Advice: The angry Individual

[Team Total Perspective Vortex]

Here is a brief set-up.

 

Pulled a cache from the website.

Proceeded to park on opposite side of public road not 30 feet from a geocache.

Walked straight to cache, which was in the end of a guardrail. At no time did I or any of the 3 kids I have with me go more than 2 feet from guardrail. In fact we mostly stood in the road while logging.

 

An angry Male approached us and demanded to know what we were doing there. I calmly explained we were geocaching(kids present) and asked him if he knew what that was.

He was angry that the cache was on his property(guardrail) on side of public road. I explained I was not the owner of the cache nor did I want to argue about whose property a guardrail was on. He told me he would remove the cache. I said that was his business. He then proceeded to throw the cache away into the woods opposite road.

 

Fast forward about an hour...we were done caching and had to drive by this persons house on a main road(cache was on side road).

 

Of course he is outside and sees us go by....he jumps on his motorcycle and follows us for about a mile till I stop at a light. He then proceeds to verbally try and start a fight. I pretend I don't know him and Compliment him on his Bike(Honda.lol)

He then tells me I need to watch myself.

At no time did I provoke him mainly because I had kids with me.

 

My main question is this..Should I have called the police? Would it matter to have reported it?

 

How should I have handled it...how would most have handled it.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Team Total Perspective Vortex

[+mom2sage]

I would have called the police when he followed me.

Make sure that you write a note to the cache owner that it is gone (if you have not done so). Who knew geocaching was so scary?

[+giddeanx]

Here is a brief set-up.

 

Pulled a cache from the website.

Proceeded to park on opposite side of public road not 30 feet from a geocache.

Walked straight to cache, which was in the end of a guardrail. At no time did I or any of the 3 kids I have with me go more than 2 feet from guardrail. In fact we mostly stood in the road while logging.

 

An angry Male approached us and demanded to know what we were doing there. I calmly explained we were geocaching(kids present) and asked him if he knew what that was.

He was angry that the cache was on his property(guardrail) on side of public road. I explained I was not the owner of the cache nor did I want to argue about whose property a guardrail was on. He told me he would remove the cache. I said that was his business. He then proceeded to throw the cache away into the woods opposite road.

 

Fast forward about an hour...we were done caching and had to drive by this persons house on a main road(cache was on side road).

 

Of course he is outside and sees us go by....he jumps on his motorcycle and follows us for about a mile till I stop at a light. He then proceeds to verbally try and start a fight. I pretend I don't know him and Compliment him on his Bike(Honda.lol)

He then tells me I need to watch myself.

At no time did I provoke him mainly because I had kids with me.

 

My main question is this..Should I have called the police? Would it matter to have reported it?

 

How should I have handled it...how would most have handled it.

If you still feel threatened or fear injury to you or your children, report it to the police. Let them decide how and if to pursue it. Probably should also post a needs archived log with a good description to the CO, before someone else meets Mr.GrumpyPants

Edited September 7, 2013 by giddeanx

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

We second the recommendation of alerting the Cache Owner of the potential problem with this person (location) -- not forgetting about his now missing cache placement.

 

As far as the police goes... your decision on that. They cannot do much after the fact, unless there was physical contact.

[+MartyBartfast]

You could have pointed out to the guy that he knows absolutely nothing about you, but you know where he lives... Then just as you're driving away suggest he makes sure his fire insurance is up to date, followed by a maniacal laugh

 

But seriously, if you felt threatened then you are well within your rights to complain to the Police. Also post a NA log on the cache page explaining what happened and that the cache is nolonger there.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I would post a needs archive with explanation and also talk to the local police about what happened. It's one thing to get angry about the cache but chasing after you and threatening you crossed the line.

[+Mudfrog]

I would post a needs archive with explanation and also talk to the local police about what happened. It's one thing to get angry about the cache but chasing after you and threatening you crossed the line.

 

I agree with both these. The police probably can't do much at this point but at least there will be a report made which could help in case any future altercations are encountered with this individual.

[+Manville Possum]

If it were me and my children? I would have called the poor fool an ambulance after my kids were done with him.

[Clan Riffster]

Unless I missed something, the angry dude did not threaten you. As far as I can tell, based on the limited data available, he committed no crime. Naturally, you can still report it to the police, but based on what you posted, I wouldn't expect them to take any punitive action. I think you've already done the right thing by explaining what you were doing, and trying to calm the situation, then leaving when prudent.

