German Cachers Cheating?

[+cache-matze]

And how would you know they are incorrect assumptions.

 

That's why i have asked the TO if he has tried to contact the cachers he has wrote of.

[+Huntleigh]

From that bit of information should I extrapolate that all Northern Californians are cheaters, or may have a propensity to cheat?

 

Only those of German descent.

 

Edit to indicate irony

Edited October 15, 2013 by Huntleigh

[+Ma & Pa]

I don't think anybody is saying all Germans are cheaters, or all cheaters are German, but they certainly have gained a reputation and it's not undeserved.

 

EH?

 

Well, of course the main reason we're talking about it is that's it's fun to bad mouth people that cheat.

 

Doesnt sound like fun

Edited October 15, 2013 by Ma & Pa

[+redsox_mark]

My experiences and observations:

 

1. There is "cheating" in geocaching in general. Depending of course on how one defines cheating. Maybe they found the caches but didn't sign the log (and thought that was OK), or maybe they didn't even find. who knows.

 

2. "Cheating" is not unique to German cachers.

 

3. As has been said, per capita, Germans are some of the most active cachers in the world.

 

4. There is a history of Germans logging armchair finds on Virtual caches. But I believe this was more from a misunderstanding on what "Virtual" caches meant then "cheating".

 

5. I find the comments that perhaps German culture encourages dishonestly interesting. I work with a lot of Germans and spend a lot of time there, and I have never got this impression. Making cultural generalizations is always tricky, but I've seen other cultures who seem to be less honest (than my own), but I've not experienced this with Germans.

[+Glenn]

I see a couple of people in this thread defending German geocachers. Good for you and please keep it up. I know that all German geocachers aren't armchair caching. However, it only takes a small number of people to give a larger group of people a bad name.

 

My point of view isn't as a geocache player. My point of view is a geocache owner. My post isn't about cheating. It's about respecting my logging instructions and respecting my geocache. I own virtual cache that I placed over 10 years ago. Despite the fact that I have clearly written instructions on the cache page and geocachers for every other country have no problem reading and following the instructions, geocachers from one country in particular seem to have problems following the instructions. They will log the cache and never send me the information that I'm requesting. Now, I'm not stupid and I realized that after 10 years the information that I am asking for can be found online, or by making a phone call, or other means that are all considered cheating. But these geocachers are so lazy that they don't even do bother to do that. All they are doing is wasting my time and making maintain the geocache a chore.

 

I'm sorry if you are from Germany and take offense to what I have observed coming from your country. If you are German and take offense to this thread I suggest that you take the matter up with your fellow countrymen.

[+JohnnyVegas]

there is a cacher from Denmark that has been logging finds in the Sacramento area, the problem the cacher in question has not signed the logs in the caches that I own that he/she claims to have found. So I have been deleting the logs, all but one that is. I might get in trouble for mentioning the name but then if some wants to search finds in Sacramento for a log mentioning how much it was raining (on a date in which no rainfall was recorded) well that I can not help ;-)

Edited October 20, 2013 by JohnnyVegas

[+jellis]

And how would you know they are incorrect assumptions.

 

That's why i have asked the TO if he has tried to contact the cachers he has wrote of.

I wrote to one and couldn't understand most of what he was saying. One thing he said was he "got permission on that one" but I didn't tell him which one it was in question. It was how they could have got to a cache on an island on a one way trip downstream. You would need boat and a way to be dropped off and picked up. Plus that same trip was completed by some well known cachers who said for them to do that and it took them all day. It would be impossible for them to do that and be caching in two other locations, far from each other on the same day.

 

The other thing is and it's not the ones that made the USA trip. But recently one of mine and a friends geocoins that have been missing are just recently are being logged by Germans. One of mine that has been missing for about 6 years and was discovered in Germany. I asked the cacher if they saw the geocoin and where they saw it. NO ANSWER. No further discoveries

Another geocoin that I found that was MIA attached to another MIA geocoin (both missing for 3 years) and was returned by me to the owners was being recently discovered. I returned the coin two years ago and put it on my watchlist. When I saw the recent discoveries I asked the owner if he was on a trip or sent it back out. No he said it's still with him and it hasn't gone on any trip with him. So it looks like maybe someone is passing around numbers in Germany of coins that are missing (this coin is still marked as unknown).

[+jellis]

I see a couple of people in this thread defending German geocachers. Good for you and please keep it up. I know that all German geocachers aren't armchair caching. However, it only takes a small number of people to give a larger group of people a bad name.

 

My point of view isn't as a geocache player. My point of view is a geocache owner. My post isn't about cheating. It's about respecting my logging instructions and respecting my geocache. I own virtual cache that I placed over 10 years ago. Despite the fact that I have clearly written instructions on the cache page and geocachers for every other country have no problem reading and following the instructions, geocachers from one country in particular seem to have problems following the instructions. They will log the cache and never send me the information that I'm requesting. Now, I'm not stupid and I realized that after 10 years the information that I am asking for can be found online, or by making a phone call, or other means that are all considered cheating. But these geocachers are so lazy that they don't even do bother to do that. All they are doing is wasting my time and making maintain the geocache a chore.

