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back door?


YaYa&PaPa
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Are all back door methods for logging premium caches now closed to non premium members?

I cache with my daughter who is premium but can not get in to log using the site i had just used two weeks ago.

 

When geocaching admin takes you to log a cache it creates a slightly different url than if you click on the log button on a cache page. Specifically the GC code is included in the url - so it might look like http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?wp=GC32Y0Z (a handy cache close to me).

 

If you replace the GC code with the GC code of another cache - say a premium one - then it will allow you to log that way. You have to know the GC code of course and this might change in the future, but once you know the basic url you can log any cache that way.

 

The whole logging of PM caches seems to be being made a lot harder from what I can see.

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You could purchase a premium member account..just a thought if you want to do PM caches.

What about my friend, M0M0f5? Should she buy premium memberships for PunkinHead96, Shemademedoit, J0nnyr0tten, b gethan, and squeedink just to be able to log their finds too?

Yes. Not required, of course, but that would be very generous of her.

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I feel that PMO caches can be very elitist. I understand the thought process behind them and some of the reasons CO make them PMO. I just disagree with those reasons and see no problem with basic members logging them when they are found, either by accident or in a group with a PM. I don't know of any CO that would dispute someone logging a find on a puzzle cache that they stumbled across. And from my understand of the Guidlines, Help Center, and Knowledge Books, as long as there is ink on paper, the cache is found, doesn't matter what the search process looked like.

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I feel that PMO caches can be very elitist. I understand the thought process behind them and some of the reasons CO make them PMO. I just disagree with those reasons and see no problem with basic members logging them when they are found, either by accident or in a group with a PM. I don't know of any CO that would dispute someone logging a find on a puzzle cache that they stumbled across. And from my understand of the Guidlines, Help Center, and Knowledge Books, as long as there is ink on paper, the cache is found, doesn't matter what the search process looked like.

 

In the vast majority of cases (that I have seen or read about), CO's make caches PMO for reasons unrelated to elitism.

Most of the time, it's to protect the cache from uncommitted or casual cachers, who might have less of a regard for other people's efforts and stuff.

 

Yes, it harms honest, well-intentioned basic members. But think of it like a downtown restaurant that puts a sign in the window saying "Restroom for Customers Only". I've gone into such places and asked to use the restroom, and usually they point me back to it when they see that I don't appear like someone who will cavalierly mess up their bathroom. Profiling? You bet!

 

The restaurant owner wants to make sure that people who have a potential to harm their business (by misusing the restroom) have made at least a minimal investment in their business (by eating there).

 

Is it fair? I guess that depends on the local history of cache-abuse and which side of the cache's webpage you're standing on.

 

Is putting a lock on your house's front door elitist? I would never steal from you, so why do you need one?

 

Is only handing out your cell phone number to friends elitist? I would never phone you inappropriately, so why not post it?

 

I've never read or heard of a CO tossing someone's FOUND log because they were 'only' a basic member. I think pretty much all of the non-jerks among us feel that if you found it, you should be able to log it. I've never read of anyone calling for non-PMO access to cache pages to be shut down.

 

So before you claim 'elitism', walk a mile in someone else's restroom.

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You could purchase a premium member account..just a thought if you want to do PM caches.

 

What about my friend, M0M0f5? Should she buy premium memberships for PunkinHead96, Shemademedoit, J0nnyr0tten, b gethan, and squeedink just to be able to log their finds too?

Absolutely not. PunkinHead96, Shemademedoit, J0nnyr0tten, b gethan, and squeedink should log their own finds, either using the backdoor or by saving their allowance and buying their own premium memberships.

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I've never read or heard of a CO tossing someone's FOUND log because they were 'only' a basic member.

There was a case on here fairly recently - a cache in the French alps I think. All sorts of hassle iirc.

 

I think pretty much all of the non-jerks among us feel that if you found it, you should be able to log it. I've never read of anyone calling for non-PMO access to cache pages to be shut down.

There is no access to cache pages for PMO caches of course. It is, however, harder - significantly so imo - to log such caches if you happen to have found them. Which is a shame.

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I've never read or heard of a CO tossing someone's FOUND log because they were 'only' a basic member.

There was a case on here fairly recently - a cache in the French alps I think. All sorts of hassle iirc.