[+giddeanx]

Unless I missed something, the angry dude did not threaten you. As far as I can tell, based on the limited data available, he committed no crime. Naturally, you can still report it to the police, but based on what you posted, I wouldn't expect them to take any punitive action. I think you've already done the right thing by explaining what you were doing, and trying to calm the situation, then leaving when prudent.

Might be something like 3rd degree menacing all depends on local laws. That's why you let the police decide.

[team tisri]

Here is a brief set-up.

 

Pulled a cache from the website.

Proceeded to park on opposite side of public road not 30 feet from a geocache.

Walked straight to cache, which was in the end of a guardrail. At no time did I or any of the 3 kids I have with me go more than 2 feet from guardrail. In fact we mostly stood in the road while logging.

 

An angry Male approached us and demanded to know what we were doing there. I calmly explained we were geocaching(kids present) and asked him if he knew what that was.

He was angry that the cache was on his property(guardrail) on side of public road. I explained I was not the owner of the cache nor did I want to argue about whose property a guardrail was on. He told me he would remove the cache. I said that was his business. He then proceeded to throw the cache away into the woods opposite road.

 

Fast forward about an hour...we were done caching and had to drive by this persons house on a main road(cache was on side road).

 

Of course he is outside and sees us go by....he jumps on his motorcycle and follows us for about a mile till I stop at a light. He then proceeds to verbally try and start a fight. I pretend I don't know him and Compliment him on his Bike(Honda.lol)

He then tells me I need to watch myself.

At no time did I provoke him mainly because I had kids with me.

 

My main question is this..Should I have called the police? Would it matter to have reported it?

 

How should I have handled it...how would most have handled it.

 

Call the police with his numberplate and where he lives.

 

If he's verbally trying to start a fight that alone could be enough to count as an offence under your local laws. If nothing else the guy's a nutter who needs a talking to by the police. Even if you only do it for his sake on the basis the next guy he does it to might not be as nice about it as you are.

 

If he makes a habit of it then sooner or later he's going to encounter someone who doesn't take kindly to being treated like that and pulls a weapon on him. If you live in an area with something like the Stand Your Ground laws he could easily get himself shot.

[+SwineFlew]

Call the police... thats stalking and harassment of what hes doing. Hes taking things into his own hands and plus, he was littering as well. (he threw the cache in the woods)

[+nthacker66]

Call the police... thats stalking and harassment of what hes doing. Hes taking things into his own hands and plus, he was littering as well. (he threw the cache in the woods)

 

Do explain how he was stalking or harassing, swineflew...other than the guy just being an angry person, he didn't do anything wrong.

 

Best thing you can do is alert the CO to get the cache away from the guys property so the next folks who try to go for it don't get hurt (the guy may pull a gun next time(0. Again, another reason NOT to do GRC's r near someone property

[Team Total Perspective Vortex]

Thanks all for the advice....

 

The first thing I did was log a needs maintenance with explanation.

 

Technically, besides saying I should watch myself..he never did legally threaten.

 

What it comes down to is the usual scenario when we are confronted in our vehicles....we feel helpless. ..If someone can be so angry about a geocache on a guardrail next to a public road what else will they do.If the person was upset about other cachers in the past trespassing I could understand that but should have communicated that to me not lashed out of me.

 

I love geocaching...I love the fact that it is a clean healthy hobby....but God help me.....I have had so many hassles geocaching. I can't even take my kids out for a few quick caches without some crap happening.....Is it just New Jersey or has the whole world started to crumble.

 

TTPV

[+T.D.M.22]

Id have told him to go have relations with himself, or to hide the cache somewhere on his body that don't smell to good. Well not in such a nice way Some Americans would exercise their

 

 

That's probably not for you, though. Just lock doors and drive away, ignore him. Now if someone actually follows you home, that's another story.

 

Contact the CO. You could call the police, I wouldn't unless he really ticked me off. And with some of the cops I know, they'd ticket him for littering (Like the flying pig said) if nothing else.

Edited September 7, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[+nthacker66]

i think its just jersey ;-) i am originally from the tri state area ad would be much more careful where i cache when I am up that way. again, soe places up there shouldn't have hides at all. You should really focus on areas where there arent caches close to property lines.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Thanks all for the advice....

