they couldn't keep up maintenance on them.

 

He's not talking about his own caches, and possibly is referring to the same reviewer who publishes my caches. I'd like to know which ones were archived like that. Sometimes a noob places an NA when it should be a DNF. The reviewer may erroneously disable it for a month, but not instant archive.

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4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

But those are the *real* geocachers. Would you really trust geocaching advice from someone that was doused in Ushers new cologne? You might might to avoid any events attended by Clan Riffster. I hear he has a smelly hat. Joking aside, it sounds like the event you attended was too focused on finding nearby caches. The original purpose of geocaching events was to provide a venue and time for geocachers to socialize, perhaps get advice, but not specifically for the purpose of finding caches. Unfortunately, that's becoming less and less the case.

 

I've shown up to events covered head-to-toe in mud, and I don't give a flying carp what some n00b thinks about that.

He just voiced an opinion. It's no big deal.

 

Yes, and my opinion is that when you join an established organization of people, you follow their lead rather than stomping in with a list of commands. Boo hoo, everyone smells, I can't climb trees, and now I'm going to strangle trees with impenetrable locks. Great addition to the ranks, obviously.

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4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

But those are the *real* geocachers. Would you really trust geocaching advice from someone that was doused in Ushers new cologne? You might might to avoid any events attended by Clan Riffster. I hear he has a smelly hat. Joking aside, it sounds like the event you attended was too focused on finding nearby caches. The original purpose of geocaching events was to provide a venue and time for geocachers to socialize, perhaps get advice, but not specifically for the purpose of finding caches. Unfortunately, that's becoming less and less the case.

 

I've shown up to events covered head-to-toe in mud, and I don't give a flying carp what some n00b thinks about that.

He just voiced an opinion. It's no big deal.

 

Yes, and my opinion is that when you join an established organization of people, you follow their lead rather than stomping in with a list of commands. Boo hoo, everyone smells, I can't climb trees, and now I'm going to strangle trees with impenetrable locks. Great addition to the ranks, obviously.

And that's your opinion. My point simply was that everyone has one. It's how the world turns after all.
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4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

But those are the *real* geocachers. Would you really trust geocaching advice from someone that was doused in Ushers new cologne? You might might to avoid any events attended by Clan Riffster. I hear he has a smelly hat. Joking aside, it sounds like the event you attended was too focused on finding nearby caches. The original purpose of geocaching events was to provide a venue and time for geocachers to socialize, perhaps get advice, but not specifically for the purpose of finding caches. Unfortunately, that's becoming less and less the case.

 

I've shown up to events covered head-to-toe in mud, and I don't give a flying carp what some n00b thinks about that.

He just voiced an opinion. It's no big deal.

 

Yes, and my opinion is that when you join an established organization of people, you follow their lead rather than stomping in with a list of commands. Boo hoo, everyone smells, I can't climb trees, and now I'm going to strangle trees with impenetrable locks. Great addition to the ranks, obviously.

And that's your opinion. My point simply was that everyone has one. It's how the world turns after all.

Particularly in a discussion forum. :blink:

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I've read through this forum post, and would like to post from the other side of the spectrum...the intro player. <snip>

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

Wahoo!

 

Glad that you're new, and that you're taking time to get involved in more than just the finding of geocaches that goes on with the greater geocaching community. From these forums to local organization, local events to giant nation-wide Megas, you sound like just the person who will enjoy sticking around for a while.

 

But really quickly, I'd like to address how you signed off. Having read the thread top to bottom myself many times, I feel the need to point out that the original post (OP) and title were quickly addressed in the first or second page. Not many of us agree that "INTRO APP users are killing the hobby"; that's a pretty extreme viewpoint on the greater spectrum of even what you see from we, the disparaged curmudgeons, here in the forums.

 

The entire thread does a pretty good job of addressing ideas and complaints as they come up, and really moved on to say that the vast majority of users don't think that "intro app users are killing the hobby". Rather, we think that Groundspeak has an opportunity to develop processes and applications that can foster a more inclusive, descriptive, and involved version of what they've been turning out lately. We all have been batting around ideas of how to improve the App, but first and foremost is the need for...as you've seen throughout this thread...validated email accounts.

 

As you're posting here in the forums, you likely have a validated email account--you've also said you have had communication via mail system with other users. Therein you've set yourself up as not a "killer" of this hobby (even if we wanted to use that radical a term to describe the actual circumstances). So, that said, WELCOME! You're already doing what we all wish other new users would do--communicate! Be involved! Get interested! Have a desire to learn how we play this game! Thank you for that.

 

I, as others likely would agree, am thankful that you've shared these viewpoints. It only goes to support much of what many gripes about this game are on a regular basis. The only thing you can do is continue to reach out to other users until you encounter those who are helpful, speak your language, and are fun to be around. That's hard to come by sometimes, and also takes time if you're not an extrovert.

 

Others have addressed your concerns point-by-point, and I'll only address your last couple of questions.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

Others have provided links, so that's been covered. The guidelines are extensive, but reviewing them regularly is the best thing to do.

