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Pill bottles, bags for caches, LPC's


fart knocker!

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You can't always blame the container. :P

That's true. It's never the container's fault. Rather, it's the cheapskate, lazy cache owners who choose known crappy containers that are to blame. The silly notion that one can use known crappy containers because they've found soggy logs in ammo cans is, perhaps, the most absurd notion I've ever read on these forums. While, technically, it's accurate to say that any container is capable of failing, those who care about the experiences of the folks who seek their caches will play the odds, and use the best possible container for their given location. Those who don't care will place crappy containers, and wait till they see logs complaining about the soggy mess inside their crappy container and go do maintenance.

 

Cheapskate,lazy,crappy,silly,crappy2,soggy,absurd,crappy3,crappy4......wow, now tell us how you really feel. :D

A couple of years ago I met an reviewer-moderator-lacky and among other things we discussed containers. He felt the film can was about in the middle of the micro pack re quality and I agree.....I had one submerged for 2 years held down by a rock and it stayed dry ( exposed to the elements and found often a film can lid will crack in under 2 years ). A lot has to do with what conditions the hide is going to see. Key holders and mint tins don't pretend to be water tight but work well in sheltered areas....a mint tin in a tree in south Louisiana is ridiculous. I don't really believe in " crappy " containers but I believe some containers are hid in an inappropriate manner. To place a leaky container where it is exposed to the elements is a bad idea.

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...GET RID OF THEOSE CRAPPY CACHES AND MAKE ROOM FOR NEW ONE.

 

...BUT IN SOTHER CALIFORINA A PILLBOTTLE ISA A STANDERD HIDE

 

...A PILL BOTTLE CAN DEFLECT MOST OF TEH WATER IF ITS COVERED.

A few intemperate thoughts.

1 ) Typing in ALL CAPS is the Internet equivalent of shouting.

2 ) Your proposal suggests getting rid of crappy caches and replacing them with crappy caches.

3 ) Key word in your 3rd sentence is "most". For $0.88 you can deflect all.

 

I am seeing more and more bag hides. Its a cheap, very cheap way to place caches in area where it will go missing within a few months. When it go missing, just archived it and start over. I am starting to see this in my area.

 

Most good spots are taken. I am talking about spots that a nice container wont get muggled so quickly.

 

Like this?

 

587d2c3168b8d1afe18fc18abbaba99c.jpg

i see my share of those. I been seeing them on an end of a wire deep in a hole. (hello OoC)

 

IM KINDA SORRY BUT THE WIRE IN A HOLE IS A PRITTY GOOD IDEA IF UR USING A PILL BOTTLE OR A BISON TUBE ECT.

How is that a good idea? What is it about that spot that compels you to bring others there?

To paraphrase Briansnat: "Think about the reason you placed your geocache at that spot.

If the only reason was to create another lame, uninspired smilie, find another spot"

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wow, now tell us how you really feel.

 

Gladly. As this is a social activity, with constant interaction betwixt players, I like to view every single geocacher out there as either a personal friend, or a good friend I haven't met yet. This is mostly based on the fact that, being a hobby almost entirely based on trusting strangers, it has evolved to a point where the vast majority of folks who stick with it, are positive, enjoyable folks. Of the three or four hundred cachers I know personally, not a single one is a person I would not feel any hesitation about having them in my home.

 

So, it starts there. Cachers, for the most part, are good folks.

 

Because of this belief, (that all cachers are my friends), I don't want them to ever have to deal with a wet, moldy log. As others have mentioned, any container can fail. But by playing the odds, using and actively promoting others to use, quality containers, the odds of a wet, moldy log is significantly reduced.

 

As to crappy Vs. inappropriate? This may be a matter of semantics. I believe that the job of a container, any container, be it the size of a pinky fingernail, or as huge as a shipping box, is to protect its contents. It really doesn't matter what the contents are. I don't rate a container as crappy simply because it is only large enough to hold a strip of paper. Rather, to me, any container which is unable to protect its contents, in its given environment, is crappy. On a broader scale, any container which is unable to protect its contents in a variety of environments, is crappy. In other words, I won't give a pass on certain containers simply because they might be suited for use in certain, very limited environments. When I hear someone say they are using a film can because they don't get much rain in their area, I cringe. Why not use a paper sack? Both suck.

 

To place a leaky container where it is exposed to the elements is a bad idea.