 

The first thing I did was log a needs maintenance with explanation.

 

I'd change that to a needs archive. Whether or not the cache is on his property or not, I really wouldn't want to potentially subject other geocachers to his abuse.

 

 

[+Manville Possum]

Thanks all for the advice....

 

The first thing I did was log a needs maintenance with explanation.

 

Technically, besides saying I should watch myself..he never did legally threaten.

 

What it comes down to is the usual scenario when we are confronted in our vehicles....we feel helpless. ..If someone can be so angry about a geocache on a guardrail next to a public road what else will they do.If the person was upset about other cachers in the past trespassing I could understand that but should have communicated that to me not lashed out of me.

 

I love geocaching...I love the fact that it is a clean healthy hobby....but God help me.....I have had so many hassles geocaching. I can't even take my kids out for a few quick caches without some crap happening.....Is it just New Jersey or has the whole world started to crumble.

 

TTPV

We caches last week along the Hatfield ~ McCoy geotrail in Kentucky and West Virginia. We met some of the most friendly people that I have ever encountered. These people allowed geocache placements on their private property in their back yards with "Visitors Welcome" signs posted in their driveways. I signed two guest registers along the HMGT and found 5 Lab caches where one of the locals was dressed in character of Chief of Police Sid Hatfield telling the history about the 1920 battle in the historic town dubbed the Matewan Massacre. Your post has gave me just a little more Hillbilly Pride about the people in the region I call home. Guardrail hides are banned in my home State of Virginia, it may not be a bad act to follow.

[Team Total Perspective Vortex]

Added "Needed to be archived" to cache log wouldn't let me change needs maintenance.

 

 

The funny thing is..this wasn't a new cache it's been there for years.

I do suppose they could be new home owners....

 

The one thing I wish more cache placers would do is explain in more detail what some of the obstacles are for a cache(not in this case because it was a public road). On a public guardrail.

 

Maybe what I really need is some bad geocaching Karma remove tool! LOL...Please send some good mojo my way please.

 

TTPV

Edited September 7, 2013 by Team Total Perspective Vortex

[+kunarion]

If the person was upset about other cachers in the past trespassing I could understand that but should have communicated that to me

There was once a guy who squared off in the street at me as I tried to find a cache at the end of a cul-de-sac, and he told me that "kids hang out and deal drugs there", that he watches the spot due to past problems. He had never heard of "Geocachers". So I just explained what I was doing, and since I was in a greenspace and not much of drug dealer (and a one person drug deal is kind of unusual ), it wasn't too hard to calm the situation.

 

In your case, who knows. But it's important to be respectful and careful about Geocaching in residential neighborhoods, regardless of where the property line is. You may have to plan your cache hunts more carefully if you end up with people chasing you down.

[+Manville Possum]

Thanks all for the advice....

 

The first thing I did was log a needs maintenance with explanation.

 

I'd change that to a needs archive. Whether or not the cache is on his property or not, I really wouldn't want to potentially subject other geocachers to his abuse.

From reading the past logs of GC1BWXF that was placed in 2008 by a group of geocachers that have not signed into their account in the last 5 months, I would post a NA. The OP has confirmed the cache is missing and the property owner is hostile about the cache placement.

[+Dogmeat*]

I would have called the police. Following you and then saying to "watch yourself" is an implied threat, and at the very least he'll have some words with the police and hopefully learn to act civilized instead of an unevolved POS. All of that over a container on a guard rail. Some people need to be medicated.

[+KazumiSun]

I would have called the police when he followed me.

Make sure that you write a note to the cache owner that it is gone (if you have not done so). Who knew geocaching was so scary?

always call the police if you feel your children could be harm.

[Clan Riffster]

I would have called the police. Following you and then saying to "watch yourself" is an implied threat, and at the very least he'll have some words with the police and hopefully learn to act civilized instead of an unevolved POS. All of that over a container on a guard rail. Some people need to be medicated.

Why would the police talk to him? I've been some flavor of law enforcement since 1982. As a general rule, we don't go bothering citizens who are accused of not committing crimes. I imagine the conversation would go something along the lines of, "Hello Mr Angry, I'm Deputy Riffster from the Guardrail County Sheriff's Office. We received a complaint today that you broke no laws. Would you be willing to speak to me about your non criminal behavior?"