 

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without
Starting out, I'd be sure to have a strong flashlight, tweezers, pen, pencil, extra zip baggies of various sizes, some rite-in-the-rain notebooks or looseleaf paper for logbook help, rubber/nitrile gloves, a trash bag for CITO around cache sites, Technu or other stuff to deal with poison plants right away. Outside of your bag, I'd also hotlink the "Getting Started" forum and poke around, ask questions, and get to know some more about the game. That TOTT is better than anything--"knowledge is half the battle..."

 

- Best national events to attend

Ambitious! Geowoodstock, of course. Groundspeak Block Party. Hatfields and McCoys (I think its called) in your general region has been told to me as a fun one.

 

But really, give more local events a try. Even put on your own event over coffee and ask folks to come for a general "Meet and Greet". There's no better way to attend an event you'll enjoy than to host your own! :anibad:

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So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

 

A humorous post (I didn't quote the funny bits).

 

Someone already posted the link to the guidelines. There is also the help center. The information on the website is very good. The concern about "Intro App users" is they don't need to use the website. I learned all about caching from the website. I had been caching for a year before I went to my first event. While we debate lots of finer points here, it's really not that complicated.

 

I don't carry any tools regularly other than a flashlight, my GPS, and a pen... and a walking stick. I keep meaning to get a pair of tweezers; not so much for small logs as for getting thorns and splinters out of my fingers.

 

As far as your experience at an event - events vary as do people. Two newbies could attend the same event and have a completely different experience depending who they talked to. Some people are helpful and like to explain things to new people. Other people may have different personal hygiene than yourself. Some may be disgruntled about caching and come across very negatively.

 

I don't live in the same country as you so I can't recommend national events... though I think it is easier to talk to people and ask questions at smaller events.

 

In my area there are Facebook groups for local areas and lots of people post there to ask questions. There is also a separate "getting started" forum here.

 

As far as bad cache experiences.... we all find good caches, and ones which are "bad" - not maintained, missing, etc. That goes with the game. A tree climbing cache should have a terrain rating which reflects that, and ideally a tree climbing attribute though that is not mandatory. It's part of the game that sometimes you find that a cache is beyond your physical ability (or you need to return with a ladder).

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Thanks for the reply. It was a tough pill to swallow to drive 30 minutes from home to find a cach, only to discover its hiding spot is 20 feet up in a tree. No mention on the description/hint about needing special tools to access. So It's made me curious of what some people carry in their kits.

LOL

I have ALWAYS carried a three-fly 30' heavy-duty aluminum extension ladder (rated for firefighting service) in my backpack! Can't believe you would leave the house without one... such a n00b!

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Thanks for the reply. It was a tough pill to swallow to drive 30 minutes from home to find a cach, only to discover its hiding spot is 20 feet up in a tree. No mention on the description/hint about needing special tools to access. So It's made me curious of what some people carry in their kits.

LOL

I have ALWAYS carried a three-fly 30' heavy-duty aluminum extension ladder (rated for firefighting service) in my backpack! Can't believe you would leave the house without one... such a n00b!

Crud. Now I feel positively wimpy carrying around my super light (could-twirl-it-around-your-little-finger-if-you-wanted-to) bunk bed ladder that I stole from dad's camper. Question: How do you keep Mr-30-foot from snagging the sticker bushes and low tree limbs?

 

:lol:

 

There have been quite a few times when I've looked at the terrain rating, said "I sure hope that means it's just on a really steep hillside," gotten to GZ, spotted the thing way, way up in a tree and given a heavy sign because that's my no-fly zone. And dad'll notice if I steal his Mr-30-foot.

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I personally use the intro app as well as being "just a member". I do plan to upgrade both the app and my membership when I can afford to. I see legitimate arguments for both sides. Personally, I happened upon this site while helping my son hunt something for an earth science report almost 3 years ago. We met up with a local cacher who gave us general intro to caching and sent us on our way. After SEVERAL dnfs we got discouraged. I would have loved to have had someone spend the day with us or even just a few hours explaining things as we went. We just got back into caching a couple of months ago and are making an effort to go at least every other weekend. Still not real sure exactly what we are doing other than finding caches and signing logs, but at least we have fun and it gets my son out of the house and active. I would welcome an "intro course" but the only cachers we know are each other. Just my two cents.

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Greetings, springs21. If you don't remember or for the others here, I was one of the two hosts of the event I assume you're referencing. I don't think there were any others in town that day. I'm very sorry that you did not have a good experience. I host monthly meet and greet events at home in Maryland and always get positive feedback. I'd likewise thought that everyone had seemed to have good time at this one. I'll try to answer some of your concerns from my point of view.

 

I've read through this forum post, and would like to post from the other side of the spectrum...the intro player. I started playing two months ago, and searched around for a group event to receive more information and guidance. My sibling (also new with around 150 finds)and I ended up traveling to Charlotte, NC (near her home)to attend a group event on August 31. The seasoned cach players at this event made things more difficult, as they seemed more interested in peddling other websites, and trying to force other to play side games rather than explain proper edicit for new geocaching.

