Permit Attribute Needed

[+Team Dromomania]

I live in Northern California and I have a State Park pass. However, there are at least two State Parks around here which require one to also obtain a permit before hiking in those areas. As it stands, one must hope that the CO says something about a permit required in the cache description but it would be really nice to have an "permit required" attribute so that these areas could be filtered. This is not about FEE areas. The permits are free but you usually must attend some sort of orientation class before they'll hand them out and those classes may only be offered once a month. Planning is needed if one wishes to caches those areas. On a personal note, I don't like all these permits - my wallet is full of them. Soon I'm going to have to carry a notebook just to hold all these permits and passes.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Our reviewer makes sure that we mention on the cache page that a hiking permit is required in the NWCDC (Newark Watershed) and how to obtain the permit.

[+Team Dromomania]

Here in California the State Parks are really in a mess. Many changes have been taking place. Several "State Parks" are no longer ran by the state but rather by "Land Trust" or "Regional Park" personal. And even that is changing. For example, the nearby Annadel State Park doesn't accept the county's Sonoma Regional Park pass but a couple of years ago Sonoma Regional took over control of the park and the regional pass was ok. However, this year the State took back the park and will no longer accept the regional park pass. Both passes cost a fee.

 

In another area of the county the Hood Mountain Regional Park borders the Sugarloaf State park. Parking on the border has been free until this year. The parking area happens to be on the State Park's land which had been taken over by a group which I've never heard of before. They are now charging for parking at that lot. They won't accept the Regional Pass but will accept the State Park pass for parking. A cache owner must be on top of things and post that $ FEE attribute when needed. This kind of stuff is happening all over the state.

 

Is it required to post "permit required" on cache pages? If so, a lot of emails requesting updates might be in order (for this area). I still think an attribute would help greatly.

[+FrodeBS]

Sorry for sidestepping, but I am in a bit of a shock. Coming from a country where you have the right to hike and camp about everywhere (private or government owned) in forrested area I am suprised to learn that you have to get a permit and pay a fee to hike in state parks in US.

[+Don_J]

Here in California the State Parks are really in a mess. Many changes have been taking place. Several "State Parks" are no longer ran by the state but rather by "Land Trust" or "Regional Park" personal. And even that is changing. For example, the nearby Annadel State Park doesn't accept the county's Sonoma Regional Park pass but a couple of years ago Sonoma Regional took over control of the park and the regional pass was ok. However, this year the State took back the park and will no longer accept the regional park pass. Both passes cost a fee.

 

In another area of the county the Hood Mountain Regional Park borders the Sugarloaf State park. Parking on the border has been free until this year. The parking area happens to be on the State Park's land which had been taken over by a group which I've never heard of before. They are now charging for parking at that lot. They won't accept the Regional Pass but will accept the State Park pass for parking. A cache owner must be on top of things and post that $ FEE attribute when needed. This kind of stuff is happening all over the state.

 

Is it required to post "permit required" on cache pages? If so, a lot of emails requesting updates might be in order (for this area). I still think an attribute would help greatly.

 

This kind of stuff is not happening all over the state, unless you are talking about the parking management company that the state has contracted with to collect fees at certain lots through automatic payment machines. Down in the lower part of the state, State Parks run the State Parks and the various regional, open space, and land trust organizations run their own stuff. There has been no swapping of jurisdictions.

 

Are you paying to hike or paying to park? According to the State Park website, it cost $6 to park in Annadel SP, Sugarloaf Ridge SP is $8.

 

What are the two parks that you mentioned that require a permit to hike?

Edited September 13, 2013 by Don_J

[+Team Dromomania]

Here in California the State Parks are really in a mess. Many changes have been taking place. Several "State Parks" are no longer ran by the state but rather by "Land Trust" or "Regional Park" personal. And even that is changing. For example, the nearby Annadel State Park doesn't accept the county's Sonoma Regional Park pass but a couple of years ago Sonoma Regional took over control of the park and the regional pass was ok. However, this year the State took back the park and will no longer accept the regional park pass. Both passes cost a fee.

 

In another area of the county the Hood Mountain Regional Park borders the Sugarloaf State park. Parking on the border has been free until this year. The parking area happens to be on the State Park's land which had been taken over by a group which I've never heard of before. They are now charging for parking at that lot. They won't accept the Regional Pass but will accept the State Park pass for parking. A cache owner must be on top of things and post that $ FEE attribute when needed. This kind of stuff is happening all over the state.

 

Is it required to post "permit required" on cache pages? If so, a lot of emails requesting updates might be in order (for this area). I still think an attribute would help greatly.

 

This kind of stuff is not happening all over the state, unless you are talking about the parking management company that the state has contracted with to collect fees at certain lots through automatic payment machines. Down in the lower part of the state, State Parks run the State Parks and the various regional, open space, and land trust organizations run their own stuff. There has been no swapping of jurisdictions.

 

Are you paying to hike or paying to park? According to the State Park website, it cost $6 to park in Annadel SP, Sugarloaf Ridge SP is $8.

 

What are the two parks that you mentioned that require a permit to hike?

 

Fees are for parking. New parking fee at Sugarloaf is for a parking area over a mile from the main entrance where there is only one trail which quickly connects to a county park. No fees have been collect for parking there until "Team Sugarloaf" took over running the park for the state a few months ago.