[+Dogmeat*]

I'm sorry you always have to strut around these boards as if you know all and see all. I hear acting constantly aggressive over small things ages you horribly. You should consider getting help with that.

 

In any situation I've seen, an implied threat such as "you better watch yourself" is followed up with the police saying "Hey, stop that." Especially if this was brought on by a previous engagement where the person acted aggressively for absolutely no reason, and then proceeded to follow you to consider the aggressive harassment.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I'm sorry you always have to strut around these boards as if you know all and see all. I hear acting constantly aggressive over small things ages you horribly. You should consider getting help with that.

 

In any situation I've seen, an implied threat such as "you better watch yourself" is followed up with the police saying "Hey, stop that." Especially if this was brought on by a previous engagement where the person acted aggressively for absolutely no reason, and then proceeded to follow you to consider the aggressive harassment.

But... saying something and doing something are two entirely different things.

 

Threatening actions without the apparent means to carry them out, or the outward attempt to carry them out is nothing, with one (and only one) exception that I am aware of (in the U.S.).

Stalking was mentioned... but following is not necessarily stalking -- it could be, but it is usually defined further as "continued following and/or continued attempts to..." (communicate, threaten, pursue, annoy -- many differing words). I do not see what was described as "stalking".

 

Would this be a "reportable" offense to the authorities? Only the OP can truly answer that, and it appears he already has.

Would/could any viable steps have been taken by authorities to rectify the matter? I doubt it. Sure, had the police "confronted" the suspect about the incident, he could very well have done something further to entice his stay in the cross-bar hotel... but not for what he did in contact with the OP, more-so for his later actions involving the police. The original incident would suddenly have become a moot point.

 

It appears as though this matter is (peaceably) resolved, the cache has been marked logged as NA (with good reason).

 

All is well.

[+ipodguy]

I'm glad you got out of there without getting into trouble with that crazy guy.

 

I had some tough guy actually follow me home a couple of days ago. Of course, he drove off when I got out of my truck with a baseball bat.

[+wmpastor]

I'm glad you got out of there without getting into trouble with that crazy guy.

 

I had some tough guy actually follow me home a couple of days ago. Of course, he drove off when I got out of my truck with a baseball bat.

Wow, now that's a story to tell. And it's on-topic - the incident in the first post was only an example of the "dealing-with-angry-people" theme.

[+Manville Possum]

I'm glad you got out of there without getting into trouble with that crazy guy.

 

I had some tough guy actually follow me home a couple of days ago. Of course, he drove off when I got out of my truck with a baseball bat.

I would have stopped at someone else's house. Now he knows where you live and you are armed with a bat.

I had a guy give me the truck drivers salute a few days ago, seems he had a case of road rage. We just pulled off of the highway ASAP and let the driver go on. Then racked a round in the .12 gauge and pulled back on the road a few min's later.

[+ItTakesAThief]

I too had similar situation, not so bad though, I had taken my nephew who is 10 years old geocaching a couple weeks ago, out in country on country roads...(I'm a woman of course)and we stopped along roadside..walked across the street, found the cache was signing log when i saw massive dust on road across the street and truck pulling out on the road...young shirtless man got out stood by his truck,,stairing at us the whole time...we walked back to truck, got in , He was still watching beside his truck...I pulled away went ahead and had to turn around, so I just waved as I went by.....(the man glaring)....kinda scary when out in the country...I have no idea who it was.....Nothing was said....by any of us....What the best way to handle these situations when alone.....?????? Have a feeling I stumbled upon someone's weed farm or something..

Edited September 8, 2013 by ItTakesAThief

[+WarNinjas]

Wow some people just suck! I am very mellow probibly to much so. It takes a lot to get me fired up but If the guy took the cache and threw it into the woods I think I might have lost it at that point, As I am explaining it to him. I would understand saying he didn't want it there, a bunch of stuff but to take it and throw it? No way. I would not call the cops but I also don't think I could have let him throw a cache I just signed. He could do it later but not in front of me. I just clash with that personality type. You did the right thing with kids there and just get out of there but like you I would have been really mad.

[+dprovan]

How should I have handled it...how would most have handled it.