 

When I host an event, I tend to keep it very unstructured. My plan is to mix cachers and food and let it go from there. Normally, if someone introduces themselves a rookie cacher, at least some of the others (myself included) will be happy to offer advice, tips and tricks and answer any questions you would have. This was a little bit of an unusual event in that at least half of the attendees were active users of other geocaching sites and other geo-location games. That being the case, I believe I ended up talking with some of these folks a lot. Not matter what, it is unfortunately difficult for me to have involved conversations with every attendee at each event.

 

I won't name them here, but yes there are other sites and games. While I can't attest to everything that everyone said to you, I would STRONGLY doubt anyone tried to FORCE you to use any of these. The event itself was also listed on one of them, though.

 

Now before everyone under the sun jumps on me saying that is not the norm, I will say I am confirmed for one of the 1 million geocach. meet and greet events in Southern Georgia scheduled this Saturday. I'm giving it a second go, of trying to learn more about this hobby and how to better respect it,

 

I'm glad to hear that. If someone asks me for one piece of advice for a new geocacher, it is always to find other local cachers thru events or local forums and get to know them and, thereby, the hobby. I'm glad that you are going to give it another shot. It might not all happen in one meeting, but just get to know folks and join in on the conversations and ask questions.

 

...but from someone just coming in, I would like to give the following comments.

 

1. New players (less than six months) should not be used to peddle other websites similar to geocaching. The whole process of geocaching is overwhelming to new players, please don't add confusion.

 

There are occasionally "Geocaching 101" events, but not every event is specifically designed to teach new cachers about the game. See my comments above, though. Groundspeak does not own the events (or the caches). They only own and control the event/cache listing pages. While they do have guidelines on what makes good and bad swag for caches, I don't think they have any interest in controlling what can be discussed at an event. IF they would allow it, I would have been happy to reference that this was likely to involve more of a indy caching orientation, but understand why that wouldn't have been appropriate.

 

2. When hosting events as seasoned veterans, please do not pair a group of adults with a group with children. Those single adults are either having a day out away from their kids, or may not be kid friendly.

 

I have NO IDEA what you're referring to. There was no planned pairing of cachers at my event. Maybe this is something you've heard of from other events?

 

3. Encourage new player, but don't ruin it for them! We told the organizer that we were going to head up the street to attempt "octopus garden" (one of the oldest geocaches around our area), and the guy pretty much gave away the location before we even left the parking lot.

 

You must be mistaken as to who you were talking to about Octopus Garden. While I did find it when I was in town 2 years ago, I didn't talk to anyone about it at my event. I did hear someone talking (to you?) about it that morning. I recall overhearing advice on the approach and that it wasn't what it used to be. I don't recall anything more than that.

 

4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

I promise you by my co-host and I had showers before coming to the event and I even used deodorant. I can't attest to the other attendees, but I did not notice any especially ripe folks. Given that it was at 6:30 AM, I'd be surprised if anyone had done a lot of caching directly before showing up.

 

5. Own your caches! I've got a whoppping total of 52 completed, I've attempted at least a dozen that were gone. Over half the ones I found were in such poor shape, it's clear they have not received much love lately. ...and yes I bring spare logs to replace if needed.

 

While not pertaining to my event, I'll agree with you here - in general, at least. Too many cachers put out hides and then forget about them or don't do maintenance visits. One thing that does help is to log your DNF's when you can't find one (knowing it may not be gone, you may just not have found it) and let the owner know if there is a problem when you find it. While making pre-emptive maintenance checks is a good idea, we all have lives to live and other priorities. Responsible owners, though, are happy to check on caches when it appears there is a problem.

 

6. I contacted my local geocaching club (about 45 miles south of me) as I was interested in setting up a puzzle cache based on a great one I solved in Texas. I asked foradvice for a first time person setting up a cach and received the following reply (and I quote) "In the last 6 months our reviewer for caches in GA has been very strict and has frustrated many of us so much that we are no longer interested in hiding caches." This doesn't help your game get better with encouragement like this going to new players.

 

Again, I agree. He may just be accurately conveying the general feeling of the local caching community resulting from what they see as an overly aggressive reviewer.

 

So stepping off my soapbox now, I'd love to understand this hobby better and if you could direct me (with reply or hyperlink location) to the following locations it would be nice.

 

- Specific guidelines for hiding

- Abnormal tools in your geohunting kit that you now can't live without

- Best national events to attend

 

Thanks in advance

 

Springs21 (one of the guys killing your hobby)

 

Others have answered these, but I agree that Geowoodstock is THE premier national (international, really) event to attend. I invite you to make the drive up to Maryland over Memorial Day weekend next year. I'm on the planning committee (for kids activities) and am confident Geowoodstock XIII will be a great event.

 

I would also recommend checking out the various geocaching podcasts. I would name one in particular hosted by HeadHardHat and his wife (of North Carolina) that is especially geared toward new cachers, but I'm not sure that would be allowable.

 

Honestly, no hard feelings. Please feel free to drop me a note offline (PM me) if I can offer any other assistance or advice.

 

Also, I don't necessarily think that users of the intro app are ruining the game. There are issues relating to them tending not to be as educated about the written and unwritten rules of the game and not needing a validated e-mail, so cache owners and others can't reach out to them with advice when they see things that might be a problem. However, today's intro app user may become tomorrow's seasoned cacher.

 

Welcome to the game.

 

Happy Trails!

