Why do we use log books?

[+Planet]

Simple answer. No. A big resounding no. There's a game you can play if you want to use QR codes. But here we use logbooks.

I've got one I get real compliments on.

A QR code can't do that.

[+Walts Hunting]

There's a big negative to using QR codes. The log book is proof that the logger was actually at the scene. QR codes will start showing up in sheets at events where people will log them without going there. A physical log is the only definitive proof of presence.

[+JL_HSTRE]

QR codes could cut down on bogus logs if combined with GPS (so QR codes can just be photographed and passed around).

[+L0ne.R]

 

To have the ability to log using a QR code (smart phone) or as you do now is called progress

 

Why? What advantages does logging with a QR code have over physical logs?

 

Perhaps the OP considers not leaving a comment an advantage. Scan and go.

 

And possibly as a cache owner the advantage would be less maintenance visits to replace a logbook. But if that's the case, one should keep in mind that QR codes don't last forever - they could get damaged or lost or removed (either accidentally or on purpose). Also, QR codes can't be tiny, too small and many phones can't scan them, which means you can't use them in most micros (film canister, spice jar, pill bottle, preform, nanos). You can't curl or fold them either to get them to fit in a film canister, many phones can't scan them unless they are flat, and folding them can wreck the code. You can't put a qr code in a nano. You will need a logbook/sheet as a backup for a qr code that won't scan, or goes missing, and for those people who don't have a smartphone or a data plan. They really are rather limited in their use.

[+L0ne.R]

QR codes could cut down on bogus logs if combined with GPS (so QR codes can just be photographed and passed around).

 

Only if everyone is forced to use QR codes to log a find. If QR codes were introduced I'm sure there would still be a log requirement for those people who don't have smartphones with data plans. If alternative methods of logging are still applicable, bogus logs would not be deterred.

[+T.D.M.22]

Again-QR codes have their place, and can be useful. And changing to QR logging is progress. However-how is it better? Explain to me how it is better.

 

Logging from the app, just gives us a new way to do the same thing. It gets logged either way. You can say as much or as little as you want, either way. And even before smartphones, I had a phone that could use the internet, so I could log in the field if I felt like it. However the difference between a QR code and a signature- Well, if I scan the code, does my name magically appear in the cache? What's to stop someone from completing a difficult cache, and copying the code, so all I have to do is scan it from the comfort of my home. And what happens if the code is can't be scanned?

 

Again-all I have seen to back up this idea is that it is progress. I am sure we can all agree on that-but I have yet to see how it is better. So-I dare you to tell my how it is better. You can't? That's what I thought...

[+niraD]

QR codes could cut down on bogus logs if combined with GPS (so QR codes can just be photographed and passed around).

The Munzee app has been hacked. Groundspeak's QR code app would be hacked too.

 

Perhaps the OP considers not leaving a comment an advantage. Scan and go.

If I wanted to, I could add a "signature" to my current app, and then I could post that default text as my entire log with just a few taps of the screen.

 

Or is this a revival of the old suggestion to make the log text completely optional, so lazy geocachers can get their +1 without any log text at all visible to others?

[+Planet]

Another thing, and this conversation just happened in another forum. How lazy can we get? I hide caches so other people can have an adventure. And I want to hear about it. All these smartphone apps are causing more and more "TFTC" or "Found it" or worse, "" logs. No story, nothing about how hard it was, how easy it was, how fun it was. I might as well archive the cache. Because I don't want to read a log that I can take in in the blink of an eye. Why bother even logging my cache at all?! It tells me they don't care how much time and effort I put into my hide.

Here is my post from the other forum.

 

Now, when I get a log from the likes of RobDJr, well it makes my day, I fall in love with with his writing, and I'm proud that I know him and have cached with him. And he writes the most awesome logs!

 

Like this one:

Found it

 

I dreamed Ahab dreams. Dreams dark and grim, of blood and steel, of violence and fury, of black water and white foam. I awoke drenched in cold sweat, shouts and screams fading in my mind. Today, for better or for worse, I would see the end of my feud with this cache. For better or for worse, it would be done. For better or for worse, this day, this cache, the end.

 

When I left the house, I glanced at the old tool bench, at my Father’s masonry hammer hanging where he had left it. It has a three pound head and a wooden handle polished smooth by nearly three decades of contact with his rough and calloused hands. For a fleeting moment I thought of bringing it; that hammer would make a magnificent dent in an ammo can.

 

But no, as much as the thought appealed (and oh did it appeal), the hammer had been my Father’s tool of choice. For precision and creation or for glorious destruction, he had swung it with a practiced and seemingly careless ease. I would use my own tool of choice, the one he had never quite understood and at times barely seemed to accept. On this day, I would create or destroy by wit and by word. And I would only hope to achieve the same magnificence of creation and destruction as I had witnessed from a calloused hand and an old hammer. Careless ease be damned.

 

I arrived at the parking area early. I was meeting others, but first there was something I wanted to do. Something I needed to do, alone. I sat in my car, watching and in my own way, listening. I watched leaves flutter in the breeze, and a bright red cardinal hopping from tree to tree. I watched the brook swirl and splash, from time to time throwing brilliant lances of reflected sunlight. I watched people come and go, I watched, I waited, I listened.

