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How long should I hold TB till previous holder lets it go


Wild-Skye

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Am a newbie - so apologies if my questions have been asked and answered before (I did do a search but didn't find an answer)

 

I decided to become a premium member - then did a search for trackables locally and went off to look for one. The one I searched for was no longer in the cache where it is still listed but I picked up 2 others. Both of these have been "in the hands of XXX" for several months. I emailed the owners and said I had them physically but couldn't log just yet.

 

Tomorrow I will be travelling 500 miles and would like to log these trackables along the way before I drop them off - but I can't just now cos they are not yet in my inventory.

 

How long is it reasonable to wait for someone to log them as "placed in cache" before I "grab" them.

 

Have to say both owners (outside UK) and both replied very quickly and seemed delighted to hear that their trackables were once more in circulation

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If you are pressed for time and have the trackables in-hand... you should log 'em as "Grabbed from...".

 

It would be nice if you were to also use the "Visit" log to show it (they) were in the cache from which you obtained them.

 

Then... go about your business. Mileage and tracking is correct by using that Visit log.

 

 

 

If not pressed for time, (we) email the holder and ask them to perform the drop. It happens sometimes that folks get busy and forget to do so. It is also possible that they placed them just moments before you retrieved them and have not yet had a chance to log such. The "Visit" takes care of that problem.

Edited by Gitchee-Gummee
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Contact the "in the hands of" cachers and ask if you can "grab" it from them so you can go on your journey tomorrow. If you don't hear back by the end of the day, do the grab - make sure you "visit" the trackables to the caches you retreived them from so the mileage is correct - and take them on the trip. Be sure to record the secret tracking numbers in a notebook somewhere just in case something goes haywire after you've dropped them in the next cache.

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thanks to you both for quick reply - I will email the "in the hands of" but looking at their record - I don't hope for a quick reply - seems they log in every couple of months - all caches bear same date even though miles apart - and they love carrying TBs for a long long long time

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I would hope that you would give someone a chance to log a TB into a cache, I have on a couple of occasions placed trackables in caches and by the time I have got home and another cacher has grabbed them from me; not a problem in itself. I just wish, as mentioned above, they would place them in the cache then move it on. It keeps the mileage right. If that is done I do not mind, but if they haven't I will often grab them back and place them where I place them.

 

Likewise I give people a few days to log trackables into a cache, if not I will grab and I always place them in the cache which I found them. Sadly then I have to struggle to find a cache large enough to place them in...

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The answer is that if you have to log them, then log them. That part's a no-brainer. Logging involves 2 steps: doing a "grab" so the system knows you have them, and then having them visit the cache where you found them, typically by editting your found log.

 

If you don't have to log them, the "how long" part is more subtle. My opinion is a little different than the other responders: while I don't say you have to rush out and log them as soon as you can, the fact is that the sooner you log them, the sooner everyone will know where they are. Remember, the supposition here is the reason you are facing this problem is because someone took too long to log them, so while you wait for them to log them, you may well be causing similar grief to someone else.

 

So to that end, I grab them when I log the find to the cache I found them in so I can have them visit that cache when I log the find. I might drag my feet to log that cache, but I don't log the cache without logging the TB at the same time.

 

It's not really a big deal that they won't get to log their drop, after all. They can just log a note if they have something interesting to say about the drop. If someone put a note in the TB log explaining that logs would be delayed and asking for the next finder to wait for a specific period, I'd try to comply (if the date hasn't already passed, of course...), but even then, once I drop the TB, I'll log everything because whatever might be lost is not as important as an accurate reflection of where it is now.

 

The absolute -- absolute -- worst thing you can do is forget you have the TB. In the end, that encourages me to play it safe and log it at the time rather than wait for delayed logs which may or may not ever come. Keep in mind that while you're delaying your logs, no one else has any idea where the TB is.

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A week is reasonable waiting time before grabbing. Or if the holder has logged the cache you found it in. If they had time to log the cache at that exact moment they could have dropped off the TB in the same motion. Else wait a week. If they moan - just dont bite and ignore them. It used to be two weeks grace. But these days thats a bit ridiculous. And it was back in the day when you could cache all day and only get 10 caches due to the lack of them about. Some still hold onto the old thinking though.

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How long is it reasonable to wait for someone to log them as "placed in cache" before I "grab" them.