Edited by DudleyGrunt
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4. Deodorant and a shower are a must. I know we are all heading out for a day of getting dirty and hot, but showing up for your event smelling ripe does little to encourage others to attend your future events.

 

Around here the majority of events take place in the later afternoon or evening (even on the weekend). You cannot expect that the cachers who often come from relatively far away have not spent some time with caching prior to the event. Moreover, there are events that take place at locations one first needs to reach via a hike (e.g. in mountain huts). If you expect that the event organizer and the participants arrive fresh at every event, then you expect something which is pretty unrealistic and does not fit to the outdoor character of geocaching in my mind. It's like expecting that the participants of a run arrive fresh after the run before having had the chance to have a shower.

 

Geocaching is an outdoor activity and not a bridge club. I do not mind if someone who has a problem with the fact that outdoor activities leave traces decides not to take part in geocaching events.

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Methinks the most of this thread is quite obsolete due to app revisions.

 

I’m still making my caches PMO on GC.COM for the lack of validated contact for those users. That’s been a problem – lack of contact. Sometimes, you have that with regular site users too, but very rarely.

 

As for the trees and ladders… well, climbing also isn’t my strength, but that’s mostly obvious from the Terrain rating. I can always come, look and DNF with no problem. (Not finding a D1/T1 is embarassing, but also happens. Not finding a D3/T4½ is something to not even look twice at.) And recently, together with cachers I met during caching or on events, I’ve climbed some trees, even. So, one learns.

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Methinks the most of this thread is quite obsolete due to app revisions.

 

I’m still making my caches PMO on GC.COM for the lack of validated contact for those users. That’s been a problem – lack of contact. Sometimes, you have that with regular site users too, but very rarely.

 

As for the trees and ladders… well, climbing also isn’t my strength, but that’s mostly obvious from the Terrain rating. I can always come, look and DNF with no problem. (Not finding a D1/T1 is embarassing, but also happens. Not finding a D3/T4½ is something to not even look twice at.) And recently, together with cachers I met during caching or on events, I’ve climbed some trees, even. So, one learns.

 

App revisions haven't stopped unverified n00bs from stealing caches and trackables. I will never place another traditional.

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Methinks the most of this thread is quite obsolete due to app revisions.

 

I’m still making my caches PMO on GC.COM for the lack of validated contact for those users. That’s been a problem – lack of contact. Sometimes, you have that with regular site users too, but very rarely.

 

As for the trees and ladders… well, climbing also isn’t my strength, but that’s mostly obvious from the Terrain rating. I can always come, look and DNF with no problem. (Not finding a D1/T1 is embarassing, but also happens. Not finding a D3/T4½ is something to not even look twice at.) And recently, together with cachers I met during caching or on events, I’ve climbed some trees, even. So, one learns.

 

App revisions haven't stopped unverified n00bs from stealing caches and trackables. I will never place another traditional.

 

Do a quick search of the forums and you will find out that nothing will stop people from stealing caches and trackables. That is not a noob problem. That is a geocaching problem.

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Methinks the most of this thread is quite obsolete due to app revisions.

 

I’m still making my caches PMO on GC.COM for the lack of validated contact for those users. That’s been a problem – lack of contact. Sometimes, you have that with regular site users too, but very rarely.

 

As for the trees and ladders… well, climbing also isn’t my strength, but that’s mostly obvious from the Terrain rating. I can always come, look and DNF with no problem. (Not finding a D1/T1 is embarassing, but also happens. Not finding a D3/T4½ is something to not even look twice at.) And recently, together with cachers I met during caching or on events, I’ve climbed some trees, even. So, one learns.

 

App revisions haven't stopped unverified n00bs from stealing caches and trackables. I will never place another traditional.

 

Do a quick search of the forums and you will find out that nothing will stop people from stealing caches and trackables. That is not a noob problem. That is a geocaching problem.

 

Indeed.

 

It's much, much worse when you have the misfortune of having one of your caches listed on the intro app.

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App revisions haven't stopped unverified n00bs from stealing caches and trackables. I will never place another traditional.

 

Do a quick search of the forums and you will find out that nothing will stop people from stealing caches and trackables. That is not a noob problem. That is a geocaching problem.

 

Indeed.

 

It's much, much worse when you have the misfortune of having one of your caches listed on the intro app.

 

I've always wondered how this has been determined as absolute truth; if not a presumption based on educated guessing.

What evidence is there that it is "n00bs" (hate that term, comes off patronizing and derogatory) are the perpetrators of stolen/missing geocaches? Or even a majority of that problem? Let alone "n00bs" who are using the INTRO app?

Really, evidence would be useful :ph34r:

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I've always wondered how this has been determined as absolute truth; if not a presumption based on educated guessing.

What evidence is there that it is "n00bs" (hate that term, comes off patronizing and derogatory) are the perpetrators of stolen/missing geocaches? Or even a majority of that problem? Let alone "n00bs" who are using the INTRO app?

Really, evidence would be useful :ph34r:

 

You're right. Of course, Groundspeak is likely in the best position to do good data collection on that.

 

All I know is that my husband and I rarely have problems with any of our geocaches, and ours are too difficult to appear on the intro app.