Unless you have an annual average humidity of less than 0.01%, any container placed outside is exposed to the elements.

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Cheapskate,lazy,crappy,silly,crappy2,soggy,absurd,crappy3,crappy4......wow, now tell us how you really feel. :D

A couple of years ago I met an reviewer-moderator-lacky and among other things we discussed containers. He felt the film can was about in the middle of the micro pack re quality and I agree.....I had one submerged for 2 years held down by a rock and it stayed dry ( exposed to the elements and found often a film can lid will crack in under 2 years ). A lot has to do with what conditions the hide is going to see. Key holders and mint tins don't pretend to be water tight but work well in sheltered areas....a mint tin in a tree in south Louisiana is ridiculous. I don't really believe in " crappy " containers but I believe some containers are hid in an inappropriate manner. To place a leaky container where it is exposed to the elements is a bad idea.

 

I agree....

 

I must be a cheapskate and lazy....I've got about 6 film containers in the wild for coming up on 2 years now and I have yet to have a soggy log or a 'needs maintenance' complaint. It's a matter of common sense - Container & its surroundings (and maintenance).

 

Besides.... The critical masses have already labeled certain containers as 'bad'. What happens when there's a creative hide that doesn't involve any of the usual containers? Do we have the cache police come out and pass judgement? Or does the CO keep a close eye on his creation to see how it withstands to its surroundings? It's never been done before, so how does one know?

 

Yeah..the critical masses will never be happy.

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...GET RID OF THEOSE CRAPPY CACHES AND MAKE ROOM FOR NEW ONE.

 

...BUT IN SOTHER CALIFORINA A PILLBOTTLE ISA A STANDERD HIDE

 

...A PILL BOTTLE CAN DEFLECT MOST OF TEH WATER IF ITS COVERED.

A few intemperate thoughts.

1 ) Typing in ALL CAPS is the Internet equivalent of shouting.

2 ) Your proposal suggests getting rid of crappy caches and replacing them with crappy caches.

3 ) Key word in your 3rd sentence is "most". For $0.88 you can deflect all.

 

I am seeing more and more bag hides. Its a cheap, very cheap way to place caches in area where it will go missing within a few months. When it go missing, just archived it and start over. I am starting to see this in my area.

 

Most good spots are taken. I am talking about spots that a nice container wont get muggled so quickly.

 

Like this?

 

587d2c3168b8d1afe18fc18abbaba99c.jpg

i see my share of those. I been seeing them on an end of a wire deep in a hole. (hello OoC)

 

IM KINDA SORRY BUT THE WIRE IN A HOLE IS A PRITTY GOOD IDEA IF UR USING A PILL BOTTLE OR A BISON TUBE ECT.

How is that a good idea? What is it about that spot that compels you to bring others there?

To paraphrase Briansnat: "Think about the reason you placed your geocache at that spot.

If the only reason was to create another lame, uninspired smilie, find another spot"

 

what I mean if it was anything but a bag would be a good hide. I mean like cammo

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Cheapskate,lazy,crappy,silly,crappy2,soggy,absurd,crappy3,crappy4......wow, now tell us how you really feel. :D

A couple of years ago I met an reviewer-moderator-lacky and among other things we discussed containers. He felt the film can was about in the middle of the micro pack re quality and I agree.....I had one submerged for 2 years held down by a rock and it stayed dry ( exposed to the elements and found often a film can lid will crack in under 2 years ). A lot has to do with what conditions the hide is going to see. Key holders and mint tins don't pretend to be water tight but work well in sheltered areas....a mint tin in a tree in south Louisiana is ridiculous. I don't really believe in " crappy " containers but I believe some containers are hid in an inappropriate manner. To place a leaky container where it is exposed to the elements is a bad idea.

 

I agree....

 

I must be a cheapskate and lazy....I've got about 6 film containers in the wild for coming up on 2 years now and I have yet to have a soggy log or a 'needs maintenance' complaint. It's a matter of common sense - Container & its surroundings (and maintenance).

 

Besides.... The critical masses have already labeled certain containers as 'bad'. What happens when there's a creative hide that doesn't involve any of the usual containers? Do we have the cache police come out and pass judgement? Or does the CO keep a close eye on his creation to see how it withstands to its surroundings? It's never been done before, so how does one know?

 

Yeah..the critical masses will never be happy.

Here's a thought.

