Equipment Recommendations

[+LashRash]

I'm looking for a new GPS device. I no longer have cell phone service, the cost is too astronomical. I can geocache with maps by estimating the location with research, hints, and the cache descriptions. I'm looking for a device that can meet several of my requirements while not forcing me to spend an exorbitant amount. I want to have this device with me so if I get the itch, I can pull it out, find the closest cache, and have some fun.

 

Basic Requirements:

 

• 
   
  
• Internal Rechargeable Battery
  
• Color display preferred, monochromatic if necessary
  
• Step by step directions, with auto change if I need to be rerouted
  
• The ability to load cache coordinates from a windows based computer
  
• Multiple map displays (satellite, terrain, topographic, and ariel)
  

 

Thanks in advance for the assistance from our very helpful community!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

[alandb]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

Doesn't the Garmin Montana accommodate a Li-Ion battery pack that can be recharged without removal?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

Doesn't the Garmin Montana accommodate a Li-Ion battery pack that can be recharged without removal?

I have no reason to amend my original post.

[+Mineral2]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

Doesn't the Garmin Montana accommodate a Li-Ion battery pack that can be recharged without removal?

I have no reason to amend my original post.

 

But... the Garmin Montana is

a.) expensive

b.) requires extra costs to get all of the extra map displays

 

Just curious why you require a dedicated internal rechargeable battery when the use of AA's (rechargeable or not) is more convenient in the field?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

Doesn't the Garmin Montana accommodate a Li-Ion battery pack that can be recharged without removal?

I have no reason to amend my original post.

 

But... the Garmin Montana is

a.) expensive

b.) requires extra costs to get all of the extra map displays

 

Just curious why you require a dedicated internal rechargeable battery when the use of AA's (rechargeable or not) is more convenient in the field?

The DeLorme PN-60 may also be powered by both rechargeable and expendable AA cells. Consequently, a user has the option of using one of those based on operational considerations.

[insig]

The PN-60 is also over 3 years old with no new handhelds from DeLorme in sight for the future. To me, it seems like they've stepped away from the handheld market and move into the specialty 2-way satellite communication market with their inReach devices. Granted, the last two sentences were purely my own highly-subjective opinion. The PN-60 also uses a proprietary USB cable -- you can't just grab any USB cable off the shelf and use it.

 

Coming from a smartphone, I would suggest a touch screen device. Most handheld GPS devices use resistive screens rather than capacitive screens. This means the screen responds to pressure rather than the electrical conductivity of your finger. The main reason for this is that you will be able to use the screen with gloves. The exception to this is the Oregon 600 series which uses a capacitive screen that can be used with thinner gloves as well as your bare fingers.

 

If the internal battery is really the most important thing for you, then there are a couple of units out that besides the PN-60 that will do what you want. The Garmin Montana can use either a rechargeable lithium-ion battery pack that will recharge when you plug the device in or 3 AA batteries. The Garmin Oregon 600/650 can use a NiMH pack that will recharge when you plug the device in or a pair of AA batteries. Otherwise, most any unit will run just fine off of rechargeable NiMH AA batteries that you have to pop out of the unit to recharge. However, the joy of AA batteries is that you can carry a spare set of them to use when the first set needs recharging.

 

If you buy a Garmin unit (such as the Oregon 450 which has been going for about $200 lately), you can download free maps at places like www.gpsfiledepot.com or garmin.openstreetmap.nl for topographical or street maps, respectively.

 

I would recommend going to a local geocaching event and asking fellow cachers what they use.

 

Edit: clarify and add last line.

Edited September 15, 2013 by insig

[+LashRash]

Basic Requirements:

 

• Internal Rechargeable Battery Revised due to recommendations
  
• Color display preferred, monochromatic if necessary
  
• Step by step directions, with auto change if I need to be rerouted
  
• The ability to load cache coordinates from a windows based computer
  
• Multiple map displays (satellite, terrain, topographic, and ariel)
  

[+splashy]

Often what you THINK is good turns out to be a vision, once in real life other things are more important.

 

All gps'es will do line 2 3 4

Line 1 some will line 5 is not a must, all models do road and topo, the terrain and or satellite views are often useless.

 

As somebody else said go to a geoching meeting, to see what they are using.