 

At length I became aware of what I had been searching for, at first faint and indistinct, not quite a sound and not quite a vibration but a tremor of sorts, a disturbance. It slowly grew clearer and more distinct as I became attuned to it, a gentle and steady thubba-thud, thubba-thud. I smiled to myself. Beat, black heart, beat! In the depths of my soul, Ahab howled with glee.

 

Then Reno8 arrived, and shortly after, Planet and the Mann. Upon sight of Planet, Ahab cut loose another primal scream of joy. With Planet’s presence the playing field was leveled as it had never been before.. For the first time ever, I had a true shot at this beast. I felt an Ahabbian glimmer growing in my eyes, and a hunger in my soul soon to be sated.

 

Small wonder I had never had success with this one before. All Planet did was get us as close as a GPS unit would, nothing more. But that was five hundred feet closer than I had ever gotten before, five hundred impossible and immeasurable feet. I have no idea how that cache accomplished this, that wily and treacherous beast, but the coordinates had been skewed. Another score to be settled, and settled soon.

 

Stage two fell quickly, despite a fair amount of bounce that gave us some difficulty. But stage three was once again nearly impossible. The thubba-thud had now accelerated to a quick and steady thudda-thudda; the foul beast was now aware, was now resisting. Eventually, Reno8 put a call through to Planet (who by that time was probably floating happily along in her kayak up on the pond). It quickly became clear that dark forces and evil will were once again warping the coordinates and leading us further, leading us away. I imagine that Planet gave a small sigh as this vexatious cache intruded into her bubble of kayaking bliss, but she gave the playing field a solid kick and it was once again level. The third stage fell and with it Ahab lapsed into dangerous silence.

 

It took him two logs to finish:

 

Write note

 

(cont'd)

 

As we approached the final, I could only grit my teeth and share Ahab’s wave of frustrated angst. Two weeks earlier Reno8 and I had given up on the search at pseudo-stage one and I had theorized on potential locations for the final. We had tried and failed. We had been less than one hundred feet away from glory. Gaaaaaah!

 

Shortly thereafter, I saw Reno8 signaling the find. I had (and barely suppressed) the urge to shout out, You hold ‘im down now, Reno! Don’t let ‘im get 'way! It was now over three years since my first attempt. It was now over.

 

I don’t really know what I expected. A defiant and unrepentant hellion at the least, or more likely a ravening, slavering beast lunging against steel chains as it hurled undecipherable obscenities couched in clouds of spittle. A battle, definitely, a counting of fingers afterwards, smudges and droplets of blood next to the signatures in the vanquished logbook.

 

But what I found was a meek and unassuming ammo can. Most incongruous of all was the smiley face on the side, as if the ammo can was (with wide and innocent eyes) saying, You were looking for me? Why didn’t you just say so? I’ve been here the whooooooole time! For a moment I wanted to smack that ammo can, but then all I could do was smile. Even Ahab couldn’t rouse himself to follow through on any of his vows of rage and blood.

 

I think I understand now exactly how Dorothy felt when she went behind the curtain and found not a towering, all-knowing, all-powerful figure of mystery but a short, fat, balding, middle-aged man…

 

Many thanks to Planet for her patience and graciousness throughout the whole ordeal, most especially in leveling the field. And to Reno8 for providing some great company and a much-needed willingness to shoulder some of the burdens of frustration. SL, TNLN, and TFTC!

 

Now that, my friend, is why I hide caches!

[+The Laird of Balmalcolm]

Again-QR codes have their place, and can be useful. And changing to QR logging is progress. However-how is it better? Explain to me how it is better.

 

Logging from the app, just gives us a new way to do the same thing. It gets logged either way. You can say as much or as little as you want, either way. And even before smartphones, I had a phone that could use the internet, so I could log in the field if I felt like it. However the difference between a QR code and a signature- Well, if I scan the code, does my name magically appear in the cache? What's to stop someone from completing a difficult cache, and copying the code, so all I have to do is scan it from the comfort of my home. And what happens if the code is can't be scanned?

 

Again-all I have seen to back up this idea is that it is progress. I am sure we can all agree on that-but I have yet to see how it is better. So-I dare you to tell my how it is better. You can't? That's what I thought...

 

"...............

Goodness me, Slow down and take a chill pill.

I did think that this Forum was open to all to have their say. How wrong can I be ?

Please read my posts,

It was only a suggestion and as yet I don't have the power to make changes to Geocaching.com.

How many logbooks have you changed because they were wet, damp, full (micro?) or even missing ?

I have done lots and will continue to do it. My post was about adding another way to log your find.

A QR code stuck to the inside of a box could be tied to that location by a GPS location ... The player could take a photograph of the QR code but would not be able to

log it out with the fixed area. If someone did find a way to do it, so what ? They are only cheating themselves it won't affect me or my pocket. The paper logbook would

Still be there for players to leave their comments or not as seems to be the way of things.