I don't mean to suggest you did anything wrong, but I'd say the way you should have handled it is to be on his side from the very beginning. Instead of, "You want to remove it? That's your business, buddy!" try, "OMG, this isn't placed with you permission? I'm so sorry. Some people that hide these things are real jerks. I'll take it with me and make sure to tell everyone on the website that it's gone and shouldn't have been here to begin with."

 

That might not have helped, of course, but it's the best bet, and, honestly, it's really how you should feel about the cache no matter how long it's been there and no matter how unclear the property issue is. Someone that lives nearby is very upset about the cache; it doesn't matter whether he owns the guardrail, and it doesn't matter if his anger has nothing to do with geocaching.

 

In practice, supporting him and echoing his concerns are the most likely way to avoid confrontation regardless of how unstable he is, but one thing to keep in mind is that he might really have good reason to be very angry, possibly just with people that coincidentally happen to be there, but possibly really with geocachers and what they do searching for that cache. You just never know. So it's always best to assume he has a good point and listen to what he has to say.

 

At no time did I provoke him mainly because I had kids with me.

Again, I'm just trying to help, but this statement seems to be saying that if only you hadn't had kids with you, you would have loved to provoke him and fight with him. Not that he was reasonable or anything, but I'm wondering if things didn't escalate because he sensed your negative yet repressed reaction.

 

What it comes down to is the usual scenario when we are confronted in our vehicles....we feel helpless. ..If someone can be so angry about a geocache on a guardrail next to a public road what else will they do.If the person was upset about other cachers in the past trespassing I could understand that but should have communicated that to me not lashed out of me.

Some people aren't good at dealing with anger. Angry people often don't stop to think about whether the person they're lashing out at is really the person they should be mad at. That's why the more reasonable party needs to be sympathetic in a way that shows the person that's unhinged that his concerns will be addressed.

 

And remember that there's no god given right to geocache. The community suffers our hobby, so we should be very concerned about any kind of negative reaction instead of trying to minimize their anger.

[+OZ2CPU]

wow first time I hear someone actually got their own private guard rail

he must be very happy about it.

It is really not funny to have a lunatic following you, I hope the kids are ok ?

and feel safe and all that ? spend plenty of time explaining them, there are a few sick people out there,

but luckyly most other people are nice and friendly and it is really fine and safe to be out geocaching.

[+giddeanx]

I too had similar situation, not so bad though, I had taken my nephew who is 10 years old geocaching a couple weeks ago, out in country on country roads...(I'm a woman of course)and we stopped along roadside..walked across the street, found the cache was signing log when i saw massive dust on road across the street and truck pulling out on the road...young shirtless man got out stood by his truck,,stairing at us the whole time...we walked back to truck, got in , He was still watching beside his truck...I pulled away went ahead and had to turn around, so I just waved as I went by.....(the man glaring)....kinda scary when out in the country...I have no idea who it was.....Nothing was said....by any of us....What the best way to handle these situations when alone.....?????? Have a feeling I stumbled upon someone's weed farm or something..

You did the best thing. Calmly leave the situation before anything escalates. My wife works alone in insurance and is often in seedy areas meeting strangers. I have encouraged her on several occasions to buy some pepper spray for her key chain. Thank goodness geocaching is more about avoiding strangers.

 

By the way did you hear any dueling banjos?

Edited September 8, 2013 by giddeanx

[+DonB]

Call the police? In my town that's a joke, the first thing they tell you is if they didn't see it happen they can't do anything about it. I guess I would have just told him to take a hike.

[+J Grouchy]

Unless I missed something, the angry dude did not threaten you. As far as I can tell, based on the limited data available, he committed no crime.

 

He then proceeded to throw the cache away into the woods opposite road.

 

 

...littering...?

Edited September 8, 2013 by J Grouchy

[+ItTakesAThief]

I too had similar situation, not so bad though, I had taken my nephew who is 10 years old geocaching a couple weeks ago, out in country on country roads...(I'm a woman of course)and we stopped along roadside..walked across the street, found the cache was signing log when i saw massive dust on road across the street and truck pulling out on the road...young shirtless man got out stood by his truck,,stairing at us the whole time...we walked back to truck, got in , He was still watching beside his truck...I pulled away went ahead and had to turn around, so I just waved as I went by.....(the man glaring)....kinda scary when out in the country...I have no idea who it was.....Nothing was said....by any of us....What the best way to handle these situations when alone.....?????? Have a feeling I stumbled upon someone's weed farm or something..