 

Based on my personal observations, I will *never* hide another traditional cache.

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It may be worth re-enforcing with the new members who are reading this thread...We (established cachers) don't had new members. We were all new once. We are just slagging on the way Groundspeak is using the free intro app to encourage new members to geocache without first finding out what geocaching is.

 

When I started, I did hours of reading before I felt confidend enough to attempt making a find. That really helped alot. Once I did make that first find, I know what was expected of me. A lot of new members using the free intro app have no idea what geocaching even is, and are damaging the game due to a lack of knowledge.

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I've always wondered how this has been determined as absolute truth; if not a presumption based on educated guessing.

What evidence is there that it is "n00bs" (hate that term, comes off patronizing and derogatory) are the perpetrators of stolen/missing geocaches? Or even a majority of that problem? Let alone "n00bs" who are using the INTRO app?

Really, evidence would be useful :ph34r:

 

You're right. Of course, Groundspeak is likely in the best position to do good data collection on that.

 

All I know is that my husband and I rarely have problems with any of our geocaches, and ours are too difficult to appear on the intro app.

 

Based on my personal observations, I will *never* hide another traditional cache.

I agree with your idea of no longer hiding traditionals.

- But the only reason your caches wouldn't appear on the Intro app is none are traditionals (the only cache type Intro users can find), not that they're too difficult.

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I've always wondered how this has been determined as absolute truth; if not a presumption based on educated guessing.

What evidence is there that it is "n00bs" (hate that term, comes off patronizing and derogatory) are the perpetrators of stolen/missing geocaches? Or even a majority of that problem? Let alone "n00bs" who are using the INTRO app?

Really, evidence would be useful :ph34r:

 

You're right. Of course, Groundspeak is likely in the best position to do good data collection on that.

 

All I know is that my husband and I rarely have problems with any of our geocaches, and ours are too difficult to appear on the intro app.

 

Based on my personal observations, I will *never* hide another traditional cache.

I agree with your idea of no longer hiding traditionals.

- But the only reason your caches wouldn't appear on the Intro app is none are traditionals (the only cache type Intro users can find), not that they're too difficult.

 

Difficult traditionals don't appear either.

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I've always wondered how this has been determined as absolute truth; if not a presumption based on educated guessing.

What evidence is there that it is "n00bs" (hate that term, comes off patronizing and derogatory) are the perpetrators of stolen/missing geocaches? Or even a majority of that problem? Let alone "n00bs" who are using the INTRO app?

Really, evidence would be useful :ph34r:

 

You're right. Of course, Groundspeak is likely in the best position to do good data collection on that.

 

All I know is that my husband and I rarely have problems with any of our geocaches, and ours are too difficult to appear on the intro app.

 

Based on my personal observations, I will *never* hide another traditional cache.

I agree with your idea of no longer hiding traditionals.

- But the only reason your caches wouldn't appear on the Intro app is none are traditionals (the only cache type Intro users can find), not that they're too difficult.

 

Difficult traditionals don't appear either.

Not sure what you're getting at, but I agree.

- But you said yours were, "too difficult to appear on the intro app".

In reality, it's simply that none are traditionals.

In difficulty, three two out of your seven would qualify.

 

Edited... I take that back, two would, as one's a micro and 1.5 is the limit for those (in difficulty).

Edited by cerberus1
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Not sure what you're getting at, but I agree.

- But you said yours were, "too difficult to appear on the intro app".

In reality, it's simply that none are traditionals.

In difficulty, three two out of your seven would qualify.

 

Edited... I take that back, two would, as one's a micro and 1.5 is the limit for those (in difficulty).

 

I'm not exactly clear on why you've decided to nitpick my comment by combing through my profile, but let me assure you that the other people I cache with do not publish their caches under my name.

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Not sure what you're getting at, but I agree.

- But you said yours were, "too difficult to appear on the intro app".

In reality, it's simply that none are traditionals.

In difficulty, three two out of your seven would qualify.

 

Edited... I take that back, two would, as one's a micro and 1.5 is the limit for those (in difficulty).

 

I'm not exactly clear on why you've decided to nitpick my comment by combing through my profile, but let me assure you that the other people I cache with do not publish their caches under my name.

 

Not attempting to derail your whatever here, but I have followed some of your posts in this thread. My last to published hides, a simple tradational was found 8 min's after it published. The next one was a 1.5/1.5 ? hide, and a week later it was found. Next I plan a multi cache.

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Methinks the most of this thread is quite obsolete due to app revisions.

 

I’m still making my caches PMO on GC.COM for the lack of validated contact for those users. That’s been a problem – lack of contact. Sometimes, you have that with regular site users too, but very rarely.

 

As for the trees and ladders… well, climbing also isn’t my strength, but that’s mostly obvious from the Terrain rating. I can always come, look and DNF with no problem. (Not finding a D1/T1 is embarassing, but also happens. Not finding a D3/T4½ is something to not even look twice at.) And recently, together with cachers I met during caching or on events, I’ve climbed some trees, even. So, one learns.

 

App revisions haven't stopped unverified n00bs from stealing caches and trackables. I will never place another traditional.

