German Cachers Cheating?

[+Shrektrician]

I found some cachers who are logging finds to caches they never visited. One of the cachers is "[bN]SeatPirate". They logged in finds for the ET highway (0987-E.T. - GC32AGR)and numerous other Power Runs in California and Nevada (HMD-0982 - GC46E30). It's suspicious because all they have done is Power Caches with no "in-betweens". No one with 7000+ finds passes up caches! I found a cache today (Sign It - GC4N5XX) they logged a find on but they did not sign the log! They did the same with another nearby cache, which I haven't found yet (Lincoln's Cabin - GC4D0F6). There's another cache with multiple finds and no find in over a year(Happy - GC2HCX9) that they magically found. Unless these guys magically warped from the ET Highway up to Stockton in the middle of a Power run, they are cheating! looks like they have logged over 4000 finds in a couple of weeks! Really?

[4wheelin_fool]

I wonder what Sigmund Freud would say about this. He was from Austria. Hmmm..

[+wimseyguy]

You're new around here aren't you? It's what we call a cultural difference. Yeah, that's it.

[+T.D.M.22]

There was a cacher who logged a notoriously hard puzzle. Only cache he logged on the province (Alberta, Canada) if someone does it for one cache, why not a couple hundred? And how do you know the didnt sign a cache that you didn't find? And then logging cages in multiple counties- not everyone logs caches in order. Not saying the found them all, but your reason that they couldn't have can all be explained.

[+jellis]

It's a big buzz here in California right now. The cachers are now in Arizona. Cachers here are finding no signatures on the logs. I know of one cacher who was confused when they logged finds on a cache that is missing. She thought they miss dated the logs, cause there were DNFs on it before them. She went to check her cache and it's missing. They put on 5 events and one event only 2 cachers showed and one logged twice they attended. Another they were a no show to their own event. And one they showed and no one else.

[+baer2006]

I'm not surprised . Cheating like this is all too common among German "cachers" whose only concern are numbers. Not only find count, but also things like number of visited countries, D/T ratings etc.. There was a recent MEGA event in Prague, where a fake logbooks of various caches were handed around. Guess where almost all cachers, who actually logged a "find" on these caches came from - Germany, of course, and not the Czech Republic, home of most of the MEGA attendees. If more owners would simply delete obvious fake logs, such behaviour might eventually stop.

 

Greetings from Germany

baer2006

[+Semper Questio]

I found some cachers who are logging finds to caches they never visited. One of the cachers is "[bN]SeatPirate". They logged in finds for the ET highway (0987-E.T. - GC32AGR)and numerous other Power Runs in California and Nevada (HMD-0982 - GC46E30). It's suspicious because all they have done is Power Caches with no "in-betweens". No one with 7000+ finds passes up caches! I found a cache today (Sign It - GC4N5XX) they logged a find on but they did not sign the log! They did the same with another nearby cache, which I haven't found yet (Lincoln's Cabin - GC4D0F6). There's another cache with multiple finds and no find in over a year(Happy - GC2HCX9) that they magically found. Unless these guys magically warped from the ET Highway up to Stockton in the middle of a Power run, they are cheating! looks like they have logged over 4000 finds in a couple of weeks! Really?

 

Is this post suspect? How could someone with almost 10,000 finds pass up a cache?

 

Luckily (fingers and toes crossed) we have not seen hardly any of this in my neck of the woods.

[+MartyBartfast]

... It's suspicious because all they have done is Power Caches with no "in-betweens". No one with 7000+ finds passes up caches!

... I found a cache today (Sign It - GC4N5XX) they logged a find on but they did not sign the log!

 

Playing devil's advocate here but I don't think that's particularly suspicious. If they had come over from Europe to hit some power trails for some big numbers then it wouldn't surprise me if they just planned their routes to hit the big trails and didn't bother slowing down to grab the odd "in-betweens".

 

As their logs reference Team BN, could they have signed as just BN or something rather than their individual names?