I believe it is gross rudeness to "grab" from someone else unless you are sure they aren't going to log it themselves. For me that means emailing them and waiting 2 weeks for a reply or for the TB to be dropped. 2 weeks is a reasonable holiday duration and is no time at all in the life of a TB.

 

Rgds, Andy

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How long is it reasonable to wait for someone to log them as "placed in cache" before I "grab" them.

I believe it is gross rudeness to "grab" from someone else unless you are sure they aren't going to log it themselves. For me that means emailing them and waiting 2 weeks for a reply or for the TB to be dropped. 2 weeks is a reasonable holiday duration and is no time at all in the life of a TB.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

... forgive our resident chamber maid you gets offended if the wind catches her skirts and she shows too much ankle. I think you have 1813 and 2013 mixed up there Andy. I say its 2013 YOU KNOW ... 2013 ANDY ..."Gross Rudeness" .. wtf are you on about.

 

... despite that advice the important thing is accurate location of the TB. As some seem to forget the TB is the property of the TB owner - no one else. They want to know where their TB is at all times and as soon as possible. Not with a devil may care attitude of that will do, when I get round to it.

 

We had an experience last year where we travelled from Cornwall to Essex. I picked up a TB and waited till we were back in Cornwall to log it. It was previously held by Elfin Safety. They had dropped it off in the cache. So we retrieved it from the cache the next day. However what we did not know at the time was Elfin Safety came from Cornwall. Not far from us. Had we grabbed it from them it would have lost all its mileage up to Essex and back. Around 500 miles. If it had been in a race or whatever, it would have lost that mileage. Which would have been a shame. Its movements would have been inaccurate. However if Elfin had lounged around with it and not bothered to log it into that cache until two weeks were up, it could have gone through about 5 pairs of hands and in fact all sorts of things could have happened.

 

Wait a week but as stated previously if you need to "grab it" do so. Its not their property to get uppity about. The only argument they can level at you is that you have lost it mileage. So dip it in the cache you have found it in after you have grabbed it and they have no argument to make.

 

Most people are good natured about it. We make a record of the tracking number so we can grab it back if we need to. But usually it is fine. The worst that can happen is they grab it back and think you "Grossly Rude" ... oh well lol. Grossly Rude ... ffs

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... despite that advice the important thing is accurate location of the TB.

You speak about them as if I were not the owner of trackables myself :lol: For me the more important thing is not a few days delay, but an accurate history of the movement, both as far as caches and cachers are concerned. I do NOT want people grabbing my trackables from others because they don't have the patience or respect to wait a few days for the other person to complete their part of the history.

 

Of course there are times when you do have to grab it, if the previous holder has lost interest, but try to do it properly first.

 

Rgds, Andy

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I believe it is gross rudeness to "grab" from someone else unless you are sure they aren't going to log it themselves.

Although I've heard this before, I really don't understand it. What's the big deal? You get around to logging the TB 2 weeks later, and someone already grabbed it and dipped it in the cache you left it in. You should be thanking them for logging it promptly for you. All that's missing is your comments about the drop -- I assume you were going to edit your drop log to add comments, since otherwise I have no idea why you're upset -- which you can supply by posting a note on the TB with the correct date. You can also mention why your log was delayed, and you can thank the person that found it. Worst case, you also wanted the TB to visit some other caches before you dropped it, and it won't be able to. Not the end of the world, I don't think, but if you have plans like that, you should post a note ahead of time to alert the person that finds the unlogged TB how long your logs will be delayed.

 

Had we grabbed it from them it would have lost all its mileage up to Essex and back. Around 500 miles.

This is one reason you should always have the TB visit the cache you found it in.

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Let's keep this a friendly discussion and refrain from personal attacks.

 

Regards

 

Paul

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Edited by geohatter
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The visit (took it to) log doesn't say anything about a trackable being in the cache or even near the cache. A drop log and a following retrieve log do.

I don't understand what you're saying. A visit does exactly the same thing as a drop followed by a retrieve.

 

No it does not.

 

I'm not quite sure that I understand Twentse Mug's comment either but I think they are making the point that anyone can "visit" a trackable (which is in their inventory) to a cache, even if they don't actually go to the cache, or go anywhere near it.

 

On the other hand, if you actually drop off a trackable into a cache and then it's retrieved from there by another cacher the owner can be (fairly) certain that it was there and it's still safely travelling.

 

MrsB

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The visit (took it to) log doesn't say anything about a trackable being in the cache or even near the cache. A drop log and a following retrieve log do.

