Letterbox proximity etiquette

[+Theseus]

I was out scoping locations for a puzzle cache today when I came across a fantastic spot. It was an old, gnarled tree with several holes for hiding. Then I looked down and saw a container. Hmm, is this someone else's puzzle cache or a letterbox, I wondered. It was the latter. Two feet above the letterbox in the tree there was another ideal hide location. Would it be bad form to hide my geocache so close to an existing letterbox? The letterbox is more visible so cachers and letterbox seekers would almost certainly see the letterbox first and only find the geocache if they kept searching. The cache is small and commpletely hidden. I would put a note in the description to watch out for the letterbox. Thoughts? Thanks.

[+stijnhommes]

If you put a cache in the same tree as a letterbox, you're going to have at least one person, probably more, who doesn't read the description well enough (or not at all) leading to missing stamps and faulty logs in the letterbox. I would recommend against doing it.

 

If you do it anyway, please coordinate with the letterbox owner so they can clearly mark their letterbox as NOT a geocache (while you label your cache as not a letterbox) to avoid any potential confusion.

[+St.Matthew]

I wouldn't. Cachers will likely mess with the letterbox and vice versa.

[+L0ne.R]

If the box doesn't have enough information about who owns it, you can try a search on Atlas Quest....it accepts decimal coordinates, example: 42.39285 -71.1976

If it's not listed on AQ you could try the LBNA site but you can't search by coordinates.

 

I think you can expect that the letterboxer will 1. appreciate that you contacted her/him first, and 2. would prefer that the two boxes do not occupy the same tree.

 

Hopefully you'll find something about 100 meters away that will work just as well.

Edited October 26, 2013 by L0ne R

[+clarinetqueen]

In my area there are a couple of places where letterboxes and geocaches are only a few feet apart. The letterbox gets mistaken for the cache ALL THE TIME - especially by newbies. I don't think there's any rules against it, but it does cause a lot of issues.

[+dprovan]

I've found a few letterboxes right next to caches, and I've always found it amusing. At least on the ones I noticed. Obviously I can't tell you how many letterboxes I've signed without realizing that they weren't the cache I was looking for. I don't think there's any etiquette covering this, but I'd suggest steering away from doing it intentionally just to avoid the confusion.

[+fbingha]

As everyone has said, just don't do it. The letterbox will end up getting logged as your cache.

 

I once found a letterbox before I found the cache a few feet away. I knew it wasn't the cache but others weren't as astute as I found geocaching signatures in the letterbox stamp book.

[+lamoracke]

I would steer away from the letterbox too. I wanted to hide my State Park cache in the area where a cache was back in 2001 but when I checked that area, I found a letterbox there. I decided against the spot. There are no proximity rules, its just annoying to find the wrong cache first, and some folks especially newer ones are likely to sign that one and not your actual cache.

 

(changed high to hide)

Edited October 25, 2013 by lamoracke

[+MKFmly]

There are many many "fantastic" locations to hide a cache, and only a small proportion of them have caches already. "You snooze, you lose" as the saying goes and many cachers have been beaten to "fantastic" locations.

 

Ultimately, the geocaching "guidelines" allow a cache to be located there however etiquette would suggest that the location be treated as if there was a cache hidden there already. Move on and find another "fantastic" spot for your new cache at least the minimum distance away. Put yourself in the letterboxer's position...

 

Alternately, the letterboxer may be approachable; and cooperatively a new and improved letterbox hybrid cache could be listed/hidden right there.

Edited October 25, 2013 by MKFmly

[+Viajero Perdido]

I had to go look and see if you were maybe talking about this tree in Michigan.

 

The owner archived their cache since the LB was there first.