[4wheelin_fool]

Well, it's not cheating but rather being misleading or lying. They might also be total armchair cachers without any valid finds. Usually the person will log several high profile caches across the world on the same day, but this MO is a little more sneakier.

[+Don_J]

It's a big buzz here in California right now. The cachers are now in Arizona. Cachers here are finding no signatures on the logs. I know of one cacher who was confused when they logged finds on a cache that is missing. She thought they miss dated the logs, cause there were DNFs on it before them. She went to check her cache and it's missing. They put on 5 events and one event only 2 cachers showed and one logged twice they attended. Another they were a no show to their own event. And one they showed and no one else.

 

California is a big state. These cachers held an event in LA that had ten locals show up and so far I haven't heard of anyone complaining about fake logs from these guys.

[+Don_J]

... It's suspicious because all they have done is Power Caches with no "in-betweens". No one with 7000+ finds passes up caches!

... I found a cache today (Sign It - GC4N5XX) they logged a find on but they did not sign the log!

 

Playing devil's advocate here but I don't think that's particularly suspicious. If they had come over from Europe to hit some power trails for some big numbers then it wouldn't surprise me if they just planned their routes to hit the big trails and didn't bother slowing down to grab the odd "in-betweens".

 

As their logs reference Team BN, could they have signed as just BN or something rather than their individual names?

 

Yes, it's very common for power cachers to skip caches that will take longer to find, or set a specific time limit of how long they will search before moving to the next one. Even bouncing around a city grid, you don't get 100 in a day if you spend a half hour looking for a specific cache.

[+briansnat]

It's sad, but when one of my caches receives a "greetings from Germany log" my first instinct is to go out and check the logbook.

[+terratin]

It's sad, but when one of my caches receives a "greetings from Germany log" my first instinct is to go out and check the logbook.

 

I think I'm guilty of that as well, but the other way around. If several Germans log certain caches with very simple logs (nice place, TFTC) on vacation I often assume it's missing simply because we experienced that several times before Hey, I think I may write this: I'm German (but always log truthfully)

[+nanncyan]

It isn't only German cachers. We have some who go out to power trails with a group. Then they split up and all do a small section of the trail. They sign the logs with a made up group name but each individual claims the find under their own caching name. We have one cacher who claimed over 1200 finds in one day. I guess they need to feel superior to others even if they have to lie about their accomplishments. I don't know why they even bother to leave their homes. Since bogus numbers are their objective, they should just search around the world for caches with inactive CO's and log finds. They are logging finds on caches they have never been to so what's the difference? I tried to put out a new cache challenge where all one needed to do was to physically sign the log. It was rejected because it had an agenda. Groundspeak is not going to police these dishonest few, and I don't blame them. It is up to the individuals in their area to ostracize them. If they put out caches, put them on your ignore list. It they host an event, don't go. Put these offenders out of your caching life. Go on with your caching as though they don't exist. You will be much happier for it. Don't cache for the numbers but because it is after all "fun".

[+Ma & Pa]

............ It is up to the individuals in their area to ostracize them. If they put out caches, put them on your ignore list. It they host an event, don't go. Put these offenders out of your caching life. Go on with your caching as though they don't exist. You will be much happier for it. Don't cache for the numbers but because it is after all "fun".

 

Great idea. Figure out who you think is cheating and then do all the above and maybe tell all your friends so they can all do the same to these cheaters. And if you are wrong, it doesn't matter. As you say it is all in fun and you will be much happier for it.

 

My approach is to have fun and ignore all that and I also am much happier for it.

[+Mudfrog]

What's obvious to me is not obvious to others. What i mean, everything that concerns geocaching is easy for me to understand and make calls on.

 

I know what a cache find or no find is. I know what consecutive days mean. I know that i should only log travelbugs that i actually hold in my hand or see firsthand. I know that i need to physically be at ground zero before trying to claim find on a traditional cache. I know i need to get my name on the log while i'm at ground zero. I know that logging find on a tough cache (up a tree, in the water, on a mountain) requires me to actually make it to that cache, not just watch someone else do the work. The list goes on and seems so simple to me.

