Waymark Declined

[+dave-harris]

How do i appeal against a waymark that has been declined. I have one that has been declined because it did not contain all the "requiremnent" It has more than some that have recently been plublished. And the information could not be gathered from the internet, only by what i could find on my visit.

 

Failing that i will just leave Waymarking alltogether.

[+BruceS]

There really is not an appeal process. You can email the category leader of the category and ask him to take a look and he can tell you what may be lacking on your waymark.

[+dave-harris]

Thanks Bruce. Butv i did return the waymark for re-approval with note to the reviewer expaling. This was just instantly declined.

 

I took 2 hours gathering info for the waymark, only to be rejected. Make me think why did i bother.

 

I may just archive it and forget about it. This would be a pity as i really enjoy Waymarking, doing the research creating.

[+Torgut]

Dave... you are not the first and will not be the last to feel attracted by the concept of Waymarking only to feel that's impossible to deal with many of the "officials" around here. For the best and for the worst, this game has something of chaotic.

 

Perhaps the worst of the worst is the waste of time and effort. After, it's easy to say "I won't post anything to the idiots in this category". But meanwhile we already spent a bunch of time and effort gathering info and writing. There is no solution for this. Again, and for the 1000th time, after all, there are reasons why Waymarking is the huge failure it is.

[+fi67]

Most of the categories work quite well. There are some categories that have problems, but each of them is different.

 

A certain number of denials is normal and happen to any of us. You can always ignore a category when you cannot cope with the way it is managed. Leaving Waymarking completely because of a problem with a small number of exotic categories is an overreaction in my opinion. It's like saying: "I will never again travel abroad, not even to Canada, because I don't like the government of North Korea".

[+Torgut]

I don't know if it's overreaction, but I know it's perfectly normal. After all, what's normality? It's the behaviors of the majority. And I saw this happening over and over...

 

As to your example... again, perfectly normal one goes in his first trip abroad, he's assaulted, all his belongings taken and this and that. Man... how natural that fellow will never want to travel again.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Torgut

[+fi67]

You are right, it is natural. But it is subjective. The situation is not perfect; there are far more of those individual experiences than there should be. Still, it is not as bad that it would be justified to declate this as standard.

[+Weathervane]

I've had waymarks declined before and when I realized that I did not meet a specific requirement, I deleted my submission and moved on. All waymarks have requirements and category owners must be diligent to ensure that the waymarks submitted adhered to these requirements, as to do otherwise would lead to a chaotic mess. In my view, you did not waste your time. You appear to have spent some time outside, you researched and learned about a subject you may not have known before and you are now aware of the fact that some officers are quite exigent. I have found that certain officers are more flexible than others and will bend the rules so to speak to accommodate your waymark. Others will not and it is entirely their prerogative. I am not here to give advice, but I would take this as a learning experience and assess whether I will be in a position to gather all of the required information at the site of the waymark before setting foot outside. If you hesitate or you are quite sure that you won't, then move on to another category, as expecting an officer to approve an inappropriately documented waymark is risky and may lead to disappointment as it did in your case. Furthermore, you may be provided with more accurate feedback by the Waymarking community should you be prepared to share the issue(s) that led to your waymark being declined and the extent of the explanations you forwarded to the category owner. You have many great waymarks to your credit and one bad experience should not deter you from enjoying this rewarding activity. While we may not know how Waymarking will develop in the future and whether it will even survive, the photos you have taken and the information you have gathered are not lost and will be your property forever to be used as you see fit.

[+dave-harris]

Hey. There is some great feedback on this topic. My orignal post was regarding new category for me. I got there in the end after several declines. What got my goat is the criteria asked for several specifics. I supplied all the info i could find, and before i posted i looked at existing waymarks in the same category. One of these specifics was not even mentioned in several new waymarks. That annoyed me. Rules are rules and i would expect them to be applied uniformly, or as best that can be done.

 

Once my trouble had been finally put to rest and the waymark created, i have draughted out a new one, in the same category, this is now waiting approval. Its been 24 hours, but that is early days yet and i have high hopes.

 

I still have several waymarks to create following a productive walk on Sunday in an area that only had 1, and i am sure if i went beack there i could find many more.

