Stealth?

[+ArtieD]

You've no doubt seen the attribute or read it in a cache description...stealth required. I know many people don't even like to go after such caches, but many do, including myself. I have heard of the "using the GPSr as a cell phone" trick and the timeless "tying your shoes while looking" move, all the way to people who get orange vests and even hard hats for urban hides that request stealth.

 

As for me, I believe the best stealth of all is to go for the cache like a boss...go in like you own the place. Think about it...what would look more sketchy, a person milling about trying to look occupied or someone who looks like they are there for a purpose and has a job to do? When I do the latter, no one ever pays me any mind and I can go in and back out with no one even caring.

 

What I want to know is, how do you approach such a cache? What's the way you most employ for those "out in the open" caches?

[+Mudfrog]

You've no doubt seen the attribute or read it in a cache description...stealth required. I know many people don't even like to go after such caches, but many do, including myself. I have heard of the "using the GPSr as a cell phone" trick and the timeless "tying your shoes while looking" move, all the way to people who get orange vests and even hard hats for urban hides that request stealth.

 

As for me, I believe the best stealth of all is to go for the cache like a boss...go in like you own the place. Think about it...what would look more sketchy, a person milling about trying to look occupied or someone who looks like they are there for a purpose and has a job to do? When I do the latter, no one ever pays me any mind and I can go in and back out with no one even caring.

 

What I want to know is, how do you approach such a cache? What's the way you most employ for those "out in the open" caches?

 

You said it! Go in like you belong there and know what you're doing. You're definitely more noticeable when you hesitate and/or keep looking over your shoulder.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

For those pesky LPCs, when I do them, I take a page from a fellow cacher. I go in there and make as much noise as possible as I lift the skirt.

[+Dogmeat*]

I go in like I'm supposed to be there, and it's all good. There was one where I couldn't. It was magnetized to look like part of the bench, and you wouldn't even notice it unless you look for it. It's at a bus stop and a heavily used one. I spotted it, sat down, and chatted with the elderly lady next to me or a bit. I slipped it into my lap while talking to her, signed it, slipped it back and asked her for directions to a cache close by that was also a stealthy one. I didn't know where the street was, which is why I required directions.

[+WarNinjas]

Got stopped by the cops again today. We need to work on our stealth! we did a big trail with a bunch of people yesterday and no one cared. People would just walk by and look at us strangely.

[+Traditional Bill]

Stealth is overrated. When somebody puts a cache out in the view of prying eyes, they can't possibly expect people not to be seen searching. That's why I also use the "like a boss" method. Although, I try to avoid the particular type of cache, I come across them every now and then.

[+redsox_mark]

I too will use the "boss" method, but also I will retreat if I feel "at risk".

 

Example yesterday - cache hidden in a wall boundary of a house Accessible from the pavement/sidewalk, but was hard to find and required poking around in the wall near their gate. We saw several neighbours looking at us suspiciously.

 

In a public situation where you have complete right to be there it is different; near a private house I run away at the first sight of being watched.

[+St.Matthew]

It's true. Simply act as if you belong there, and few will question you.

[+dprovan]

Stealth is overrated. When somebody puts a cache out in the view of prying eyes, they can't possibly expect people not to be seen searching.

It's clear to me that many CO's do, in fact, expect people not to be seen on such caches. I often suspect it's because they hide the cache during off hours and don't appreciate just how ridiculously impossible stealth is during the day, although another factor is that it doesn't occur to them how much more obvious it is to look for a cache than it is to hide one. But I still agree with your conclusion: it's not my problem that it's impossible to find the cache without being observed, whether the CO appreciates the danger or not.

 

No one would mistake me for a boss, but I do approach it as if I'm doing nothing remotely unusual. Nothing draws more attention to you than trying to be "stealthy". About the only thing I do special is make a casual inspection to see if I can find the cache visually in order to plan an unobtrusive grab, but if that fails, I just do a normal search. Once in a while, if the muggle traffic seems unusual, I'll skip it, wait, or come back later.

[+dprovan]

For those pesky LPCs, when I do them, I take a page from a fellow cacher. I go in there and make as much noise as possible as I lift the skirt.

I thought you were joking, but after I thought about it, this is probably pretty effective: make people think the point is to make the screeching noise in order to cover up that there's something hidden under there. Interesting idea.