 

Yet, after all these years of caching, i realize that others see these things completely different. Logging temp caches at events, finding caches ahead of time and saving them as backups for consecutive day runs, leap frogging, etc,,, are acceptable practices for many people. In their minds, there is no cheating or lying going on.

 

I feel like some of this is what's going on with German and many other cachers. My mind doesn't make any sense out of it but i really think that many of the people doing it are perfectly ok with it. I say this because the ones who do it usually don't try to hide anything. For instance, i have a good friend doing consecutive days who admits they save caches for later use in case they can't make it out. My friend thinks it's fine and you know what, it's not hurting me one little bit...

[+Ma & Pa]

What's obvious to me is not obvious to others. What i mean, everything that concerns geocaching is easy for me to understand and make calls on.

 

I know what a cache find or no find is. I know what consecutive days mean. I know that i should only log travelbugs that i actually hold in my hand or see firsthand. I know that i need to physically be at ground zero before trying to claim find on a traditional cache. I know i need to get my name on the log while i'm at ground zero. I know that logging find on a tough cache (up a tree, in the water, on a mountain) requires me to actually make it to that cache, not just watch someone else do the work. The list goes on and seems so simple to me.

 

We pretty well cache this way except we do a lot of caching with friends and I have no problem if they sign the cache for me if I am there also.

 

 

Yet, after all these years of caching, i realize that others see these things completely different. Logging temp caches at events, finding caches ahead of time and saving them as backups for consecutive day runs, leap frogging, etc,,, are acceptable practices for many people. In their minds, there is no cheating or lying going on.

 

I feel like some of this is what's going on with German and many other cachers. My mind doesn't make any sense out of it but i really think that many of the people doing it are perfectly ok with it. I say this because the ones who do it usually don't try to hide anything. For instance, i have a good friend doing consecutive days who admits they save caches for later use in case they can't make it out. My friend thinks it's fine and you know what, it's not hurting me one little bit...

 

We also have good friends who do a bit of that and they don't keep it a secret. I would never move dates for a streak but if they do, it doesn't matter to me. They don't have the stories of the trouble I went through to continue my streak.

[+SirDonB]

I have found caches and not signed the physical log (either cuz I forgot a pen or the log is wet), but submitted a digital one... I usually make a note in the digilog on why i didn't sign the physical one. I make it a practice to sign the physical even if I have to go back. When I go back, sometimes I have a brain fart and sign with the date I was there and not when I found it, but I still found it. I would never, and I mean NEVER, sign a digilog if I didn't find the physical cache. If I submit a digilog without finding it, it is as a note or DNF log. Like some or many, I can not wrap my mind around cheating or logging caches that you didn't personally find. My son asked me to sign his name to a log on a cache that I know he already found with me before he got his profile, and I refused to sign for him. I explained to him that I don't mind revisiting caches I found already so he can find and log them himself, but I wont sign a log he is not there for at the time it is found. If I knew of people like this in my area, I would shun them for sure... when they would log a find on my cache, I would verify it on my monthly maintenance run and no name at the cache, digilog deleted.

 

But this is just me and how I choose to play the game. So let this be a warning, sign my physical log, or watch your digilog be deleted. If more were to do this, then cheating would be less likely. Not that people wouldn't try and eventually find inattentive owners, but at least those that care would make it harder for them.

[+tallglenn]

I'm flabbergasted at what otherwise upstanding, industrious, honorable people are thinking when they cheat at this game. I took a geocoin around the country for a friend; I groaned when it got a ride to Germany. A month later it went missing. Sad but true, we have become suspicious of German geocachers.

[+nanncyan]

............ It is up to the individuals in their area to ostracize them. If they put out caches, put them on your ignore list. It they host an event, don't go. Put these offenders out of your caching life. Go on with your caching as though they don't exist. You will be much happier for it. Don't cache for the numbers but because it is after all "fun".