 

I'm sorry if you are from Germany and take offense to what I have observed coming from your country. If you are German and take offense to this thread I suggest that you take the matter up with your fellow countrymen.

Yes I agree, the US cachers are not perfect either. I was told by a reliable source that some other well known cachers were photologging caches during the recent Mega Event in Nevada. Problem for being well known is they will be noticed more for cheating when you do it in great numbers. But many COs would be suspicious of "greetings from ******" logs on their caches that are missing or really difficult.

No it's not the No #1 cacher.

[+hzoi]

I'm flabbergasted at what otherwise upstanding, industrious, honorable people are thinking when they cheat at this game. I took a geocoin around the country for a friend; I groaned when it got a ride to Germany. A month later it went missing. Sad but true, we have become suspicious of German geocachers.

 

Funny, we've had the opposite experience. Many of the trackables we released in Germany are still going strong -- those that went missing did so when they were taken outside of Germany. Here in the US, the majority of the trackables we've released have gone missing within a month.

[+geodarts]

I'm flabbergasted at what otherwise upstanding, industrious, honorable people are thinking when they cheat at this game. I took a geocoin around the country for a friend; I groaned when it got a ride to Germany. A month later it went missing. Sad but true, we have become suspicious of German geocachers.

 

Funny, we've had the opposite experience. Many of the trackables we released in Germany are still going strong -- those that went missing did so when they were taken outside of Germany. Here in the US, the majority of the trackables we've released have gone missing within a month.

 

Thie "Greetings from Germany" phrase became famous because of the way that virtuals once were handled in that country, but as has been pointed out, this thread is built upon some interesting assumptions. The first post stated that cachers with 7000 finds don't pass up caches - I pass up more than I find and last year I spent several days around the ET highway without finding a single repetitive cache. Now should I become suspicious of German cachers because of geocoins? I stopped releasing geocoins because almost every single one went missing in the US. Most of the cachers who do not send me answers to my earthcaches are from the US - German visitors have done so. A case could be made about how I should be suspicious of cachers from the US.

 

It's possible that a group from Germany logged caches they did not find, but I have been aware that cachers from several countries (including the US) have been under similar suspicion. It happens. I have never taken a picture of a log book or went through logs to try to figure out how often it happens, but very occasionally when I have been relying on past logs in my search I notice that some of the online logs do not have corresponding signatures. These usually have been from the US.

Edited October 22, 2013 by geodarts

[+dprovan]

I'm flabbergasted at what otherwise upstanding, industrious, honorable people are thinking when they cheat at this game. I took a geocoin around the country for a friend; I groaned when it got a ride to Germany. A month later it went missing. Sad but true, we have become suspicious of German geocachers.

Funny, we've had the opposite experience. Many of the trackables we released in Germany are still going strong -- those that went missing did so when they were taken outside of Germany. Here in the US, the majority of the trackables we've released have gone missing within a month.

I agree that travelers in Germany seem remarkably safe in my experience. I've been unable to fault any TB handling within the country. My problem is that once a traveler gets into Germany, it never leaves. I wish they'd take TBs out of Germany as often as they take them into Germany. But at least they take good care of them and keep them moving, so I can't really get upset about it.

[cezanne]

I agree that travelers in Germany seem remarkably safe in my experience. I've been unable to fault any TB handling within the country. My problem is that once a traveler gets into Germany, it never leaves. I wish they'd take TBs out of Germany as often as they take them into Germany. .

 

This problem also arises in Austria. The reason is quite simple. Only a relatively small portion of geocachers is travelling more often to countries abroad than during their vacation.

Given the large number of cachers in Germany, it is quite likely that a trackable gets stuck.

In areas close to borders, a little more exchange takes place, but mainly on the local scale.

 

When I travel to another country, I try to take about the same number of trackables to the country and then I take back home, but this does not always work out and the back side of taking a trackable to my region is that while this might bring the trackable to a nice region where it never has been before, it incorporates a quite high risk that the trackable will get stuck locally.

 

If I took into account also such considerations, I guess I would end up to take no trackables with me any longer. There is too much to consider. As so many cachers do not take along trackables any longer, I still take them with me if I can move them along in a reasonable way and at least avoid that they get stuck in a single caches for months.

 

Cezanne

[+Don_J]

I'm flabbergasted at what otherwise upstanding, industrious, honorable people are thinking when they cheat at this game. I took a geocoin around the country for a friend; I groaned when it got a ride to Germany. A month later it went missing. Sad but true, we have become suspicious of German geocachers.

 

Funny, we've had the opposite experience. Many of the trackables we released in Germany are still going strong -- those that went missing did so when they were taken outside of Germany. Here in the US, the majority of the trackables we've released have gone missing within a month.