 

I think pretty much all of the non-jerks among us feel that if you found it, you should be able to log it. I've never read of anyone calling for non-PMO access to cache pages to be shut down.

There is no access to cache pages for PMO caches of course. It is, however, harder - significantly so imo - to log such caches if you happen to have found them. Which is a shame.

 

Can you not still go directly to a cache page by typing the GC code into the URL in the address box of a non-PMO cache page?

 

Or using "www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?wp=<GC CODE HERE>"

 

Or here: http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

 

Or put it right into the main search page?

 

I think the PMO status only prevents it from appearing on maps and in searches. If you know the code, you've got access to it.

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Can you not still go directly to a cache page by typing the GC code into the URL in the address box of a non-PMO cache page?

 

Or using "www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?wp=<GC CODE HERE>"

 

Or here: http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

 

Or put it right into the main search page?

 

I think the PMO status only prevents it from appearing on maps and in searches. If you know the code, you've got access to it.

 

You can get to the *log* page using the first two Ors but not the third one - if by that you mean the Log a cache link from the Play drop down menu. Oddly you'd think that link would be open as you're putting a GC code into the text box in the "log a cache" section - but it comes up with the standard You can't access this splash page. Not awfully clever design really - and you'd think that that method should be left open rather than requiring people to go around the houses and use vaguely subversive feeling methods to log a find online. In fact, bloody awful design - the "log a cache" box simply takes you to the cache description - it's got nothing to do with logging the cache at all - you have to click another button to do that as well...

 

The url method is tricky as it requires knowledge of the ability to stick a GC number in. A standard url, picked from a list and then the log it button inserts a numerical reference number which doesn't appear to have any direct relation to the GC code. It also works if you put the GC code in but you wouldn't necessarily know that.

 

They will appear in search lists online. But, again, you get no further and can't log from those lists. You used to be able to log from the map which was very convenient and provided a reasonably official way to do it without having to go around those houses again and be all subversive. But that got removed when all PMO caches were taken off the maps.

 

Fwiw when you said "cache page" originally I thought you meant the page with all the info about the cache on it - the coords, the hints, the description, the logs etc... Regular members never get to see any of that for PMO caches, although we can still access our own logs to edit them if needed. I've no problem with that.

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Can you not still go directly to a cache page by typing the GC code into the URL in the address box of a non-PMO cache page?

 

Or using "www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?wp=<GC CODE HERE>"

 

Or here: http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

 

Or put it right into the main search page?

 

I think the PMO status only prevents it from appearing on maps and in searches. If you know the code, you've got access to it.

 

You can get to the *log* page using the first two Ors but not the third one - if by that you mean the Log a cache link from the Play drop down menu. Oddly you'd think that link would be open as you're putting a GC code into the text box in the "log a cache" section - but it comes up with the standard You can't access this splash page. Not awfully clever design really - and you'd think that that method should be left open rather than requiring people to go around the houses and use vaguely subversive feeling methods to log a find online. In fact, bloody awful design - the "log a cache" box simply takes you to the cache description - it's got nothing to do with logging the cache at all - you have to click another button to do that as well...

 

The url method is tricky as it requires knowledge of the ability to stick a GC number in. A standard url, picked from a list and then the log it button inserts a numerical reference number which doesn't appear to have any direct relation to the GC code. It also works if you put the GC code in but you wouldn't necessarily know that.

 

They will appear in search lists online. But, again, you get no further and can't log from those lists. You used to be able to log from the map which was very convenient and provided a reasonably official way to do it without having to go around those houses again and be all subversive. But that got removed when all PMO caches were taken off the maps.

 

Fwiw when you said "cache page" originally I thought you meant the page with all the info about the cache on it - the coords, the hints, the description, the logs etc... Regular members never get to see any of that for PMO caches, although we can still access our own logs to edit them if needed. I've no problem with that.

 

All interesting. I don't have a second basic member SP account so I actually have no first-hand knowledge of what Basic Members can and can't do - that's why I was asking about those methods I keep reading about (and, of course, my Platinum status gives me access to EVERYTHING including the website sourcecode....).

 

Bottom line is, if you're a Basic member and want to log my PMO cache if I had one and you found it, there are ways, and after you've done one, you should keep a shortcut or notes.

 

I dislike the whole PMO concept, but see the need for it. I dislike paying taxes, too.

 

Except for the elitist aspect, of course; that's cool.