You could test the container to determine if it sucks.

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...GET RID OF THEOSE CRAPPY CACHES AND MAKE ROOM FOR NEW ONE.

 

...BUT IN SOTHER CALIFORINA A PILLBOTTLE ISA A STANDERD HIDE

 

...A PILL BOTTLE CAN DEFLECT MOST OF TEH WATER IF ITS COVERED.

A few intemperate thoughts.

1 ) Typing in ALL CAPS is the Internet equivalent of shouting.

2 ) Your proposal suggests getting rid of crappy caches and replacing them with crappy caches.

3 ) Key word in your 3rd sentence is "most". For $0.88 you can deflect all.

 

I am seeing more and more bag hides. Its a cheap, very cheap way to place caches in area where it will go missing within a few months. When it go missing, just archived it and start over. I am starting to see this in my area.

 

Most good spots are taken. I am talking about spots that a nice container wont get muggled so quickly.

 

Like this?

 

587d2c3168b8d1afe18fc18abbaba99c.jpg

i see my share of those. I been seeing them on an end of a wire deep in a hole. (hello OoC)

 

IM KINDA SORRY BUT THE WIRE IN A HOLE IS A PRITTY GOOD IDEA IF UR USING A PILL BOTTLE OR A BISON TUBE ECT.

How is that a good idea? What is it about that spot that compels you to bring others there?

To paraphrase Briansnat: "Think about the reason you placed your geocache at that spot.

If the only reason was to create another lame, uninspired smilie, find another spot"

 

what I mean if it was anything but a bag would be a good hide. I mean like cammo

Maybe we have different definitions of "Good"...

Look at the location. While it might be an amazing spot, from the picture it looks like just one of a gazillion power poles along some uninspired stretch of roadway. When you say anything other than a baggie would be a good cache, I think of such crap as film cans, Altoids tins, Gladware, and hide-a-keys. None of those would, in my opinion, make this a good cache. If the location totally sucks, it's hard to imagine any container would improve it.

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Here's a thought.

You could test the container to determine if it sucks.

 

Ok..... and how are you supposed to do that?

 

I'll just send it to NASA and have them re-create the EXACT location I want to hide it in. Then, they can produce actual weather conditions and fast forward those weather conditions for 2 years.... And have robots open & close the container a thousand times....

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Last night I was up late and watching TV, and I saw a commercial for a plastic restorer for autos. The ad claimed that they put the restored vehicle through "100 car washes" to prove it would hold up in real life.

 

Which made me laugh. Plastic fading and cracking is not caused by rain or by car washes, but mostly by UV exposure. If they had subjected the vehicle to multiple years' worth of UV exposure, that would have been a valid test.

 

But this got me thinking: the ad is effective because most people don't know the main causes of weathering. That includes geocachers.

 

Any discussion of appropriate containers has to include some accurate information about weathering factors. Here are a few common myths about containers:

 

  • Internal moisture. Most geocachers think this results from a leaky container that lets liquid water in. That is incorrect. The vast majority of wet logs come from containers that are not completely airtight. Changes in temperature and humidity cause water vapor to enter the container and the water condenses. Pelican cases are an excellent example of this effect. If they are submerged they will accumulate water inside from water vapor passing through a gore-tex pressure equilibration vent. Here's the thing: testing a container for water-tightness by placing it under water for a few minutes does not work!
  • Ziplock baggies. In most cases I have seen, these make the problem worse, not better. If they are not perfectly sealed water will get in as described above.
  • Sunlight. Any plastic container that has exposure to light will degrade from UV in sunlight. Polypropylene is especially sensitive. It is rare to see an intact Tupperware or lock-n-lock that has significant UV exposure last more than a few years. Covering the container with camo duct tape helps, but it eventually comes off as well, and often does not protect the most important parts of lock-n-locks, which are the plastic hinges that get brittle and crack off.
  • Bison tubes. These only remain watertight as long as the o-ring lasts. And in high-UV environments, that is less than a year. Silicone o-rings are better, but by no means perfect. There are some specialty tubes built with o-rings protected from the light that appear to last longer, but even those will not last forever.
  • Film canisters. Some are not bad: the kind with the top that fits inside the tube. Ones where the top overlaps the top of the tube to make a seal don't hold water vapor out.
  • Metal boxes. These ALL leak. Not only that, they rust and get very difficult to open.
  • Magnets. Nickel-plated NdFeB super-strong magnets have very little intrinsic strength. Gluing these to the outside of a container does not work. They need to be attached in a way that does not depend on their strength.