I don't understand what you're saying. A visit does exactly the same thing as a drop followed by a retrieve.

 

No it does not.

 

I'm not quite sure that I understand Twentse Mug's comment either but I think they are making the point that anyone can "visit" a trackable (which is in their inventory) to a cache, even if they don't actually go to the cache, or go anywhere near it.

 

On the other hand, if you actually drop off a trackable into a cache and then it's retrieved from there by another cacher the owner can be (fairly) certain that it was there and it's still safely travelling.

 

MrsB

 

Exactly!

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I'm not quite sure that I understand Twentse Mug's comment either but I think they are making the point that anyone can "visit" a trackable (which is in their inventory) to a cache, even if they don't actually go to the cache, or go anywhere near it.

 

On the other hand, if you actually drop off a trackable into a cache and then it's retrieved from there by another cacher the owner can be (fairly) certain that it was there and it's still safely travelling.

 

MrsB

 

The key difference is that the TB is retrieved by a different cacher. There is no difference between Cacher A doing a drop log followed by a retrieve log and Cacher A doing a "visited" log. Cacher A can do either of these without actually having the TB or even visiting the cache if they like. Before the visit log, the combination of drop/retrieve was used to "dip" a TB much like the visit log.

 

If Cacher A physically drops the TB in a cache and Cacher B retrieves it, then yes you know it was there.

 

Of course Cacher A can do a drop log into a cache on the other side of the world, then give the TB to their friend Cacher B who does the retrieve log... and neither cacher or the TB visited the cache in question.

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Ok explain this then http://coord.info/TB2T8CX page 4 is where the weirdness occurred.

 

We went to cache number 4 in the series. Found the TB. Get home. Log it and ... no wait wtf ... It had been placed in the cache. But it had also been retrieved. By someone else. Obviously they had the tracking number written down or whatever. But - it wasn't in their posession on the TB page. On that it said it was in cache number 4. Right up until we retrieved it. When technically we should have had to grab it.

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Ok explain this then http://coord.info/TB2T8CX page 4 is where the weirdness occurred.

 

We went to cache number 4 in the series. Found the TB. Get home. Log it and ... no wait wtf ... It had been placed in the cache. But it had also been retrieved. By someone else. Obviously they had the tracking number written down or whatever. But - it wasn't in their posession on the TB page. On that it said it was in cache number 4. Right up until we retrieved it. When technically we should have had to grab it.

 

Nice example. All these 'took it to' logs don't say anything in whose posession the trackable is.

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Re travel bugs and geocoins, i usually wait about three weeks due to holidays,illness or work can delay logging travel bugs in and out, i am so very reluctant to "grab" as i think its possibly the rudest thing you can do in the caching community,i have got home on quite a few occaisions and had dropped a travel bug or geocoin in a cache only to find its been grabbed instantly but not put in another cache as its still in the hands of that cacher so it did not need to be actually grabbed instantly, at times you just have to grab it to then log it into the cache you dropped it in to keep the mileage and logging correct,then you get an e mail asking for the travel bug code so that they can then do the logging correctly as they did it so quick they did not even write down the travel bug number/code,when that happens you can feel a bit smug (:(: be patient folks and wait just a little bit,jeff=bones1.

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Ok explain this then http://coord.info/TB2T8CX page 4 is where the weirdness occurred.

 

We went to cache number 4 in the series. Found the TB. Get home. Log it and ... no wait wtf ... It had been placed in the cache. But it had also been retrieved. By someone else. Obviously they had the tracking number written down or whatever. But - it wasn't in their posession on the TB page. On that it said it was in cache number 4. Right up until we retrieved it. When technically we should have had to grab it.

 

Nice example. All these 'took it to' logs don't say anything in whose posession the trackable is.

 

I'm not sure that answers my question but I'm only on my first coffee. But in reply to you the "took it to" logs do say who's posession it's in. It's an automatic function when you log a cache - further down the page you can choose to visit any tbs in you're inventory. But they do have to be in your inventory to do so. So by default it's apparent who's possession they are in. It does also state "seaglass pirates took it to ..." Naming who took it. To take it and visit it, it has to be in someone's posession. And they are named.

 

But anyway - my question?? Still don't know how it can be picked up but still in cache. Days apart. If it was the same day fair enough - time lag blah blah. But days apart. Dunno. But it relates to page four where we pick it up.