 

Remember coming from a smartphone with all the nice modern apps, a gps is a bit of a stoneage with no room to change ( like adding another app).

Consider offline maps for your smartphone, together with a backup battery, you might have solved your problem.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

The PN-60 is also over 3 years old with no new handhelds from DeLorme in sight for the future. To me, it seems like they've stepped away from the handheld market and move into the specialty 2-way satellite communication market with their inReach devices. Granted, the last two sentences were purely my own highly-subjective opinion. The PN-60 also uses a proprietary USB cable -- you can't just grab any USB cable off the shelf and use it.

a] Make a decent one from the get-go and there is no need to produce 6 copies of the same or similar...

b] They (Delorme) seem to have fulfilled the huge (U.S.) Gov't contract are a back to shipping for consumers... (says something in itself, there)

c] Proprietary cable, eh?... never seemed to hurt Apple too much...

d] Subjectivity goes two ways...

If the internal battery is really the most important thing for you, then there are a couple of units out that besides the PN-60 that will do what you want. The Garmin Montana can use either a rechargeable lithium-ion battery pack that will recharge when you plug the device in or 3 AA batteries. The Garmin Oregon 600/650 can use a NiMH pack that will recharge when you plug the device in or a pair of AA batteries. Otherwise, most any unit will run just fine off of rechargeable NiMH AA batteries that you have to pop out of the unit to recharge. However, the joy of AA batteries is that you can carry a spare set of them to use when the first set needs recharging.

Agreed. Having a unit that can use multiple types of batteries is best. Spare batteries is the key to this issue, rechargeable or throw-away... makes no difference. Being left with dead rechargeable batteries does one no good whatsoever, if you cannot substitute throw-aways.

If you buy a Garmin unit (such as the Oregon 450 which has been going for about $200 lately), you can download free maps at places like www.gpsfiledepot.com or garmin.openstreetmap.nl for topographical or street maps, respectively.

Again, subjectivity raises its head... Delorme has some of the best maps available. They come with the unit, not purchased separately and are upgradeable with subscription. If you should muck up the maps in your unit, it is still available on your computer and on the accompanying CD set (tucked away with all your other programming disks). The shortcoming of this is that their mapping program is limited to North America -- and Mexico, if you don't consider that as part of "North" America.

I would recommend going to a local geocaching event and asking fellow cachers what they use.

It would be impossible to argue with this reasoning. Would add only that "hands-on" try outs of differing Makes/Models is also of benefit.

 

I have no dislike of Garmin (have two as back-up units), or Magellan. But after stumbling across and using a Delorme... I simply prefer the versatility and advantages (a little give and take, there) of their units. That said... the other 'team' member carries a smart phone at the same time. The best of both worlds.

[+davemcwish]

Not sure where the negativity on the Montanna comes from but as a user of that device I should point out it covers the OP 5 criteria:-

 

• Internal Rechargeable Battery
  

 

Yes. It has the ability to use lithium-ion pack or 3 AA. Recharging is via a generic USB -> MiniUSB cable between the Montana and your power source; no need to remove anything.

 

• Color display preferred, monochromatic if necessary
  

 

For me anyway is really clear & bright however I have had occassional difficulties in bright direct sun.

 

• Step by step directions, with auto change if I need to be rerouted
  

 

Dependent on the type of map you have, yes.

 

• The ability to load cache coordinates from a windows based computer
  

 

Yes, paperless caching via load of GPX files from a PQ or via GSAK.

 

• Multiple map displays (satellite, terrain, topographic, and ariel)
  

 

Yes but this does cost. For me, the ariel/satellite isn't required and I use the free open source maps. If I really needed satellite I could use my iPhone.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Yes to all the multiple displays, the DeLorme PN-60 can host and display all those listed above.

Cost: For an annual subscription on $30, one can download unlimited areas from DeLorme. I have 2 dozen GB of color, aerial imagery on a 32GB SDHC card on my PN-60 which covers several K square miles.

I find that it substantially helps in geocache searches to be able to see the locations of the geocache and myself in relation to the surroundings, such as structures and trees.

I might add, of course as hosted internally, all the photo imagery is useable outside of cellular coverage. I use it extensively in the back country for remotely placed caches.

 

In summary, the DeLorme PN-60 can satisfy all the requirements listed in the initial post.