You did the best thing. Calmly leave the situation before anything escalates. My wife works alone in insurance and is often in seedy areas meeting strangers. I have encouraged her on several occasions to buy some pepper spray for her key chain. Thank goodness geocaching is more about avoiding strangers.

 

By the way did you hear any dueling banjos?

 

Touchee.....

 

Is there anyway to get Geocaching brochures...to give when these negative situations arise......

[+ItTakesAThief]

Here is a brief set-up.

 

Pulled a cache from the website.

Proceeded to park on opposite side of public road not 30 feet from a geocache.

Walked straight to cache, which was in the end of a guardrail. At no time did I or any of the 3 kids I have with me go more than 2 feet from guardrail. In fact we mostly stood in the road while logging.

 

An angry Male approached us and demanded to know what we were doing there. I calmly explained we were geocaching(kids present) and asked him if he knew what that was.

He was angry that the cache was on his property(guardrail) on side of public road. I explained I was not the owner of the cache nor did I want to argue about whose property a guardrail was on. He told me he would remove the cache. I said that was his business. He then proceeded to throw the cache away into the woods opposite road.

 

Fast forward about an hour...we were done caching and had to drive by this persons house on a main road(cache was on side road).

 

Of course he is outside and sees us go by....he jumps on his motorcycle and follows us for about a mile till I stop at a light. He then proceeds to verbally try and start a fight. I pretend I don't know him and Compliment him on his Bike(Honda.lol)

He then tells me I need to watch myself.

At no time did I provoke him mainly because I had kids with me.

 

My main question is this..Should I have called the police? Would it matter to have reported it?

 

How should I have handled it...how would most have handled it.

 

 

I think you did the right thing, If that is a public road.....he does not own it, it is on county right of way and he is wrong......

[+ShaunEM]

I would have explained to him (either verbally or through physical action) that car > bike.

 

This isn't about geocaching, this is about crazy.

 

Shaun

[4wheelin_fool]

It sounds like he is bipolar or schizophrenic. There is the chance that he just moved there and has a meth lab, or pot plants that he is overly protective of. There is also the chance that he is rather normal, but has been a recent victim of a break in, and thought your behavior didn't make much sense. Over the summer teens tend to rifle through unlocked cars, or maybe there is an active peeping Tom known to be around.

 

The best thing to do if you are being followed is to drive to the police station. Call them if you feel threatened, but if there is no active pursuit, they may not do anything. In some towns a verbal threat may be dismissed as second hand information. Between a motorcycle versus a car, the car is going to win unless he flashes a gun. You may want to drive to the ststion and file an incident report, as you know his address, and his behavior could be indicative of something else more serious going on, but again, that depends on the department of how they handle it. Google earth shows a nice neighborhood, so maybe they would care. There is also the very remote possibility that the cache was placed with the intent of casing the house, and perhaps was used as a alibi for being there. The CO is MIA and the location is highly questionable. There are much better guardrails around.

 

It may not be on his property, but that does not mean that the cache has any right to be there. Common courtesy is to respect nearby landowners and not to force the activity on them. The same goes if it was in his backyard on green acres, but in clear view of the inside of the house. Having a right to walk there is much different than inviting the public to visit. If you don't show any respect, you should not expect to receive it in return.

Edited September 8, 2013 by 4wheelin_fool

[+wimseyguy]

I too had similar situation, not so bad though, I had taken my nephew who is 10 years old geocaching a couple weeks ago, out in country on country roads...(I'm a woman of course)and we stopped along roadside..walked across the street, found the cache was signing log when i saw massive dust on road across the street and truck pulling out on the road...young shirtless man got out stood by his truck,,stairing at us the whole time...we walked back to truck, got in , He was still watching beside his truck...I pulled away went ahead and had to turn around, so I just waved as I went by.....(the man glaring)....kinda scary when out in the country...I have no idea who it was.....Nothing was said....by any of us....What the best way to handle these situations when alone.....?????? Have a feeling I stumbled upon someone's weed farm or something..

You did the best thing. Calmly leave the situation before anything escalates. My wife works alone in insurance and is often in seedy areas meeting strangers. I have encouraged her on several occasions to buy some pepper spray for her key chain. Thank goodness geocaching is more about avoiding strangers.