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... It's an automatic function when you log a cache - further down the page you can choose to visit any tbs in you're inventory. But they do have to be in your inventory to do so. So by default it's apparent who's possession they are in. It does also state "seaglass pirates took it to ..." Naming who took it. To take it and visit it, it has to be in someone's posession. And they are named.

 

 

Hmmmmm...

 

It may appear to be in the possession of that cacher... But can you be sure it still is?

 

There have been a few cases reported where a cacher carrying multiple trackables around with them has dropped off several into a suitable cache. But (accidentally, presumably) they put e.g. 4 trackables into the cache but only selected the "dropped off" log option for 3 of them.

 

The end result is that they continue their caching travels, automatically visiting the remaining trackables to the caches as they find them, but one of those being 'visited' is, in fact, sitting in the cache where they dropped it off earlier although it appears to be still travelling with them.

 

A proper drop off log, followed by a 'retrieved from' by another cacher inspires more confidence that the trackable is still safely in play.

 

MrsB :)

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On the other hand, if you actually drop off a trackable into a cache and then it's retrieved from there by another cacher the owner can be (fairly) certain that it was there and it's still safely travelling.

Exactly!

OK, thanks, The Blorenges, for interpreting Twentse Mug's cryptic remarks. A drop followed by a retrieval by the same cacher is identical to a visit. Twentse Mug is pointing out that dropping a bug off tells you something else, and someone else logging a retrieval tells you even more. That's a point I often make myself. But a visit log with actual text describing the visit can also be comforting. It's mainly the empty visit logs that don't really tell us anything about the state of the TB.

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Ok explain this then http://coord.info/TB2T8CX page 4 is where the weirdness occurred.

 

We went to cache number 4 in the series. Found the TB. Get home. Log it and ... no wait wtf ... It had been placed in the cache. But it had also been retrieved. By someone else. Obviously they had the tracking number written down or whatever. But - it wasn't in their posession on the TB page. On that it said it was in cache number 4. Right up until we retrieved it. When technically we should have had to grab it.

ChrisD67 thought they grabbed the TB and did a retrieve. When they realized they hadn't actually taken the TB, they posted a note dropping the TB back in the cache, then deleted both the note and the drop log. At least, that's my guess.

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Ok explain this then http://coord.info/TB2T8CX page 4 is where the weirdness occurred.

 

We went to cache number 4 in the series. Found the TB. Get home. Log it and ... no wait wtf ... It had been placed in the cache. But it had also been retrieved. By someone else. Obviously they had the tracking number written down or whatever. But - it wasn't in their posession on the TB page. On that it said it was in cache number 4. Right up until we retrieved it. When technically we should have had to grab it.

ChrisD67 thought they grabbed the TB and did a retrieve. When they realized they hadn't actually taken the TB, they posted a note dropping the TB back in the cache, then deleted both the note and the drop log. At least, that's my guess.

 

That's brilliant and would explain it perfectly. As for what you wrote Bloranges that's funny you should say that. It's never happened to is before but it happened at the weekend. The TB was on our sofa after the weekend but it was also being visited in several caches in Helston. The reply to our email was hilarious. And apparently the admin staff have been fired.

 

Sadly although we are pretty reliable with TB's we did exactly the same thing two weeks ago. Merrily visiting a TB that we dropped off. Not a mistake as such but a log error. We connect to the net via a very naff dongle. No broadband yet. During the bad weather the signal fluctuated just as we logged a cache. Did all the visits as per the plan and then it failed to load complete page. This often happens and usually we hit back and reload page and log again and resubmit after reconnecting. What does not happen automatically is that all inventory instructions reset. You have to redo all visit buttons and drop off buttons. And we did not remember to drop off instead of visit. Two weeks later I happens to check our inventory and urghhhh there was a TB that shouldn't be there. We had to delete all it's visits and it took hours because by this point the gale was here. For a newbie I would imagine it would have been hell.

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... despite that advice the important thing is accurate location of the TB.

You speak about them as if I were not the owner of trackables myself :lol: For me the more important thing is not a few days delay, but an accurate history of the movement, both as far as caches and cachers are concerned. I do NOT want people grabbing my trackables from others because they don't have the patience or respect to wait a few days for the other person to complete their part of the history.

 

Of course there are times when you do have to grab it, if the previous holder has lost interest, but try to do it properly first.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

I'd rather do things "properly" letting people log what they did with a trackable themselves. It just doesn't work out very well if one or more people are on holiday or otherwise unable to get online to log what they have done.