 

Do a quick search of the forums and you will find out that nothing will stop people from stealing caches and trackables. That is not a noob problem. That is a geocaching problem.

 

Indeed.

 

It's much, much worse when you have the misfortune of having one of your caches listed on the intro app.

I don't understand "listed on the intro app" The intro app I have seems to list all the caches in the area except puzzles. I compared the two side-by-side last night and the only difference I saw was the "?" icons missing on the intro. Of course I AM a premium member. Perhaps that makes a difference. I think I'll log in with one of my sockpuppet accounts and see what it looks like- and possibly make a new account.

 

It just seems like this is much ado about nothing.

 

Of course, from the perspective of an old timer in the game, it is ALL much ado about nothing- especially in the forums (well maybe SOME of it is Macbeth). We have been discussing this same ol same ol since 2003.

 

Was the intro app to blame for all the stolen caches and uneven trades in 2003? As others have duly noted- NOT A NEW PROBLEM. The REAL reason caches are disappearing is global warming... and windmills... and smoking in public.

4911489948_56d8533645_t.jpgthe REAL reason dinosaurs became extinct by Dave's Domain, on Flickr

 

Now can we please get back to talking about those horrible lamppost caches, LOL?

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It may be worth re-enforcing with the new members who are reading this thread...We (established cachers) don't had new members. We were all new once. We are just slagging on the way Groundspeak is using the free intro app to encourage new members to geocache without first finding out what geocaching is.

 

When I started, I did hours of reading before I felt confidend enough to attempt making a find. That really helped alot. Once I did make that first find, I know what was expected of me. A lot of new members using the free intro app have no idea what geocaching even is, and are damaging the game due to a lack of knowledge.

The whole idea of a "caching license" was also beat to death in the olden days. "Study" need not be a requirement. The game is simple. "Seek, find, sign, log, replace, repeat." It's not rocket science.

 

A splash screen detailing the basics on first load would be sufficient "training." That is as much as any newcomer gets, any way they come in to the game. It is offered to read. One can read it or not. If they make it too long, it will be just like the "privacy statement-" only the lawyers and lawyer wannabees will read it.

 

I admin several groups on Flickr and I can tell you unequivocally from my experience there, NO ONE READS ANYTHING.

 

So. It is what it is. Short of a mandatory personal training session with an old timer, there is NO WAY to ensure that a newbie will get any information about the game. ANd even if you made newbies "get a license," some would likely still mess up. Hmm... speeding, drunk driving, texting... all done by people who had to take a test first. it is what it is. (I HATE that cliche'!)

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Kind of an interesting revelation... I have several accounts for different reasons, but I had never considered using any fake credentials before... I'm just not that kind of guy. Plus it has been at least 4 years since I set up an account and honestly didn't remember what was needed. So, I did an experiment...

 

I just installed the WINDOWS intro app on a new smartphone, created a bogus account with an email consisting of random letters and lo and behold, all the caches in the world open up before me! (well all but PMOs I guess)

 

Indeed there ARE SERIOUS PROBLEMS HERE.

 

But the real problem is not an intro app problem, it is a general GC problem... you see, I just did the same thing on my desktop computer... random username, simple password, bogus email... in like flynn!

 

The desktop website DOES have a tutorial video- very basic, nothing about trading, no "put it back like you found it." Cute and trendy, though.

 

Indeed the entire site is open to the dishonest. Hard to believe a 21st century, post 9-11 website could be TOTALLY DEVOID of security! This deserves its own topic if it does not already exist.

 

While admittedly, this is a silly game with no real monetary risk (come on, is that film can with the soaking wet piece of paper in it that you dumped under the lamppost skirt in the Wally World parking lot really THAT important?), i mean its not like someone can steal your life savings with a bogus GC account, but still- NO SECURITY?? WTH, the local pizza joint verifies my email address before I can make an order!

 

But, that said, adding security to account establishment will NOT stop caches from disappearing.

The bottom line is, when you place a cache it is vulnerable to attack by 7 billion people. If GC would fix these GLARING security flaws, it would be only vulnerable to about, oh, seven billion people. But at least the ones that are actually legitimately LOOKING for the cache would be, if not accountable or identifiable, at least contactable.

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It may be worth re-enforcing with the new members who are reading this thread...We (established cachers) don't had new members. We were all new once. We are just slagging on the way Groundspeak is using the free intro app to encourage new members to geocache without first finding out what geocaching is.

 

When I started, I did hours of reading before I felt confidend enough to attempt making a find. That really helped alot. Once I did make that first find, I know what was expected of me. A lot of new members using the free intro app have no idea what geocaching even is, and are damaging the game due to a lack of knowledge.

The whole idea of a "caching license" was also beat to death in the olden days. "Study" need not be a requirement. The game is simple. "Seek, find, sign, log, replace, repeat." It's not rocket science.

 

It's a very simple concept but surprising how many people miss the point. I've told a few people about geocaching and it's remarkable how many people assume the idea is to find the cache, take it with you and hide it somewhere else. If such a person downloaded a free trial app, created a free account, never had to enter any way to be contactable, and started playing the game the way they figured it was supposed to be played they would think they were being a good geocacher. After all, they'd found a few caches, hidden them somewhere else very promptly, entered the coordinates they were now hidden very accurately and so on. And there wouldn't be any way to let them know they were doing it wrong.