[+Theseus]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'm going to relocate the cache. Part of my reluctance is that the location is out on a point surrounded by water with another cache just over a 10th of a mile behind it so I can't just walk another 100 feet and hide there. I'll find another spot that doesn't disturb the letterbox. After further reflection I realized that if I were the letterbox owner I would be irked if someone hid a cache in the same tree. Thanks again and happy caching.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I had a letterboxer find one of my mystery caches. She created an account here to let me know she found it and hid her letterbox somewhere else. It is not an established etiquette, perhaps. But best not to hide your cache too near a letterbox. I have found four letterboxes in close proximity to caches. (Found the letterboxes first...) It causes confusion. Best to be avoided.

[+NeverSummer]

I had a cache located near to a letterbox. It was over 40 feet away, and my cache description decribed the container in specifics. Despite my best efforts, people kept finding the letterbox and not my cache.

 

Don't expect something as obvious as explicit descriptions on the cache page to keep folks from finding the wrong container, even 40-50 feet away. Plus, with the amount I now see of people not reading the description or previous logs at all (thanks in part to the lack of interface in the smartphone apps), this is a non-geocaching.com proximity issue that is worth adding to distance considerations.

 

A good spot is hard to pass up, but if someone else from any other game has taken the spot, it is best to move on, I think.

[+Ma & Pa]

Here is a cache that was placed very close to a letterbox. People have been signing one or the other and sometimes both. The cache disappeared and appears to have been replaced by a throwdown. People are still confused and signing the wrong one.

 

http://coord.info/GC44PJ3

 

You will note that a cacher accused us of placing a throwdown and then said he signed the throwdown and the letterbox and claimed a find

[+terratin]

I found a cache next to the letterbox as well. It's really far from ideal. Even though the cache owner writes that the black container is not the cache, people log it all the time, and through trackables inside. I would say no. There are other nice places.

[+WarNinjas]

I have seen it a bunch of times so it is probably no big deal but it is up to you. I would probably not do it if I knew about the letterbox but have done it not knowing about it.

[+WarNinjas]

Maybe if you find the letterbox owner you could suggest making it a hybrid.

[+briansnat]

If you hide it too close to a letterbox you're going to have a significant portion of searchers finding the LB and mistaking it for the cache. Odds are that eventually someone will trade out the LB stamp, pissing off the LB owner.

 

I recall seeing some logs on a cache of mine that made me question whether or not they actually found my cache. While making a maintenance visit I discovered a letterbox about 50 feet away and it was full of geocacher logs. I added a note to the LB saying "This is not the geocache, keep looking (and don't take the stamp)". Cachers were still logging the LB instead of my cache. I finally moved my cache about 150 feet away to keep them from being confused.

 

In another case I hid a stage of a multi in a tree. Little did I know there was a LB hidden at the base of the tree. Some cachers were finding the LB, assumed it was the final stage, and wondered why it was only two stages when my page said it was four. LBs usually come with a letter explaining what they are. Don't geocachers read?

 

Because of my experiences I wouldn't hide a geocache any closer than about 75 feet from a LB and if I know there is a LB in the area I will mention it on the cache page to help avoid confusion.

Edited October 26, 2013 by briansnat

[7rxc]

Many cachers don't read the CACHE page let alone anything else!

 

Doug 7rxc

[+mom2sage]

Please don't! I just found a letterbox stamp (hand carved) in a geocache as swag. It had gone missing in 2010, likely due to a geocacher finding a letterbox and being confused. Luckily, I recently started letterboxing and knew what it was. With a bit of detective work, the stamp is being reunited with the carver .

[+ras_oscar]

I have found more than one cache within spitting distance of those "m" things, and was mildly annoyed. I assume the letterbox owner woulld feel the same way about a Geocache in the tree they used to conceal their container.

[+niraD]

I have found more than one cache within spitting distance of those "m" things, and was mildly annoyed. I assume the letterbox owner woulld feel the same way about a Geocache in the tree they used to conceal their container.

I think it's more of an issue with letterboxes than with those QR code games, simply because letterboxes (like geocaches) are containers. Thus, letterboxes are more likely to be confused with geocaches (and vice versa). And letterbox stamps are more likely to be confused with trade items, which is another real issue.