 

The trouble is, with the best will in the world, if I pick up a bug and can't log it for some unknown amount of time because the person who dropped it off hasn't logged it, the chances of me forgetting to log it at all rise. Even putting it on a watchlist doesn't necessarily help because even that assumes the person who dropped it off knows that they are supposed to log it (and not all do).

 

For myself I figure I'll either give someone a day or two to log it and then grab it, check it into the cache where I found it, then retrieve it. If I'm ready to place it before then (which is rare these days but may happen if I grab a TB along a long drive) then I'll grab it so its location can stay up to date. Otherwise all that happens is the site thinks the bug is in one place when it's really in another, and the chances of someone just grabbing it and losing the history of where it had been rises.

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OK – so I started this thread – a newbie so I bow to your better knowledge.

 

Anyone who can follow my description of events described deserves a geocoin medal :rolleyes:

 

I live in an area where 4g is an unknown quantity and 3 g is heard of but we don't know where it is.

 

Nevertheless even people on holiday can access internet somewhere and if you find a way to log your find you can also log a trackable.

 

(Please read above again.... I cannot undertsand how people can log a cache and not be able to log a trackable... am I missing something?)

 

Anyway ----Newbies/numpties ask stupid questions so pls be patient with me. I may be asking silly questions or making stupid comments but pls bear in mind a) I am an old fogie B) I live in a technologically challenged area.

 

The story goes as follows.....

 

I picked up (physically) a couple of trackables on the Isle of Skye (where I live)

Trackable 1

 

The geocacher (let’s call him/her” ABC”) who dropped it off on Isle of Skye cache on 20th October 2013 had had it since April 2013 (visiting various caches throughout Europe along the way)

The trackable was logged as “Placed” on 20th October in a cache on Isle of Skye.

I was moving 450 miles south soon so I grabbed them from NW Scotland on 23 October and visited a few geocaches on my way south.

I “placed” one in NW England on 25 October.

“DEF” retrieved it from NW England cache on 26 October and moved it on.

“GHI” picked it up on 4 November

5 November person from whom I had grabbed it in NW scotland ,(i.e. geocacher ABC) grabbed it back and logged it on Isle of Skye in cache I had originally grabbed it from on 23 October (so almost 500 miles from where the trackable was physically.)

So now trackable is showing as being on Isle of Skye but physically must be in the hand so f “GHI” somewhere in north of England (have emailed trackable owner in the hope they can sort it out)

The story for the other trackable I picked up at the same time is very similar but in that case the trackable owner – responded to my emails and adjusted the log so that– the trackable is showing where it really is.

 

I would add the the person from whom I grabbed the cache cannot claim to be a newbie idiot like me - this geocacher has 2351 caches discovered, 170 trackables moved/discovered.

 

What can I say? If geocachers logging thousands of finds can't use common sense what hope is there for newbie?

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I'm afraid this is what happens when people grab caches before giving the previous cacher time to drop it off. I certainly wouldn't have grabbed it so quickly after picking it up. If that meant it wasn't moved for a few more days, so be it. People don't expect their TB to move every day.

 

No, I normally can't log my cache finds when I'm on holiday, so I can't log trackables either. I do it as soon as I get home.

 

Rgds, Andy

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I'm afraid this is what happens when people grab caches before giving the previous cacher time to drop it off. I certainly wouldn't have grabbed it so quickly after picking it up. If that meant it wasn't moved for a few more days, so be it. People don't expect their TB to move every day.

 

No, I normally can't log my cache finds when I'm on holiday, so I can't log trackables either. I do it as soon as I get home.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

From my understanding it seems the problem was that the person who dropped off the TB and didn't log it until later then tried to correct everything by grabbing it so they could mark where they dropped it off, even though by then it had moved at least once.

 

I don't expect TBs to move every day but sometimes it can be picked up and dropped off within a day. I remember driving 600 miles from Pennsylvania to South Carolina in a day, picking up a bug in West Virginia along the way, dropping it in SC and being back in PA within a few days. If I'd had to wait for the person to log it into the WV cache before I could log it into SC all that would happen is that the buffer of unlogged movements would grow ever longer. Sure, I could have simply not dropped it in SC and taken it back to PA with me but then it creates a potential conflict with the bug's mission.

 

If people can't log their finds for a few days it's entirely possible that a bug they dropped but didn't log yet has moved at least once, so I'd say when logging several days after the fact it's worth being aware that things you expected to be in your inventory may have been grabbed by someone else. It really doesn't seem like such a big deal to grab a bug from the person holding it, dip it into the cache where you picked it up (to keep the journey and distance intact), then drop it off whenever you're ready.