 

Great idea. Figure out who you think is cheating and then do all the above and maybe tell all your friends so they can all do the same to these cheaters. And if you are wrong, it doesn't matter. As you say it is all in fun and you will be much happier for it.

 

My approach is to have fun and ignore all that and I also am much happier for it.

As others have posted, the cheaters are very open about their cheating. It is not a question of right or wrong. They openly admit what they are doing. By doing nothing you are validating their actions. You may feel it is okay to, as the saying goes, dance with the devil. Personally I will chose who I want to have fun with.

Edited October 9, 2013 by nanncyan

[+Mudfrog]

 

We pretty well cache this way except we do a lot of caching with friends and I have no problem if they sign the cache for me if I am there also.

 

I don't have any problem logging a find if someone else signs the log for our group. I'm good, as long as i am at ground zero when the cache is found. Now, if it's in a tree or something like that, then i feel i need to go up and sign the log myself. That's just me.

[+radioscout]

Do away with challenge caches and all the other statistics stuff and there will be no more reason for cheating.

[+Capt. Cheese]

I found some cachers who are logging finds to caches they never visited. One of the cachers is "[bN]SeatPirate". They logged in finds for the ET highway (0987-E.T. - GC32AGR)and numerous other Power Runs in California and Nevada (HMD-0982 - GC46E30). It's suspicious because all they have done is Power Caches with no "in-betweens". No one with 7000+ finds passes up caches! I found a cache today (Sign It - GC4N5XX) they logged a find on but they did not sign the log! They did the same with another nearby cache, which I haven't found yet (Lincoln's Cabin - GC4D0F6). There's another cache with multiple finds and no find in over a year(Happy - GC2HCX9) that they magically found. Unless these guys magically warped from the ET Highway up to Stockton in the middle of a Power run, they are cheating! looks like they have logged over 4000 finds in a couple of weeks! Really?

 

Ok, maybe I'm missing something. Why does it matter. Isn't geocaching about the experience. There is no way to win this game, you can only partake in it. They gain nothing by doing this, nor do you by worrying about it.

[+Bruder JaB]

I don't believe, that all german cacher cheating... thats nonsens... in Germany there are a lot of difference cacher like in USA also... there are statistic-cachers, familiy-cacher hardcore-cacher and so on... you could not say, all germans (or cachers of other countries) are bad.

I don't like preconception we have all the same hobbie and every one have other reasons why he play the game...

[+fizzymagic]

I don't believe, that all german cacher cheating... thats nonsens... in Germany there are a lot of difference cacher like in USA also... there are statistic-cachers, familiy-cacher hardcore-cacher and so on... you could not say, all germans (or cachers of other countries) are bad.

I don't like preconception we have all the same hobbie and every one have other reasons why he play the game...

 

In my experience, statistically Germans are far more likely to cheat than cachers from other countries. If you don't like that perception, perhaps you could try to do something about it.

 

My wife, who lived there for a few years, says that this behavior is considered very acceptable in German society, where "putting one over on the authorities" is viewed positively. It's not a moral weakness in the individuals so much as it is a cultural difference.

 

But the difference is real nonetheless.

[cezanne]

In my experience, statistically Germans are far more likely to cheat than cachers from other countries.

 

I'm not German, but I think that what you write is a bit daring.

I agree that it is more likely that a cacher from Germany is cheating than a cacher from the US or Canada,

but your statement is too general.

 

For example, I encountered also Austrians who logged the fake caches in Prague and really believed that they were handed the logbooks of real caches and there are many arm-chair logs for virtuals coming from cachers from Austria or also the Netherlands.

As virtuals are regarded, there has been an unfortunate historical development of virtuals in those countries since reviewer published virtuals which could only be logged in a arm-chair way and defended those caches. I still remember that I had heavy debates with Laogai, a German reviewer, and a Dutch reviewer in 2003 about the fact that I felt that those caches were no caches at all and they defended that they published the caches.