[+Maingray]

I can't recommend Delorme for any of their handheld units. Shoddy build, non-intuitive UI and lack of recent handheld interest go against their use. It has maps, but tells you it can do step by step directions but it is completely suboptimal compared to the premium navigable maps garmin sell (they also sell satellite and topo solutions). Delorme do great maps, they should have stuck to that.

 

For the OP, I'd go for either the 62s or the Oregon 450t and use some good rechargeable batteries. If the internal LiON is a deal breaker, then maybe the Montana. They also have one click transition from street routing to direct routing seems to fit your specific need.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Maingray

[+Mineral2]

I'm looking for a device that can meet several of my requirements while not forcing me to spend an exorbitant amount.

 

This is a key piece of the OP's requirements that argue against the Garmin Montana, namely, it's not an inexpensive device. The DeLorme cost is a little bit over half of what a Montana would cost.

 

A Garmin Oregon 450, at under $200, is a worthwhile contender. It can do everything the OP requires except recharge batteries in the unit. Birdseye satellite imagery subscription is the same cost as DeLorme's version, $30/year.

[+LashRash]

I thank you all for the assistance in my decision. I'm going to splurge a bit more than I wanted too, so it means I'll save up an additional month. I'm going with the eTrex 20 or 30. I'm deciding if the electronic compass is worth it. I'm a Royal Ranger so direction by stars and the sun are usually good enough for me, but I do like just being able to look down and walk on.

 

My question now becomes this:

 

Are the stock maps found in GPS devices suitable for a cacher or is it recommended that I purchase higher quality maps?

Edited September 21, 2013 by LashRash

[+Walts Hunting]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

Doesn't the Garmin Montana accommodate a Li-Ion battery pack that can be recharged without removal?

Yes it does. Very handy for me.

[+splashy]

My question now becomes this:

 

Are the stock maps found in GPS devices suitable for a cacher or is it recommended that I purchase higher quality maps?

 

AFAIK, the etrex models come with the Garmin basemap, showing only the major hw's, for geocaching you don't actually NEED a map, but having one can make things easier.

You can find free very good US/Can TOPO maps at gpsfiledepot, many of the map are routable ( showing directions like left right)

Other good free streetmaps are OpenStreetMap = OSM maps

 

As a ranger your need and expectations might differ from the general public, maybe you can rent a gps to see what's really like and see if you need a gps compass, since you probably own a good one.

[+user13371]

... going with the eTrex 20 or 30. I'm deciding if the electronic compass is worth it. ...direction by stars and the sun are usually good enough for me...

I have an eTrex 20. I don't feel deprived for lack of a compass -- and from your background don't think you would either. But I'll echo some of the previous advise given here: go to a geocaching event or perhaps a retailer and gets some hands-on time. See what works for you personally.

 

Are the stock maps found in GPS devices suitable for a cacher or is it recommended that I purchase higher quality maps?

The built in map is not suitable for geocaching. But you may not need to purchase additional; there are lots of good maps for free on http://www.gpsfiledepot.com and also http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl. And google is your friend, just search for "free garmin maps" and you'll be sifting through far more options than I've suggested here.

Edited September 21, 2013 by user13371

[+Mineral2]

Are the stock maps found in GPS devices suitable for a cacher or is it recommended that I purchase higher quality maps?

The built in map is not suitable for geocaching. But you may not need to purchase additional; there are lots of good maps for free on http://www.gpsfiledepot.com and also http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl. And google is your friend, just search for "free garmin maps" and you'll be sifting through far more options than I've suggested here.

 

I have to disagree here. Geocaching does not require a map. Therefore, any map is suitable for geocaching. In fact, if you really want to get technical, using a GPS for any kind of navigation doesn't actually require a map. Maps are useful extras that let you see your destination in relation to geographical land marks, or help you plan a route on the fly, but it's not the in-GPS map itself that will get you to your destination.

[+luvvinbird]

I own several Garmin GPSr's which I use for geocaching and all required a few minor "adjustments" until I got used to using them. They all came with the basemap which I, and many others, will agree is really basic and downloading or buying another more detailed map is highly recommended. One exception to the GPSr learning curve would be the eTrex 20. Maybe because I'm more experienced with the other units I own, I just find that the eTrex 20 is very easy to understand and use right out of the box. Here in Canada, a lot of us "20" owners were lucky enough to get the eTrex 20 bundle which consisted of the device, a Canada topo map on SD card (which is superior to the basemap) and a case, all for $179.99 CDN. If a similar bundle exists in your area, I'd go for it.