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I'm afraid this is what happens when people grab caches before giving the previous cacher time to drop it off.

That had nothing to do with it. This is what happens when a cacher that's been delayed in making a drop gets all bent out of shape about it and tries to overrule the people that have already picked up and moved the traveler he dropped long before.

 

From the sounds of it, the OP made the mistake of forgetting to have the traveler visit the cache he found it in. That gave the original dropper a dumb reason to try and "fix" it, but not an excuse to screw it up.

 

No, I normally can't log my cache finds when I'm on holiday, so I can't log trackables either. I do it as soon as I get home.

No problem, everyone understands. But we have to log the traveler's movements in the meantime, so expect and accept that when you get home, it may already have been grabbed so someone can sort out the problems caused by your delay.

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Something I don't understand is why GS has different process flows for drop and retrieve.

When you log a cache you get automatically your inventory where you can choose items on the list to drop in the cache. The travel bug is in the cache only after the log. In my opinion this is very good.

I would expect a similar process the other way around. When logging a cache, there is ALWAYS an additional list with the inventory of the cache. Then choose from "grab from the cache", "saw it in the cache but left it there" and "did not see it in the cache". That would give much more information about the whereabouts of the travel bug. This instead of a difficult and hidden menu option that we have now. The process flow of the travelbug would much more be connected to that of the caches. It also gives insight if a travelbug is gone but that is because of the cacher before in the logbook in the cache but who did not have the time yet to log it on the website. And that is the topic of this thread. Then you know you have to wait or not.

 

The retrieve option is redundant anyway as far as I'm concerned. Retrieve from a cache and grab from cache (not from a cacher!) is the same.

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... But we have to log the traveler's movements in the meantime ...

Well, the whole point is, no you don't. You can just wait a few days before dropping it off.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

You can, but what when the traveller's goal is something you can help it with but only today? I've found numerous bugs that want to visit all 50 states so I'd say the aim of helping it with the goal and dropping it in a different state trumps leaving unknown delays before logging.

 

For me it's fairly rare to pick up and drop off a bug within a short time, but if I end up doing that I will just grab it and check it through the cache where I found it.

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... But we have to log the traveler's movements in the meantime ...

Well, the whole point is, no you don't. You can just wait a few days before dropping it off.

My point is that since there's no damage done (other than a fabricated "insult"), there's no good reason not to move the TB along normally rather than delaying its movements because the person that dropped it has delayed logging it.

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... But we have to log the traveler's movements in the meantime ...

Well, the whole point is, no you don't. You can just wait a few days before dropping it off.

My point is that since there's no damage done (other than a fabricated "insult"), there's no good reason not to move the TB along normally rather than delaying its movements because the person that dropped it has delayed logging it.

 

Am I missing something ... do you have some authority I am not aware of Amberel. It appears you are telling other how to geocache?

 

"You can just wait a few days before dropping it off"

 

Erm no you are incorrect. There is no such rule. Unless stipulated by the owner of the property which you are not. If this is what you are happy to have happen, this statement and opinion can only be applied to your property. That rule is obvious.

 

a) You cannot stipulate what must or must not be done with other peoples property.

B) You cannot dictate to others how they must geocache.

c) Should they do anything you are not happy with regarding TB's, unless it is your property, you will just have to lump it.

 

My advice is enjoy the game and get your monies worth by all means, but never dictate.

 

Unless of course as I said ... you have some authority I am not aware of? Its quite apparent you never think you are wrong. Trust me ... you are wrong about this.

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... But we have to log the traveler's movements in the meantime ...

Well, the whole point is, no you don't. You can just wait a few days before dropping it off.

My point is that since there's no damage done (other than a fabricated "insult"), there's no good reason not to move the TB along normally rather than delaying its movements because the person that dropped it has delayed logging it.

 

Am I missing something ... do you have some authority I am not aware of Amberel. It appears you are telling other how to geocache?

 

"You can just wait a few days before dropping it off"

 

Erm no you are incorrect. There is no such rule. Unless stipulated by the owner of the property which you are not. If this is what you are happy to have happen, this statement and opinion can only be applied to your property. That rule is obvious.

 

a) You cannot stipulate what must or must not be done with other peoples property.