 

Willow Creek Park (part of Sonoma Coast Park) required a permit to HIKE. They offer a class every few weeks. The pass is free. I'd like to hike that area but I live 2 hrs away. I am going to take the class but since the morning will be shot in class I'll only have 1/2 day to enjoy the area until I can make that 4 hr round trip again and start at a decent hour for a full day of hiking.

 

The other area needing a pass is actually a state forest - Las Posadas Forest which is much nearer to me. I do have that pass. If you look it up don't be fooled by all the bike trails and comments. Those trails are on college property. The real pretty stuff for hiking is in the forest.

 

Many mountain trails require a permit to hike the back county. I'm sure there are other examples. Using a "permit" attribute would help filter out those area so that planning can be made ahead of the visit.

[+Don_J]

Here in California the State Parks are really in a mess. Many changes have been taking place. Several "State Parks" are no longer ran by the state but rather by "Land Trust" or "Regional Park" personal. And even that is changing. For example, the nearby Annadel State Park doesn't accept the county's Sonoma Regional Park pass but a couple of years ago Sonoma Regional took over control of the park and the regional pass was ok. However, this year the State took back the park and will no longer accept the regional park pass. Both passes cost a fee.

 

In another area of the county the Hood Mountain Regional Park borders the Sugarloaf State park. Parking on the border has been free until this year. The parking area happens to be on the State Park's land which had been taken over by a group which I've never heard of before. They are now charging for parking at that lot. They won't accept the Regional Pass but will accept the State Park pass for parking. A cache owner must be on top of things and post that $ FEE attribute when needed. This kind of stuff is happening all over the state.

 

Is it required to post "permit required" on cache pages? If so, a lot of emails requesting updates might be in order (for this area). I still think an attribute would help greatly.

 

This kind of stuff is not happening all over the state, unless you are talking about the parking management company that the state has contracted with to collect fees at certain lots through automatic payment machines. Down in the lower part of the state, State Parks run the State Parks and the various regional, open space, and land trust organizations run their own stuff. There has been no swapping of jurisdictions.

 

Are you paying to hike or paying to park? According to the State Park website, it cost $6 to park in Annadel SP, Sugarloaf Ridge SP is $8.

 

What are the two parks that you mentioned that require a permit to hike?

 

Fees are for parking. New parking fee at Sugarloaf is for a parking area over a mile from the main entrance where there is only one trail which quickly connects to a county park. No fees have been collect for parking there until "Team Sugarloaf" took over running the park for the state a few months ago.

 

Willow Creek Park (part of Sonoma Coast Park) required a permit to HIKE. They offer a class every few weeks. The pass is free. I'd like to hike that area but I live 2 hrs away. I am going to take the class but since the morning will be shot in class I'll only have 1/2 day to enjoy the area until I can make that 4 hr round trip again and start at a decent hour for a full day of hiking.

 

The other area needing a pass is actually a state forest - Las Posadas Forest which is much nearer to me. I do have that pass. If you look it up don't be fooled by all the bike trails and comments. Those trails are on college property. The real pretty stuff for hiking is in the forest.

 

Many mountain trails require a permit to hike the back county. I'm sure there are other examples. Using a "permit" attribute would help filter out those area so that planning can be made ahead of the visit.

 

It seems that Team Sugarloaf is a non-profit collective of five organizations that have taken on running the park to keep the state from closing it due to budget cuts. We have a volunteer community group that has done the same thing for my nearby Santa Susana State Historical Park, but they do not collect fees. They just pick up trash, patrol the trails and call the police if necessary as there is no longer a ranger assigned to the park.

 

Thank you for your information. I was not aware that California had a State Forest, which is actually an 80 year old demonstration project. I looked at the States web site for Sonoma Coast Park as well as a few sites for Las Posadas and did not see anything about a permit system for hiking. I would be highly frustrated if I drove from Southern California only to find out at the last minute.

 

Do we need an attribute? I guess one would be nice. Personally, if I placed a cache in such an area, I would have the information in bold red typeface in the cache description.

[+Walts Hunting]

You are assuming that people actually look at attributes. Most run the pq, load the info and head out. I only read the description if I am having a problem finding it and have never looked at an attribute.

 

The amount of attributes has grown considerably with all these requests but I would bet less than 5% actually use them.

[+dprovan]

I prefer that the description specifies what permit is required rather than just have a binary permit/no permit flag, since in most areas it could be one of several. If COs don't put that in their descriptions, I see no reason to think they'll set the attribute.

 

In my experience, this doesn't turn out to be quite as big a deal as I expected. The restricted areas are out of the way, so anyone serious enough to hike there is likely to check a map where the permit requirements are marked. And the worst case isn't much of a tragedy: you get to a gate and realize you can't hike in for that cache. I'd rather that that didn't happen, of course, but it's not the end of the world if it does. If I'm coming back, I'll know to get a permit for next time.

 

Sorry for sidestepping, but I am in a bit of a shock. Coming from a country where you have the right to hike and camp about everywhere (private or government owned) in forrested area I am suprised to learn that you have to get a permit and pay a fee to hike in state parks in US.

I can imagine how this might be seem shocking to you, but it's the result of the stance that the government cannot force someone to allow people onto their private property. It's hard for me to imagine the opposite.