[+user13371]

...I have to disagree here. Geocaching does not require a map. ...

You could of course geocache and navigate in many ways without a map -- or even GPS -- of any kind. But I was providing an opinion to a specific user who already indicated he WANTS a map and options for several different kinds of maps. When the question is framed that way, the base map provided on Garmin is but a small step above nothing.

[deserteagle56]

I can't recommend Delorme for any of their handheld units. Shoddy build, non-intuitive UI and lack of recent handheld interest go against their use. It has maps, but tells you it can do step by step directions but it is completely suboptimal compared to the premium navigable maps garmin sell (they also sell satellite and topo solutions). Delorme do great maps, they should have stuck to that.

 

For the OP, I'd go for either the 62s or the Oregon 450t and use some good rechargeable batteries. If the internal LiON is a deal breaker, then maybe the Montana. They also have one click transition from street routing to direct routing seems to fit your specific need.

 

I have to take issue with the "Shoddy Build" statement. I own both a PN-40 and PN-60 unit. I live and ride in some of the roughest, most remote regions of this country. These units are mounted in RAM mounts on the handlebars of my dirt bike and my quad and take an awful beating, yet neither has ever failed. The screens may be tiny but they are very sharp and visible - and the maps are the best. The Garmin 24k maps are routable - but sorely need updating. There are roads I have traveled for years that do not appear on their maps. Not a problem with the Delorme maps.

 

As far as the question of charging a Montana, I have one of those also. I'm getting on 70 years old and my eyes like that bigger screen. But when mounted in the Rugged Mount and plugged in to 12 volts when on my dirt bike or quad the internal lithium battery is kept fully charged all the time.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

....... non-intuitive UI ......

I've seen this criticism a number of times; however, it is always posted without a descriptive characterization, such as quoted post. Consequently, I would like take this opportunity to add characterization in a comparative context.

 

Two similar subjects, both rotary temperature controls, one from my house and one from my vehicle:

House: The water temperature control (Moen) in my shower is HOT - CCW and COLD - CW,

Vehicle: The air temperature control (Jeep) on the dash is COLD - CCW and HOT - CW.

[+gcfishguy]

......I'm deciding if the electronic compass is worth it. I'm a Royal Ranger so direction by stars and the sun are usually good enough for me, but I do like just being able to look down and walk on..........

 

Not sure if you already got a GPS, but hopefully you read up on the compass before you bought.

 

Non-electronic compass: Gps looks at where you are, then at where you WERE, determines which way you moved, and can then tell you North is THAT way, and orient your map correctly.

Stop, and the GPS is directionally lost. It knows the exact spot on the earth that it occupies, but it can't tell you which way North or South is. The other thing it can't do it correctly orient your map when you're stopped (in track UP mode). The only way it can figure that out is if you start moving again. I use mine a lot on my ATV and the 60CSX mounted nearly vertical (electronic compass but not 3-axis) would get confused as soon as I stopped, and flip the map upside down or sideways.

 

Electronic Compass: When you stop, or slow to nearly stopped, the GPS stops trying to figure out which direction you're facing by the 'where you are vs where you were a second ago) method, and switches to the compass for reference when it tries to say "the cache is THAT way", or "Here's your map, still oriented correctly...go ahead, turn in a circle, I'll STILL orient the map correctly"

 

Most buyers I talk to say exactly the same thing..it's not worth the extra for an electronic compass when you carry a magnetic compass anyway. After explaining how the electronic compass works with the map when you're stopped, etc, they often opt for the electronic compass. Some folks on here don't see the value in it, and don't like them at all. To each his own.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I can't recommend Delorme for any of their handheld units. Shoddy build, ....

Any real evidence of this disparaging remark?

Anything from a respected testing institution such as Consumer Reports?

Any corroborating data from applicable testing methodology such as that defined in Mil-Std-810

Or, just the usual wish-think, hearsay?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

The DeLorme PN-60 will provide all the listed requirements.