 

Thie "Greetings from Germany" phrase became famous because of the way that virtuals once were handled in that country, but as has been pointed out, this thread is built upon some interesting assumptions. The first post stated that cachers with 7000 finds don't pass up caches - I pass up more than I find and last year I spent several days around the ET highway without finding a single repetitive cache. Now should I become suspicious of German cachers because of geocoins? I stopped releasing geocoins because almost every single one went missing in the US. Most of the cachers who do not send me answers to my earthcaches are from the US - German visitors have done so. A case could be made about how I should be suspicious of cachers from the US.

 

It's possible that a group from Germany logged caches they did not find, but I have been aware that cachers from several countries (including the US) have been under similar suspicion. It happens. I have never taken a picture of a log book or went through logs to try to figure out how often it happens, but very occasionally when I have been relying on past logs in my search I notice that some of the online logs do not have corresponding signatures. These usually have been from the US.

 

A couple of points, A lot of people hit the ET HWY and only do the repetitive caches. They skip the normal caches because they take the normal amount of time to find them and that slows the cachers down.

 

I can tell several anecdotal stories about geocoins. For some reason, they all have Germans involved, including my friend's personal coin that has never left his house, never been logged and has never had it's tracking # shared. One German either sat there and typed numbers until one worked or got lucky with a simple typo, but once he had that numbers, almost 100 "Discovered" logs followed from cachers in Germany.

 

To be fair, I don't watch German geocaches so I really don't know if visiting Americans have a propensity to cheat while caching in Germany. All I know is that there are plenty of shenanigans played by Americans on American caches, so what would be any different when traveling abroad?

 

I found the velcro so I deserve a find and am logging this cache.

[+hzoi]

I agree that travelers in Germany seem remarkably safe in my experience. I've been unable to fault any TB handling within the country. My problem is that once a traveler gets into Germany, it never leaves. I wish they'd take TBs out of Germany as often as they take them into Germany. .

 

This problem also arises in Austria. The reason is quite simple. Only a relatively small portion of geocachers is travelling more often to countries abroad than during their vacation.

Given the large number of cachers in Germany, it is quite likely that a trackable gets stuck.

In areas close to borders, a little more exchange takes place, but mainly on the local scale.

I've seen this as well. When we lived in Wiesbaden, Hessen, I had more countries found in Europe than any of the German cachers I knew, and more German Bundeslaender (states) to boot. But then, I knew I would only be in Germany for a couple more years, and we had no children and no debt, so we made it a point to travel all over Europe while we could.

 

For that matter, I've seen the same thing in the US; since I only live places for a couple years at a time, I have more incentive to get out and see the surrounding area than people who have roots and can take their time.

[+frostengel]

Hello over the great seas from a German geocacher,

 

first of all let me apologize for probably bad English as it is not my native language.

 

As I first read this post I could not believe it. Are you -- mostly US citizens I think -- really going to blame THE Germans for cheating in logging geocaches and geocoins? Don't you (don't we all!?) have other problems that are much more important?

[Political content removed by moderator.]

So to everyone who wants to blame a whole folks of doing anything as some of them are black sheep, "Kehre erst einmal vor deiner eigenen Haustür." (*) as we say in Germany. [Political content removed by moderator.]

 

If geocaching betraying is the only problem WE Germans have than I am very glad.

 

Best wishes from GERMANY

Jochen

 

(*) "First sweep before your own door." would be a direct translation. Take care for your own problems before you blame others.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Keystone

[+Glenn]

Hello over the great seas from a German geocacher,

 

first of all let me apologize for probably bad English as it is not my native language.

 

As I first read this post I could not believe it. Are you -- mostly US citizens I think -- really going to blame THE Germans for cheating in logging geocaches and geocoins? Don't you (don't we all!?) have other problems that are much more important?

Of course there are bigger problems, but this forum is about Geocaching. It isn't about those other things. So you'll find that we talk mostly about Geocaching here.

 

[Political content removed by moderator.]

So to everyone who wants to blame a whole folks of doing anything as some of them are black sheep, "Kehre erst einmal vor deiner eigenen Haustür." (*) as we say in Germany. [Political content removed by moderator.]

 

If geocaching betraying is the only problem WE Germans have than I am very glad.

 

Best wishes from GERMANY

Jochen

We have a saying there America, perception is reality. All of the stories told here are anecdotal. In other words, they are based on our observations and not any hard statistics. However, these anecdotes say more than statistics ever will.

 

We have another saying here in America, actions speak louder than words. Statistics don't mean much when I am deleting yet another log from a German geocacher who refuses to follow directions.

 

Many geocachers have observed questionable and incorrect logging practices from a few German geocachers. Unfortunately, these few German geocachers become representative of the larger group.

 

As a wise man once said "It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad deed to lose it."

 

(*) "First sweep before your own door." would be a direct translation. Take care for your own problems before you blame others.

 

We have a similar saying here in America too. It is usually used by people who are trying to draw attention away from the issue being discussed instead discussing the issue.