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Reviewers own rules to approve a new cache.


Reefs

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Hi geocachers from all over the world.

 

I'm pretty new to this gps treasure hunting game and I have a question for you all. It's about (as the title may tell you)reviewers opinion in approving a certain cache. A couple of days ago I've tried to start two new caches in Antalya in Turkey, but I live in Sweden. The reason for this is first of all that there are hardly any caches in this big city, so by creating new one's I was hoping that others in the city would start doing the same. I live in Sweden, as mentioned, but my girlfriend if from Antalya and lives here, so I visit her as often as I can and next year I will move down here (after my school is finished). I posted the two new caches and explained to the reviewer about the situation and also that my girlfriend would work as the local guardian while I'm not here if something would happen. She knows what to do with the maintenance and where they are hidden. Everything seemed alright until the reviewer wrote to personally too her and wanted a picture of her with the cache. She is not herself a geocacher (yet)and was a little bit shocked over this request, and so was I. I don't see what kind of difference this would make in approving the cache. If I was lying about her existence I could might as well just pic a random girl to take a picture with the cache. Still, I told him about that it was inappropriate to ask her about this request in exposing herself just for approving the cache and immediately the reviewer put the cache on "Temporarily Disable Listing" with the reason that (quoting)"Sorry, but I cannot publish a cache under these circumstances".

 

My question is, was the reviewer making the right decision by denying the cache because of this? Or was he wrong?

 

Thankful for answers.

 

/Reefs

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I recommend taking this issue to appeals@geocaching.com rather than airing this issue out here. The paid professionals at Appeals are experienced with moderating things like this.

 

I was looking around on GC home page, but didn't find anything else than this forum for my question about this matter. I will contact them, so thanks for the tip! .

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Your examples sound easier for the Reviewer to deal with because you had a local cacher available to perform maintenance and could be contacted through their geocaching.com profile if a problem arose with the cache.

 

Reefs' girlfriend does not yet have a geocaching account, which could be created easily enough free of charge, and would have led to a quick publishing of the cache.

 

Per the guidelines, "Caches placed during travel will likely not be published unless you are able to provide an acceptable maintenance plan. This plan must allow for a quick response to reported problems, and might include the username of a local cacher who will handle maintenance issues in your absence. Alternatively you might train a local person to maintain the cache. Document your maintenance plan in a Note to Reviewer on your cache listing. This should include contact information of the maintainer."

 

Therefore, if the maintainer is not a geocacher, it is customary for the Reviewer to request contact information.

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The Help Center article, 1.4. Working With the Reviewer: Geocache Disabled or Archived, gives guidance for when things like this happen. The very last paragraph in the article spells out how to initiate an appeal:

 

To appeal a reviewer's decision, send an email through our Help Center. Categorize the email as "Geocache Appeals". Provide the GC code of the geocache, and information to explain why the Appeals team should allow publication of the listing.
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I recommend taking this issue to appeals@geocaching.com rather than airing this issue out here. The paid professionals at Appeals are experienced with moderating things like this.

 

I was looking around on GC home page, but didn't find anything else than this forum for my question about this matter. I will contact them, so thanks for the tip! .

The link to the Help Request is posted in the first section of the Introduction Section of the Guidelines. I got ahead of myself by providing the Appeals e-mail address. The process has changed to completing the short form in the Help Center and selecting Option 8, Appeals. Be sure to include the GC# of the cache.

 

Edit: "Jinx!" on Keystone, except he linked to the same information in a different location.

Edited by Ladybug Kids
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I'm still at work, so can't spend a whole lot of time on this, but as the reviewer for Greece and Turkey I often get vacation cache submissions placed by northern Europeans on vacation in those countries. If they don't volunteer information about who will maintain the cache I have to ask. After doing this for a dozen years I've learned to be leary of of local maintainers who just happen to have a free gmail or hotmail account instead of one from their local ISP. If truly concerned about what I'm being told I will ask for a photo of the local maintainer with the cache to prove that they indeed exist. That is done politely to the e-mail address supplied by the cache hider. That process quickly shows which are fictitious maintainers if the cache hider is back at home and away from the cache and I get no reply.