 

Waymarking to me if fun, i enjoy going out there finding ones already in existence, but making new ones are something that i really enjoy, and digging out the history on the interweb can be rewarding. Waymarking (Like Caching and benchmarking) takes me to nice places and makes me "look" at the area, rather than just look. If you know what i mean.

 

I will continue to make and visit waymarks. After all i have had declines in the past which were quickly resolved, and i have had others go to a review before being accepted. It will not be the last time thats for sure.

 

Must go, i've a few red phone boxes, a drinking trough, a few cut bench marks and a Doomsday Mosaic to create. Thanks everyone

Edited October 2, 2013 by dave-harris

[+Bear and Ragged]

Rules are rules and I would expect them to be applied uniformly, or as best that can be done.

 

In caching, the reviewers are selected to do the job. So tend to be of a similar mindset.

 

In Waymarking I'm a leader in a category because I was an early joiner to the group, and suddenly got promoted to leader when the category leader stepped down.

 

The others in the group got 'promoted' in the same manner. I seem to be stricter than the others on submissions!

(And they seem to leave the 'problem' submissions for me to decline. (But I try to be helpful, and suggest what needs to be done to get an Approval)

 

Don't let a bad experience put you off!

Edited October 2, 2013 by Bear and Ragged

[+dave-harris]

Rules are rules and I would expect them to be applied uniformly, or as best that can be done.

 

In caching, the reviewers are selected to do the job. So tend to be of a similar mindset.

 

In Waymarking I'm a leader in a category because I was an early joiner to the group, and suddenly got promoted to leader when the category leader stepped down.

 

The others in the group got 'promoted' in the same manner. I seem to be stricter than the others on submissions!

(And they seem to leave the 'problem' submissions for me to decline. (But I try to be helpful, and suggest what needs to be done to get an Approval)

 

Don't let a bad experience put you off!

 

No not put me off. Just had ome WM approved, and writing up another as we speak

[+BruceS]

Each time I submit to a new category I expect I may get a decline because I invariably miss something. I just hope that I took enough of the right photos and everything else can be worked out if I work at it and the "object" really belongs in that category. Once I get a couple in a category I gain confidence that I know what is needed. I always have to check back on a category description if I haven't posted to it for while if I am submitting a new waymark. Now there are a few categories I think I have figured out but a few hundred waymarks in a category will do that.

[+silverquill]

Thanks for sticking with it, Dave! You've discovered the joy of Waymarking - and its frustrations. With over a thousand categories, each with its sometimes idiosyncratic requirements and thousands of reviewers of various temperaments, guiding a waymark through to final acceptance can be a challenge. We've all had waymarks declined. I've reviewed a few thousand waymarks since I've been around, and have to decline waymarks from time to time. I do try to be specific in my comments so that the waymarker knows what needs to be changed or added. Usually we work it out, no matter which end of the decline I happen to be on.

 

Your investment in creating good quality waymarks is worth it. This enriches us all. All I can say is, "Keep on visiting and posting waymarks!"

[+dave-harris]

Thanks for sticking with it, Dave! You've discovered the joy of Waymarking - and its frustrations. With over a thousand categories, each with its sometimes idiosyncratic requirements and thousands of reviewers of various temperaments, guiding a waymark through to final acceptance can be a challenge. We've all had waymarks declined. I've reviewed a few thousand waymarks since I've been around, and have to decline waymarks from time to time. I do try to be specific in my comments so that the waymarker knows what needs to be changed or added. Usually we work it out, no matter which end of the decline I happen to be on.

 

Your investment in creating good quality waymarks is worth it. This enriches us all. All I can say is, "Keep on visiting and posting waymarks!"

 

Silverquill. Many thanks for your vote of confirdence. With so many categories, all requiring different 'specifics', sometimne things do go amis, sometimes you forget to take a certain photo that is required, especially if its in a categoriry that is new to you, or you don't visit that often. Sometimes you forget to put specific notes down in your long description. This is all frustrating and makes thing harder than they could sometimes be.