 

In contrast, those QR code games might cause new geocachers a bit of confusion, but there's no real harm done to containers or contents.

[+giddeanx]

Don't geocachers read?

I have found that people don't read unless they absolutely have to.

 

I am guilty myself. I was looking for a cache in a graveyard and found a box at the coordinates. It had some bling, a log book and a letter. I ignored the letter, assuming it was the standard "This is a Geocache letter", and went for the log. The log was kind of odd, more of a purple book really with very large non-lined pages. I just found a spot made my X, took off and logged the find on the app. Half an hour later it dawned on me why the log was so strange. When at home I flipped my find to a note and confessed to my crime.

 

Reading the logs and description would have definitely helped me, but, while on the hunt, I only tend to read those when I am stuck. Much like the way people treat technical manuals.

[+NeverSummer]

Don't geocachers read?

I have found that people don't read unless they absolutely have to.

 

I am guilty myself. I was looking for a cache in a graveyard and found a box at the coordinates. It had some bling, a log book and a letter. I ignored the letter, assuming it was the standard "This is a Geocache letter", and went for the log. The log was kind of odd, more of a purple book really with very large non-lined pages. I just found a spot made my X, took off and logged the find on the app. Half an hour later it dawned on me why the log was so strange. When at home I flipped my find to a note and confessed to my crime.

 

Reading the logs and description would have definitely helped me, but, while on the hunt, I only tend to read those when I am stuck. Much like the way people treat technical manuals.

I think the lack of reading is compounded by how the smartphone apps are laid out. One does not have to read anything to log a find. Whereas a description might give context to container and proximity, etc, I have even been tempted to just click on a nearby cache, and then click "Navigate" without reading anything about the cache.

 

I think that we will see even less finds on multis due to the cumbersome coordinate change process, and fewer finds on unknowns due to users who get into the game on the phone and don't frequent the actual website. Just reading some of the other threads on the forums where people say they won't or don't use an actual GPS speaks to the level of use of the website for cache information. Many are bypassing the website and using the app exclusively. If you started caching after the release of the apps, you are likely going to read full descriptions or learn the finer points of the game. JM2C

 

So, without reading descriptions, many will be oblivious to proximity issues or knowledge about letterboxes, GPS stashes from other websites, summit registers, and the like, which might be near an actual geocaching.com geocache.

[+edscott]

This reminds me.. I need to add another accidentally found Letterbox to my list. Rest area on I-95 Southbound just S of the Delaware River. Perhaps I find a few more because my GZ is often bit larger than average.

Edited October 28, 2013 by edscott

[+ras_oscar]

Smartphone use has little to do with not reading the caache page. I have a Garmin GPS and routinely download cache info for my entire home state. (7000+) I usually make a hit list to start from and occasionaly actually use it. More often than not I drive through the area and go to grab a hide as it passes by on the road. My gps only provides GC number, name, date last found, last 4 logs type, and hint. The cache page is not even seen by me until I'm crafting my logs. If I log a DNF, I will usually goe back and read through the previous logs and the cache page to see if I missed anything.

[+NeverSummer]

Smartphone use has little to do with not reading the caache page. I have a Garmin GPS and routinely download cache info for my entire home state. (7000+) I usually make a hit list to start from and occasionaly actually use it. More often than not I drive through the area and go to grab a hide as it passes by on the road. My gps only provides GC number, name, date last found, last 4 logs type, and hint. The cache page is not even seen by me until I'm crafting my logs. If I log a DNF, I will usually goe back and read through the previous logs and the cache page to see if I missed anything.

Yes, but.

 

The smartphone apps are laid out so that all you have to do is tap on a cache, tap navigate, and then tap "Found it" once you find it. If the user was introduced to the game simply by word of mouth and self-trained via tha app, then they aren't realizing the D/T ratings, the description, and previous logs all shed light on the cache hide.

 

If you don't read those things, you'll never know that there might be another container from some other game nearby. That's just another reason why it would be a good idea to find another location away from a found letterbox, or stash from another website.