B) You cannot dictate to others how they must geocache.

c) Should they do anything you are not happy with regarding TB's, unless it is your property, you will just have to lump it.

 

My advice is enjoy the game and get your monies worth by all means, but never dictate.

 

Unless of course as I said ... you have some authority I am not aware of? Its quite apparent you never think you are wrong. Trust me ... you are wrong about this.

 

I'm not a moderator here but let's not make this personal.

 

Amberel's suggestion is that keeping the bug for a few days is a valid course of action. I agree that it is a valid course of action, I just disagree that it is necessarily the best course of action. I don't see Amberel telling people what has to be done, merely expressing his opinion (which, after all, is what a forum like this is there for)

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I think you are attempting to put a personal slant on my comment. It is not personal at all. It is directed at Amberel but then it would be as it was in reply to his post. Inevitable really as in order to reply I have to direct the comment at who I mean.

 

By personal you imply insulting or in breach of the rules in some way. I am stating my opinion of his comments and I am relating them in context with his posts. That is not personal it is an observation based on his comments and in the context he has made them.

 

It is the essence of debate. Unlike Amberels comments which apparently deny debate and imply some form of authority which devalues others points of views experiences and knowledge. So I would be very careful to not assume a tone or context to my comments please!

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I think you are attempting to put a personal slant on my comment. It is not personal at all. It is directed at Amberel but then it would be as it was in reply to his post. Inevitable really as in order to reply I have to direct the comment at who I mean.

 

By personal you imply insulting or in breach of the rules in some way. I am stating my opinion of his comments and I am relating them in context with his posts. That is not personal it is an observation based on his comments and in the context he has made them.

 

It is the essence of debate. Unlike Amberels comments which apparently deny debate and imply some form of authority which devalues others points of views experiences and knowledge. So I would be very careful to not assume a tone or context to my comments please!

 

No more than you're reading an attempt to tell others how to do things into Amberel's post, where what I see is another forum user (who I happen to disagree with on this issue) expressing his opinion.

 

How does making the point that people can "just wait a few days before dropping it off" imply "some authority (you are) not aware of", "deny debate and imply some form of authority" or appear as if he is "telling other how to geocache"?. Waiting a few days before dropping off a TB is a perfectly valid course of action to take. It's not one I believe is universally the best way of geocaching (which is where I disagree with Amberel) but it's pointless to deny that it's a perfectly valid thing to do.

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For me, my preference is to wait and have the holder drop the TB. Especially if the holder is a newbie, grabbing it can cause some confusion.

 

However, if I have some urgency in moving the TB along, I'll grab it sooner. E.g. TB wants to go to Germany, and I'm going there tomorrow. I'd rather grab it and show the TB actually is now in Germany then leave it showing with the holder.

 

On the other hand, if I know I'm not going to be caching for a week, there is no need for me to grab it now; I can wait to let the holder drop it.

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No more than you're reading an attempt to tell others how to do things into Amberel's post, where what I see is another forum user (who I happen to disagree with on this issue) expressing his opinion.

 

 

No no no. Now look you mean no more than I am accusing him of dictating to others. Lets be frank. Not attacking at all I understand that you are not doing that but frank and clear. I am not attacking the man, I am challenging the statements. And I mean statements which speak of the way things should be done. An opinion is a point of view. A suggestion of how to do things from a personal perspective. However opinions are stated in a certain way. This is indignation that things should be done in any other way than the way claimed. That is not an opinion.

 

Why do I care or why should any others. Because newbies attend this forum as a way to learn. If this is the teaching, that this is the way things MUST be done ... pffff well fine. As long as it is adhering to the rules laid down by Groundspeak (authority). But these statements do not. They are personal and emphatic standpoints. Alienating to a new comer. All edicts and no friendly suggestions at all. For example and taking the whole thread in its entirety because you MUST as readers will follow the whole thread ...

 

 

I believe it is gross rudeness to "grab" from someone else unless you are sure they aren't going to log it themselves.

 

So if we do it any other way this is gross rudeness ... a bit strong to say the least.

 

I do NOT want people grabbing my trackables from others because they don't have the patience or respect to wait a few days for the other person to complete their part of the history.

 

An emphatic statement claiming those that do it any other way are 'impatient and lack respect'. This is not implied by me, the words are there before you. And they are unyielding and unfriendly.

 

... But we have to log the traveler's movements in the meantime ...