 

The waymark in question is now live, but i still have a second in the same category that is still being voted on so i do not know if it will be accpeted. But it has not put me off Waymarking. I enjoy visiting waymarks, but i get more enjoyment in creating them and looking for any history / information required. I have made several since, and have a few more to visit / create (dependng if there on the system) after my walk today.

[+MountainWoods]

I wonder if the reviewers forget to click the View Waymark Gallery link when analyzing a waymark. I posted a waymark to a new category and it was declined because it was supposedly missing photos of an important feature of the category. There were two such photos with the submission, but they didn't show up in the 5 thumbnails on the main page. One would have to click the View Waymark Gallery link to see the other two photos I've submitted.

 

Considering just ignoring this category if the reviewers can't see!

[+Max and 99]

I wonder if the reviewers forget to click the View Waymark Gallery link when analyzing a waymark.

 

That's happened to me before, on more than one occasion. Even after telling the reviewer that the photos WERE there, it was declined again. Sometimes reviewers forget to click on the link to see the other pictures. My thought is.... if a reviewer is going to decline a waymark for missing a photo, they NEED to check the entire gallery FIRST.

[+dave-harris]

Well my second waymark has been approved after going to the category members for approval. Some of the replies were:

 

The basics of the reply were Your waymark was voted on by the category managers, here is the list of comments by the various members: Initial vote call comment: This really doesn't require a vote. - Then why put it to the vote?

 

I noticed that one of his submissions has been approved although still lacking the attribution. - Wrong. Please read the submission. It is there

 

I could go on. But i won't. I tried my best and all basic requiremnets were met, despite being told otherwise. If i am wrong i am happy to put things right. If i am right, and told i am wrong, i naturally get upset. I can see from other posts on this thread that reviewrs are 'missing' things.

 

We try to play fair. Please treat us fair. We are all human, humans make mistakes, it is what we are. If mistakes are made it is best to admit it, not hide it. We should all be geting on together, working as one team for the good of the game, not being trigger happy decliners. If all the basics are met, but something small is amiss, then approve it but ask for the little addition to be made. Its not rocket science.

 

Anyway. Rant over. Subject is now closed as far as i am concerned. I am away to carry on what i enjoy doing. That is Geocaching, Benchmarking and of course Waymarking

[+MountainWoods]

I've resubmitted my waymark, but just changing the note to the reviewers to state that they'll need to click the View Waymark Gallery to see all of the photos that they require. We'll see what happens. (If it doesn't work, then the group really doesn't care much about adding things to the category, so I won't bother.)

[+BruceS]

I've resubmitted my waymark, but just changing the note to the reviewers to state that they'll need to click the View Waymark Gallery to see all of the photos that they require. We'll see what happens. (If it doesn't work, then the group really doesn't care much about adding things to the category, so I won't bother.)

 

That will teach you from being an over achiever and uploading all those photos and hiding the important ones in the gallery. I know one Waymarker who uploads a lot of photos with their Waymarks and they always have a comment in the private notes "XX photos uploaded" or something to that effect.

[+MountainWoods]

You know Bruce, I was thinking about that on the way home. From now on if I upload more than 5 photos I'm going to change my usual reviewer note from "Thank you for reviewing this waymark." to "Thank you for reviewing this waymark. Please use the View Waymark Gallery link to see all photos submitted."

Or some such.

[+MountainWoods]

Well the comment about looking through the gallery did it. Although it turns out that the officers wanted one of the other photos as the main photo but the detailed category description does not say so anywhere. So now I will know which photo to make the main photo if I do more of these waymarks.

 

I thought that an overview photo would be the best as the main photo of my submission, but they wanted a specific item (not in the overview photo) in the main photo.

 

Any category where the main photo is important (which is often the case) should state what should be in the main photo, and this category did not. The description needs updated.

[+Metro2]

I just noticed this thread. I was the person who denied Dave Harris' submission...and I must say the whole story is not being told. The submission was denied because, although he did obviously do a lot of work researching the statue, he did not describe the figure sufficiently...life-sized? wearing, doing? etc. Artist? Date? Plinth? This category requires a full description. Not just a bio of the figure. This was explained.