 

In other cases I've had nice e-mails from Greek or Turkish local maintainers verifying the arrangements, and I'm delighted to publish the cache knowing it meets our maintenance guidelines.

 

In this case the reply came very quickly from the girlfriend's e-mail account, but written by the cache ownen, not the girlfriend. He apparently misunderstood the request and accused me of asking his girlfriend to expose herself in a photo.

 

I replied via another posting to the cache page:

 

Reefs,

Not sure where you get this stuff about me asking your girlfriend to expose herself. I'm not asking for nude pictures of her. What are you thinking?

Anyway, the fact that you responded using "her" e-mail account reinforces the suspicion that it is an account you created. All I need is a picture of her feminine hand holding the cache or pointing to the cache to prove her existence as a "local cache guardian". If that's exposing herself I'm sorry.

If you want to do something silly like painting your fingernails red and pointing to the cache that's up to you. Just be aware that if the cache is published but not maintained your ability to publish future caches while on vacation is greatly diminished.

All the best,

erik

 

Sorry if this seems unreasonable but I've had to archive too many caches to count that were placed on vacation when the promised maintenance did not happen. Those archivals follow many DNFs by disappointed players who wasted their valuable vacation time looking for missing or trashed caches.

 

~erik~

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Your examples sound easier for the Reviewer to deal with because you had a local cacher available to perform maintenance and could be contacted through their geocaching.com profile if a problem arose with the cache.

 

Reefs' girlfriend does not yet have a geocaching account, which could be created easily enough free of charge, and would have led to a quick publishing of the cache.

 

Per the guidelines, "Caches placed during travel will likely not be published unless you are able to provide an acceptable maintenance plan. This plan must allow for a quick response to reported problems, and might include the username of a local cacher who will handle maintenance issues in your absence. Alternatively you might train a local person to maintain the cache. Document your maintenance plan in a Note to Reviewer on your cache listing. This should include contact information of the maintainer."

 

Therefore, if the maintainer is not a geocacher, it is customary for the Reviewer to request contact information.

 

He asked for her name and e-mail as contact information, which I gave to him. Don't see why her photo with a cache would make a difference.

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Now I'm starting to think this photo-thing is a great idea and should be implemented for ALL caches.

 

So many people join geocaching, hide the cache and disappear, leaving the eventual archival to our reviewers. This happens all the time here and they are NOT vacation caches. Getting cache owners to take a photo of themselves holding the cache may slow these people down placing new caches or at least encourage them to maintain their caches better. It's too easy for a newbie to toss down a film canister at the base of a telephone pole, submit for publishing and walk away.

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Tough problem. "Vacation caches" (or in this case: "Far from Home" caches). It's a tough problem to resolve. Maintenance is required. We see far to many examples in the fora: "I hid a cache a thousand miles from home. (Grand Canyon?) The reviewer will not approve it. Can someone rescue the TB, and adopt the cache?"

The resolution is: Who will be maintaining the cache? "My mom will!" Cache is unmaintained, and is archive a few months later. "Mom" never maintained it. (Not to mention the cachers who never do maintenance, but that is a different question.) This is quite common: "My friend I was visiting will maintain the cache." Somehow, it seems that that seldom happens. And the cache wastes away and is archived. Very common.

I have never heard of a reviewer requesting a photo of the maintainer (but I do not hide vacation caches.) But it seems a logical extension to resolving cache issues. Have your girlfriend get her photo taken with the cache. Seems a fairly easy request. What is your problem with that?

Geocaching is evolving to resolve problems. Vacation caches is one such problem.