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All interesting. I don't have a second basic member SP account so I actually have no first-hand knowledge of what Basic Members can and can't do - that's why I was asking about those methods I keep reading about (and, of course, my Platinum status gives me access to EVERYTHING including the website sourcecode....).

 

Bottom line is, if you're a Basic member and want to log my PMO cache if I had one and you found it, there are ways, and after you've done one, you should keep a shortcut or notes.

 

I dislike the whole PMO concept, but see the need for it. I dislike paying taxes, too.

 

Except for the elitist aspect, of course; that's cool.

Naturally :-)

 

The only problem is that they keep on changing the allowable ways and, perhaps, making it harder. I wonder if they'll end up closing all the ways in in the end - but, you know, it doesn't worry me that much. Maybe I just need to start sticking "tftc" on pmo caches on the odd occasion that I find them...

 

Now, if you can access the database structure of the site we're in business ;-)

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How so?

Until a few weeks ago it was possible to access the log page through the maps here. These no longer show PMO caches - which is fine by me btw as it was a pain to keep on clicking on them by mistake. But it made logging PMO caches a *lot* easier - now, as I detail above, it seems you have to go round the houses and seem to be breaking in to actually be able to complete an online pmo log.

 

Perhaps that doesn't qualify as "keep on" although I understand that the "copy the url" method has been through various stages of flux as well.

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You could purchase a premium member account..just a thought if you want to do PM caches.

 

What about my friend, M0M0f5? Should she buy premium memberships for PunkinHead96, Shemademedoit, J0nnyr0tten, b gethan, and squeedink just to be able to log their finds too?

 

What would be wrong about that? They also benefit from this activity.

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Can you not still go directly to a cache page by typing the GC code into the URL in the address box of a non-PMO cache page?

 

Or using "www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?wp=<GC CODE HERE>"

 

Or here: http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

 

Or put it right into the main search page?

 

I think the PMO status only prevents it from appearing on maps and in searches. If you know the code, you've got access to it.

 

You can get to the *log* page using the first two Ors but not the third one - if by that you mean the Log a cache link from the Play drop down menu. Oddly you'd think that link would be open as you're putting a GC code into the text box in the "log a cache" section - but it comes up with the standard You can't access this splash page. Not awfully clever design really - and you'd think that that method should be left open rather than requiring people to go around the houses and use vaguely subversive feeling methods to log a find online. In fact, bloody awful design - the "log a cache" box simply takes you to the cache description - it's got nothing to do with logging the cache at all - you have to click another button to do that as well...

 

The url method is tricky as it requires knowledge of the ability to stick a GC number in. A standard url, picked from a list and then the log it button inserts a numerical reference number which doesn't appear to have any direct relation to the GC code. It also works if you put the GC code in but you wouldn't necessarily know that.

 

They will appear in search lists online. But, again, you get no further and can't log from those lists. You used to be able to log from the map which was very convenient and provided a reasonably official way to do it without having to go around those houses again and be all subversive. But that got removed when all PMO caches were taken off the maps.

 

Fwiw when you said "cache page" originally I thought you meant the page with all the info about the cache on it - the coords, the hints, the description, the logs etc... Regular members never get to see any of that for PMO caches, although we can still access our own logs to edit them if needed. I've no problem with that.

 

All interesting. I don't have a second basic member SP account so I actually have no first-hand knowledge of what Basic Members can and can't do - that's why I was asking about those methods I keep reading about (and, of course, my Platinum status gives me access to EVERYTHING including the website sourcecode....).

 

Bottom line is, if you're a Basic member and want to log my PMO cache if I had one and you found it, there are ways, and after you've done one, you should keep a shortcut or notes.

 

I dislike the whole PMO concept, but see the need for it. I dislike paying taxes, too.

 

Except for the elitist aspect, of course; that's cool.

I dislike the whole regular/non-paying member concept, but see the need for it. I dislike paying taxes too, but I do. If I pay for a PM and one of the perks that comes along with my PAID membership is I get to make my caches PMO, then that's what I expect my caches to be....PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY! The fact that non-paying members are allowed to log my paying-member only caches, ummmm, yea, that sorta ticks me off.... A LOT!! I don't like sneaking around. It's sorta like me paying for a 1st class plane ticket and along with that I get all the perks.....the filet mignon dinner, the pillow and slippers, the exotic flower bouquet in the bathroom. You don't pay for 1st class, you choose coach, but you sneak past the curtain and take a seat in 1st class cuz you wanna see what it's like. Then,next thing I know, you wanna bite of my filet and you wanna snooze on my pillow,wear my comfy slippers and sniff the flowers in the john I paid for! That's not right! You should get what you paid for!