[+BCandMsKitty]

For those pesky LPCs, when I do them, I take a page from a fellow cacher. I go in there and make as much noise as possible as I lift the skirt.

I thought you were joking, but after I thought about it, this is probably pretty effective: make people think the point is to make the screeching noise in order to cover up that there's something hidden under there. Interesting idea.

 

I think it's a good way of getting rid of a few "pesky LPCs"

[+briansnat]

I wear this, but without the gun

 

[+Paul G0TLG]

I worked in London for six years so I've done a LOT of "Needs Stealth" caches!

 

Before I get anywhere near the cache, I read the description carefully, decrypt the clue and scan the last few logs for any further help.

 

Then on approaching GZ I look around to see if what I've found out points me at anywhere obvious, and check as unobtrusively as possible without attracting attention - for example if I think the cache is hidden behind a notice board I read the notices while running one hand up and down the edge of the board. If I think it's behind an electrical junction box, I rest my smartphone on top of the box and study the screen, glancing down behind the box while pretending to stretch or scratch my head or whatever.

 

One technique that I've found works well is to walk up and down arguing with someone on the phone (there doesn't really have to be anyone on the other end!). It's a normal thing to see in London so no-one takes any notice, and you can walk past the same spot several times without attracting attention. If I think the cache is at low level I put my backpack down and rummage in it for my diary - while still yellng at the person on the phone - and if I think it's high up I look to the sky in exasperation.

 

I guess it's just adopting a camouflage suitable for the environment, just like the yellow jacket and hard hat people. I did once do an urban cache wearing a yellow jacket with "Health and Safety" on the back - it worked OK, but I carry my cellphone a lot more than I carry and H&S jacket!

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

For those pesky LPCs, when I do them, I take a page from a fellow cacher. I go in there and make as much noise as possible as I lift the skirt.

I thought you were joking, but after I thought about it, this is probably pretty effective: make people think the point is to make the screeching noise in order to cover up that there's something hidden under there. Interesting idea.

 

I think it's a good way of getting rid of a few "pesky LPCs"

 

As far as know, all of the caches in question are still there!

[+BAMBOOZLE]

One of my favorite quotes ( don't remember who wrote it ) :

 

" If the description says STEALTH required it means don't look for this cache ".

 

We pretty much follow that advice.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

One of my favorite quotes ( don't remember who wrote it ) :

 

" If the description says STEALTH required it means don't look for this cache ".

 

We pretty much follow that advice.

 

"Stealth Required" also usually means permission was not requested/granted.

[+desmognathus]

Deleted

Edited October 15, 2013 by desmognathus

[+ras_oscar]

I abandoned stealth quite some time ago. In this day and age of increasing awareness of terrorism, looking stealthy or sneaky draws more attention. When I arrive at GZ, I do a go-no go from the geomobile. If I am uncomfortable for any reason, I move on to another cache. Once I have decided to go, nothing will stop me. On several occasions a pedestrian turned the corner as I was opening the geomobile door. I always have a mental answer to the question "what are you doing", although I can count on one hand the number of times I have needed to use it. Having that answer in my mind allows me to walk to the cache like I belong there.

[+dprovan]

" If the description says STEALTH required it means don't look for this cache ".

"Stealth" tells me that the CO knows it's going to be prone to muggling, so I don't have to worry about how many people see me looking for it.

[+me N u]

Run a pocket query for caches with "stealth required" attribute then add those caches to our ignore list - simple!

[+edscott]

Agree with the number of people that have basically said look like you belong there and few will question it. I sometimes carry a clipboard and "take notes" after searching each spot.

[SwanFire]

I usually cache with my husband and sometimes our daughter joins us. I've tried caching alone, but just about every cache in my suburban area "needs stealth"...and I'm just not comfortable poking around on my own. When we're all together as a family, we just talk amongst ourselves as if we're looking for something (which we are!)

[SwanFire]

Agree with the number of people that have basically said look like you belong there and few will question it. I sometimes carry a clipboard and "take notes" after searching each spot.

 

I'm lucky I can remember my pen and GPS! I drop those two things enough...I can't imagine adding a clipboard to the mix. However, it greatly appeals to my childhood fantasy of being a private detective doing surveillance, so I just might give it a try.

[4wheelin_fool]

You don't need to use stealth. Just look for it like normal. Just don't remove it or rehide it if anyone is watching. Theoretically you could be inspecting something, or looking for lots of other things which don't have any value like those pricey film cans.