I have been Leterboxing then Geocaching for a lot of years and do feel I'm entitled to my say without seeing replys like above.

If you had come to me for employment you would have failed on the third question at the interview;-

3.. How do you accept change and new technology ?

 

Please read my posts with an open mind and remember we are all different and in different parts of this small world.

Keep smiling and remember its only a game.

[+niraD]

How many logbooks have you changed because they were wet, damp, full (micro?) or even missing ?

So in addition to physical logs that can go missing or become unusable, we could have QR codes that can go missing or become unusable. Plus, the QR codes would require a smartphone with a special app (in an attempt to enforce the GPS location).

 

How is this an improvement over physical logs?

 

I have been Leterboxing then Geocaching for a lot of years and do feel I'm entitled to my say without seeing replys like above.

Oh, wait, by asking that question, was I infringing upon your entitlement to not see replies like the one above?

[+T.D.M.22]

 

"...............

Goodness me, Slow down and take a chill pill.

I did think that this Forum was open to all to have their say. How wrong can I be ?

Please read my posts,..*SNIP

 

-This is open for us to have our say-I never said you couldn't.

-You said you had made a suggestion-I am asking you to defend it. You obviously think it has some merit. I disagree and have pointed out why-you however have not said why it was better, other than progress.

-How many logbooks I have changed? Well I have not kept track, but I do change them in my hometown if I have a spare with me. If I don't plan on caching, I might not have any. If I am traveling, it depends on how much other stuff I have if I carry my geocaching supplies, or just use my phone.

-The code being tied to the location, well the biggest argument is that it cuts down on false logs, because some think it is perfect-however the system can be beat, Unlike a logbook, where you either have your name in it or not(This too can be cheated, but there is not fancy location checking, or networks going down, to affect htis. Your name is in it, or it's not.)

-You have said you too, think that the actual logbook should still be there. Well then nothing will be changed. It is possible to incorporate a QR to take you directly to the cache page to log the find. Very simple to do it really. So the only difference is that Groundspeak would officially endorse this, and maybe add it to the app, using existing software-but like many things it can be part of the game without being official(FTF for example)

-

...feel I'm entitled to my say without seeing replys like above. ...

So you want to voice your opinion, but don't think I should be able to voice mine? Again I have given reason why I have formed my opinion(which is that QR codes are not better, so why use them?) and have yet, after asking twice already seen an reply on why the are better. Progress, and making use of the technology, just to do so, doesn't make it better.

-

3.. How do you accept change and new technology?[in relation to the game]...

I will openly accept any change that makes the game better. I see any change for the sake of change useless.

 

 

In short all I am asking is for someone to explain to me why using a QR would make geocaching better.

I understand one advantage is that it may make logging a cache faster-but does that really matter after you've spent 5, 10, 30 minutes, or even made multiple trips to find the cache?

Edited December 20, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[+niraD]

In short all I am asking is for someone to explain to me why using a QR would make geocaching better.

I understand one advantage is that it may make logging a cache faster-but does that really matter after you've spent 5, 10, 30 minutes, or even made multiple trips to find the cache?

I'm not convinced that QR codes would even make logging a cache faster. Logging a cache via a QR code will take at least a couple taps of the screen, plus I'll need to point one of the cameras at the QR code, frame the QR code in the viewfinder, and wait for the app to process the QR code. And there's always the chance that the app will think I'm too far away from the CO's coordinates, and will reject the log.

 

The way things are now, I can post an online log with default text with only 4 taps of the screen:

Menu > Log > Log Online > Submit Log Entry

And I don't need to worry about the app rejecting my log because it thinks I'm too far away from the CO's coordinates.

[+JohnCNA]

In short all I am asking is for someone to explain to me why using a QR would make geocaching better.

I understand one advantage is that it may make logging a cache faster-but does that really matter after you've spent 5, 10, 30 minutes, or even made multiple trips to find the cache?

I'm not convinced that QR codes would even make logging a cache faster. Logging a cache via a QR code will take at least a couple taps of the screen, plus I'll need to point one of the cameras at the QR code, frame the QR code in the viewfinder, and wait for the app to process the QR code. And there's always the chance that the app will think I'm too far away from the CO's coordinates, and will reject the log.

 

The way things are now, I can post an online log with default text with only 4 taps of the screen:

Menu > Log > Log Online > Submit Log Entry

And I don't need to worry about the app rejecting my log because it thinks I'm too far away from the CO's coordinates.

As a known gadget lover, I get interested in any new application of technology. But I can only see one use of a QR code in a cache and that might be to cut down on false logs. A verification that you actually found the cache.

 

As for the claim that it would make posting a log quicker, no way. I use CacheSense to do my field logging and it takes a total of 2 taps to post an online log if I'm willing to accept the software-generated log text. Scanning a QR code would be 'cool' but would actually take considerably longer.

[+Planet]

Same log on every single cache? Boring!

[+Sapience Trek]

I think we've gone way beyond the "Getting Started" subsection here. If you'd like to continue the QR code discussion, please do so in the "General Discussions" section of the forums, as long as the discussion doesn't talk of the merits and negatives of other listing sites. Thanks.