 

It is the only handheld GPSr that accommodates a Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack that may be recharged without removal.

Doesn't the Garmin Montana accommodate a Li-Ion battery pack that can be recharged without removal?

Yes it does. Very handy for me.

1. I appreciate the correction to my post.

2. There is far too much misinformation in the forum; it is not my intention to augment such.

3. I heartily agree to the operational characterization offered. I really appreciate the lack of necessity to remove the back and fiddle with batteries. I keep my GPSr charged via 12VDC to USB adapter as I drive and may not have had the back off in 6 months. (Yes, I understand that those on extended hiking, backpacking trips cannot rely on internally rechargeable Li-Ion battery packs.)

[+basscat5]

You guys get more attached to your chosen brand than the Ford vs Chevy guys....

 

To the OP...Go to REI or some other store that carries a large selection of GPS units and play with them...What fits someone else's needs may or may not fit yours...

 

I stick with Garmin because of familiarity..and I have had 0 issues with them.... I am sure the other brands will do everything that you are looking for...

[+bilikituri]

Regarding maps, in a city you can reach destination only guided by a straight line and some kind of Brownian motion you improvise.

 

But if you are hiking for caches following trials, Brownian motion won't help, you absolutely need to take the right path at the right fork, sometimes oriented in a non-intuitive position related to your destination. The basemap in Garmins is totally useless for this use case.

 

I personally use the ones in http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl .

Edited November 1, 2013 by bilikituri

[+BAMBOOZLE]

I can't recommend Delorme for any of their handheld units. Shoddy build, non-intuitive UI and lack of recent handheld interest go against their use. It has maps, but tells you it can do step by step directions but it is completely suboptimal compared to the premium navigable maps garmin sell (they also sell satellite and topo solutions). Delorme do great maps, they should have stuck to that.

 

For the OP, I'd go for either the 62s or the Oregon 450t and use some good rechargeable batteries. If the internal LiON is a deal breaker, then maybe the Montana. They also have one click transition from street routing to direct routing seems to fit your specific need.

 

+1....I own dozens of GPS units and used still others in the field and feel the 62S is the best unit for geocaching. Re Delorme units, I love trying out new units and years ago I couldn't wait for them to come out. There was so much negative written both on this forum and others that I just never could pull the trigger on one. Lots written about Topo maps but my question is does the PN 60 come with detail street maps of the U.S. already on the unit or do they have to be installed using software.....also will the unit hold ALL the U.S. detail street maps ( at the same time ) like the Garmin.....on the Garmin I buy the City Nav on a SD card, pop it in and I'm good to go and also can swap the card from unit to unit.

 

$249 seems like a decent price for the PN-60

 

http://www.thegpsstore.com/DeLorme-PN-60-Outdoor-GPS-P2402.aspx

[39_Steps]

Re Delorme units, I love trying out new units and years ago I couldn't wait for them to come out. There was so much negative written both on this forum and others that I just never could pull the trigger on one. Lots written about Topo maps but my question is does the PN 60 come with detail street maps of the U.S. already on the unit or do they have to be installed using software.....also will the unit hold ALL the U.S. detail street maps ( at the same time ) like the Garmin.....on the Garmin I buy the City Nav on a SD card, pop it in and I'm good to go and also can swap the card from unit to unit.

 

$249 seems like a decent price for the PN-60

 

http://www.thegpsstore.com/DeLorme-PN-60-Outdoor-GPS-P2402.aspx

That linked price is very good for a bundle that includes Delorme road and trail routable North America Topo/Road software for Win PC, plus road routable Topo/Road maps for the included Delorme PN-60 handheld GPS device. Any Class 10 32GB SDHC card can hold all maps for the contiguous USA. All the data is available simultaneously in the PN-60, but display of Topo contours can be disabled.

 

The PN-60 Device alone is not a substitute for the better Automobile road routing GPS units with audible turn directions, but if the PN-60 is plugged into a portable PC USB port can provide powerful large display mapping with voice navigation, including routing to multiple geocaches. Road routing is supported in the PN-60 with Topo10 software, but will require user insertion of on device shaping waypoints/stops for longer distance routes, unless created on a computer with Topo10 and transferred. How many? How often? Depends on how straight the roads are.

[Fangamon]