[+JohnnyVegas]

You've no doubt seen the attribute or read it in a cache description...stealth required. I know many people don't even like to go after such caches, but many do, including myself. I have heard of the "using the GPSr as a cell phone" trick and the timeless "tying your shoes while looking" move, all the way to people who get orange vests and even hard hats for urban hides that request stealth.

 

As for me, I believe the best stealth of all is to go for the cache like a boss...go in like you own the place. Think about it...what would look more sketchy, a person milling about trying to look occupied or someone who looks like they are there for a purpose and has a job to do? When I do the latter, no one ever pays me any mind and I can go in and back out with no one even caring.

 

What I want to know is, how do you approach such a cache? What's the way you most employ for those "out in the open" caches?

I used all kinds of things to be stealthy in past years, now I just look for the cache and ignore people around me. I wonder when I am looking for a cache in which the CO has place a Nano in an area full of people and then includes "use stealth" but offer no hint! Well if a CO wants me to use stealth there better be a hint so that I can find the cache and get out without being spotted.

Edited October 16, 2013 by JohnnyVegas

[+bflentje]

I have found that the more stealthy I try to be the more suspicious I look. So, I just go in like I own the place. I don't care who is watching either. I figure if someone sees me and steals the cache, that's the cost of doing business of hiding it under the skirt.

[GrandPotentate]

I keep a bullhorn with me just to be able to announce my presence whenever I search for a cache.

[+J Grouchy]

Run a pocket query for caches with "stealth required" attribute then add those caches to our ignore list - simple!

 

Well, that pretty much eliminates 95% of caches within 20 miles of downtown Atlanta.

Seriously...stealth is pretty much a requirement for any cache not within the tree line of the woods. Where there are people, assume people can see you and act accordingly.

[+littlegemsy]

I wear a full black ninja suit, include some nice rolls, half hiding behind things.

 

It doesn't stop people seeing you, but they'll think you're crazy and keep the hell away

Edited October 16, 2013 by littlegemsy

[+Don_J]

I have found that the more stealthy I try to be the more suspicious I look. So, I just go in like I own the place. I don't care who is watching either. I figure if someone sees me and steals the cache, that's the cost of doing business of hiding it under the skirt.

 

It seems like the person replacing the cache is usually the one that gets questioned by the police and accused of creating the bomb scare. I think I would rather use some discretion. It's not just the threat of the cache getting muggled, which really doesn't concern me if it's a stupid hide, but about how I personally am perceived by those that are observing me. I'm pretty sure that they don't believe that the local lamp post cover inspector wears shorts, flip flops and a floppy hat. They just see me putting something under the cover and leaving.

 

It seems that I have found 748 caches, or 12% of my finds, with the Stealth Required attribute. I don't ever recall actually being stealthy. For urban caches, I drive up and I either feel comfortable going for it, or not.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I have found that the more stealthy I try to be the more suspicious I look. So, I just go in like I own the place. I don't care who is watching either. I figure if someone sees me and steals the cache, that's the cost of doing business of hiding it under the skirt.

 

It seems like the person replacing the cache is usually the one that gets questioned by the police and accused of creating the bomb scare. I think I would rather use some discretion. It's not just the threat of the cache getting muggled, which really doesn't concern me if it's a stupid hide, but about how I personally am perceived by those that are observing me. I'm pretty sure that they don't believe that the local lamp post cover inspector wears shorts, flip flops and a floppy hat. They just see me putting something under the cover and leaving.

 

It seems that I have found 748 caches, or 12% of my finds, with the Stealth Required attribute. I don't ever recall actually being stealthy. For urban caches, I drive up and I either feel comfortable going for it, or not.

there are two types of hides that I will not do 1) any cache in Ivy they just are not worth the effort. 2) Any cache on or within 20 feet of playground equipment, just not worth the stares being a single male cacher,m these are just stupid hides.

[+Oxford Stone]

Interesting read!

No skirts to lift in the UK (not on lamp-posts at least) - but yes I do know what they are after a brief trip to Vegas where I fit caching into the other suspicious activities.

London - yes, need for stealth on two in particular, at Oxford and Cambridge circuses. Being brisk, quick and businesslike when possible is always good.

