Challenge doubles

[+jellis]

We recently found and signed some challenges. Two by the same CO, had requirements about Souvenirs. He says we can't duplicate Souvenirs on the two Challenges. Meaning if you have only 40 Souvenirs totally and one asks for 40 and the other 30 you must have 70 total to qualify. He says Groundspeak says he can do it. Is this true?

[+Dame Deco]

If it's two separate caches, I'd have to say no, he can't do that. Perhaps you should contact the reviewer first? Then Groundspeak?

[Pup Patrol]

We recently found and signed some challenges. Two by the same CO, had requirements about Souvenirs. He says we can't duplicate Souvenirs on the two Challenges. Meaning if you have only 40 Souvenirs totally and one asks for 40 and the other 30 you must have 70 total to qualify. He says Groundspeak says he can do it. Is this true?

 

Assuming that the cache pages were not edited post-publication, I would guess that the reviewer saw no problems. I guess that's what the cache owner meant by "Groundspeak says he can do it".

 

Here are the additional guidelines for Challenge caches:

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206

 

 

B.

[+CanadianRockies]

We recently found and signed some challenges. Two by the same CO, had requirements about Souvenirs. He says we can't duplicate Souvenirs on the two Challenges. Meaning if you have only 40 Souvenirs totally and one asks for 40 and the other 30 you must have 70 total to qualify. He says Groundspeak says he can do it. Is this true?

I've seen other challenges that don't allow qualifying caches from one challenge to be used in another challenge. A quick review of the Groundspeak challenge guidelines doesn't indicate anything that would prohibit such a practice.

 

If such a practice is against the guidelines, then the cache owner easily could replace one of the challenges with a new challenge that requires 70 souvenirs instead of 30 or 40. Not all challenge caches are easy.

[+Isonzo Karst]

11. If a challenge geocache is submitted within an area where a similar challenge geocache already exists, then it will need to have a unique list of qualifying criteria (geocaches, waymarks, etc.)

 

The above statement in the challenge caches article may be relevant.

[+Mudfrog]

I've seen other challenge caches placed similarly by the same cache owner. He has three now, the first requiring a person to find 7 different cache types in a day. The 2nd, to find 2 sets of 7 cache types, and the 3rd to find 3 sets of 7 cache types. No caches can be used twice on any of these.

 

Kinda tough, but it's all good. If you want em, then you have to work to get them. It's challenging, go figure. I make the choice here,, nobody is twisting my arm to go for these caches. I just don't understand why so many people cry foul when they come across a cache that's too hard for them.

[+fuzziebear3]

I would think that each challenge has to stand alone, and that you need to meet the requirements for each challenge, but there is no interlink between them -- you can use your same 40 souvenirs on each one of them.

[+lamoracke]

I do not know what the CO talked specifically about with his reviewer, but I totally disagree with the idea that they must have separate qualifications. I believe each challenge should stand on its own. I mean, if I found a 400 day streak challenge, that would not prevent me from using those 400 days on a 200 day streak challenge by the same CO! There are 4 calendar challenges in the Washington State area, that means I would have to have at least 4 on each day (well, actually 5 since one requires 2 on each day) because I could not use finds on the others? I do not understand that interpretation of the rule they used on that challenge in any way shape, fashion or form. There is a challenge in Washington for this.

 

5 states/provinces

10 states/provinces...etc etc up to

60 states/provinces

 

Those all act independently. Same CO too. Published around the same time.

 

The idea that the 30 souvenir challenge can't use the same ones as the 40 seems very wrong to me.

 

The point of this topic is, if the CO wanted a 30 souvenir one and a 70 souvenir one, that is fine...but it was the implication that the reviewers think that the souvenirs would have to be used separately so a 30 and 40 could not have been used independently, if I am gathering the facts in my head correctly.