 

Any others?

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Here's a thought.

You could test the container to determine if it sucks.

 

Ok..... and how are you supposed to do that?

 

I'll just send it to NASA and have them re-create the EXACT location I want to hide it in. Then, they can produce actual weather conditions and fast forward those weather conditions for 2 years.... And have robots open & close the container a thousand times....

Sure. You could do that. If you want, I can direct you to someone at Kennedy Space Center who could get you started down that path. Personally, I find such a process to be excessive, but if going overboard is your cup of tea, I certainly won't discourage you. My testing method is far simpler, and has, to date, provided data which exactly matches what I've personally experienced in the field. All you need to do is stuff a bit of tissue in the container you wish to check, and toss it in the washing machine for several loads of laundry, then, if it survives all that rough handling in a moist environment, toss it in the hedges by your front door for a month or two, opening and closing it ever so often.

 

The choice is yours.

 

The imperfect yet effective method, or the drama queen method.

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  • Internal moisture. Most geocachers think this results from a leaky container that lets liquid water in. That is incorrect. The vast majority of wet logs come from containers that are not completely airtight. Changes in temperature and humidity cause water vapor to enter the container and the water condenses. Pelican cases are an excellent example of this effect. If they are submerged they will accumulate water inside from water vapor passing through a gore-tex pressure equilibration vent. Here's the thing: testing a container for water-tightness by placing it under water for a few minutes does not work!
  • Ziplock baggies. In most cases I have seen, these make the problem worse, not better. If they are not perfectly sealed water will get in as described above.
  • Sunlight. Any plastic container that has exposure to light will degrade from UV in sunlight. Polypropylene is especially sensitive. It is rare to see an intact Tupperware or lock-n-lock that has significant UV exposure last more than a few years. Covering the container with camo duct tape helps, but it eventually comes off as well, and often does not protect the most important parts of lock-n-locks, which are the plastic hinges that get brittle and crack off.
  • Bison tubes. These only remain watertight as long as the o-ring lasts. And in high-UV environments, that is less than a year. Silicone o-rings are better, but by no means perfect. There are some specialty tubes built with o-rings protected from the light that appear to last longer, but even those will not last forever.
  • Film canisters. Some are not bad: the kind with the top that fits inside the tube. Ones where the top overlaps the top of the tube to make a seal don't hold water vapor out.
  • Metal boxes. These ALL leak. Not only that, they rust and get very difficult to open.
  • Magnets. Nickel-plated NdFeB super-strong magnets have very little intrinsic strength. Gluing these to the outside of a container does not work. They need to be attached in a way that does not depend on their strength.

+1

 

I placed one of my hand-made "Badge-A-Minit" pin button sig items in a ziplock bag in an ammo can. Three years later, the button was showing rust, even through the paper between its crimped mylar cover and the metal. The ziplock itself was untouched, in perfect shape. I don't know if it somehow absorbed moisture or if it simply retained moisture for the 3 years. But now I often don't bother with the ziplock. Whatever it was supposed to do, it didn't. :anicute:

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Here's a thought.

You could test the container to determine if it sucks.

 

Ok..... and how are you supposed to do that?

 

I'll just send it to NASA and have them re-create the EXACT location I want to hide it in. Then, they can produce actual weather conditions and fast forward those weather conditions for 2 years.... And have robots open & close the container a thousand times....

Sure. You could do that. If you want, I can direct you to someone at Kennedy Space Center who could get you started down that path. Personally, I find such a process to be excessive, but if going overboard is your cup of tea, I certainly won't discourage you. My testing method is far simpler, and has, to date, provided data which exactly matches what I've personally experienced in the field. All you need to do is stuff a bit of tissue in the container you wish to check, and toss it in the washing machine for several loads of laundry, then, if it survives all that rough handling in a moist environment, toss it in the hedges by your front door for a month or two, opening and closing it ever so often.

 

The choice is yours.

 

The imperfect yet effective method, or the drama queen method.

 

lets just all calm down. ok. this is suppose to be a official place were you cacn ask questions, post, pics/videos, and share your geocaching experiences. not a place to start a flame war with someone.