 

A splash screen detailing the basics on first load would be sufficient "training." That is as much as any newcomer gets, any way they come in to the game. It is offered to read. One can read it or not. If they make it too long, it will be just like the "privacy statement-" only the lawyers and lawyer wannabees will read it.

 

I admin several groups on Flickr and I can tell you unequivocally from my experience there, NO ONE READS ANYTHING.

 

I don't know that I'd say "no one reads anything" as a blanket statement. Certainly if someone is presented with an endlessly scrolling page of legalese the chances are they'll either just click Accept or navigate away from it. But a few basic outlines showing "How to get the most fun out of geocaching" rather than what looks like an endless list of "Rules of geocaching" might make it a little more appealing to read.

 

So. It is what it is. Short of a mandatory personal training session with an old timer, there is NO WAY to ensure that a newbie will get any information about the game. ANd even if you made newbies "get a license," some would likely still mess up. Hmm... speeding, drunk driving, texting... all done by people who had to take a test first. it is what it is. (I HATE that cliche'!)

 

I'm sure there's a happy medium that doesn't involve mandatory lessons and licenses but also makes it as easy as possible to read and understand. People are lazy, so design interfaces so that the path of least resistance takes them through a basic tutorial and offers more to those that want it. Ultimately if people are intent on stealing caches and travel bugs (as opposed to not understanding what they are there for) there's virtually nothing that can be done about it, but it makes sense to at least offer information to the people who would be tagged as "thieves" based on nothing more than misunderstanding the game. If the idea is to "take something, and leave something of comparable value" how is the newbie cacher supposed to know that the Happy Meal toy with the funny metal tag on it isn't a trade item to take home for their kids?

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It may be worth re-enforcing with the new members who are reading this thread...We (established cachers) don't had new members. We were all new once. We are just slagging on the way Groundspeak is using the free intro app to encourage new members to geocache without first finding out what geocaching is.

 

When I started, I did hours of reading before I felt confidend enough to attempt making a find. That really helped alot. Once I did make that first find, I know what was expected of me. A lot of new members using the free intro app have no idea what geocaching even is, and are damaging the game due to a lack of knowledge.

The whole idea of a "caching license" was also beat to death in the olden days. "Study" need not be a requirement. The game is simple. "Seek, find, sign, log, replace, repeat." It's not rocket science.

 

A splash screen detailing the basics on first load would be sufficient "training." That is as much as any newcomer gets, any way they come in to the game. It is offered to read. One can read it or not. If they make it too long, it will be just like the "privacy statement-" only the lawyers and lawyer wannabees will read it.

 

I admin several groups on Flickr and I can tell you unequivocally from my experience there, NO ONE READS ANYTHING.

 

So. It is what it is. Short of a mandatory personal training session with an old timer, there is NO WAY to ensure that a newbie will get any information about the game. ANd even if you made newbies "get a license," some would likely still mess up. Hmm... speeding, drunk driving, texting... all done by people who had to take a test first. it is what it is. (I HATE that cliche'!)

 

Welcome back, Confucius' Cat!! I remember you! :)

 

Not to be arrogant or anything, but I'm fellow old timer who has basically never stepped away from the game for any significant time. I've never gone more than 21 days without finding a cache, and before 2013, I could have said that was only 14 days. Have placed 51 caches over the years. Let me tell you, this intro app is pure freaking evil!!! :P

 

The number of Geocaching.com accounts has more than tripled since 2010, from 3,000,000 to well over 10,000,000. That's obviously mostly due to the "app crowd" (smartphone apps came out in 2009). The free intro app is only about a year or two old. It has, in my and many other people's opinions, brought with it an unprecedented level of "newbie cluelessness". How clueless? In some cases it's been speculated some of these people don't even know a player like themselves placed that cache for them to find, and they think there's some kind of cache fairy. They're just playing another game on their phone. We ain't talking about this being 2004, and some guy who went out and spent $200 for a Garmin doesn't know how to log a travel bug. :)

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It may be worth re-enforcing with the new members who are reading this thread...We (established cachers) don't had new members. We were all new once. We are just slagging on the way Groundspeak is using the free intro app to encourage new members to geocache without first finding out what geocaching is.

 

When I started, I did hours of reading before I felt confidend enough to attempt making a find. That really helped alot. Once I did make that first find, I know what was expected of me. A lot of new members using the free intro app have no idea what geocaching even is, and are damaging the game due to a lack of knowledge.

The whole idea of a "caching license" was also beat to death in the olden days. "Study" need not be a requirement. The game is simple. "Seek, find, sign, log, replace, repeat." It's not rocket science.

 

A splash screen detailing the basics on first load would be sufficient "training." That is as much as any newcomer gets, any way they come in to the game. It is offered to read. One can read it or not. If they make it too long, it will be just like the "privacy statement-" only the lawyers and lawyer wannabees will read it.

 

I admin several groups on Flickr and I can tell you unequivocally from my experience there, NO ONE READS ANYTHING.