 

The German cachers attract more attention as there are so many of them.

 

My wife, who lived there for a few years, says that this behavior is considered very acceptable in German society, where "putting one over on the authorities" is viewed positively. It's not a moral weakness in the individuals so much as it is a cultural difference.

 

It's certainly true that e.g. cheating in schools and at university is treated completely differently in countries like Germany and Austria like say in the US or Canada. This cultural difference exists, but it is not true that this holds specifically for Germany. I could name several further countries with a similar situation, but those have much fewer cachers than Germany.

For example, there are hardly any cachers from Greece. So not much is known about their caching style and also mass phenomena cannot carry over there.

Did your wife only live in Germany? She might attribute some properties to Germany which are not Germany-specific. So be careful.

 

In a country with many cachers stupid behaviour gets spread quickly and easily. E.g. a few cachers log a challenge cache/virtual without having been there. The logs do not get deleted. The cachers themselves think everything is allright and their friends see the logs of their friends and do the same etc. That's also one of the reasons why I think that such logs should be deleted and an explanation sent along to the loggers. The fact that so many virtuals are not maintained any longer, is part of the problem. The same is true for powertrails. Too many hiders of powertrails do not care about the logs, the log sheets etc and even ask other caches to do the maintenance work. So a tempting situation for a certain group of cachers arises.

 

Cezanne

[Otto Normalcacher]

OK, so we Germans are the bad guys just looking for big numbers of finds.

But what puzzles me: WHERE are most of the Power Runs located? Power Runs that are just created to increase your number of finds - a goal that is totally contrary to the spirit of Geocaching?

Where are they? Hmm, in Germany? No ... In the US? Hmmm ....

[4wheelin_fool]

Geocaching is more popular in Germany than the US, and more than any other country. They have one third of the amount of geocaches that we do, but a much smaller land mass. They also rank 2nd in total number of geocaches. Anytime something gets that popular, there is usually a high percntage of miscreants.

[+Kalleson]

It's sad, but when one of my caches receives a "greetings from Germany log" my first instinct is to go out and check the logbook.

 

Well, i can't imagine that this is just a "German phenomenon"...

I am German and living close to the Dutch border. In our region we've experienced same things with Dutch geocachers. That's why i got the impression that it suffers the fact that Groundspeak creates more and more the impression that IT IS ALL ABOUT NUMBERS, by implementing challenge caches, statistics for cacher's profiles, giving souvenirs for "31 days of geocaching" etc....

 

That's what makes some more and more cachers forgetting about their real motivation to cache. They're just hunting for points, running from cache to cache, fast, faster,... and starting to cheat. I think that's not a matter of someones nationality, but for sure it's easier to cheat somewhere far away, where nobody knows you, than to log caches you have never found in areas where the other cachers know you. That's why you will often find German cachers cheating in the US, Dutch cachers cheating in Germany and so on.

 

It's sad, but true...

 

"greetings from Germany"

 

Kalleson

Edited October 11, 2013 by Kalleson

[cezanne]

Well, i can't imagine that this is just a "German phenomenon"...

 

It isn't and I have explained it before.

 

I am German and living close to the Dutch border. In our region we've experienced same things with Dutch geocachers. That's why i got the impression that it suffers the fact that Groundspeak creates more and more the impression that IT IS ALL ABOUT NUMBERS, by implementing challenge caches, statistics for cacher's profiles, giving souvenirs for "31 days of geocaching" etc....

 

There have been many arm-chair logs for virtuals already 10 years ago when it is was not all about numbers. Those logs typcially came mainly from Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and this happened mostly because in Germany and the Netherlands there have been reviewers who even published caches that could only be logged in an armchair manner. So many cachers thought that this ok and never understand what the virtual in virtual cache means. Similar things happened with challenge caches where some really believe that it suffices to e.g. have logged caches in 10 countries.

 

Using the Netherlands as example is bad because they have a similarly unfortunate geocaching history than Germany.