 

refeir to #2 in the groundspeek rules ,"2. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests in these forums with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, everyone should be treated respectfully :signalviolin: ." http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

Edited by fart knocker!
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Sure. You could do that. If you want, I can direct you to someone at Kennedy Space Center who could get you started down that path. Personally, I find such a process to be excessive, but if going overboard is your cup of tea, I certainly won't discourage you. My testing method is far simpler, and has, to date, provided data which exactly matches what I've personally experienced in the field. All you need to do is stuff a bit of tissue in the container you wish to check, and toss it in the washing machine for several loads of laundry, then, if it survives all that rough handling in a moist environment, toss it in the hedges by your front door for a month or two, opening and closing it ever so often.

 

The choice is yours.

 

The imperfect yet effective method, or the drama queen method.

 

:laughing:

 

Ya know...sometimes people just over-think things. I love this hobby because it fits in with my busy schedule and I don't have to over-think anything. Hide, maintain, enjoy. Hike, find, enjoy.

 

I understand the frustrations of bad caches whether it be from wet/soggy logs, full logs, bad & unsafe conditions.... been there and seen that. But, there are a few of us cache owners who utilize common sense and feel the importance of a higher quality experience and take care of our stuff. If I can't take care of my stuff - it gets archived. Simple as that.

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Sure. You could do that. If you want, I can direct you to someone at Kennedy Space Center who could get you started down that path. Personally, I find such a process to be excessive, but if going overboard is your cup of tea, I certainly won't discourage you. My testing method is far simpler, and has, to date, provided data which exactly matches what I've personally experienced in the field. All you need to do is stuff a bit of tissue in the container you wish to check, and toss it in the washing machine for several loads of laundry, then, if it survives all that rough handling in a moist environment, toss it in the hedges by your front door for a month or two, opening and closing it ever so often.

 

The choice is yours.

 

The imperfect yet effective method, or the drama queen method.

 

:laughing:

 

Ya know...sometimes people just over-think things. I love this hobby because it fits in with my busy schedule and I don't have to over-think anything. Hide, maintain, enjoy. Hike, find, enjoy.

 

I understand the frustrations of bad caches whether it be from wet/soggy logs, full logs, bad & unsafe conditions.... been there and seen that. But, there are a few of us cache owners who utilize common sense and feel the importance of a higher quality experience and take care of our stuff. If I can't take care of my stuff - it gets archived. Simple as that.

I should add, if you toss a couple ammo cans in your washing machine, to test them, your significant other might get rather cross with you. But, as a benefit, I now know how to replace the agitator on a Maytag. :lol:

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IDK but i feal like if you hide a bag as a geocache it is good for the numbers, but how well do they hold up. same with lpc's they get muggled all the time.

 

im not shure if this works any better, but if you add a strip of duct tape arround the seal of the bag will it help it better in the long run from ripping???? i have no clue on this one? dose someone know???

 

thanks!

 

Fart Knocker!

pill bottles make for bad caches. In most cases I have had to use a leatherman tool to get the bag containing the cache out of the bottle. After a few finds the baggie is ruined. Places like Tap's Plastic sell little plastic cans that are only 25 t0 50 cents each that make a better container.

The other container that suck are Altoids containers, they rust up in the rain and they are not water proof but cachers keeping using them, (Maybe lots of cachers have bad breath) ;-)

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IDK but i feal like if you hide a bag as a geocache it is good for the numbers, but how well do they hold up. same with lpc's they get muggled all the time.

 

im not shure if this works any better, but if you add a strip of duct tape arround the seal of the bag will it help it better in the long run from ripping???? i have no clue on this one? dose someone know???

 

thanks!

 

Fart Knocker!

pill bottles make for bad caches. In most cases I have had to use a leatherman tool to get the bag containing the cache out of the bottle. After a few finds the baggie is ruined. Places like Tap's Plastic sell little plastic cans that are only 25 t0 50 cents each that make a better container.

The other container that suck are Altoids containers, they rust up in the rain and they are not water proof but cachers keeping using them, (Maybe lots of cachers have bad breath) ;-)

 

Pill bottles make for bad containers because they leak.

 

Any container who's neck is narrower than it's body makes a bad container unless steps have been taken to keep the log from expanding inside the container. I call these "ship in a bottle caches". 4" container with a 2" neck and I can't even get my fingers on the log. I've been tempted to get the Sharpie out and just sign the container.

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