The times I've been seen and had to give an explanation: 1. "Are you trapping dormice?", 2. "Are you doing a wildlife survey?" (yes they were both rural) - next time I'll say Yes. Bearin gin mind wildlife is everywhere, it's a great excuse even in a city (looking for bat / rat / beetle habitats...) Oh and 3. OS Junior and I emerging hand-in-han from a hedge, me sweaty. Look of horror on the dog-walker's face, thought she'd uncovered a perverts' ring I think. So I showed her the cache, luckily OSJ had a TB too.

I don't quite understand ignoring all stealth required caches - it's part of the fun as far as I'm concerned. But as always, each to his own. 5 of my 8 are urban and stealth almost goes without saying - can't remember how many times I've used the icon though. And you could be 5 miles from the nearest road and attracting attention to a cache which then gets trashed because the next walking group are morons.

So - what is "stealth required"?

[+Scootercop]

I usually approach the cache from the East so that I may easily surprise it...just kidding. I approach and act as if I am supposed to be there. I have only been questioned twice and both times I had to explain what geocaching was. I would hate to tell some story and have that person later find out I wasn't honest, which in my opinion would give geocaching a bad name. Since I always have my iphone with me it is no trouble for me to show them the 2 minute video from the website.

[+DragonsWest]

I slink around like I'm a spy, glance furtively all over the place and when I think the coast is clear, I saunture up to GZ and start searching for it like a prospector looking for a gold nugget. Mumbling may be heard, along with an occasional discouraging word. Something about losing my middle vision and nanos.

[+geodarts]

A short time ago there was an article in the local police blotter about officers being called to investigate someone wearing an orange vest who was acting suspiciously around an electrical box. I might have suspected it was a cacher - although we do not have any caches with that type of hide- but it turned out to be a utility worker. I should have known that if it was a cacher they would have cordoned the area off with yellow tape and put a sign up indicating that a cache search was in progress.

 

A while back there was a cache placed in a flagpole stand in the middle of landscaping with benches surrounding it that are generally occupied. As someone told me after I retrieved the container, people look strange when you don't know what they are doing. So my basic approach is not to make myself look any stranger than I am and explain what I am doing if asked.

[DannyCaffeine]

I have found a good method for caches in alleyways and parking lots. Take one of those little ikea pencils and hold it like you are out for a smoke and playing with your "phone" while walking around (Be calm you want to seem like you are bored, not pacing and paranoid. Think chill and relaxed) Wait till you know pretty much where the cache is and when no ones looking make the grab! If you get caught "I dropped my lighter" is a good excuse

 

Of course this only works for lpc's/benches/fence ends.

Edited October 18, 2013 by DannyCaffeine

[+Card Shark78]

For me it depends on the type of stealth required one of my favorites is: I have a Hard Hat, Florescent vest and clipboard in case I'm going for a LPC or urban cache where the outfit looks like I'm checking or performing maintenance on the cache.

[+lamoracke]

It depends on the cache on how much I use stealth. For instance, if its a cache off a walking trail and I can easily wait out a couple of walkers, I will do so. However, if one walks by after, I am not going to try and hide like I am a bandit or something.

 

As far as lamp posts go in a parking lot, maybe I might not approach if someone is standing right there (or I might, who knows), but if you put a cache in a lamp post in a parking lot, you cannot reasonably expect cachers to not be noticed. I do it quick like I belong and if someone notices me, I act like I belong. The more you wait out, you look suspicious even more I think.

[+wmpastor]

I wear this, but without the gun

 

That's just what I need! Do they sell them online?

 

Oh, & I'm sure the "gun" would be okay in an "open carry" state.

Edited October 26, 2013 by wmpastor

[+wmpastor]

The stealthiest stealth is no stealth at all.

 

 

You may quote me, but please mention the source.

[+Heli Leo]

I wear this, but without the gun

 

That's just what I need! Do they sell them online?

 

Oh, & I'm sure the "gun" would be okay in an "open carry" state.

 

Ghilliesuits.com

[+Chief301]

I skipped several caches yesterday because they were lame parking lot micros, in the middle of business hours, and the description said "Lots of muggles here, stealth required". Also the CO started his description with "Nothing special about this one" or words to that effect. Really dude? You put out a lame, boring, uninspired cache in a meaningless location and actually admit in the description that you know it's lame but here it is anyway. Really sells the product, eh? Pretty easy to skip the lame ones if the owner lets me know in advance that it's lame. 😏

 

Maybe In addition to the "Stealth Required" attribute Groundspeak can add a "Lame Cache" attribute to make it easier for the CO to let everyone know not to waste their time.....