The other deadly failure.... mentioned in the declination was that quotations were in the Waymark without attribution. The submitter failed to make these changes and decided to continued to resubmit the Waymark without further changes. That is when I sent the matter to a vote..to explain to the category managers what was happening..and to stop the continual submission of the same Waymark with the (regrettable) threat by the submitter that he would just archive the submission and quit the category.

[GT.US]

It is always an option to ask the reviewer to send it to the group vote. There is no guarantee they will, but in the case where there is something borderline or subjective a group vote will confirm.

 

In the case where some bit of information is unavailable I would tell what steps I used to try to find it. For example instead of leaving blank, you could put "Unavailable to find using google search".

[+YoSam.]

There really is not an appeal process. You can email the category leader of the category and ask him to take a look and he can tell you what may be lacking on your waymark.

 

I just had one, in LDS Sites, denied "because it d is not a LDS site"

And in fact the site was built by Mormons, was the home of 4 Presidents of the Church of Latter Day Saints, and I wrote the leader...the only active officer BTW, making a fine dictatorship....and no answer to date.

 

If they are going to reject submissions that qualify - why in the sam-hell do they have a category to begin with?

Edited October 21, 2013 by YoSam.

[+YoSam.]

There really is not an appeal process. You can email the category leader of the category and ask him to take a look and he can tell you what may be lacking on your waymark.

 

I just had one, in LDS Sites, denied "because it d is not a LDS site"

And in fact the site was built by Mormons, was the home of 4 Presidents of the Church of Latter Day Saints, and I wrote the leader...the only active officer BTW, making a fine dictatorship....and no answer to date.

 

If they are going to reject submissions that qualify - why in the sam-hell do they have a category to begin with?

 

Update, "B Family" sent me a very nice e-mail and took the trouble to explain the split in the LDS church and why it was declined. I was pleasantly impressed with the detail and professional way he handled it.

I wish some of that info was in the requirements, but now I am just getting picky.

[+MountainWoods]

Actually, I don't think so. That's what I was saying about the waymark that I had declined, then was told how to fix it. If the requirements are such-and-such, then why not put them in the description? Folks cannot read the "founding fathers'" minds. We try the best we can to get all of the information and photos; and if a category needs more, we are not loath to get it. We just need to know that we need it!

[+Max and 99]

Actually, I don't think so. That's what I was saying about the waymark that I had declined, then was told how to fix it. If the requirements are such-and-such, then why not put them in the description? Folks cannot read the "founding fathers'" minds. We try the best we can to get all of the information and photos; and if a category needs more, we are not loath to get it. We just need to know that we need it!

 

Ditto!

[+linkys]

Actually, I don't think so. That's what I was saying about the waymark that I had declined, then was told how to fix it. If the requirements are such-and-such, then why not put them in the description? Folks cannot read the "founding fathers'" minds. We try the best we can to get all of the information and photos; and if a category needs more, we are not loath to get it. We just need to know that we need it!

 

Ditto!

 

Ditto! Ditto!

[+silverquill]

Just a few more comments --

 

In regard to photos: I wish the default view showed and additional strip of five photos. Because it doesn't, I seldom upload more than five, except in cases where I really need to. And, yes, it doesn't hurt to mention in the comment box that there are additional photos. I don't see the point in declining a waymark because a different default photo is required/desired. When reviewing a waymark it is easy and quick to change that. I have only a few categories where I specify a certain type of photo -- and it this is ignored most of the time, so I'd be declining a lot of waymarks.

 

This sounds like a broken record, but it is incumbent upon the reviewer to state exactly why a waymark is being declined! Sometimes I've missed something as a reviewer, and it's easy for the person to point out my mistake. Usually, if there is something missing or something that needs to be changed, that is done cordially, and we have a new waymark. What is annoying are waymarks that are resubmitted without change or comment, or are accompanied by argumentative or hostile remarks. This latter rarely happens!

 

Yes, we should know up front what the requirements are in any particular category. It is not unreasonable to expect category descriptions and posting instructions to reflect the basic requirements. On the other hand, it is impossible to cover every eventuality in a description, and if the request for a change or additional information is reasonable, then that shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes these situations have helped me refine a category description.

 

Most of all, let us assume good will for all, and approach these differences with civility worthy of our hobby.