Edited August 21, 2013 by lamoracke

[+Harry Dolphin]

There is a similar/dissimilar series not too far off. Count the D/T stars on caches you have found on one day. Three caches: Over 200. Over 100. Over 50. You cannot use the same set of finds on more than one challenge. My best day was 187 stars, (You try caching with my brother!) I can use that for the 100-Star cache. But since I've used it there, I cannot use it for the 50-Star challenge. Seems fair to me. I have another day with over 50-stars. (You try caching with my brother!!) Oddly, both days were a few hundred miles off. Doubt I'll ever qualify for the 200-Star Challenge...

Yeah. Nearby sets of challenges that disqualify using the same caches does seem to be permitted.

[+wimseyguy]

I think it boils down to the definition of the word 'unique' as used in the guidelines.

Does unique mean that each individual item within the list needs to be on only one list?

Or would 1,2,3,4,5 and 1,2,5,7,8 be unique lists as they are not made up of the same items?

[+Mudfrog]

The idea that the 30 souvenir challenge can't use the same ones as the 40 seems very wrong to me.

 

The cache owner set it up to be tough and not everyone will want or be able to complete them all. The three challenge caches i mentioned above are by the same cache owner who stipulates that a cache used for one challenge can't be used on either of his other two. I can't see myself ever getting all three but at the same time, i see nothing wrong with his stipulations.

 

I just can't imagine thinking that cache owners should only place caches that i'm qualified to find.

[+Beach_hut]

I've seen resuscitator challenge caches, where to qualify you have to have found a cache that's not been found in a year. It does state in the small print that you can't use the same qualifying cache for two resuscitator challenges. Although the five or six I've seen have different COs and are fairly geographically spread.

[+Don_J]

11. If a challenge geocache is submitted within an area where a similar challenge geocache already exists, then it will need to have a unique list of qualifying criteria (geocaches, waymarks, etc.)

 

The above statement in the challenge caches article may be relevant.

 

Let's read this very carefully. It says "unique list of qualifying criteria", not, "unique list of qualifying data". What this means is if there is a local challenge cache that asks me to have 30 souvenirs in my profile, I can't create a second challenge that asks for 40 because I am asking for the same criteria as the existing challenge. Since the CO should not be able to create similar challenges, the question of if he is allowed to ask for unique data to complete them should never even come up.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Don_J

[+Mudfrog]

11. If a challenge geocache is submitted within an area where a similar challenge geocache already exists, then it will need to have a unique list of qualifying criteria (geocaches, waymarks, etc.)

 

The above statement in the challenge caches article may be relevant.

 

Let's read this very carefully. It says "unique list of qualifying criteria", not, "unique list of qualifying data". What this means is if there is a local challenge cache that asks me to have 30 souvenirs in my profile, I can't create a second challenge that asks for 40 because I am asking for the same criteria as the existing challenge. Since the CO should not be able to create similar challenges, the question of if he is allowed to ask for unique data to complete them should never even come up.

 

This is probably strecthing it a bit, just throwing out an idea here, but i wonder if that guideline was placed to keep local cache owners from copying each other. Maybe to help keep drama down in the neighborhood?. A cacher placing 2 or more similar caches himself would not cause this drama.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Mudfrog

[AZcachemeister]

We recently found and signed some challenges. Two by the same CO, had requirements about Souvenirs. He says we can't duplicate Souvenirs on the two Challenges. Meaning if you have only 40 Souvenirs totally and one asks for 40 and the other 30 you must have 70 total to qualify. He says Groundspeak says he can do it. Is this true?

 

Seems like a weak design to me.

 

If you want to make challenges for varying levels of souvies, just make them 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, etc.

[+lamoracke]

We recently found and signed some challenges. Two by the same CO, had requirements about Souvenirs. He says we can't duplicate Souvenirs on the two Challenges. Meaning if you have only 40 Souvenirs totally and one asks for 40 and the other 30 you must have 70 total to qualify. He says Groundspeak says he can do it. Is this true?

 

Seems like a weak design to me.

 

If you want to make challenges for varying levels of souvies, just make them 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, etc.

 

I think that is the point, the CO wanted to make it 30, 40, but was apparently told by a reviewer to not be able to use the same souvenirs on a challenge so 30 and 40 effectively became 30 and 70, or 40 and 70, depending how you look at it.