 

There is another incentive for cheating for some Europeans that has not been mentioned here. For example, some logged the block party without having been there to obtain the special icon which is only available in Seattle.

 

There has also been a lot of cheating associated with the 31 days of geocaching in August. Cachers want to obtain all souvenirs, icons etc and not for all of them the chances to get those are the same, but they want to belong to compete with others.

 

When I started geocaching, no one cared about icons and the like. It was just about geocaching itself, no there is such much more around and all this has been introduced by Groundspeak which are to blame as well.

 

Cezanne

[+Glenn]

There have been many arm-chair logs for virtuals already 10 years ago when it is was not all about numbers. Those logs typcially came mainly from Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and this happened mostly because in Germany and the Netherlands there have been reviewers who even published caches that could only be logged in an armchair manner. So many cachers thought that this ok and never understand what the virtual in virtual cache means. Similar things happened with challenge caches where some really believe that it suffices to e.g. have logged caches in 10 countries.

 

I have a virtual cache that I placed 11 years ago when I was living in Italy. It is a war memorial and to claim it as found all you have to do is email me one of the names from the memorial. Over all these year the only logs that I've to delete for not following the instructions had one thing in common. Their nationality. They were all German.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I can't understand why anyone would do this. It seems pointless. Everybody's going to know your numbers are fake.

 

I had 2 people log finds on one of my caches that seemed to be missing. I'm going to assume they got the dates wrong. If the cache is missing there's no way to verify they signed it, right?

Edited October 11, 2013 by The_Incredibles_

[cezanne]

There have been many arm-chair logs for virtuals already 10 years ago when it is was not all about numbers. Those logs typcially came mainly from Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and this happened mostly because in Germany and the Netherlands there have been reviewers who even published caches that could only be logged in an armchair manner. So many cachers thought that this ok and never understand what the virtual in virtual cache means. Similar things happened with challenge caches where some really believe that it suffices to e.g. have logged caches in 10 countries.

 

I have a virtual cache that I placed 11 years ago when I was living in Italy. It is a war memorial and to claim it as found all you have to do is email me one of the names from the memorial. Over all these year the only logs that I've to delete for not following the instructions had one thing in common. Their nationality. They were all German.

 

If they really were all German, it is a coincidence. I often came across such logs from fellow Austrians.

 

As I have mentioned before quite a number of virtuals existed in Germany (and in the Netherland as well, but there are much more cachers from Germany) that were armchair based - there was not even a place one could visit if one wanted. Reviewers from Groundspeak have published such caches and defended them. This made a lot of cachers believe that virtual caching means answering questions (regardless of how). I'm not going to defend armchair logs from whomever they come from, but I'd like to point out that gc.com is not completely unguilty in what happened.

 

Moreover, I need to mention that I have not come across major differennces with respect to geocaching ethics as Germany and Austria are concerned. I have been following the geocaching scene in both countries and dare to say that I know it better than most who write here.

 

Cezanne

Edited October 11, 2013 by cezanne

[+DerSchnelleLinus]

In case you find a fake log -> delete it.

In Germany, there are indeed cachers focusing highly on statistics (we are German, by the way).

Nevertheless, we don't know enough about other communities to judge the situation there...

But basically it is the same for everybody: in case you feel the need to log a cache without visiting it on-site - we really feel sorry for you!

 

Regards, GC-Team DerSchnelleLinus

[+Kenny.rtg]

Well, I have signed 425 Caches in the United States with 'TFTC and greetings from Germany' and you can be very sure that I have visited each cache site, found each of them and logged each of them by myself!

 

I have logged only approx 20 of the ET Highway - am I suspicious now? Well, I just had not the time to log more and to be honest - I felt bored!

 

So come on guys, it is not 'The Germans'! Geocaching is a big thing here as well and maybe the Germans are the biggest group of European tourists in the US!

 

If somebody is cheating, he is more or less cheating himself!