 

By the way did you hear any dueling banjos?

 

Touchee.....

 

Is there anyway to get Geocaching brochures...to give when these negative situations arise......

 

Brochures and other handouts can be found at Geocacher-U. But I doubt this guy would have been interested in reading material at that time. He probably would have wadded it up and thrown it into the woods too. I don't know the laws in NJ, even though I do have NJ lawyers in my family. But I doubt that anything he did was actually against the law. I do agree with the poster who mentioned that you could have feigned sympathy for the guy and taken the cache with you instead telling him to do what he wanted with it.

 

Best way to avoid jerks like this, especially when caching with your kids, is to talk a walk on some trails or in a park and skip the PnG's. Most kids I know want to see the 'treasure' in the cache anyway, and find roadside caches boring.

[+kunarion]

There is the chance that he just moved there and has a meth lab, or pot plants that he is overly protective of. There is also the chance that he is rather normal, but has been a recent victim of a break in, and thought your behavior didn't make much sense. Over the summer teens tend to rifle through unlocked cars, or maybe there is an active peeping Tom known to be around.

There's a cache in the woods here, in a neighborhood. I don't know whose property it is, but the neighbors did call the police, who arrived to tell me that people use the forest to case houses for burglaries. I guess there's a recent problem at the cache area. But I've seen property lines tend to "expand" far beyond actual property lines, even entire streets posted "Keep Out" when the neighbors don't have the authority to post that. Plus the guy in the story probably is required to mow under that guard rail, even though it isn't his guard rail.

 

There are much better guardrails around.

My guard rail cache is the best one in town! And there are no nutcases guarding it.

Edited September 8, 2013 by kunarion

[+uxorious]

I would have called the police. Following you and then saying to "watch yourself" is an implied threat, and at the very least he'll have some words with the police and hopefully learn to act civilized instead of an unevolved POS. All of that over a container on a guard rail. Some people need to be medicated.

Why would the police talk to him? I've been some flavor of law enforcement since 1982. As a general rule, we don't go bothering citizens who are accused of not committing crimes. I imagine the conversation would go something along the lines of, "Hello Mr Angry, I'm Deputy Riffster from the Guardrail County Sheriff's Office. We received a complaint today that you broke no laws. Would you be willing to speak to me about your non criminal behavior?"

 

"he jumps on his motorcycle and follows us for about a mile till I stop at a light. He then proceeds to verbally try and start a fight."

 

Just how threaten to I have to feel before calling the cops in your area to help stop something before it escalates? The OP has kids in the car, the guy is verbally trying to start a fight. If you can leave the area safely fine, but if you feel the thing could escalate, and your not sure you can avoid a more serious confrontation that's when the cops should be called. You shouldn't have to wait until the guy attacks you or your kids.

 

Maybe it is just where I live, but I see on the news all the time where someone goes ballistic and attacks someone. Often putting them in the hospital, and even had some deaths.

 

At my age and with my physical disabilities I'm not sure I can defend myself these days. I have a conceal carry permit, but wouldn't it be far better if I could call the police to defuse the situation?

 

I pray I never have to shot someone, but I also do not want to end up like that WW11 vet in Spokane that was beat to death, or that guy in Spanaway a couple months ago that was beat nearly to death.

[+kunarion]

I would have called the police. Following you and then saying to "watch yourself" is an implied threat, and at the very least he'll have some words with the police and hopefully learn to act civilized instead of an unevolved POS. All of that over a container on a guard rail. Some people need to be medicated.

Why would the police talk to him? I've been some flavor of law enforcement since 1982. As a general rule, we don't go bothering citizens who are accused of not committing crimes. I imagine the conversation would go something along the lines of, "Hello Mr Angry, I'm Deputy Riffster from the Guardrail County Sheriff's Office. We received a complaint today that you broke no laws. Would you be willing to speak to me about your non criminal behavior?"

 

"he jumps on his motorcycle and follows us for about a mile till I stop at a light. He then proceeds to verbally try and start a fight."

 

Just how threaten to I have to feel before calling the cops in your area to help stop something before it escalates? The OP has kids in the car, the guy is verbally trying to start a fight. If you can leave the area safely fine, but if you feel the thing could escalate, and your not sure you can avoid a more serious confrontation that's when the cops should be called. You shouldn't have to wait until the guy attacks you or your kids.