 

So. It is what it is. Short of a mandatory personal training session with an old timer, there is NO WAY to ensure that a newbie will get any information about the game. ANd even if you made newbies "get a license," some would likely still mess up. Hmm... speeding, drunk driving, texting... all done by people who had to take a test first. it is what it is. (I HATE that cliche'!)

 

Welcome back, Confucius' Cat!! I remember you! :)

 

Not to be arrogant or anything, but I'm fellow old timer who has basically never stepped away from the game for any significant time. I've never gone more than 21 days without finding a cache, and before 2013, I could have said that was only 14 days. Have placed 51 caches over the years. Let me tell you, this intro app is pure freaking evil!!! :P

 

The number of Geocaching.com accounts has more than tripled since 2010, from 3,000,000 to well over 10,000,000. That's obviously mostly due to the "app crowd" (smartphone apps came out in 2009). The free intro app is only about a year or two old. It has, in my and many other people's opinions, brought with it an unprecedented level of "newbie cluelessness". How clueless? In some cases it's been speculated some of these people don't even know a player like themselves placed that cache for them to find, and they think there's some kind of cache fairy. They're just playing another game on their phone. We ain't talking about this being 2004, and some guy who went out and spent $200 for a Garmin doesn't know how to log a travel bug. :)

Well. Glad to be back. Doubt I will be anywhere near as active as I was back in the day, though.

I don't recognise your name, but alas, I think I might be getting "old." Did you have a name change?

 

Anyways, I DO see the problem. I guess we all do. The bigger problem is how to fix it.

First and foremost, the site needs basic security in setting up new accounts. As ridiculously unsupervised as account creation is, I wonder how many of those 10M accounts are even real? And no doubt, many of them were "one time use,"

 

"One time use." That is perhaps the salvation in this issue. People who do not have a clue will burn out quickly. Damage minimised, but not eliminated or repaired.

 

Until GC fixes or at least puts a bandaid on the problem to stop the bleeding, what do WE do?

 

Suggestions:

1. I don't think higher difficulty ratings will make much difference. I see high rated caches on my copy of the windows phone app whilst logged in to a totally bogus usernams- just looked at a 4* 10 mi south. Besides, over rating will "kill the game" as well.

 

2. Obviously, PMO will work to some extent- but all one has to do is click the "pay" link and they can be a PREMIUM MEMBER without a clue! But going PMO diminishes your cache's exposure. Ultimately, if the USERS go this route, GC benefits from additional income from real cachers who don't have anything to hunt unless they pay up. Might not be a bad thing overall. Might end up splitting the community more so than it is already split.

 

3. Concentrate on better hides- longer walks, more difficult locations... the rogues will still have access but I would bet they won't stay on the trail long enough to actually find (and destroy) the cache.

 

GC needs to immediately institute new account security, verifying information the same way everybody else on the internet does. Then they need to send emails to every user asking to verify their email (same way everybody else on the internet does) and block all accounts whose verification fails- with provision to "reset your account" if the person tries to log in. I know this part is difficult but others do it successfully.

 

This would actually be a very simple (LOL) thing to implement in the login process... if the email has not been verified (all accounts at first setup) the site sends an automatic email with a link. If the link is not clicked, user is not logged in., but offered alternatives to restart the account. This actually should be a periodic function to ensure that all members MAINTAIN usable email addresses.

 

This would be a hassle for my own accounts at this time (except for my main account) because my old email address got hacked and I closed it about a year ago. (So I reckon I better change the other accounts before GC takes my advice, LOL)

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Getting an email account is free. Using that email account to create a geocaching account is free. Validation for that email account is also free.

 

I think that's your point, but I'm just driving it home...

Pretty close. My point is that these things need to be REQUIRED in order to establish an account, log on and use the app. YOUR point, that it will STILL be FREE, is also a good point to appease thos who whine, "but..but..but..geocaching is supposed to be FREE." "Free" means "no money changes hands directly for the service," not "you can be anonymous."

 

I am not looking to fight with them, if i have issues I email a reviewer ..but in general i sometimes email to keep them from posting spoilers and.or posting a log that is more than a TFTC ..

 

An excellent "fix" for this issue, from the GC programming side, would be to implement a system similar to that which FaceBook uses for timeline posts, namely, alerting the cache owner and requiring "permission" (by checkbox) to add the log entry. Until that permission is given, the cache page would just show "found," "not found," or other appropriate "canned" log. It puts a little more work on the cache owner, but it also stops the possibility of rude comments being seen on the cache page for an indefinite period of time (forever in the case of an absentee cache owner). All in all, this would be a simple common sense improvement.

 

I have been the victim of rude comments, posted by others on my caches, pissing off other cachers. I deleted and reported. But in the mean time, damage was done. There are similar issue with Flickr. They solve it with essentially a "whitelist" option. But that really wouldn't work here.

 

RE: "TFTC" IMO, that is a perfectly fine log entry- especially for caches where the owner basically threw it down and posted the coordinates. Actually, I seldom log those at all... but that has gotten me in trouble for saying that in the past. TS though, I will log/not log what I wish.

 

"TFTC" should be a checkbox. Shoot me.

 

Not everyone has kissed the Blarney stone. Just accept a basic log as a gift, same as your cache was a gift.

Edited by Confucius' Cat
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