Edited October 27, 2013 by Chief301

[+dprovan]

I skipped several caches yesterday because they were lame parking lot micros, in the middle of business hours, and the description said "Lots of muggles here, stealth required". Also the CO started his description with "Nothing special about this one" or words to that effect. Really dude? You put out a lame, boring, uninspired cache in a meaningless location and actually admit in the description that you know it's lame but here it is anyway. Really sells the product, eh? Pretty easy to skip the lame ones if the owner lets me know in advance that it's lame. 😏

 

Maybe In addition to the "Stealth Required" attribute Groundspeak can add a "Lame Cache" attribute to make it easier for the CO to let everyone know not to waste their time.....

Not that I think you're being serious, but "lame" is your personal opinion. We can't expect the CO to think his cache is lame even as he agrees it's trivial and not offering any value beyond signing the log. Besides, you've decoded the situation fine, so you don't need the additional attribute.

 

Personally, my first priority is the walk I'm on, so the fact that a cache is a simple find in a superstore parking lot doesn't concern me. Furthermore, since it is a simple, mindless hide with obvious dangers, I'm not that worried that I might compromise it. Typically I read "stealth required" as meaning that stealth is impossible, so don't worry about it. Of course that's not always the case, but if there's a light pole at GZ, it's a lock.

[+Don_J]

I skipped several caches yesterday because they were lame parking lot micros, in the middle of business hours, and the description said "Lots of muggles here, stealth required". Also the CO started his description with "Nothing special about this one" or words to that effect. Really dude? You put out a lame, boring, uninspired cache in a meaningless location and actually admit in the description that you know it's lame but here it is anyway. Really sells the product, eh? Pretty easy to skip the lame ones if the owner lets me know in advance that it's lame.

 

Maybe In addition to the "Stealth Required" attribute Groundspeak can add a "Lame Cache" attribute to make it easier for the CO to let everyone know not to waste their time.....

 

Seriously, there are so many cachers in my area now that have no perspective on caching except numbers, that a simple attribute with "1,2,3" on it to signify, "Numbers cache", would actually work.

 

This is what I see in new cache descriptions:

 

• 
   
  
• There was no cache within .1mi, so I fixed the problem.
  
• It took me awhile to figure it out, but I managed to place eight new caches in this shopping mall parking lot. Smile for the security cameras.
  
• I had to get a haircut and there was no cache in the lot, so I fixed that.
  
• There was an accident on the main road so I had to come this way for a detour. I was surprised that there were no caches so I added 20.
  
• I was looking at the map and there was a big hole here, so I added ten new caches, (the guy lives 30 miles away and doesn't maintain the ones in his own neighborhood)
  

 

I agree that one of the reasons for hiding a cache is so it can be found, but more and more often, I'm finding that this is the only reason that the cache is hidden. In your parking lot example, since the owner is admitting this, why not put it in a quieter part of the lot so people can find it with attracting attention.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Don_J

[+tozainamboku]

Seriously, there are so many cachers in my area now that have no perspective on caching except numbers, that a simple attribute with "1,2,3" on it to signify, "Numbers cache", would actually work.

 

This is what I see in new cache descriptions:

 

• 
   
  
• There was no cache within .1mi, so I fixed the problem.
  
• It took me awhile to figure it out, but I managed to place eight new caches in this shopping mall parking lot. Smile for the security cameras.
  
• I had to get a haircut and there was no cache in the lot, so I fixed that.
  
• There was an accident on the main road so I had to come this way for a detour. I was surprised that there were no caches so I added 20.
  
• I was looking at the map and there was a big hole here, so I added ten new caches, (the guy lives 30 miles away and doesn't maintain the ones in his own neighborhood)
  

 

I agree that one of the reasons for hiding a cache is so it can be found, but more and more often, I'm finding that this is the only reason that the cache is hidden. In your parking lot example, since the owner is admitting this, why not put it in a quieter part of the lot so people can find it with attracting attention.

It doesn't bother me that people hide these sorts of caches in urban locations with stealth required. I don't have a desire to find all of these caches and when I do this kind of caching I don't mind skipping one if I'm uncomfortable, or limiting the time I'll search otherwise . These caches are there for when I want a quick grab and are igored otherwise.