Well, the whole point is, no you don't. You can just wait a few days before dropping it off.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Of course its movements have to be logged. As soon as possible is the obvious lesson we must pass on to newbies or anyone wishing to learn anything from this thread. Simply for the very reasons you have stated. Along with everyone else. Yet no amount of wording things differently or from a different perspective (debate) has changed the posters standpoint one iota. And thats great. Normally. Not giving way to peer pressure is I believe a good quality. But in this instance it is misleading and implies an authority that the poster does not have. You cannot state that this can or must be done. To do so would endanger an accurate log of its location. This is obvious, and obviously this is not the best practice. It is poor guidance.

 

Of course there are times when you do have to grab it, if the previous holder has lost interest, but try to do it properly first.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Well the proper way to do things is to respect that a TB is someone else's property. And accurate, prompt, logging of its location is the best way to protect that property. It is beholden upon us to do so. Our whimsy and personal opinions do not come into it.

 

Categorically unless a TB is our property we have no say what so ever. We cannot imply or assume a want or need on behalf of the TB owner or teach others to do so ... we must however follow the rules...

 

'When you take a Trackable from one cache and drop it into another, it is important to log the Trackable's movements.'

 

'When' we do it. Not, at some point in the future. When we take it. It is impracticable for many to do this the moment dog tag kisses off tupperware but when the cache is logged there is no excuse at all, to not log the TB at that time. None. Whether you use an iphone or PC. That would be following the rules. 'When'. And the reason we must follow and state the rules is simply because otherwise people have an 'opinion' and then others defend that opinion and pretty soon it stops being an opinion and somehow becomes a rite. And people defend their rites to death. But it is the rules ... and only the rules ... that count.

 

Not attacking the man - challenging the statements and how they can shape what people think they should do. No one can be wrong they can only be poorly informed.

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For me, my preference is to wait and have the holder drop the TB. Especially if the holder is a newbie, grabbing it can cause some confusion.

That's a very good point, but in my experience, if it's a newbie, the drop will never get logged. Besides, I'd say that actually figuring out how to log a drop is more confusing to a newbie that having the TB disappear behind his back. Worst case, the newbie will be incredibly confused but won't be in a position to do anything wrong because the other cacher already took care of doing it right for him.

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ah but pls don't generalise about newbies- I am a newbie - having only been geocaching since August - but I am trying to do things right and this is why I have asked the questions -believe me it is not easy as there are so many differing opinions.

 

It seems to me having followed the thread that smartphone use causes some problems (users feel they can log quickly but there is combination of lack of mobile reception and limitations of apps when it comes to trackables). Perhaps also some longer standing geocachers haven't realised how technology has changed with smart phone use so think they will wait till they get back from their month long tour of Europe before logging (that seems to be what I am seeing)

 

I think I have devised my own code - the wishes of the trackable owner are paramount - not the wishes of the person who picked it up and feels like taking it to visit X caches, ad infinitum before eventually dropping it off physically but logging it weeks later.

 

Having read the threads and given due consideration to all your experience and knowledge, I have decided that in future, I will grab the trackable - maybe give it a while to see if previous holder logs it - perhaps contact trackable owner to explain situation - then if I am going somewhere distant - I will make sure it has been noted in cache where I picked it up and then I will move it on. But this doesn't stop what happened to me with 3 trackables - that the person who had dropped off without logging within a reasonable time - grabbed it back and *** up the log - making TBs appear about 500 miles north of where they physically were(same person for all 3)

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Twice in last few months I have physically picked up a trackable from a cache it's not been listed in.

 

In both cases I immediately wrote a note on the trackable's page saying "I have this trackable. It's not listed as being in the cache I took it from, so I'll allow a bit of time for the last cacher to "drop" it correctly before I "grab" it", or words to that effect.

 

That way the owner knows its safe, and I've bought a bit of time before logging.

 

In both cases I did unfortunately need to "grab" it, so I then dropped and retrieved from the actual cache I'd taken it from to correct the milage.

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Twice in last few months I have physically picked up a trackable from a cache it's not been listed in.

 

In both cases I immediately wrote a note on the trackable's page saying "I have this trackable. It's not listed as being in the cache I took it from, so I'll allow a bit of time for the last cacher to "drop" it correctly before I "grab" it", or words to that effect.

 

That way the owner knows its safe, and I've bought a bit of time before logging.

 

In both cases I did unfortunately need to "grab" it, so I then dropped and retrieved from the actual cache I'd taken it from to correct the milage.

 

Very good idea!

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