 

I think so, too. But the time for calling 911 is upon being followed, not waiting to see what happens when he catches up. And make a beeline for a police station or a fire department.

 

But just from reading the OP's side of the story, I might also hop on my motorcycle to go tell them "you better watch yourself". Meh. Maybe not. And that neighbor throwing the container away makes things worse. It should be archived. But the angry neighbor seems like a pretty good finder. Maybe he should try Geocaching. Being able to hop on that bike at a moment's notice, he can get some FTFs.

[Clan Riffster]

I'm sorry you always have to strut around these boards as if you know all and see all. I hear acting constantly aggressive over small things ages you horribly. You should consider getting help with that.

 

In any situation I've seen, an implied threat such as "you better watch yourself" is followed up with the police saying "Hey, stop that." Especially if this was brought on by a previous engagement where the person acted aggressively for absolutely no reason, and then proceeded to follow you to consider the aggressive harassment.

I'm sorry you feel threatened by those folks who offer opinions on their area of expertise. If it will make you feel better, I will try offering my thoughts on particle physics, string theory and making okra edible, all of which are topics I know nothing about. I would hate to be the cause of your self esteem being bruised.

 

I'm curious though. If you were washing your car, and a cop pulled up and said, "Hey, stop that.", would you be receptive to that command? In both scenarios, the officer in question would be giving orders, telling free citizens to cease their lawful behavior.

[+wimseyguy]

<snip>

I'm sorry you feel threatened by those folks who offer opinions on their area of expertise. If it will make you feel better, I will try offering my thoughts on particle physics, string theory and making okra edible, all of which are topics I know nothing about. I would hate to be the cause of your self esteem being bruised. <snip>

 

Oh puhleeze, even someone who has 'been some flavor of law enforcement since 1982' and presumably spent all of those years below the Mason Dixon line and north of South Beach knows that all you need to do is fry it until golden brown and serve it with a spicy mayo based sauce.

[Clan Riffster]

<snip>

I'm sorry you feel threatened by those folks who offer opinions on their area of expertise. If it will make you feel better, I will try offering my thoughts on particle physics, string theory and making okra edible, all of which are topics I know nothing about. I would hate to be the cause of your self esteem being bruised. <snip>

 

Oh puhleeze, even someone who has 'been some flavor of law enforcement since 1982' and presumably spent all of those years below the Mason Dixon line and north of South Beach knows that all you need to do is fry it until golden brown and serve it with a spicy mayo based sauce.

You just described how most of my relatives cook that foul vegetable.

[+BlueDeuce]

 

I'm curious though. If you were washing your car, and a cop pulled up and said, "Hey, stop that.", would you be receptive to that command? In both scenarios, the officer in question would be giving orders, telling free citizens to cease their lawful behavior.

 

With the type of threat the OP mentioned I would immediately contact Law Enforcement to be the mediator. Right or wrong, confrontation is a red flag. I would never suggest the next cacher can deal with it better than the authorities.

[+tozainamboku]

I'm sorry you always have to strut around these boards as if you know all and see all. I hear acting constantly aggressive over small things ages you horribly. You should consider getting help with that.

 

In any situation I've seen, an implied threat such as "you better watch yourself" is followed up with the police saying "Hey, stop that." Especially if this was brought on by a previous engagement where the person acted aggressively for absolutely no reason, and then proceeded to follow you to consider the aggressive harassment.

You have to remember that in the area where Riffster is a law enforcement officer that the angry individual could use deadly force on a cacher who is threatening his guard rail and say he was "standing his ground" and not be guilty of any crime.

[+geodarts]

Just how threaten to I have to feel before calling the cops in your area to help stop something before it escalates?

 

In the past week, a couple blocks from where I live, the police dealt with a dispute at a senior housing center because someone who was a guest of a resident was using the laundry. They also responded to a call because there was a suspicious looking person wearing a colored vest at an electrical box. As it turned out, the latter was not a geocacher but an actual utility worker.

 

I would think that a situation where someone has followed a person and used threatening language would be a better use of their time. But it also could be that by the time they responded, either the angry person or the innocent cacher probably would have left -- leaving them little to do. So I would do what the OP did: compliment the guy's bike and drive on. Actually, I might not have thought about the compliment. That was a good move.

Edited September 9, 2013 by geodarts