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If I pay for a PM and one of the perks that comes along with my PAID membership is I get to make my caches PMO, then that's what I expect my caches to be....PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY! The fact that non-paying members are allowed to log my paying-member only caches, ummmm, yea, that sorta ticks me off.... A LOT!! I don't like sneaking around. It's sorta like me paying for a 1st class plane ticket and along with that I get all the perks.... [...]You should get what you paid for!

So what exactly makes a PMO cache magically a 1st class cache?

 

It's your decision to pay the fee to get some comfort with PQ and publish mails etc. It's your decision to place a cache. Both decisions have nothing to do with each other, as long as you for yourself don't decide to only place delightful fine & quality "premium" caches from now on - which is NO requirement for PMs, yet...

 

One reason stated by cache owners for making a cache PMO is to have a log about who is reading the cache page - now tell me, who's sneaky? BTW, this is inaccurate anyhow, since accessing the cache info by PQ database (which I do almost all of the time) there is no log at all.

 

So for me, the whole concept of PMO caches just is a total misleading thought.

 

My personal experience: I did one PMO cache near my home as Basic Member, it was just a nano behind a bench. Not impressing. Now I'm PM and the other PMO cache near home still is untouched by me since it's a T5 needing climbing equipment. Would be the same with a non-PMO cache.

 

I pay the fee for other reasons: PQ, publish mails, full remote access to the database. Thats a valid advantage for supporting Groundspeak for maintaining the largest cache database of the world. To protect a non existing "better world" from non-paying fellow cachers is not.

 

BTW, I pay the european fee (30 EUR), which is significant higher in Euro than in US$, just to have the same number in front of the currency symbol. So, are european PM better than US-based ones? Should there be an EU-exclusive PMO-cache type to seperate from those low-paying US members? Well, if following your argumentation, there should...

 

EDIT: just checked, 30 EUR are ~40 US$, so I pay 1/3 more than a US cacher. If that doesn't make me elitist, I don't know what... ;)

Edited by BenOw
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I really like that link (geocachingadmin.com), but I cannot get the Convert and Map piece to work for me at all. I've tried a number of different formats, and I get nothing. If I put in numbers in the latitude/longitude section, I'll get something, but it's weird - even when I put the numbers in the box ((like 37 23.516 -122 02.625, but it's flexible)), I get nothing. Anyway, no huge deal, I still like the link. I'd just like to know what I'm doing wrong.

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Not being a basic member any more, I can't test this out, but at one time going to the map would show PMO caches. They did not show up however, until you zoomed out on the map view. Then you could click on the cache icon and get a box with name, code, etc and the option to log. Maybe this feature has been shut down now. Not sure, but the secret previously was to zoom out the map view for them to show.

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You could purchase a premium member account..just a thought if you want to do PM caches.

 

What about my friend, M0M0f5? Should she buy premium memberships for PunkinHead96, Shemademedoit, J0nnyr0tten, b gethan, and squeedink just to be able to log their finds too?

Absolutely not. PunkinHead96, Shemademedoit, J0nnyr0tten, b gethan, and squeedink should log their own finds, either using the backdoor or by saving their allowance and buying their own premium memberships.

 

Couldn't it be that these accounts belong to children, some of them being relatively young. In my area some parents have accounts already for babies and also the kids with 6 years do not write their own logs, but are very proud of having their account.

 

It would be absolutely crazy to require a family with 2 parents and 5 children to pay for 7 PM accounts or to force the children to cache without their own account.

 

 

Cezanne

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Not being a basic member any more, I can't test this out, but at one time going to the map would show PMO caches. They did not show up however, until you zoomed out on the map view. Then you could click on the cache icon and get a box with name, code, etc and the option to log. Maybe this feature has been shut down now. Not sure, but the secret previously was to zoom out the map view for them to show.

That feature has been shut down fairly recently - within the last 3 months I think probably.

 

Either that or it's a bug and there's an intention to give us back that functionality, although I'm not sure this is the case.

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