 

Greetings from Germany! ;-)

[+dprovan]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something. Why does it matter. Isn't geocaching about the experience. There is no way to win this game, you can only partake in it. They gain nothing by doing this, nor do you by worrying about it.

Well, of course the main reason we're talking about it is that's it's fun to bad mouth people that cheat. But if you want a practical reason, the false logs and their bogus claims can mislead honest cachers, for example making them think a cache is there when it isn't or a traveler is somewhere where it isn't.

 

Well, I have signed 425 Caches in the United States with 'TFTC and greetings from Germany' and you can be very sure that I have visited each cache site, found each of them and logged each of them by myself!

Oh, yeah, that reminds me: it also makes honest German cachers look bad when they haven't done anything wrong. This is probably the biggest reason to worry about it.

[4wheelin_fool]

[+bjmccacher]

I also only signed 40 or so on the et trail, why should that be so shocking!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

So come on guys, it is not 'The Germans'! Geocaching is a big thing here as well and maybe the Germans are the biggest group of European tourists in the US!

 

It's not just the US. It seems that no matter where I go, I see a lot of German tourists. Perhaps we see so many Greetings from Germany logs is because people from Germany tend to travel more than people from other countries. I've only met two other geocachers from Germany (while in Rome). We searched for, and DNFd, a cache together and had a nice chat for quite awhile before we went our separate ways. Coincidentally, I'll be doing a little geocaching in Germany next month.

 

 

[+briansnat]

It's sad, but when one of my caches receives a "greetings from Germany log" my first instinct is to go out and check the logbook.

 

Well, i can't imagine that this is just a "German phenomenon"...

I am German and living close to the Dutch border. In our region we've experienced same things with Dutch geocachers. That's why i got the impression that it suffers the fact that Groundspeak creates more and more the impression that IT IS ALL ABOUT NUMBERS, by implementing challenge caches, statistics for cacher's profiles, giving souvenirs for "31 days of geocaching" etc....

 

That's what makes some more and more cachers forgetting about their real motivation to cache. They're just hunting for points, running from cache to cache, fast, faster,... and starting to cheat. I think that's not a matter of someones nationality, but for sure it's easier to cheat somewhere far away, where nobody knows you, than to log caches you have never found in areas where the other cachers know you. That's why you will often find German cachers cheating in the US, Dutch cachers cheating in Germany and so on.

 

It's sad, but true...

 

"greetings from Germany"

 

Kalleson

 

This stuff was going on years before statistics, souvineers, 31 days of geocaching etc. I don't think anybody is saying all Germans are cheaters, or all cheaters are German, but they certainly have gained a reputation and it's not undeserved.

[+jellis]

It's a big buzz here in California right now. The cachers are now in Arizona. Cachers here are finding no signatures on the logs. I know of one cacher who was confused when they logged finds on a cache that is missing. She thought they miss dated the logs, cause there were DNFs on it before them. She went to check her cache and it's missing. They put on 5 events and one event only 2 cachers showed and one logged twice they attended. Another they were a no show to their own event. And one they showed and no one else.

 

California is a big state. These cachers held an event in LA that had ten locals show up and so far I haven't heard of anyone complaining about fake logs from these guys.

Maybe no one is checking the logsheets. Since some cachers believe "I will not delete logs cause they are only cheating themselves"

[+jellis]

It's sad, but when one of my caches receives a "greetings from Germany log" my first instinct is to go out and check the logbook.

+1

[+Hatzenbach]

My dear friends from the west side of the Atlantic Ocean, I actually feel a little offended if one says that Germans are cheaters or that it is seen as good (or at least ok) to cheat.

 

I have been living in Germany for nearly 38 years now (acutally I was born over here) and I know many people and many geocachers (even Germans) that would never cheat. Inlcuding myself. Although I must admit that I already might have logged a cache on the wrong date because I found it "by accident" and afterwards did not know the actual date of my find.