Recently, reviewers have been asking me to explain how to solve my mysteries. This is rather recent. (Maybe a year or so?) To resolve the problem of cachers hiding mystery caches with no solution. (I would have thought this a minimal problem, but I will work with the reviewers.)

"Far from Home" caches with no (or fictitious) maintenance plan seems a more common problem. Work with your reviewer. Show the reviewer that your 'girlfriend' knows where the cache is, and can maintain it.

Is this a problem?

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Tough problem. "Vacation caches" (or in this case: "Far from Home" caches). It's a tough problem to resolve. Maintenance is required. We see far to many examples in the fora: "I hid a cache a thousand miles from home. (Grand Canyon?) The reviewer will not approve it. Can someone rescue the TB, and adopt the cache?"

The resolution is: Who will be maintaining the cache? "My mom will!" Cache is unmaintained, and is archive a few months later. "Mom" never maintained it. (Not to mention the cachers who never do maintenance, but that is a different question.) This is quite common: "My friend I was visiting will maintain the cache." Somehow, it seems that that seldom happens. And the cache wastes away and is archived. Very common.

I have never heard of a reviewer requesting a photo of the maintainer (but I do not hide vacation caches.) But it seems a logical extension to resolving cache issues. Have your girlfriend get her photo taken with the cache. Seems a fairly easy request. What is your problem with that?

Geocaching is evolving to resolve problems. Vacation caches is one such problem.

Recently, reviewers have been asking me to explain how to solve my mysteries. This is rather recent. (Maybe a year or so?) To resolve the problem of cachers hiding mystery caches with no solution. (I would have thought this a minimal problem, but I will work with the reviewers.)

"Far from Home" caches with no (or fictitious) maintenance plan seems a more common problem. Work with your reviewer. Show the reviewer that your 'girlfriend' knows where the cache is, and can maintain it.

Is this a problem?

 

Understand that this answer the reviewer just posted were just posted on the cache page. Earlier in the reviewers mail to the caretaker he did not mention anything about her hands, just asked for a photo of her and the cache. And if she found it strange and didn't wanna do it I understand. It's her choice. I'm just happy that she will help me maintain the cache's while I'm not there, she knows what it is that needs to be done if something happens and I have left her everything she need for the maintenance (containers, pens, geonotes.

 

But if it's just a hand the reviewer now wants I see no problem with that and I don't think she would do it either. So the problem is hopefully solved now.

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So in the words of the great Paul Harvey..."Now you have, the rest of the story." Seems like a pretty benign, yet useful request by the reviewer.

 

On the surface, maybe. Could this be a cultural issue? If the OP's girlfriend's religious beliefs forbid her from having a photo taken of herself that could be considered "exposing" herself.

Link to comment

Now I'm starting to think this photo-thing is a great idea and should be implemented for ALL caches.

 

So many people join geocaching, hide the cache and disappear, leaving the eventual archival to our reviewers. This happens all the time here and they are NOT vacation caches. Getting cache owners to take a photo of themselves holding the cache may slow these people down placing new caches or at least encourage them to maintain their caches better. It's too easy for a newbie to toss down a film canister at the base of a telephone pole, submit for publishing and walk away.

 

Will pictures of me throwing a pill bottle out the car window at 60 MPH count?

Link to comment

Now I'm starting to think this photo-thing is a great idea and should be implemented for ALL caches.

 

So many people join geocaching, hide the cache and disappear, leaving the eventual archival to our reviewers. This happens all the time here and they are NOT vacation caches. Getting cache owners to take a photo of themselves holding the cache may slow these people down placing new caches or at least encourage them to maintain their caches better. It's too easy for a newbie to toss down a film canister at the base of a telephone pole, submit for publishing and walk away.

 

Will pictures of me throwing a pill bottle out the car window at 60 MPH count?

 

Works for me.

Link to comment

Now I'm starting to think this photo-thing is a great idea and should be implemented for ALL caches.