 

What has bothered me is the cachers in the area who place hiking caches for the same reason. Some of the trails in our area are now saturated with pill bottles under rock piles every .1mi. And the idea is that these caches can be replaced with throwdowns when they go missing. Caches that I hid years ago to bring cachers to a neat place or get them to explore a new trail, rarely get the kind of logs I use to get thanking me for taking them to a new place, because now it is just one of 20 or 30 caches on the trail. Nobody looks at the date of the hide and sees that this cache was one of the first in this park or on that trail. At most they complain that container is old and needs to be replaced. (As if I should be happy to have them replace the ammo can with a pill bottle or altoids tin).

Edited October 28, 2013 by tozainamboku

[+Traditional Bill]

I skipped several caches yesterday because they were lame parking lot micros, in the middle of business hours, and the description said "Lots of muggles here, stealth required". Also the CO started his description with "Nothing special about this one" or words to that effect. Really dude? You put out a lame, boring, uninspired cache in a meaningless location and actually admit in the description that you know it's lame but here it is anyway. Really sells the product, eh? Pretty easy to skip the lame ones if the owner lets me know in advance that it's lame. ��

 

Maybe In addition to the "Stealth Required" attribute Groundspeak can add a "Lame Cache" attribute to make it easier for the CO to let everyone know not to waste their time.....

 

Seriously, there are so many cachers in my area now that have no perspective on caching except numbers, that a simple attribute with "1,2,3" on it to signify, "Numbers cache", would actually work.

 

This is what I see in new cache descriptions:

 

• 
   
  
• There was no cache within .1mi, so I fixed the problem.
  
• It took me awhile to figure it out, but I managed to place eight new caches in this shopping mall parking lot. Smile for the security cameras.
  
• I had to get a haircut and there was no cache in the lot, so I fixed that.
  
• There was an accident on the main road so I had to come this way for a detour. I was surprised that there were no caches so I added 20.
  
• I was looking at the map and there was a big hole here, so I added ten new caches, (the guy lives 30 miles away and doesn't maintain the ones in his own neighborhood)
  

 

I agree that one of the reasons for hiding a cache is so it can be found, but more and more often, I'm finding that this is the only reason that the cache is hidden. In your parking lot example, since the owner is admitting this, why not put it in a quieter part of the lot so people can find it with attracting attention.

 

I'm right there with you. This kind of stuff really irritates me. I think the biggest problem is that some brand new cachers will start out with this kind of stuff and avoid the quality because they like the idea of a quick find. Well, if it's the only type of cache they ever find, it's going to be the only type of cache they ever hide, unfortunately. There's a new guy in my area that's been caching for a month or two and it seems he has at least five caches getting published every week with the description stating "this parking lot was just screaming for a cache or two" and other non sense statements to that effect.

 

It's not just brand new cachers either. A guy in my area last year who has been caching for years put out a trail of lpcs down a stretch of highway. That's the stuff that sets bad examples for the new guys. But hey...those parking lots NEEDED caches, right?

[Clan Riffster]

How do I approach caches with "Stealth Required" in the listing?

For the most part, I don't. Places that generally breed these types of caches are, for the most part, inconsistent with my personal caching preferences. Though, I must admit, there have been a handful of high muggle traffic, (HMT), caches I really enjoyed. Typically, if my GPS brings me to a HMT, and I decide to attempt it rather than simply walking away, I'll adopt the aforementioned "Like A Boss" technique, under the theory that nothing draws attention like someone who is trying to avoid drawing attention.

[+joshuar9476]

I was trying to find a cache associated to a benchmark. The benchmark was in the center of a small, rural town along train tracks. Monday afternoon, not a soul in sight. Because they didn't want to cause suspicion near train tracks, they stuck the thing on the bottom of an ice machine at an always populated dollar general on the edge of said town. I managed to wait until everyone was from their cars and either gone or inside, started looking underneath, when an employee came out to sweep. There i was on my knees looking under an ice machine. She asks what I'm doing ... My response? "Looking for a geocache hidden under here somewhere." After explanation and such I actually had her looking for it too. She found it, we both signed it, she said it was fascinating, and i moved on. I need to log on and see if it's missing. Sorry folks, a ninja I am not. Hide it in a populated area, expect it to be gone.