 

One of the most important things to say: The quota of idiots is nearly the same in each group of human people. And as the "group of human people" that are Germans and geocachers is quite large there obviously is a bit number of idiots in this group. Maybe you should just check your logbooks of each of your caches after a while (or a number of online logs) and verify if someone has cheated. Nevertheless if the loggers were from Germany, China, South Africa or Texas.

 

I've been to the US twice in my life (and I did not know about geocaching at that time) and I really liked it. And I liked most of the people I met. But nobody said "Ah, you are from cheater country!" when I introduced myself as a German. Please be so kind to keep up my positive view of Americans about "us". ;o)

[+cache-matze]

Hi,

 

I found some cachers who are logging finds to caches they never visited. One of the cachers is "[bN]SeatPirate".

 

Have you tried to contact the [bN] cachers and have you asked them, if they can explain that?

Maybe this should have been the first step, before posting the issue here...

 

They logged the GCF in Las Vegas yesterday, did someone see them there?

 

Greetings,

 

Matze

Edited October 14, 2013 by cache-matze

[cezanne]

This stuff was going on years before statistics, souvineers, 31 days of geocaching etc. I don't think anybody is saying all Germans are cheaters, or all cheaters are German, but they certainly have gained a reputation and it's not undeserved.

 

But what typically is not mentioned is that some reviewers played a role in this and took part into the development that started with virtual arm-chair caches.

Groundspeak could have stopped this very early on and told those reviewers not to publish such caches and not to log them themselves.

 

One should not forget that due to the fact that geocaching become popular in Germany later than in the US, there were only very few real virtual caches and most of them were designed to be solved in an armchair manner. So lots of cachers were exposed only to such virtuals at home and supposed that they are working in the same way everywhere.

 

Cezanne

[+jellis]

I was caching with friends yesterday in the Central Valley. We ran into 2 caches out of the way where these Germans claimed finds and we checked the logsheets front and back and there are no signatures on them by these cachers.

[+jellis]

Hi,

 

I found some cachers who are logging finds to caches they never visited. One of the cachers is "[bN]SeatPirate".

 

Have you tried to contact the [bN] cachers and have you asked them, if they can explain that?

Maybe this should have been the first step, before posting the issue here...

 

They logged the GCF in Las Vegas yesterday, did someone see them there?

 

Greetings,

 

Matze

Problem with Mega events many cheaters (besides Germans) can claim they went and the caches nearby because the logsheets get too full and too many to try. I heard that cachers can't get their logs deleted just because their names are not on the logbooks. My name is right on Block Party's board and it shows in a GC video from 2 years ago. But I am not claiming I was there because I wasn't. Someone put my name on the board as a joke.

[+Kalleson]

Am I the only one, who has recognized, how stupid the whole discussion is?

 

Everything is just based on (possibly incorrect) assumptions...

 

Single experiences are generalized...

 

Over.... and out.

[+jellis]

Am I the only one, who has recognized, how stupid the whole discussion is?

 

Everything is just based on (possibly incorrect) assumptions...

 

Single experiences are generalized...

 

Over.... and out.

And how would you know they are incorrect assumptions. I took photos of the logsheets of the two caches they claimed to have found. There are COs who who had checked their caches to see if they signed theirs.

[+Don_J]

Am I the only one, who has recognized, how stupid the whole discussion is?

 

Everything is just based on (possibly incorrect) assumptions...

 

Single experiences are generalized...

 

Over.... and out.

And how would you know they are incorrect assumptions. I took photos of the logsheets of the two caches they claimed to have found. There are COs who who had checked their caches to see if they signed theirs.

 

Well, if you have the evidence, I guess the next step would be to notify the District Attorney.

 

I've never had the desire to go out of my way to audit other cacher's log books. I did have one thing that kind of jumped out at me though. It was the time I hiked a five mile trail that had 24 caches on it. A group from Northern California had logged all of the caches a week earlier. I was surprised to see their sticker on only the trail head cache. The last log on the other 23 was that of the guy that hiked the trail a month earlier. From that bit of information should I extrapolate that all Northern Californians are cheaters, or may have a propensity to cheat?