 

So many people join geocaching, hide the cache and disappear, leaving the eventual archival to our reviewers. This happens all the time here and they are NOT vacation caches. Getting cache owners to take a photo of themselves holding the cache may slow these people down placing new caches or at least encourage them to maintain their caches better. It's too easy for a newbie to toss down a film canister at the base of a telephone pole, submit for publishing and walk away.

 

Will pictures of me throwing a pill bottle out the car window at 60 MPH count?

 

Works for me.

Everyone get ready for a new power trail along the Ohio Turnpike.

Link to comment

Now I'm starting to think this photo-thing is a great idea and should be implemented for ALL caches.

 

So many people join geocaching, hide the cache and disappear, leaving the eventual archival to our reviewers. This happens all the time here and they are NOT vacation caches. Getting cache owners to take a photo of themselves holding the cache may slow these people down placing new caches or at least encourage them to maintain their caches better. It's too easy for a newbie to toss down a film canister at the base of a telephone pole, submit for publishing and walk away.

 

Will pictures of me throwing a pill bottle out the car window at 60 MPH count?

 

Works for me.

Everyone get ready for a new power trail along the Ohio Turnpike.

 

It would be much more convenient if you placed it in Canada, where I live. I promise to maintain it for you. :anibad:

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So in the words of the great Paul Harvey..."Now you have, the rest of the story." Seems like a pretty benign, yet useful request by the reviewer.

 

On the surface, maybe. Could this be a cultural issue? If the OP's girlfriend's religious beliefs forbid her from having a photo taken of herself that could be considered "exposing" herself.

 

It had nothing to do with religion since she's an atheist. She just thought it was an odd request and since she's not e geocacher herself it's understandable. Not everybody want to have their photo taken and send it to some stranger.

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Frankly, I don't think a girlfriend really qualifies as a maintenence plan. By this time, next year, you could have found another love interest. It's not like she's family. Hey, I want to place a cache in Michigan; anyone want to be my girlfriend for a couple of weeks, until I can get this cache published?

 

Now, a mother, that's a committed individual. If she can spend eighteen years of her life maintaining the cache owner, then I'll give her credit for maintaining the cache.

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I think it's a silly request. There are many cachers who live less than a mile, or even directly across the street from their own hides and don't maintain them. If it is not being maintained, then just archive it. Suppose his girlfriend did not exist, what's to stop him from making a local geocaching account for "her" also since he already created an email address? It implies distrust right off the bat, can be easily circumvented, and does not guarantee any better maintenance by having someone nearby. A photo of the cache container for any hide would be better, as most lousy containers are easily identified.

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I think it's a silly request. There are many cachers who live less than a mile, or even directly across the street from their own hides and don't maintain them. If it is not being maintained, then just archive it. Suppose his girlfriend did not exist, what's to stop him from making a local geocaching account for "her" also since he already created an email address? It implies distrust right off the bat, can be easily circumvented, and does not guarantee any better maintenance by having someone nearby. A photo of the cache container for any hide would be better, as most lousy containers are easily identified.

 

What about COs that up and die? Will we eventually have to provide a copy of our wills to prove the caches will be dealt with by the heirs? Will cachers older than a certain age not be able to publish caches? I wonder how many serious COs even have geocaching mentioned in their last will and testament. Been something I've been thinking about.

 

I see many posts about giving back. If, over time, the publishing requirements become so onerous, many will not.

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Tough problem. "Vacation caches" (or in this case: "Far from Home" caches). It's a tough problem to resolve. Maintenance is required. We see far to many examples in the fora: "I hid a cache a thousand miles from home. (Grand Canyon?) The reviewer will not approve it. Can someone rescue the TB, and adopt the cache?"

The resolution is: Who will be maintaining the cache? "My mom will!" Cache is unmaintained, and is archive a few months later. "Mom" never maintained it. (Not to mention the cachers who never do maintenance, but that is a different question.) This is quite common: "My friend I was visiting will maintain the cache." Somehow, it seems that that seldom happens. And the cache wastes away and is archived. Very common.

I have never heard of a reviewer requesting a photo of the maintainer (but I do not hide vacation caches.) But it seems a logical extension to resolving cache issues. Have your girlfriend get her photo taken with the cache. Seems a fairly easy request. What is your problem with that?

Geocaching is evolving to resolve problems. Vacation caches is one such problem.

Recently, reviewers have been asking me to explain how to solve my mysteries. This is rather recent. (Maybe a year or so?) To resolve the problem of cachers hiding mystery caches with no solution. (I would have thought this a minimal problem, but I will work with the reviewers.)

"Far from Home" caches with no (or fictitious) maintenance plan seems a more common problem. Work with your reviewer. Show the reviewer that your 'girlfriend' knows where the cache is, and can maintain it.

Is this a problem?

HD is right! :D

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What about COs that up and die? Will we eventually have to provide a copy of our wills to prove the caches will be dealt with by the heirs? Will cachers older than a certain age not be able to publish caches? I wonder how many serious COs even have geocaching mentioned in their last will and testament. Been something I've been thinking about.

Groundspeak has a process to work with the next of kin regarding caches of the deceased.
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I think it's a silly request. There are many cachers who live less than a mile, or even directly across the street from their own hides and don't maintain them. If it is not being maintained, then just archive it. Suppose his girlfriend did not exist, what's to stop him from making a local geocaching account for "her" also since he already created an email address? It implies distrust right off the bat, can be easily circumvented, and does not guarantee any better maintenance by having someone nearby. A photo of the cache container for any hide would be better, as most lousy containers are easily identified.

 

I wonder how cachers who live in tourist towns feel. If the vacation rule were scrapped, it might be hard for them to hide a geocache in their own town because of all the unmaintained temporary caches.

 

I like the idea of a photo of the cache container submitted for every hide, photographed next to a familiar object for size reference (quarter/cell phone/sunglasses) and in it's hiding spot. The Reviewer could help the CO choose the proper size - fewer micros listed as small and nanos listed as unknown.

Edited by Löne r
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I think it's a silly request. There are many cachers who live less than a mile, or even directly across the street from their own hides and don't maintain them. If it is not being maintained, then just archive it. Suppose his girlfriend did not exist, what's to stop him from making a local geocaching account for "her" also since he already created an email address? It implies distrust right off the bat, can be easily circumvented, and does not guarantee any better maintenance by having someone nearby. A photo of the cache container for any hide would be better, as most lousy containers are easily identified.

 

I wonder how cachers who live in tourist towns feel. If the vacation rule were scrapped, it might be hard for them to hide a geocache in their own town because of all the unmaintained temporary caches.

 

I like the idea of a photo of the cache container submitted for every hide, photographed next to a familiar object for size reference (quarter/cell phone/sunglasses) and in it's hiding spot. The Reviewer could help the CO choose the proper size - fewer micros listed as small and nanos listed as unknown.

 

Something like this would be better, IMHO.

Hello, I am a volunteer reviewer who is taking a look at your new cache hide. It appears that you do not live anywhere nearby. Generally we do not publish such caches, but if you could send a picture of the geocache along with its hiding spot, and briefly describe the general area such as the proximity to nearby trails, we could take it into consideration. If you could have a local established cacher sponsor this and do maintenance, it would help also. For this they would have to be known in the community, or have a few hides already, and we will be happy to possibly make an exception. Thanks!

 

Hello, your new cache container appears to be a metal box with no gasket. These are known to leak and rust. May I suggest using a plastic container with locking tabs? This is requested due to the distance away that you live.

 

Hello, that is quite the photo of your local girlfriend wearing the teeny weeny polka dot bikini, holding the cache container, but the cache container still appears to be substandard. I'm sorry, but we will require an established local sponsor for consideration. Thanks!
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